Is there a light at the end of the Z28 tunnel?

This is Motor Trend SOOOOOoo it must be true!!

http://www.motortrend.com/features/...urns/index.html

A new hood features a large, forward-facing scoop. Underneath is the 6.2-liter supercharged LSA V-8 that also powers the Cadillac CTS-V. As we have already confirmed, this is quite a powerplant, delivering 556 horsepower at 6100 rpm and 551 pound-feet of torque at 3800 rpm. The Z/28 will also share the CTS-Vs six speed manual and automatic transmissions :D

Alas there was this caveat: Only problem is the Z/28 is on hold. First, GM ran out of money to finish and launch the car. Now, some inside the company are wondering whether selling a super-fast, super-powerful two-door Chevy coupe that will likely get no better than 13-19 mpg is the right thing to do for a company that's had to beg for money from a bunch of politicians who seem to think it really ought to be building gas-sipping Prius clones :(

i dont car how many mpg's it would get. i wouldnt buy it to get great gas mileage. those things are expected when buying a hi-po car. i would love to get one.

I think that we can kiss off a Z/28 on this gen car.


It's bittersweet for me.

On the one hand, it would have been good to see GM focus some attention and funding on the Z/28 sub-brand again. On the other hand, would a 4100-4200 pound car really carry the spirit of the Z/28?

I would have settled with a var with the same power but lighter and with magnetic suspension and larger brakes

The sad thing is that due to GM's reliance on government money they feel compelled to be 'green-focused' and look at cars such as the ZR-1, CTS-V, Camaro or any V8 car with trepidation. This should NOT be the case. The fact that these V8 cars would constitute a smaller percentage of their entire line sales, but at the same time likely be their most popular vehicles, possibly boosting sales of minivans and compact cars makes them necessary.

At the same time Ford seems to not be concerned at all with releasing faster, more powerful, V8 powered Mustangs seemingly every 5 minuets! They know that Mustangs and F-150's are what get people to dealerships and the cooler the vehicle, the more car and truck sales they will stimulate.

GM needs to cut back to the bare minimum across their brands, and I feel eliminating several entire brands is actually necessary for their survival, which should leave them open to focus on 2-3 brands total. This would allow them a bit more freedom to get incredible cars such as the Z28 made. IF they build what's profitable, and not JUST what's appears to be the most 'green' cars to appease the government I think they will do well. Besides does anyone really believe that the government is the wisest choice to light the path of financial prosperity for corporate America? What's our national debt up to now? ;)

I used to want a LSA Z, but after seeing how easy it is to get big power out of the LS3 I think it's a dumb idea. Why add 110lbs to the nose of the car and have to put up with all that heat soak if an LS3 can make more power with a cam and bolt ons? If they build one now I think they should leave the motor alone and concentrate on everything else.

Anyone notice the resemblence of the concept Z28 in the motortrend article to the style of the Bumblebee Camaro? Notice the deep air vents on the facia and compare them to the front fascia of BB. Also the hood looks remarkably the same. If this rendering is a realistic depiction, it may appear that in looking at the Bumblebee, we have been seeing the possible future of the Z28 look. Maybe? :yes:

Interesting observation... :D

When the Transformers 2 Bumblebee came out they stated that it was based off of a current Camaro design that was still in development. I like it but have to agree that tweeking the current LS3 motor just makes more sense than a production Z28. Besides Saleen already said he would be producing his own variant of the SS, as well as all the other tuning houses. That's not counting the possibility of ordering say an LS7 crate motor and having Chevrolet install it for you!

By the way that LS7 motor shows up on GMPP web site for the bargain basement price of $14,870!! At 505 hp and 470 lb/ft it seems a bit steep for me.

I would have settled with a var with the same power but lighter and with magnetic suspension and larger brakes

.....then just buy a corvette! :p :D

Interesting observation... :D

As I read this article, I kept asking myself, "which came first...?" Unfortunately, you must read to the end of the post to get this:

"According to sources, GM product chief Bob Lutz has said that, while he would love to do the car, "We need to make the world right first." However, that could take cash-crunched GM a long, long time."

I am not holding my breath for this car.

i think that a car with the same power as the ss, but lighter, would be perfect for a z28. who said it had to have cts-v power or zr1 power to be a z28? why couldnt it just be the same power plant as the ss(vette) and be maybe 500lbs lighter,different wheels/tires, brakes, maybe a few appearance differences to separate it from the ss?? that would be a pretty sweet z28.

