WHY is the U.S. BUICK worth saving?

Someone enlighten me,

I cant understand why this brand is so near and dear to GM? I seriously thing Oldsmobile always had more going for it then Buick. Also, add to it that the Pontiac G6 or Impala alone outsell most if not all Buick products.....:think:

Yes, their new (possible) Lacross is a very pretty car, but how is Buick any more important to the US then Pontiac? or GMC?

Buick offers a stripped down version of a similar cadillac DTS
A version of the Impala which is less exciting then an Impala,
And an SUV that has 4 other brothers and sisters each costing less and offering similar equipment with larger dealer support.

I can not remember the last person I met who bought a Buick or would? Does GM have a fantasy that one day Americans will once again embrace the large American chromed sedan with fender vents much as the China market has? I just dont see it happening here!

:mad: I feel like this is beating a dead horse by denying and keeping lame brands in production to avoid the shut down cost. I feel like in another 5 years it will be "we need to close down Buick, the revival just isnt working" much as is coming out of Saturn and Hummer currently. This has pi$$ed me off for some time now and this is coming form a Pontiac owner. I have always had a GM product and favor Chevrolet because their size compared to BPG, but If my GTO were offered in a Chevy version I would have bought it for brand reasons just to be away from Pontiac and have the extra dealer support of Chevy rather Pontiac, but it wasnt.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few; China.

I think Buick fits in a slimmed down GM lineup in a logical sense.

Chevy = 'everyman car and trucks'
Buick = Mid-lux
Cadillac = Full lux.

I don't think Pontiac can fill the mid-lux spot, as it's regarded as the 'performance division'... but it has the issue of overlapping with Chevy in that regard, and Chevy beating it at it's own game anymore.

WHY does everyone here think taking a hatchet to GM is going to solve all kinds of problems? They aren't going to make more money by selling fewer vehicles. Lots of the employees associated with the product are cross functional...it's not like you can cut 'just the Buick people', because the same people would still be working on the shared platforms that show up in other divisions. All you'd end up doing is cutting product, and still maintaining a bunch of the cost.

Why is Buick still around?

1. It has the potential to make money especially as the China market grows.
2. Shutting it down would cost even more money.

In other words, they're better off keeping it than canning it. Simple as that.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few; China.

I don't think "the few" and "China" fit together in the same sentence. Perhaps someone knows what the recent sales are for China and what future projections are. Even with the current global economic conditions, I'd imagine it'll prove significant in the long run.

I cant understand why this brand is so near and dear to GM? I seriously thing Oldsmobile always had more going for it then Buick. Also, add to it that the Pontiac G6 or Impala alone outsell most if not all Buick products.....:think:

One reason the brand is near and dear to GM is it's the very foundation of GM.

The G6 and Impala weigh heavily toward low profit fleet sales. With the rental companies curtailing their purchases in January, their sales fell significantly. G6 was down 82% - outsold by Lucerne.

The Vibe was Pontiac's best selling car in January.

I don't think "the few" and "China" fit together in the same sentence. Perhaps someone knows what the recent sales are for China and what future projections are. Even with the current global economic conditions, I'd imagine it'll prove significant in the long run.

I think he meant that China were "the many." Sales were down in general in China last year with Buick hit fairly hard

China: Consumers Snubbed Buick Brand in 2008

SHANGHAI, China — General Motors has posted its first year-on-year sales decline for its passenger vehicles in China, and analysts are saying the company's new models — especially those badged as Buicks — have failed to appeal to Chinese consumers.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=138987

WHY does everyone here think taking a hatchet to GM is going to solve all kinds of problems?

Why is Buick still around?

1. It has the potential to make money especially as the China market grows.
2. Shutting it down would cost even more money.

In other words, they're better off keeping it than canning it. Simple as that.

I see it to a point, but what is the sense of offering overlaping vehicles and subpar marketing to try to get a few extra sales? GM Can not afford to sell anything but the best pickup's, the best SUV's, the best sedans, and the best luxuary and performance cars.

