So..why does GM put their worst NAV unit in the Vette?

This is the stuff with GM that makes you want to bang your head against the wall. I have always thought it..and the WSJ dinged the ZR1 for it just last weekend.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123448006442779627.html?mod=comcast_article

Then there's the navigation system, which is shoddy enough that you wonder if GM picked up a few thousand of them from a seller on eBay. GM offers a nearly perfect nav system in other models including the Cadillac CTS, but this is not that one. With a tiny 6.5-inch screen and a plodding interface, the unit is frustrating to use, all the more so because nav-equipped ZR1's lose the standard stereo system's auxiliary audio-input jack, meaning you can leave your iPod at home. That any carmaker would sell a car for this kind of cash in this day and age without iPod connectivity is preposterous.

He is spot on. For those who do not know, the unit in the Vette is the oldest once in GM's current inventory. The one in the GMT-900's (Black tie changer and nav) is one generation ahead, and the one in the CTS and upcoming cars is two generations ahead. We are talking squiggly lines on a black background here. The radio is probaly the thing you deal with most outside the steering wheel...and the fact that GM uses such a terrible NAV in such an expensive car is a shame. Not when they have the better ones I noted on the shelf. Driving a car with a good NAV system like Dodge's MyGig really makes driving a lot more enyoyable. AFAIK, the Vette is the only car where this unit is still used (It was in the Grand Prix).

So it got me thinking...does GM design any backwards compatability in their cars. For instance, you can get a new style NAV in an Equinox...which is as hold as the Vette. Or does GM design things like head units to require all new supporting systems and wiring for each car they go in. The Black Tie changer and Nav seem to go in everything...so I wonder why they can't go in the Vette.

For those who do not know..we are talking about this guy...

http://www.chevrolet.com/i/pic/corvette/2009/photogallery/popup_int_gallery06.jpg

Well, for one, the dash was designed for the 2005 model year, and this is the result.

CTS was a 2008 model year.

3 years makes a big difference in this type of tech.

If another unit can simply 'plug in' to Corvette, then there is reason to raise an eyebrow, but I am guessing that maybe the dash would have to be redone to accomodate this change.

Not saying the dash couldn't use a re-do either, but maybe that is the extra cost involved, and the reason for no update in the nav unit?

Any self respecting man that even needs Nav or a silly iPod jack doesn't deserve a ZR1.........yes, I'm serious....panty-waisted author needs to grow a pair and STFU.

Google maps are free, learn to read, plan ahead...when did people become so damned clueless?....not like you're gonna' drive the ZR1 on vacation...MP3's are for people who are clueless as to what music is supposed to sound like....God I hate those damned lousy sounding files....(I have a recording studio, so I'm damned particular)...

Dump those worthless options in a car like this....waste of time, money and weight....

You're driving a car with over 600hp, shut off the girlie gadgets and drive damnit.......

Any self respecting man that even needs Nav or a silly iPod jack doesn't deserve a ZR1.........yes, I'm serious....panty-waisted author needs to grow a pair and STFU.

Google maps are free, learn to read, plan ahead...when did people become so damned clueless?....not like you're gonna' drive the ZR1 on vacation...MP3's are for people who are clueless as to what music is supposed to sound like....God I hate those damned lousy sounding files....(I have a recording studio, so I'm damned particular)...

Dump those worthless options in a car like this....waste of time, money and weight....

You're driving a car with over 600hp, shut off the girlie gadgets and drive damnit.......
:lol: OK...

Might as well get rid of those leather seats too, who needs to be sliding around in their seat while doing 1 G on the skidpad? Chrome wheels? Sound deadening? Why not just remove the whole stereo and cruise control while were at it?

Lets make it a bare bones thrill machine...

:lol: OK...

Might as well get rid of those leather seats too, who needs to be sliding around in their seat while doing 1 G on the skidpad? Chrome wheels? Sound deadening? Why not just remove the whole stereo and cruise control while were at it?

Lets make it a bare bones thrill machine...

Fine by me....hell I'd rather drive the Riley & Scott Camaro than an SS any day.....because after 36 years of driving, I still enjoy the actually driving the car........don't need gadgets to entertain me while I drive.

And people wonder why the simplicity of the 60's and 70's muscle is liked so much. Even the 80's while we're at it.

And people wonder why the simplicity of the 60's and 70's muscle is liked so much. Even the 80's while we're at it.

:yes:. No nav system in mine:thumb:

We are talking squiggly lines on a black background here.

Come on now, its not THAT bad:lol:.
http://shopper.cnet.com/sc/32009788-2-300-DT2.gif

Any self respecting man that even needs Nav or a silly iPod jack doesn't deserve a ZR1.........yes, I'm serious....panty-waisted author needs to grow a pair and STFU.