It's gonna be impossible to get 500lbs out of it and still meet noise, emissions, and crash standards. Plus you gotta keep the huge wheels and brakes and IRS so the thing can handle. Unless the removable body panels weigh 4x what they did on the 4th gen, I'd say they won't even get 150lbs off this car.

I used to want a LSA Z, but after seeing how easy it is to get big power out of the LS3 I think it's a dumb idea. Why add 110lbs to the nose of the car and have to put up with all that heat soak if an LS3 can make more power with a cam and bolt ons? If they build one now I think they should leave the motor alone and concentrate on everything else.

I like where you going with that except leaving the motor alone. Keep the LS3 but add a stronger cam and add the bolt-ons to it. That with reduced weight a greater suspension could generate close to the same performace as an LS9 based Z and it would be more true to the original race inspired Z28. But in reality and as already stated, how much weight can really be saved?

Just say no.....a big ol' heavy SC'd engine and over 4,100#'s is NOT a Z/28.....never was, never should be.......Riley & Scott got closer.....

Just say no.....a big ol' heavy SC'd engine and over 4,100#'s is NOT a Z/28.....never was, never should be.......Riley & Scott got closer.....

Bill Riley looked at the rules and won the bid to build a Camaro which could compete in a series. Same with Vince Piggins when choosing to go after the original TransAM class back in the 60's.

It's gonna be impossible to get 500lbs out of it and still meet noise, emissions, and crash standards. Plus you gotta keep the huge wheels and brakes and IRS so the thing can handle. Unless the removable body panels weigh 4x what they did on the 4th gen, I'd say they won't even get 150lbs off this car.

actually you probably could drop 500 lbs pretty easily. between using fiberglass instead of metal for panels, lighter wheels instead of 30-32lbs rims, take out alot of electrica bs in the interior, racing seats. it wouldnt bee that hard to drop that much weight and still stay in the safety zone.

that is basically what i plan on doing to my camaro. ive already found wheels that weigh 18lbs a piece. and their actually 22". im going to do fiberglass or carbon fiber hood and maybe trunk if i can find one. lighter drive shaft. even changing exhaust systems is lighter most of the time. as far as interior im not going to guy it out. i paid for the 2ss and i want to enjoy the plush interior. but as far as everything else i do to the car, my goal is to drop as much weight off of it as possible. i guess this will be my version of a z28.

actually you probably could drop 500 lbs pretty easily. between using fiberglass instead of metal for panels, lighter wheels instead of 30-32lbs rims, take out alot of electrica bs in the interior, racing seats. it wouldnt bee that hard to drop that much weight and still stay in the safety zone.

that is basically what i plan on doing to my camaro. ive already found wheels that weigh 18lbs a piece. and their actually 22". im going to do fiberglass or carbon fiber hood and maybe trunk if i can find one. lighter drive shaft. even changing exhaust systems is lighter most of the time. as far as interior im not going to guy it out. i paid for the 2ss and i want to enjoy the plush interior. but as far as everything else i do to the car, my goal is to drop as much weight off of it as possible. i guess this will be my version of a z28.

I suspect that you'll be sadly disappointed. 500 pounds is anything but easy to remove - unless you intend to completely gut your car.

150-200 might be stretching it.

I wonder if MT looked at the Bumblebee and decided to make their picture look like it or if Bumblebee was to have been the glimpse of the Z28.

With all that GM has become and will need to be in order to stay in business I don't see how a low volume niche vehicle like the Z28 has any room post bailout. It's really going against what the Gov. and CAFE have mandated. Fun cars like the Z28 should be reserved for car companies that can afford them in good times. Neither exist here and now. Besides the 2010 Camaro V6, RS and SS will do justice for the brand just fine.

The sad thing is that due to GM's reliance on government money they feel compelled to be 'green-focused' and look at cars such as the ZR-1, CTS-V, Camaro or any V8 car with trepidation. This should NOT be the case. The fact that these V8 cars would constitute a smaller percentage of their entire line sales, but at the same time likely be their most popular vehicles, possibly boosting sales of minivans and compact cars makes them necessary.