I probably wouldnt buy a GMC unless either really didnt like what the Chevy version looked like or the GMC offered something that Chevy didnt (Denali model, or a nice SLT Yukon)

Same goes for Buick, I like many can see the Impala under it and with ALL the automotive choices on the market, and we really do have alot of options, the "lifestyle game" of your "older so you graduate to this model" or your "performance oriented" so you go to that brand is old and no longer applicable to the modern GM.

Their are plenty of cars offered under the grouping of Ford or GM that are not offered in America. Besides, the american Buick is nothing like the China Buick.

We just had this thread, but simply put, Buick has some models in the pipeline and GM doesn't want to pull the trigger yet.

In the long run, I don't predict much of a future for the "Buick/GMC/Pontiac" channel -- it's duplicative and unneeded for an appropriately sized General Motors.

How well does Buick sell in places outside of the U.S. or China? How about Canada, Europe or Mexico/South America?

I don't understand the overlap either. I see that GM would be doing good to make 1 ~ 3 cars off of the same platform and make it/them the very best in the market rather than 4 ~ 6 versions of the same car that are mediocre.

Lastly, I don't understand the car game. I simply hope that GM knows their business better than us. Until we understand GM's purpose and plan for their brands I will continue to scratch my head.

Pontiac is very broken. I will argue there is more performance at Chevy than Pontiac.

Corvette, Camaro, Cobalt SS (possibly but not really anymore Impala SS).

vs.

G8 and Solstice

G6 is a direct competitor to Malibu.
G5 is a Cobalt.
G3 is an Aveo.
G8 could be the next Impala.
Solstice might die with too few sales, or need to share a platform with another vehicle. It could also be absorbed in to Chevy.

Pontiac is really about 2 vehicles, and those two fit into Chevy. No one I know of thinks better of Pontiac than Chevy. Pontiac sells many more fleet vehicles. Lastly, why should GM advertise a car like the G6 and Malibu twice? Every commercial for a G6 isn't a commercial for the Malibu, but they are going after the same target audience b/c there is no more performance on a G6. Sorry, it just doesn't exist. And, the performance market is a lot smaller than people on this board want to think it is.





Buick doesn't have a great line up right now, but neither does Pontiac. Margins are higher on Buicks. Buicks new vehicles are going to be much nicer than Chevy, the way GMC's are nicer than Chevy. This makes a significant marketing position when compared to Chevy. Pontiac's performance just isn't there as a differentiation. A G6 GXP is pretty much the same as a Malibu with the 3.6L engine, and there are 0 products right now that are thought of being a replacement that would make a difference between the two. The G6 is a fleet monster, which is almost 0 profit.


Buick has a huge following in China. Keeping this brand alive will help it in China (which sold more vehicles last month than the US did). If GM can use some of the same cars in China and the US, it will be a great victory for them. They will have nice vehicles in both markets that should compete well.


Also, I am now a Buick buyer. I bought a 2009 Enclave CXL. I am very compelled by the new LaCrosse and want to see the new Regal. Pontiac has none of this coming. They have a G8, G8 GT, G8 GXP, and maybe a Coupe. I won't drive a Solstice b/c of the room (or lack there of, especially trunk). The G6, well, I can't stand the way it looks from the outside. I am not a fan of it. Many people aren't. That leaves me with a Chevy, or for a little bit more, a nicer Buick. Malibu vs Regal for a bit more is a good decision for potential buyers to be making. Malibu vs G6 makes GM the same amount of money for twice the marketing.

Besides, the american Buick is nothing like the China Buick.

This won't be true in the near future. New LaCrosse will be sold in both the U.S. and China, looks like the Regal will soon be sold in the U.S., Enclave is now on sale in China. Some of the Buicks in China are a little different - Daewoo based Excelle and Holden based Park Avenue, but pretty much every U.S. Buick from here on out will likely have a future in China, too.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few; China.or the "one" (Pontiac). :D

No body is going to buy a $35,000 FWD Chevy and a $35,000 Cadillac should be FWD. That is were Buick comes in. They can sell a FWD car that is a little pricier than a Toyota or Honda.