Google maps are free, learn to read, plan ahead...when did people become so damned clueless?....not like you're gonna' drive the ZR1 on vacation...MP3's are for people who are clueless as to what music is supposed to sound like....God I hate those damned lousy sounding files....(I have a recording studio, so I'm damned particular)...

Dump those worthless options in a car like this....waste of time, money and weight....

You're driving a car with over 600hp, shut off the girlie gadgets and drive damnit.......


Fine by me....hell I'd rather drive the Riley & Scott Camaro than an SS any day.....because after 36 years of driving, I still enjoy the actually driving the car........don't need gadgets to entertain me while I drive.

Get out of my head Doug.....

:D

Bare bones car is Viper's mission, not ZR1. Funny, that Car & Driver praised the ZR1's nav system in the last issue I read (comparing it favorably with the unit in the SL65 AMG Black Series).

Doug Harden for President! :D

Doesn't OnStar still offer turn-by-turn directions?

The ZR1 really should offer something better in that $10k interior upgrade option. Maybe instead of the leather they use, they should consider using suede like in the CTS-V?

So GM should go offer a stripper ZR1 so that a grand total of about 1 or 2 people might buy one?

I think we all know that factorty stripper don't sell anymore, especially when they are six figure cars ....................................

C'mon guys, reality check here. ;)

i always thought it was funny that a cheap ass honda civic has an aux input but my $50k+ corvette has to have an aux input ghetto rigged in.

i know it is hard to believe for some people here but some people do indeed buy ZR1's or Z06's and they never hit the track, ever. i know, i know, shocking that some people buy fast cars to not race them, but this is reality.

How about looking at it like this?:

It's better to have A nav system, rather then NO nav system.

I would drive a ZR1 and not bitch about it even if it had a flat piece of aluminum for a dash with a few gauges thrown in.

MP3's are for people who are clueless as to what music is supposed to sound like....God I hate those damned lousy sounding files....(I have a recording studio, so I'm damned particular)..

Inside a car is hardly a perfect acoustic environment. Whatever sound quality is lost in an MP3 is negligible compared to the effects of poor acoustics, road noise, engine noise, poor seating position, etc in a car. OTOH, the convenience of being able to carry around THOUSANDS of songs in a box the size of a phone beats the pants off carrying around a multitide of CD cases. Not to mention, switching songs on an ipod is also much safer than thumbing through the aforementioned CD cases looking for the next thing you want to hear.

Sorry old man, but you're way off base here.

I do and have been agreeing completely with this sentiment for several years now. It's not just the Vette... it's that GM has been really far behind w/ nav development for years now and GM apologists keep trying to point at onstar's turn by turn directions. BS excuse if you ask me.

The CTS has it down perfectly (though I read edmunds has been having a ton of software glitches with their CTS's nav unit their experience is not alone)... but the Vette is a heavily dated design and cars like the Malibu and G6 don't even offer nav while cars like the Honda civic do. Something's not right there.

Any self respecting man that even needs Nav or a silly iPod jack doesn't deserve a ZR1.........yes, I'm serious....panty-waisted author needs to grow a pair and STFU.

GM did not design the ZR1 to be a stripper car or strictly purpose-built machine. If it did it would be even more stripped than the Z06, but it's not... it's actually got several more creature comforts than the Z06.
If you have a problem with that take it up with them, but since that was their decision, they could at least do it right. I don't blame them for trying though... they're trying to compete with high end Ferrarris, Lamborghinis, and Porsches that offer just as many creature comforts in their 6 figure cars.


MP3's are for people who are clueless as to what music is supposed to sound like....God I hate those damned lousy sounding files....(I have a recording studio, so I'm damned particular)...

Wow... way to sound like an elitist there. I'm an audiophile myself but I realize that any car, much less a noisy cramped car like a Vette with a fairly limited capability bose sound system isn't the place to really care about the lossy nature of an MP3 file. The difference between a 192kbps MP3 and a lossless audio file is going to be practically imperceptable at 50 mph in a ZR1 for 99.9% of the population. So what's left? The convenience of carrying around a single device in your pocket that contains and organizes 30,000 of your favorite songs. That sure beats carrying several thousand CDs in your ZR1, because, you know, that adds weight... plus it'd be a huge PITA to sort through them all.

Inside a car is hardly a perfect acoustic environment. Whatever sound quality is lost in an MP3 is negligible compared to the effects of poor acoustics, road noise, engine noise, poor seating position, etc in a car. OTOH, the convenience of being able to carry around THOUSANDS of songs in a box the size of a phone beats the pants off carrying around a multitide of CD cases. Not to mention, switching songs on an ipod is also much safer than thumbing through the aforementioned CD cases looking for the next thing you want to hear.

Sorry old man, but you're way off base here.


Polish a t.u.r.d and all you have is a shiney t.u.r.d.....trash in - trash out.