At the same time Ford seems to not be concerned at all with releasing faster, more powerful, V8 powered Mustangs seemingly every 5 minuets! They know that Mustangs and F-150's are what get people to dealerships and the cooler the vehicle, the more car and truck sales they will stimulate.

GM needs to cut back to the bare minimum across their brands, and I feel eliminating several entire brands is actually necessary for their survival, which should leave them open to focus on 2-3 brands total. This would allow them a bit more freedom to get incredible cars such as the Z28 made. IF they build what's profitable, and not JUST what's appears to be the most 'green' cars to appease the government I think they will do well. Besides does anyone really believe that the government is the wisest choice to light the path of financial prosperity for corporate America? What's our national debt up to now? ;)

Agreed, w/ every bit of it

Just mass produse the LS7 Camaro that is has been going around to shows and call it the Z28. Lose 4 of the airbags, which will save money and still be legal for the road, lightweight wheels, and seats. Also add a lightweight exhaust, have you seen the exhaust on the SS, that thing looks like it weighs a ton. Do these things and you will have a 505 HP Camaro that is about 200 pounds lighter, and perfectly street legal.

it ain't gonna happen. GM already put the Camaro on a diet. It probably would have weighed within 50# of the G8 otherwise. The car is built like a tank because they originally planned on sharing the platform with the Impala and they most likely already planned on putting a supercharged engine in it. They also heard the cries of people who complained about having weak parts, so they overbuilt it.

actually you probably could drop 500 lbs pretty easily. between using fiberglass instead of metal for panels, lighter wheels instead of 30-32lbs rims, take out alot of electrica bs in the interior, racing seats. it wouldnt bee that hard to drop that much weight and still stay in the safety zone.

that is basically what i plan on doing to my camaro. ive already found wheels that weigh 18lbs a piece. and their actually 22". im going to do fiberglass or carbon fiber hood and maybe trunk if i can find one. lighter drive shaft. even changing exhaust systems is lighter most of the time. as far as interior im not going to guy it out. i paid for the 2ss and i want to enjoy the plush interior. but as far as everything else i do to the car, my goal is to drop as much weight off of it as possible. i guess this will be my version of a z28.

Actually, you can not drop 500 pounds easily from the Camaro SS. Hood, trunk, and fenders combined are about 100 pounds, so whatever you replace them with will be less weight loss than that.


Car rims haven't weighed 32 pounds a piece since those thick steel wheels dissappeared. The Corvette rims on my car are under 20 pounds each. The driveshaft is already aluminum, and not advisible to replace it unless you want to use your 420 lbs/ft of torque and 3800 pound curb weight to find new ways to destroy metal tubing... the driveshaft isn't too much heavier than a new car rim, BTW.

I suppose you could save about 20 or so pounds switching to a single exhaust, but thinking you'll save any weight and keep duals isn't realistic.

Your proposals would be lucky to trim 100 pounds from the car, let alone 500.

The fact is that the Camaro SS is a car engineered to handle at least 500 horsepower and take serious hits and keep you alive. The body is a tank. The drivetrain is made for the expected drag racing abuse some owners will put their Camaro through without breaking itself into scrap metal. Engineers don't simply add metal for S&Gs, and beancounters aren't willing to pay for metal that does no good or exotic materials that have no clear advantage or cost/value.

There is a saying:

"If something could be easily done, then it would have been done already".

Forget about taking weight out of the Camaro... you can't do it.

If weight is paramount and you want a V8, then buy a 3500 pound Mustang GT. Even V6 powered Infinity G37 coupes weigh as much as Camaros today.

They NEED the Z28 if not for image alone. This company needs to create excitement and traffic in showrooms in ANY way possible. The top, or should I say over-the-top image vehicles do that. Letting the competition "win" the performance games isn't gonna make GM look any better.

Just say no.....a big ol' heavy SC'd engine and over 4,100#'s is NOT a Z/28.....never was, never should be......

Yeah, but I don't really think we're asking for that though. I think most of us would be happy with a worked LS3 or maybe a less fancy LS7 with freer flowing exhaust, seriously retuned suspension, and bigger brakes. Give it it's own look all-around outside, mandatory stripes, and Z28 emblems. Kinda like a 1LE times 10, which is basically the Z28 formula anyway.

Actually, you can not drop 500 pounds easily from the Camaro SS. Hood, trunk, and fenders combined are about 100 pounds, so whatever you replace them with will be less weight loss than that.