How well does Buick sell in places outside of the U.S. or China? How about Canada, Europe or Mexico/South America?

bump... anyone know?

bump... anyone know?

Buick is available in the US, Canada, Israel and China. I might have missed a few other countries, but that is what I could see from GM's corporate site.

Pontiac is available in the US, Canada, and Mexico.

I see it to a point, but what is the sense of offering overlaping vehicles and subpar marketing to try to get a few extra sales? GM Can not afford to sell anything but the best pickup's, the best SUV's, the best sedans, and the best luxuary and performance cars.


I probably wouldnt buy a GMC unless either really didnt like what the Chevy version looked like or the GMC offered something that Chevy didnt (Denali model, or a nice SLT Yukon)

Same goes for Buick, I like many can see the Impala under it and with ALL the automotive choices on the market, and we really do have alot of options, the "lifestyle game" of your "older so you graduate to this model" or your "performance oriented" so you go to that brand is old and no longer applicable to the modern GM.

Their are plenty of cars offered under the grouping of Ford or GM that are not offered in America. Besides, the american Buick is nothing like the China Buick.

Overall I agree with most of your post. However, first they need to have the very best of all those vehicle types. Cutting Buick wont magically make their other offerings better. In the mean time, the money that comes from selling a Buick is just as green as the money that comes from selling a Chevy.

I see what you mean about not getting a GMC over a Chevy; it doesn't add capability or utility, but who doesn't like a nicer interior and upgraded trim, wheels, and other odds and ends? I'm not saying it's worth the extra money to everyone (you, for example), but it's a great way for GM to provide a nicer and more posh and polished offering of a similar product, with very little added development cost.

My dad has an Envoy, and I think it's a much nicer looking vehicle inside and outside than the Trailblazer. Yeah, he could have a vehicle that does everything just as well and saved money by going with a TB, but hey, the Envoy is nicer, and that allows GM to make more money on that sale.

That being said, I have no real idea how much it costs to 'run' GMC. I would THINK that the cost would be minimal (not much engineering other than maybe some ride characteristic stuff), and that they'd only have to worry about marketing and advertising. I have no real info to base that on though.

since there's talk about GMC in here, I've always wondered why they never got a version of the Avalanche... :think:

since there's talk about GMC in here, I've always wondered why they never got a version of the Avalanche... :think:

My guess is because Cadillac got the Escalade EXT, which is basically the same thing.

I don't think "the few" and "China" fit together in the same sentence. Perhaps someone knows what the recent sales are for China and what future projections are. Even with the current global economic conditions, I'd imagine it'll prove significant in the long run.

You're correct. But read it backward. We are the few and they (China) are the many.

What else would the blue hairs drive?

I think he meant that China were "the many." Sales were down in general in China last year with Buick hit fairly hard


You're correct. But read it backward. We are the few and they (China) are the many.

:o Whoops. :lol:

Buick is a dead duck as far as I can foresee. If GM couldn't get people interested in Pontiac and Saturn, they've got a snowflake's chance in hell of resurrecting Buick (even with beautiful products in its portfolio).

GM could turn Buick into an export only brand. Sorta like how Pontiac is heading right now.

I still believe that GM's best chance of survival is with Chev, Caddy and GMC brands. Market share doesn't count anymore. It's profitability that's paramount right now.

I think Buick fits in a slimmed down GM lineup in a logical sense.

Chevy = 'everyman car and trucks'
Buick = Mid-lux
Cadillac = Full lux.


I think this post pretty much sums it up.