If you start with a p*ss poor sound file and then listen to it in a loud environment, your hearing even less of what it's SUPPOSED to sound like.....but then, if I have a 600+hp SC'd engine, I ain't gonna' be worried about listening to anything but it's "music"....this ain't no commuter car.

I ain't the one who's off base....maybe your kind of buyer should buy the CTS-V.....

Polish a t.u.r.d and all you have is a shiney t.u.r.d.....trash in - trash out.

If you start with a p*ss poor sound file and then listen to it in a loud environment, your hearing even less of what it's SUPPOSED to sound like.....but then, if I have a 600+hp SC'd engine, I ain't gonna' be worried about listening to anything but it's "music"....this ain't no commuter car.

I ain't the one who's off base....maybe your kind of buyer should buy the CTS-V.....

I still prefer the sound of the engine in a driving experience as opposed to anything else.

I was an audio engineer in a former life. MP3 is popular... so was Ms. Spears...
Mr. Manilow, etc, etc. MP3 is great for avoiding boredom and getting lots of tunes onto a small device.

As for OnStar turn by turn? The Mapquest download capability and ease of use, coupled with constant upgrade to actual road info is a plus, IMHO. I know how to read a map, so nav has never been a big plus for me. I have a laptop and a USB GPS antennae, if I want to use such a rig, and it lightyears cheaper than a dash mounted nav...plus I can carry it to another vehicle if required.

Our Malibu has Turn by Turn. Great ease of use and perfect for a spur of the moment "where is a so and so?" easy answer system. A more complicated routing is simple enough with planning a route with Mapquest ans selecting a dump to OnStar mouse click...

I suppose I just prefer a more organic experience when I plop myself into the driver's seat.

Polish a t.u.r.d and all you have is a shiney t.u.r.d.....trash in - trash out.

This logic works if you were to take a great sound system and feed it a somewhat lossy MP3 file.

However if we consider the general sound quality of the bose sound system and listening environment of the ZR1 to be a 'turd' by nature (and I'm not suggesting this needs improvement, I'm just calling it what it is), then the logic of your statement above actually defeats your own opinion.

If you 'polish' the turd of a 192kbps MP3 file by replacing it with a lossless file, you're actually 'polishing a turd' because you're still playing it through the Vette's sound system. In other words what you're hearing is a polished turd... a lossless file played through a horribly inaccurate sound system.

And while we're at it... we're still under the assumption here that the aux jack can only be used to play MP3s. That's an incorrect assumption since there are lossless formats that play on most "MP3 players" out there as well. So if the person really cares and can tell the difference in quality, they only have to load lossless sound files on their players instead, and then they still need that aux jack don't they?


if I have a 600+hp SC'd engine, I ain't gonna' be worried about listening to anything but it's "music"....this ain't no commuter car.You'd never play the radio or a CD in the car if you owned a ZR1? I doubt that. But regardless, you're in the extreme minority there... and since GM is building this car to sell to the entire planet, not just Doug Harden, the thought process is not what Doug Harden would do, it's what the average consumer would like to be able to do... and that includes listening to songs on their portable music player.... those shameless non audiophile bastards.:lol:

Since you have such the golden ear, I'd like to challenge you to tell me which of these is a lossless file and which one has been compressed to 320kbps MP3.

And as an added bonus you don't even have to use a ZR1's sound system while it's driving down the road... you can play this on your studio speakers.

www.threxx.com/A.wav (http://www.threxx.com/A.wav)
www.threxx.com/B.wav (http://www.threxx.com/B.wav)

Even if you can tell the difference (or guess lucky), you surely have to admit it's not a massive one, and it's not one you'd be able to discern in a ZR1 while driving, much less the rest of the non audiophile population.

When your going bankrupt you gotta cut costs somewhere.

Inside a car is hardly a perfect acoustic environment. Whatever sound quality is lost in an MP3 is negligible compared to the effects of poor acoustics, road noise, engine noise, poor seating position, etc in a car. OTOH, the convenience of being able to carry around THOUSANDS of songs in a box the size of a phone beats the pants off carrying around a multitide of CD cases. Not to mention, switching songs on an ipod is also much safer than thumbing through the aforementioned CD cases looking for the next thing you want to hear.

Sorry old man, but you're way off base here.


Convenience rules when it comes to media delivery systems. Vinyl is dead as a medium. On this I hope we can agree.

The notion of soundstaging is not really taken into consideration by the engineers who mix or master music media in this era. With some relative good reason due to the ability to approach that dimensionality through quality algorythms contained in good studio reverb devices.

With rare exception, recorded media is done with close microphone placement. Even more isolating direct input to the recording console and digital manipulation of analogue to digital modeling of guitar amp sims have been adopted. It's all based on expedient recording and saving hours and hours to acheive great sound capture. Music compilations are business cases. No difference at all from any other business case. IOW, how much cost to produce compared to hitting a profit return.