Car rims haven't weighed 32 pounds a piece since those thick steel wheels dissappeared. The Corvette rims on my car are under 20 pounds each. The driveshaft is already aluminum, and not advisible to replace it unless you want to use your 420 lbs/ft of torque and 3800 pound curb weight to find new ways to destroy metal tubing... the driveshaft isn't too much heavier than a new car rim, BTW.

I suppose you could save about 20 or so pounds switching to a single exhaust, but thinking you'll save any weight and keep duals isn't realistic.

Your proposals would be lucky to trim 100 pounds from the car, let alone 500.

The fact is that the Camaro SS is a car engineered to handle at least 500 horsepower and take serious hits and keep you alive. The body is a tank. The drivetrain is made for the expected drag racing abuse some owners will put their Camaro through without breaking itself into scrap metal. Engineers don't simply add metal for S&Gs, and beancounters aren't willing to pay for metal that does no good or exotic materials that have no clear advantage or cost/value.

There is a saying:

"If something could be easily done, then it would have been done already".

Forget about taking weight out of the Camaro... you can't do it.

If weight is paramount and you want a V8, then buy a 3500 pound Mustang GT. Even V6 powered Infinity G37 coupes weigh as much as Camaros today.
actually i got an email from john fitzpatrick about the wheels on the ss. they weigh 30 lbs in the front and 32 lbs in the rear a piece. i have all the weights for the tires also31lbs for the front tires and 35lbs for the rear tires.
om sure your wheels on your vette arent 20: either. they are probably 17 and 18 (c5) or 18 and 19(c6). the spokes on the vettes are also quite a bit thinner, thus , to help the weight loss. the camaro spokes are alot thicker than the rims on the vette. also the paint that is put on the rims give it a little bit of weight compared to a regular polished wheel.

as far s drive shafts their are carbon fiber drive shafts now that are much lighter than the stock. the wheels i am putting on my camaro will actually save me 50 lbs off of the car including the tires. even if i can replace the hood and trunk ill shave off 20+lbs right there im at almost 100lbs just on changing a few parts. as far as the exhaust, i know stock exhaust are always bigger and heavier for emmisions and aftermarket are quite a bit lighter even if they are still duals, which i will be keeping. whether i chose borla or corsca, i dont know which one weighs less yet. i dont have those numbers.

yeah i know my buddy has a new g37 coupe. theres alot of mechanical bs on that car. and its not even the all wheel drive.

as far as losing the weight from the plant, its not possible because they have to passs certain regulations. i know this. but there is no stopping me from doing it on my own. everything i have decided to change thus far on my new camaro will get me atleast 100 lbs off of the car. not to mention how much quicker the car will be due to the weight loss on the moving parts(driveshaft,wheels) 500 lbs may seem a little much to some people but its possible and if not achieved, then the lbs per hp has sure gone down. which will in the end still make a quicker car.

Come to think about it, I seem to remember that GM will be offering a very special edition Camaro that is super lightweight.... I would actually be surprised if this package weighs over 3000 pounds!

Ah, here is a thread about it...
http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/showthread.php?t=657951

I really don't know why they cant use the Ls7 in a Z/28. I have seen this engine for sale on the net for 13k and the LS3 for $6500. So it should cost GM $6500 more to add the 427, unless its a engine capacity issue.

I would think that they could offer this car for under 40K if they wanted to and even offer a 1SS trim for us guys that don't need or want the Extras. I dont need heated seats in a summer car.:)

Add some different wheels, hood, spoiler, tighten the suspention and you have a Z/28. I assume all of the cosmetics have been done already.

They NEED the Z28 if not for image alone. This company needs to create excitement and traffic in showrooms in ANY way possible.

The Camaro name alone will bring in people by the droves. Add to that the
car has not been in the market place since 2002, add to that the base
has 300+HP(:cool:), add to that the SS model. There is a lot here to
create excitement. Hopefully in the futrue GM makes the right business
desisicons and becomes healthy again and the Z28 would not be too far
behind.

They NEED the Z28 if not for image alone. This company needs to create excitement and traffic in showrooms in ANY way possible. The top, or should I say over-the-top image vehicles do that. Letting the competition "win" the performance games isn't gonna make GM look any better.