I'm starting to see how Pontiac can stick around as the performance "niche" division along side Chevrolets in the showrooms. I'm not even against the platform sharing that will occur. I can see the G8, the G6 and the Soltice sticking around. The G6 would certainly need some added balls though in order to fit the niche, like the turbo 6 that GM has been using in the Saab 9-3s. A nice coupe like the Soltice GXP, a Malibu based small sized G6 with the turbo 6 and the G8 with the RWD V8 slice sounds like a nice stable to work with. The Vibe should just be brought over into the Chevrolet fold given its high MPG image. Of course the Pontiacs should also get distinctive interiors to go along with the other bits. I don't see much to be gained by simply throwing a turbo on the car, but the inside just looks like a Cobalt or something. If that's the route they want to go, then just keep the SS line and toss Pontiac to the side.

since there's talk about GMC in here, I've always wondered why they never got a version of the Avalanche... :think:

GMC got the Envoy XUV instead.

since there's talk about GMC in here, I've always wondered why they never got a version of the Avalanche... :think:

2002 was around when they divided, and if you remember that is largely when the Denali models really hit it off. My guess is they wanted to make Chevy more working, and GMC more luxuary. (opposite of what it probably once was)

Buick is a dead duck as far as I can foresee. If GM couldn't get people interested in Pontiac and Saturn, they've got a snowflake's chance in hell of resurrecting Buick (even with beautiful products in its portfolio).

I still believe that GM's best chance of survival is with Chev, Caddy and GMC brands. Market share doesn't count anymore. It's profitability that's paramount right now.

I agree, I feel like dumping money into Buick is like putting money into Mercury- A fairly dead brand living it's last days in a nursing home.

I think this post pretty much sums it up.

I'm starting to see how Pontiac can stick around as the performance "niche" division along side Chevrolets in the showrooms.

I see it going the other way, cars like the Grand Am and Grand Prix had a great market share, they attracted buyers who wanted sportier transportation and some flair, were deciently attractive vehicles, and had some personality. The G6 did not capture the Grand Am drivers, also, the G8 is not doing well compared to the Grand Prix. Probably the best cars they had going were the Grand Am GT and Grand Prix GT/ GTP. While the V8 GXP is nice, it came too late and everyone knew it was to be short lived.

Bottom line, I see a demise in the performance appearance at pontiac, cars like the Trans Am in 2002 were mechanically similar to the Camaro, but buyers bought them because they looked different enough to justify the cost.

I see it going the other way, cars like the Grand Am and Grand Prix had a great market share, they attracted buyers who wanted sportier transportation and some flair, were deciently attractive vehicles, and had some personality. The G6 did not capture the Grand Am drivers, also, the G8 is not doing well compared to the Grand Prix. Probably the best cars they had going were the Grand Am GT and Grand Prix GT/ GTP. While the V8 GXP is nice, it came too late and everyone knew it was to be short lived.

Bottom line, I see a demise in the performance appearance at pontiac, cars like the Trans Am in 2002 were mechanically similar to the Camaro, but buyers bought them because they looked different enough to justify the cost.

I would argue that during the time when the Grand Am and the Grand Prix were doing well is because the rest of the GM lineup, especially the Chevrolets, were EXTREMELY boring. It's kind of like rationalizing that you'll hit on the less fat chick of the two fat chicks at the bar. Only the GP GXP had any kind of real performance value over the other more boring cars. I don't think the same argument can be made today given the styling advancements made within Chevrolet and what is due to come out.

Buick is a dead duck as far as I can foresee. If GM couldn't get people interested in Pontiac and Saturn, they've got a snowflake's chance in hell of resurrecting Buick (even with beautiful products in its portfolio).

GM could turn Buick into an export only brand. Sorta like how Pontiac is heading right now.

I still believe that GM's best chance of survival is with Chev, Caddy and GMC brands. Market share doesn't count anymore. It's profitability that's paramount right now.

Pontiac and Saturn have both turned into rebadged Chevy's. They are going after the same buyers as Chevy. There was little to distinguish an Aura from a G6 from a Malibu. Buick, could take the same car, use nicer materials, add some features, and charge a premium. Enclave sells are getting younger and newer buyers in the show room. It is also competing against a less expensive cousin on the same lot (not the brightest idea GM ever had).

I don't know what you mean about Pontiac being an export only brand. It is only sold in the US, Canada, and Mexico.

Long term, you might be right about Chev, Caddy and GMC, at least in the states. For GMC though, you might need some cars being sold at the same dealership. I think that is where Buick will fit in. It will be the GMC for cars.