Digital methods are just a cheaper method which allows more consistantly acceptible, and thus, pleasant results. Thus, minimize the costs to get to return on investment scenario.

Digital media has many plus factors in it's favor. Analogue and tubes still have the dimension depth characteristics and warm realism which can not be matched up to this point.

Let's not confuse convenience with quality. Mp3's are borderline acceptible, not remarkable.

so you have road noise from the runflats, the engine noise, noise from other cars due to very little insulation, various squeaks and rattles, and the infamous quality of the stock BOSE setup... and we're concerned about the loss between lossless and mp3?

surely you cannot be serious

so you have road noise from the runflats, the engine noise, noise from other cars due to very little insulation, various squeaks and rattles, and the infamous quality of the stock BOSE setup... and we're concerned about the loss between lossless and mp3?

surely you cannot be serious

I know, right? 10 years ago i didn't even have a CD player in my car. You wanna compare signal to noise ratio of a cassette vs. compression loss of an mp3 and guess which sounds better?

I noticed when I put the Crower 296H cam in my Firebird, it was perceptibly louder than the Crane 280H. Does that mean I can join the pointless debate amongst the audiophiles? ;)

With that said, NAV is for my Mother, and my Grandmother...oh yeah, and my wife....and all my ex-g/f's...and my sisters....and.....old douchebags with popped collars and gold chains I guess...and I suppose my one lazy buddy that had his cell phone surgically attached to his hand so someone else can do everything for him in life.

Any self respecting man that even needs Nav or a silly iPod jack doesn't deserve a ZR1.........yes, I'm serious....panty-waisted author needs to grow a pair and STFU.

Google maps are free, learn to read, plan ahead...when did people become so damned clueless?....not like you're gonna' drive the ZR1 on vacation...MP3's are for people who are clueless as to what music is supposed to sound like....God I hate those damned lousy sounding files....(I have a recording studio, so I'm damned particular)...

Dump those worthless options in a car like this....waste of time, money and weight....

You're driving a car with over 600hp, shut off the girlie gadgets and drive damnit.......

:yes: Somebody needed to say it.

Since you have such the golden ear, I'd like to challenge you to tell me which of these is a lossless file and which one has been compressed to 320kbps MP3.

And as an added bonus you don't even have to use a ZR1's sound system while it's driving down the road... you can play this on your studio speakers.

www.threxx.com/A.wav (http://www.threxx.com/A.wav)
www.threxx.com/B.wav (http://www.threxx.com/B.wav)

Even if you can tell the difference (or guess lucky),

You're being too easy on him. You need to give him 10 choices since his ears are supposedly so well tuned it shouldn't be much of problem for him to tell the difference. 50/50 is better odds than paper, rock, scissors for pete's sake. I want to be impressed.

I still prefer the sound of the engine in a driving experience as opposed to anything else.

The stereo in my 95 Z/28 broke over a year ago, and I still have yet to replace it. :D

The stereo in my 95 Z/28 broke over a year ago, and I still have yet to replace it. :D

Clearly there is something very wrong with you, yes... very very wrong....:lol:

Please pick up the "There is something wrong with me" membership card at the "hardcore lunatic" table off to your right...:cool:

Instructions regarding the in the field secret handshake regimen will be forthcomming once the club has actually determind that there is actually "something wrong" with you.

You will find the handshake quite useful in the field. How to make the accompanying "barking sounds" which are a part of the secret handshake will come to you via an Mp3 file in your e-mail inbox..

We grant that the file is a bit compressed, but the meaning and nuance will be intact. At least for general club purposes.

The stereo in my 95 Z/28 broke over a year ago, and I still have yet to replace it. :D

Your lucky, half the cars I buy don't even come with such distractions to fill the ugly hole....I usually just stare at the jumble of wires visible through the gaping hole left by some miscreants futile attempt at converting the old shaftaroo to a DIN chassis with an xacto and a boning saw, which was forthwith stolen, for the next few years......

You're being too easy on him. You need to give him 10 choices since his ears are supposedly so well tuned it shouldn't be much of problem for him to tell the difference. 50/50 is better odds than paper, rock, scissors for pete's sake. I want to be impressed.


Was this a joke? 2 .wav files...where was the mp3?

Both files listed were identical .wav files, down to the number of bits in the file...5.04 mb.....both listed as 1411kbps, 16 bit 44.1khz...wav forms identical....both files of poor quality...no 'life' left in them what-so-ever....probably 2nd or 3rd generation conversions / copies.

If you take a poor file and play it in a poor system, it's gonna' sound worse than a great file in a poor system, this ain't rocket science....but if you're listening to music that sux anyway, WGAF?

Was this a joke? 2 .wav files...where was the mp3?