Yeah, but I don't really think we're asking for that though. I think most of us would be happy with a worked LS3 or maybe a less fancy LS7 with freer flowing exhaust, seriously retuned suspension, and bigger brakes. Give it it's own look all-around outside, mandatory stripes, and Z28 emblems. Kinda like a 1LE times 10, which is basically the Z28 formula anyway.
they dont NEED the z28. we want it. chevy as a brand has a few cars already generating excitement for the company(z06, zr1) the camaro will add to the excitement. it would just be nice to have a competator for the gt500 and other hi end competition. i think that if not the ls3 with a more aggressive cam, then the ls7. that would be the perfect combonation. 500 hp would be just enough to beat the gt500. throw some new wheels on lighten some stuff up a bit. give it a more aggressive appearance, and BAM! you got the Z. one of the things i have notices people dont liek about the zr1 is that it doesnt look much different from the rest of the vettes. so i think they would have to give it some type of individuality.

Come to think about it, I seem to remember that GM will be offering a very special edition Camaro that is super lightweight.... I would actually be surprised if this package weighs over 3000 pounds!

Ah, here is a thread about it...
http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/showthread.php?t=657951

HAHAHAHA..... thats actually not a bad idea, it takes away all the crap I don't want. Then I can add all the stuff I do want.

It won't even be hard to register, ask any Nissan Skyline owner, they have the best loop holes to get any car resgistered

It looks like shaving weight will not happen. Unless they decide to axe the back seat ala Mustang Cobra R, axe the A/C and radio. Go with ultra light wheels and lighter suspension components (expensive) and MAYBE GM could shave 75-100 lbs for a limited edition Z28. But I don't see that happening.
I think that perhaps dealer participation like the Yenko's and Bergers of old is what we are going to see for a Super Camaro. They could drop in a LS7 or LSA and charge whatever they want. People will buy them. Or even slap a ProCharger on the LS3 or Heads & Cam package. That's a reality I can see happening now. With liberals running the show and writing the check to GM, it would be foolish for GM to bite the hand that has fed it and build a LSA Z28. I don't see that happening at all. It is their goal to make you feel guilty for driving or building anything that isn't GREEN. (now if the next congressional election tosses up the power in D.C. maybe things could change but I doubt it.)

Guys you are forgetting the seats in this car probably weigh a ton. They have the airbags in them and are powered. Lose those and I bet you could save an easy 70 pounds with some lightweight seats. The exhaust on this car looks very heavy. I am sure their is another 30 pounds to save in there. Like said earlier carbon Fiber half shafts and driveshafts would also save some weight and in the right places.

Guys you are forgetting the seats in this car probably weigh a ton. They have the airbags in them and are powered. Lose those and I bet you could save an easy 70 pounds with some lightweight seats. The exhaust on this car looks very heavy. I am sure their is another 30 pounds to save in there. Like said earlier carbon Fiber half shafts and driveshafts would also save some weight and in the right places.

I would not recommend deleting a safety device from a vehicle which is meant to operate on public roads.

There are lightweight seats which are available for "off road" vehicles.

There are weight saving materials which can be substituted on a vehicle in the area of body panel construction if consistant body gaps under any weather condition are not the most important thing to be considered.

Some of the most positive payoff weight reductions in a vehicle are the unsprung weight. This also include reducing the mass' distance from the rotational center point.

I still say I'd buy it, if and when they build it! :D

I still say I'd buy it, if and when they build it! :D


Oh I'm sure, that even if it cost 45k MSRP PLUS Dealer markup they would sell every limited one they built. Economy be damned.

that is exactly what im saying. there is alot of weight that can be removed from the car. you lose alot of comfort but hey its possible. like i said before, as far as the fatory taking some of the weight off, im sure they cant. they have to meet certain requirements. and using thins like carbon fiber all over the car instead of sheet metal will just jack the price up. but my point is, there is alot of weight saving things that can be done, on a persons own to shed alot of weight. any moving part that gets a weight reduction will help increase the power of the car.

Oh I'm sure, that even if it cost 45k MSRP PLUS Dealer markup they would sell every limited one they built. Economy be damned.

im sure they would sell out as soon as they were found to be able to be ordered. they wouldnt even hit the showroom floors before they sold out.

I would not recommend deleting a safety device from a vehicle which is meant to operate on public roads.

There are lightweight seats which are available for "off road" vehicles.

There are weight saving materials which can be substituted on a vehicle in the area of body panel construction if consistant body gaps under any weather condition are not the most important thing to be considered.

Some of the most positive payoff weight reductions in a vehicle are the unsprung weight. This also include reducing the mass' distance from the rotational center point.
Removing the side airbags which are in the seats would be a slight gamble, but none of my vehicles I own have them, and I dont think they are required by law, so why not take them out. Or make them optional. If the law requires them then this all a mute point.
Why not make the seats available for onroad use that are the same weight. I bet a carbon fiber sparco seat is better built than the stock ones anyhow.
I think changing body panels wouldnt gain much weight reduction.
Look under the new camaro and check out the exhaust. that thing is heavy.

they could just give the interior a stripped down version. no power seats,mirrors,windoes,locks. i knwo that on the subaru wrx sti didnt even have a radio. you could make radios an option. lighten up the seats. hell yeah. this is very possible.

they could just give the interior a stripped down version. no power seats,mirrors,windoes,locks. i knwo that on the subaru wrx sti didnt even have a radio. you could make radios an option. lighten up the seats. hell yeah. this is very possible.The problem with that theory is that the target buyers don't want a stripped down version. Basically I want a loaded 2SS with a supercharged V8. I can give a ratsass how much it weighs. :p

well then.
i guess they cant please everyone. because what if they were to make a z28 like this or what if they were to make a z28 like you say? keep if the same weight and just throw in a ls8 or 9. either way, not everyone is going to be happy. if i were to want a z28 to be built, i think i would buy it anyways. no matter what engine/ weight combo it had. i just want a hi - po camaro. but what might be better for me without really voiding any powertrain warranties, just yet, would be for me to slim it down as much as i can to get some significant power to weight ratios.

I figure this much... as the hood is already aluminum, there isn't much way to lighten up the front end except by using exotic and expensive parts. (Carbon fiber, etc.) I still argue with those that say the LSA would be hundreds of pounds more than the LS3. (We've yet to see real numbers on the mass of the complete engine assemblies.) Therefore, seeing a performance increase between ~125-150hp over the LS3/L99 package, I'd surely sacrifice the little added weight.

In a perfect world GM could merely use the already developed LS376/480 crate motor which virtually adds no weight over the LS3 yet pumps out almost 500hp. But then they'd have to certify it for production, which could delay it more, and simply saying it has 50+ more hp over the LS3 may not be enough to justify its existance without adding forced induction.

I guess they could always offer a drag package like Ford and Chrysler are doing and use whatever engine they want. But then we wouldn't get to drive it on the street. :(

Carbon fiber hood and deck lid could save 40lbs, even over aluminum. I know a lot of 4th gen guys that replaced the hood
Cut out some sound proofing, another 30-40lbs, and maybe some other things, 150lbs should be easy to pull otu of the car.

I don't know, a lot of the after market hoods for the new Mustangs are heavier than the stock aluminum one, and even a full carbon fiber one only saves 5-10lbs.

I figure this much... as the hood is already aluminum, there isn't much way to lighten up the front end except by using exotic and expensive parts. (Carbon fiber, etc.) I still argue with those that say the LSA would be hundreds of pounds more than the LS3. (We've yet to see real numbers on the mass of the complete engine assemblies.) Therefore, seeing a performance increase between ~125-150hp over the LS3/L99 package, I'd surely sacrifice the little added weight.

In a perfect world GM could merely use the already developed LS376/480 crate motor which virtually adds no weight over the LS3 yet pumps out almost 500hp. But then they'd have to certify it for production, which could delay it more, and simply saying it has 50+ more hp over the LS3 may not be enough to justify its existance without adding forced induction.

I guess they could always offer a drag package like Ford and Chrysler are doing and use whatever engine they want. But then we wouldn't get to drive it on the street. :(good way to figure out the weight difference in the ls9 and the ls3 would be to take the vette compared to the zr1. it would give you a pretty close number. assuming there are some other mods to the car. but at least you can see that they would change more on the car than just dropping a more powerful motor in. the odds are they would do SOME lightening of the body. or it may be heavier. i dont know.

I don't know, a lot of the after market hoods for the new Mustangs are heavier than the stock aluminum one, and even a full carbon fiber one only saves 5-10lbs.
they must be using alot of resin and fiber glass. the hoods ive ever seen for my old trans am were always lighter than stock.