Both files listed were identical .wav files, down to the number of bits in the file...5.04 mb.....both listed as 1411kbps, 16 bit 44.1khz...wav forms identical....both files of poor quality...no 'life' left in them what-so-ever....probably 2nd or 3rd generation conversions / copies.

One file is an original untouched wav off a fairly well recorded CD... the other was converted directly to 320 kbps MP3 and then converted back to wav, matched in file size and meta data so you couldn't cheat like it sounds like you tried to.

If you take a poor file and play it in a poor system, it's gonna' sound worse than a great file in a poor system, this ain't rocket science....but if you're listening to music that sux anyway, WGAF?
That's true, but the diffference is extremely marginal. So marginal in fact that it will be imperceptable to the huge majority of the population while in a ZR1. You know what is perceptable? The awesome convenience of having tens of thousand of your favorite songs on a 6 ounce device with intelligent cataloging.

Aside from that, as I already stated, personal media players can play lossless files, so the whole MP3 discussion is out the door anyway... now we're back to discussing the lack of inclusion of a simple auxiliary jack when the nav option is purchased.

It's obvious you aren't interested in talking facts here... you just want to bitch and moan, so you're avoiding taking on any of the facts I've presented here and just want to continue with your rhetoric, rants and old sayings.

Doug is reminding me of the old uncle everyone has. The guy who who hates seat belts because they "hold you in after a crash", never uses the auto headlight option in their car, and won't buy a straight 6 from GM because they blew head gaskets in the 70's or somthing.

I dunno..maybe it is because I am younger, but technology is one of the things with cars that interests me the most.

The MyGig system in the Charger is great. It is not just a "nav" system...you can load CD's to it's HD, it has bluetooth, all kinds of stuff. To me it is depresssing GM has such a crappy unit in an expensive car..when they have better in the parts bin and this is the only car using the unit.

Maybe because the newer, better unit won't fit in the Corvette? I'm just guessing

One file is an original untouched wav off a fairly well recorded CD... the other was converted directly to 320 kbps MP3 and then converted back to wav, matched in file size and meta data so you couldn't cheat like it sounds like you tried to.


I didn't even have to cheat, you moron...I've only done this sh*t since 1969, so FO. Your little game was flawed from the moment you dreamed it up. You started with what I consider a poor recording, used your amatuer software to compress it to an MP3 and reconverted it to a wav. Want a cookie? Polishing t.u.r.d.s again....

It's obvious you aren't interested in talking facts here... you just want to bitch and moan, so you're avoiding taking on any of the facts I've presented here and just want to continue with your rhetoric, rants and old sayings.

Exactly what "facts" are you refering to? You haven't presented any.... Just your grade school understanding of music compression. Laughable at best.

You kids run along now, you bore me......

Personally, if I bought a 600+hp, $100k car I'd only order the options that made it perform better....not silly gadgets.

I give up. I've presented plenty of facts here. Portable files can be lossless, most people can't hear the difference in an environment like that, portable players offer huge advantages in convenience. All I'm asking for is an aux jack and you can't shut up about your massive e-wang/resume. Try explaining that to the average person as your give them your elitist lecture on their lossy MP3 and how real sports car enthusiasts only listen to the exhaust... when they're just trying to jam out while driving down the road in their ZR1 and can't hear any difference even if they tried, much less enough difference to actually care. They'd just like to be able to plug in their ipod and play their aac or mp3 files and not have to fumble around with CDs or listen to FM radio.:shrug:


Regarding the 'laughable' test I posted, I did not create those files. I simply rehosted them and renamed them to make googling for the answer impossible. I got the files about a year ago from a well respected test from a well respected poster on www.hydrogenaudio.org ... a website/forum basically dedicated to the discussion of audio compression techniques and comparisons. Nobody in that thread was complaining about it being a botched comparison, either, and these are people that care enough about music and compression standards to actually discuss it on a dedicated forum like this one is dedicated to cars.

If you can't hear the difference then I'm sorry but you lack the golden ear you claim to have.

I wanna put an 8-track in my car. :lol:



But seriously, I feel the Monsoon in my T/A sounds AWESOME. It's one of the best car stereos I've ever heard. The Monsoon in my Solstice ranks second.
Now maybe I haven't heard too many systems, but the 2 Monsoons are MORE than fine for me.

I simply do not understand the stupid obsession with nav units, nor the fact that people are willing to pay $1500-$3k for the damn things.

Use a map / atlas. Go to google maps before your trip. That said, GPS is handy, for sure, though I don't have one. My brother and my folks have portable GPS units. For $200-$300 I'll take a portable unit that works just fine without forcing a damn flat panel TV to dominate the dash. Not to mention, people are going to love it when these LCD "head units" start failing...

From a marketing standpoint, sure, the ZR1 ought to have something good in this regard. But from a sanity standpoint, this nav unit obsession is absurd.