Hrm...
I guess they are just gunna have to make the whole car out of aluminum. Front fenders shouldnt be too bad, but the rear sections looks like its gunna be a pain to make! :)

arent the rear fenders all part of the stamping of the body? so basically if you wanted to lighten up the rear fenders you would have to cut them out and weld in new ones,

why not just load the trunk and back seat with helium balloons?:lol:

good way to figure out the weight difference in the ls9 and the ls3 would be to take the vette compared to the zr1. it would give you a pretty close number. My understanding of the ZR1 assembly is that its far more that swapping motors in the base Corvette. Furthermore, while the Z06 is probably closer, there are still some basic differences between the two that would make the math your proposal far from "close".

GM knows the weight differences between the LS3 and LSA (which btw is what this theoretical Z/28 would get, not the LS9), we just simply haven't dug it out of them yet. ;)

FWIW, I believe someone will have a 50-state legal bolt-on supercharger kit for the LS3 long before we ever see a Z/28 make production. Perhaps that is a route many will take.

GM knows the weight differences between the LS3 and LSA (which btw is what this theoretical Z/28 would get, not the LS9), we just simply haven't dug it out of them yet. ;)

.


Yes we have. You just simply refuse to believe it.

im sure alot of companies will be doing ls9 or lsa conversion kits on the ls3 camaro.

Yes we have. You just simply refuse to believe it.I must've missed it Charlie, what is the official weight of each complete assembly.

I suspect that you'll be sadly disappointed. 500 pounds is anything but easy to remove - unless you intend to completely gut your car.

or spend lots of money doing it - Dymag could help in the wheel department, but I think alot of F5 guys would balk at a 8-10k wheel option!

Check out this article.

GM disbands unit that creates high-performance vehicles (http://www.autoweek.com/article/20090218/CARNEWS/902189973)

I don't think we'll ever see a Z28 in the current Camaro. By the time GM is financially strong enough, I don't think a low mileage car like a LSA Camaro will be possible. Maybe in the 6th gen Camaro will have a Z28?

Looks like all hope for a Z28 is gone :shame:

Looks like all hope for a Z28 is gone :shame:


Yup....I'd tend to agree.

Check out this article.

GM disbands unit that creates high-performance vehicles (http://www.autoweek.com/article/20090218/CARNEWS/902189973)

I don't think we'll ever see a Z28 in the current Camaro. By the time GM is financially strong enough, I don't think a low mileage car like a LSA Camaro will be possible. Maybe in the 6th gen Camaro will have a Z28?

Thats not cool, however Ford did something similar with its SVT operations (err, well folded them into Ford Performance Group) - this may not be a death sentence for the Z/28 since Ford has the Raptor and SHO in addition to the GT500. All vehicles which would have been under the SVT banner had it still been in exsistance as a seperate enity.

Looks like all hope for a Z28 is gone :shame:


Yup. Maybe on the 6th gen.

Maybe in the 6th gen Camaro will have a Z28?

I hope!

Well, at least those of us that were holding out for a Z can now go ahead and get a SS.

http://www.egmcartech.com/2009/02/17/556-hp-chevrolet-camaro-z28-is-done-but-on-hold-until-financial-condition-improves/

why not just build your own interpretation of what the z28 would be? at least you can do it on your own now instead of complaining that its not what you wanted it to be when/ if it comes out. we all know not everyone has the same taste, so at least you can do it your own way now.

I'm sure the aftermarket and GMPP will offer everything you need to create your own. Including the front facia and hood.

you think theyll offer a new front end and hood through gmpp? like what is on bumblebee? assuming thats the z28 version.

Check out this article.

GM disbands unit that creates high-performance vehicles (http://www.autoweek.com/article/20090218/CARNEWS/902189973)

I don't think we'll ever see a Z28 in the current Camaro. By the time GM is financially strong enough, I don't think a low mileage car like a LSA Camaro will be possible.

Looks like all hope for a Z28 is gone :shame:

Who's to say most of the work isn't already done and all they need is someone at the top to say "Build it!" and rush it into production? :p

Only time will tell.