JMHO, of course. ;)

nor the fact that people are willing to pay $1500-$3k for the damn things.




This is the main reason why I have yet to buy or lease a car with one... I can't justify the cost.

If it were cheaper, I probably would have opted for one in the SRX... but the high price, and the amount of use I would get out of it had me pass on it.

I simply do not understand the stupid obsession with nav units, nor the fact that people are willing to pay $1500-$3k for the damn things.

Use a map / atlas. Go to google maps before your trip. That said, GPS is handy, for sure, though I don't have one. My brother and my folks have portable GPS units. For $200-$300 I'll take a portable unit that works just fine without forcing a damn flat panel TV to dominate the dash. Not to mention, people are going to love it when these LCD "head units" start failing...

From a marketing standpoint, sure, the ZR1 ought to have something good in this regard. But from a sanity standpoint, this nav unit obsession is absurd.

JMHO, of course. ;)

I personally wouldn't pay $1500-2000 for just navigation, but these days the so called "nav" units are becoming far more functional than just for nav... they're like the central information center for everything about the car and everything else around you... like media centers. Play around with the one in the CTS... there's a ton more nice stuff to do with it than just find your way around town.

If it was just for nav then I'd just stick with one of the $200-250 garmin units. In fact we have yet to own a car with nav despite having had quite a few late model vehicles in our driveway that had nav as an option. But we do have one of those garmin units and love it... especially for road trips.

This got me thinking... I will be amazed if in 10 years or less LCD "nav" screens aren't standard equipment on almost all cars. There's going to come a breaking point where it just costs too much for a manufacturer to design, supply, and build two different center stacks, one for nav and one without.

In fact I almost wonder if that point has already occurred to an extent but not quite because people are still willing to pay an excessive premium, thus it's a money maker?

It's possible that when these screens become standard all features won't necessarily be included for free... almost like how you pay for different hardware or software when you buy a computer from Dell.

I know that the Lexus GS since the 2006 model year, for example, has had a standard "nav screen" but you get all functions EXCEPT nav itself with the base car... you have to pay the extra grand or whatever to get nav functionality built in which is craziness since you know it couldn't cost them but maybe $50 in hardware at the most to add/enable it.

Interestingly enough the Lexus LS460 that came out two model years later does not have an lcd screen standard on the base model... you only get it if you spring for nav. So for now the 3rd gen GS is the only car I know where you're getting a full size color LCD touch screen no matter what... but I expect more in the future.

I simply do not understand the stupid obsession with nav units, nor the fact that people are willing to pay $1500-$3k for the damn things.

Use a map / atlas. Go to google maps before your trip. That said, GPS is handy, for sure, though I don't have one. My brother and my folks have portable GPS units. For $200-$300 I'll take a portable unit that works just fine without forcing a damn flat panel TV to dominate the dash. Not to mention, people are going to love it when these LCD "head units" start failing...

From a marketing standpoint, sure, the ZR1 ought to have something good in this regard. But from a sanity standpoint, this nav unit obsession is absurd.

JMHO, of course. ;)

Threxx hit on what I was going to say, which is that they're MUCH more simply a map on a screen. It can show weather, traffic, location of the nearest hospital, your nearest bank, gas station (of your specific company), wal-mart, taco bell, hotels, fine dining, a route to get around the toll booth, etc. Not to mention the touch screens are just plain cool. :cool:

I have to admit, I purchased my first portable NAV unit a few weeks ago, and I found it quit useful for a day trip up to Napa with my wife on our anniversary. I does do a lot more than show a simple map on a screen. My favorite feature was the current speed and speed limit displays. While I could have googled maps in advance and printed them out and had my wife bark out turn by turn directions to the various wineries we planned to visit, it was far more pleasant listening to a computerized female on the NUVI. :D

Yes, there is a place for NAV on a DD car, but less so on a hard-core sporty car- though, when you get to 6 figures, doubtful about how hard core it still is- I like my Garmin- I can take it in any vehicle, update it via the web- it is a useful tool- if I need more, I have a laptop and a portable GPS- and two different companies base mapping- so what?

I won't even begin to discuss the golden audio- I have replaced the stock speakers in the last three monsoon systems I have owned - usually Infinity speakers, but also Polk and a couple others- I have been an audiophile back to 45 singles, and various vinyl formats- belt drive turntables versus direct drive- tube amplifiers versus solid state- I have a pretty decent ear myself, but I don't drive a 600 hp car to listen to tunes- I might want some background music, but more likely I would be just as happy to hear the tread pattering on the pavement, and the mesh of the gears in the rear differential- you would be amazed how much you can tell about a car just by listening to the cadence of the exhaust pulses- if you really care about being part of the motoring experience- Why else buy an ultimate sports car?

I wanna put an 8-track in my car. :lol:


I was thinking the same thing! I guess I don't see the need to care about what someone else has in their sports car. It's their car, they can have whatever they want to help them enjoy their vehicle.

Yes, there is a place for NAV on a DD car, but less so on a hard-core sporty car- though, when you get to 6 figures, doubtful about how hard core it still is- I like my Garmin- I can take it in any vehicle, update it via the web- it is a useful tool- if I need more, I have a laptop and a portable GPS- and two different companies base mapping- so what?

I won't even begin to discuss the golden audio- I have replaced the stock speakers in the last three monsoon systems I have owned - usually Infinity speakers, but also Polk and a couple others- I have been an audiophile back to 45 singles, and various vinyl formats- belt drive turntables versus direct drive- tube amplifiers versus solid state- I have a pretty decent ear myself, but I don't drive a 600 hp car to listen to tunes- I might want some background music, but more likely I would be just as happy to hear the tread pattering on the pavement, and the mesh of the gears in the rear differential- you would be amazed how much you can tell about a car just by listening to the cadence of the exhaust pulses- if you really care about being part of the motoring experience- Why else buy an ultimate sports car?

I don't care how hard corps one is, listening to the engine or the exhaust just gets old after a while. Anybody who says differently is blowing smoke.

Well, I guess we are all gunna have to suck it up as technology playes a bigger part in our cars.
Ill trade Corvette owner with a Navi/Radio system from their car, with my AM only radio in my 72, or my am/fm/casset set up in my 87.
I enjoy listening to both cars at cruise, but yes it gets old after a while, and I would like to listen to maybe a little Metalica, Disturbed, or hell some Jay Z while Im crusing above the speed limit.

Now, getting back to the actual topic at hand. In a 100K car, hell a 20k car, there are increasingly higher requirements for equipment. But really, the Corvette needs a massive MCE at this point since C7 wont be for some time and thats what this all comes down too.
Its interior was designed by the same people who designed pre-Lutz interiors, and covering it in leather is wrapping a turd. The overall design of teh interior hasnt changed over C5. Hell, look at the Malibu and Equinox, or even Camaro and look how different the design is. Its almost as if it was a different company that makes it!
Malibu has had 3 revisions since the introduction of the C6, from the new SWB Epsilon, to an MCE in 06, to a full revision in 08. Corvette has gotten some minor revisions, mostly under the skin.
Lets face it, GM knows how to make a performance car. Problem is that they are not nearly as great in making interiors. At 50k, leather stictched inteiror should be damn near standard!! Its standard on a 32k CTS. If GM makes it out of this alive, a C7 must leave the blue collar champion image behind and take on the performance sports car image head on. Porsche needs to be the target in everything. To me, it is Corvette's greatest and nearest rival. Its everything Corvette needs to be.
I have never really got to play with a Corvette's navi, but it deff looks like it needs to step up with the rest of GM's navi.
We can go on about GM's failure at nav systems placed in cars, but leave that for another thread.

I think I'm at the point now where EVERY car should have a nav/infotainment system in it.
When I was at the car show a few weeks ago, sitting in different cars, if it didn't have a screen in the middle of the dash, I found myself not liking the interior. Weird.
It's not like I'm a young kid, either.

The interiors just look more modern and more upscale with the LCD in the middle.

I love nav systems and when they add the functionality like the CTS's and the MyGig, that makes them all the better.

While I could have googled maps in advance and printed them out and had my wife bark out turn by turn directions to the various wineries we planned to visit, it was far more pleasant listening to a computerized female on the NUVI. :D

Better hope your wife doesn't read this :D

I didn't know that they show what the speed limit is. How accurate are they with construction zones where the speed is temporarily lowered?

I was asked if I wanted something like that for Christmas. I wish I would've said yes now! And I was wishing that the last few times I've gotten lost going somewhere... :o

This got me thinking... I will be amazed if in 10 years or less LCD "nav" screens aren't standard equipment on almost all cars. There's going to come a breaking point where it just costs too much for a manufacturer to design, supply, and build two different center stacks, one for nav and one without.

In fact I almost wonder if that point has already occurred to an extent but not quite because people are still willing to pay an excessive premium, thus it's a money maker?

It's possible that when these screens become standard all features won't necessarily be included for free... almost like how you pay for different hardware or software when you buy a computer from Dell.

I know that the Lexus GS since the 2006 model year, for example, has had a standard "nav screen" but you get all functions EXCEPT nav itself with the base car... you have to pay the extra grand or whatever to get nav functionality built in which is craziness since you know it couldn't cost them but maybe $50 in hardware at the most to add/enable it.

Interestingly enough the Lexus LS460 that came out two model years later does not have an lcd screen standard on the base model... you only get it if you spring for nav. So for now the 3rd gen GS is the only car I know where you're getting a full size color LCD touch screen no matter what... but I expect more in the future.

I like that idea. Maybe do like they have with OnStar, when you buy the car you get a 6-month or year-long trial subscription for free. That gives the owner a chance to use the Nav and decide whether or not they want to keep it.

Or if you buy a car that didn't have Nav, you could go to the dealership and have them simply upload a different program or since it would work along with OnStar, hit the button and they can send the program directly to your car.

Having the touchscreens standard across the board would mean that software designers could make quick changes to the look and interface of the Infotainment center instead of needing to change the tooling and the design of the dash, etc.

Does anybody know if the Nissan GT-R has navigation that works with that multi display screen that was designed by the folks that did the Gran Turismo games? I REALLY like the ideas behind that customizable gauge setup too.

I hope that one day a single LCD screen like Motec or Magnetti Marelli will be an option... Certainly lighter than guage clusters.

GPS? I'll pass. It's too easy to use a laptop or portable unit... cheaper too.

Yes, but wher do you put the lap top int he car?
Tough to do when you have your family in the car. Your wife or your kids with a laptop on thier laps will be uncomfortable fast.

I have a TomTom, and its great. but nothing beats the look and neato look of in the dash, intergrated navigation.

I think that more and more cars should just have a large LED screen to display radio and hvac controls. Example, the G8.

I would not want a Corvette with a Nav!

Corvettes are classics, and I dont see easily outdated technology like nav being very useful in a car after 5-10 years and the technology changes.

If you think the GM nav system is confusing, try BMW I drive:rolleyes::no: I could not even do the simplest of functions:mad:

I have no idea what the author of the article or any of the complainers are bitching about. I love the nav system in the Corvettes. It is an incredibly easy interface to use and it has never taken me down the wrong path in over 50,000+ miles of driving. Yes, it would be nice to have NavTraffic and a larger screen, but those are small complaints compared to how well it functions. I'm curious, how many of the people comlaining here actually have a significant amount of seat time with one of these systems?

We are talking squiggly lines on a black background here.

:no: That's an absurd and false statement.

I didn't know that they show what the speed limit is. How accurate are they with construction zones where the speed is temporarily lowered?
I got the NUVI 260W partially because it was on-sale and came bundled with the car kit and all the accessories, plus it can be upgraded to get the MSN-Traffic package. No traffic package now (I don't really need it), so I doubt the speed limits get updated for construction on the basic units. However the speed limit feature is cool... a little speed limit sign is displayed and your current speed is displayed on the bottom. Its fairly accurate, at least in my Tahoe.

Even without the traffic info, in the event I come up on congestion, I can just hit "DETOUR" and it recalculates an alternative route. :D

:no: That's an absurd and false statement.

In the dark it is squiggly lines on a black background..guess they add grey and green during the day.

Yeah, if I remember right, thats the night mode so you don't light up the inside too much and kill your night vision. Aircraft units do something similar.

In the dark it is squiggly lines on a black background..guess they add grey and green during the day.


Have you even looked at this system? It sure doesn't sound like it. I guess "GM Inside News" doesn't actually go "Inside" the cars. :rolleyes: I'm sitting here looking at at no less than 8 distinct colors on the unit in the day time. At night, its not just green and black. I switched it to night mode artificially and I see white, red, blue, green, black. Its much more comfortable, and safe, to view at night when the display is simplified. As the post above said, aircraft displays do the very same thing for the very same reasons. Do you want to criticize them as well? I guess those engineers at Boeing are idiots too?

How about you take chill pill huh? I have actually owned 4 cars with this nav unit in it..so I know it quite well. It was refering to night view and also being sarcastic. That being said...compared to every nav I have...from the Pioneer Avic D3 in my GTO, to the one in my wifes Avalanche, and the MyGig in my Charger...it is prehistoric and a joke in a $45K car.

Have you even looked at this system? It sure doesn't sound like it. I guess "GM Inside News" doesn't actually go "Inside" the cars. :rolleyes: I'm sitting here looking at at no less than 8 distinct colors on the unit in the day time. At night, its not just green and black. I switched it to night mode artificially and I see white, red, blue, green, black. Its much more comfortable, and safe, to view at night when the display is simplified. As the post above said, aircraft displays do the very same thing for the very same reasons. Do you want to criticize them as well? I guess those engineers at Boeing are idiots too?

How about you take chill pill huh? I have actually owned 4 cars with this nav unit in it..so I know it quite well. It was refering to night view and also being sarcastic. That being said...compared to every nav I have...from the Pioneer Avic D3 in my GTO, to the one in my wifes Avalanche, and the MyGig in my Charger...it is prehistoric and joke in a $45K car.

It is prehistoric and a joke in a $80K car! :mad:

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh145/NW94Z/Z06%20Interior/IMG_0594.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh145/NW94Z/IMG_0483.jpg