Who's to say most of the work isn't already done and all they need is someone at the top to say "Build it!" and rush it into production? :p

Only time will tell.because the govt. has control of gm now with this bail out. theres no way its possible. they now tell them what to build. they havent told them what not to build yet because i think gm knows what not to build right now.

because the govt. has control of gm now with this bail out. theres no way its possible. they now tell them what to build. Can you show evidence of the government telling GM what to build? :think:

no i cant but ill gaurantee that gm is very leary about building anything hi performance right now. whos to say if they would decide to build a z28 and that the govt. wont pull their money their lending because its not very fuel efficient or safe for the environment. obviously we know the govt. wants them to use the money in the right areas, hybrids and electric cars.

you think theyll offer a new front end and hood through gmpp? like what is on bumblebee? assuming thats the z28 version.

If not GMPP, then someone will. I guarantee it. And Yes, I think that was supposed to be the Z28. I posted that when I first saw the new Bumblebee last year.

no i cant but ill gaurantee that gm is very leary about building anything hi performance right now. whos to say if they would decide to build a z28 and that the govt. wont pull their money their lending because its not very fuel efficient or safe for the environment. obviously we know the govt. wants them to use the money in the right areas, hybrids and electric cars.
If that were the case, they'd kill Corvette, Camaro and G8 today. But we all know if that were to happen, then GM would basically be dead.

The disbanding of the GM performance division has nothing to do with Camaro. It has to do with performance versions of typically non-performance vehicles, i.e. Cobalt SS, HHR SS, Impala SS, CTS-v, etc. GM is merely focusing away from those low volume products towards making their high volume products more efficient. (Both in terms of fuel economy and lowering production costs.) Which as you said, goes a long way towards showing the government that they're on the right track.

There's no reason to not sell the Z28. The car is done, alot of money probably went into making the car, and they'll probably turn a profit on them. The Volt, which no one will really wanna buy unless gas goes crazy again, is what they'll lose money on. Gas is cheap right now and people want exciting cars, this is the perfect time to release the Z28. The V6 and SS are pretty good on gas, we need one car that's all about pure fun and performance in the lineup.

arent the rear fenders all part of the stamping of the body? so basically if you wanted to lighten up the rear fenders you would have to cut them out and weld in new ones,


That would involve starting at ground zero with the feds for crash testing certification...it aint gonna happen at that kind of expense for re-engineering everything to make the feds happy.

My understanding of the ZR1 assembly is that its far more that swapping motors in the base Corvette. Furthermore, while the Z06 is probably closer, there are still some basic differences between the two that would make the math your proposal far from "close".

GM knows the weight differences between the LS3 and LSA (which btw is what this theoretical Z/28 would get, not the LS9), we just simply haven't dug it out of them yet. ;)

FWIW, I believe someone will have a 50-state legal bolt-on supercharger kit for the LS3 long before we ever see a Z/28 make production. Perhaps that is a route many will take.

The Z06 and ZR1 use the same aluminum frame with magnesium cradles I believe. The Z06 frame is nearly 200 lbs lighter than the standard vette frame. I don't know if the ZR1 has additional carbon fiber supports to make the frame lighter than the Z06.
Regardless...the light at the end of our tunnel for a Z28 has gone out for a few years. We're gonna have to throw some $$ at our Camaros for intake, exhaust and cams (and probably a 3.73 rear end). Oh well...

That would involve starting at ground zero with the feds for crash testing certification...it aint gonna happen at that kind of expense for re-engineering everything to make the feds happy. thats what i thought. someone had just said something about replaceing the fenders with fiberglass.

There's no reason to not sell the Z28. The car is done, alot of money probably went into making the car, and they'll probably turn a profit on them. The Volt, which no one will really wanna buy unless gas goes crazy again, is what they'll lose money on. Gas is cheap right now and people want exciting cars, this is the perfect time to release the Z28. The V6 and SS are pretty good on gas, we need one car that's all about pure fun and performance in the lineup.
i think i would be a little disapointed if they brought the z28 out in a year or so. im buying a 2ss and would love to have the z28 but i just cant wait that long and i know i would lose my ass if i traded it in when the z came out. i just wish it were coming out at the launch or at least if they said a date when it was coming out.

I really don't see the Z coming out at all with the current economic climate. And if and when it improves, if the price of gas is back up then THAT will keep it from coming out. The days of even appearing to be climately or green unconcious are over for GM. (not that I think they are) They have sold thier soul to the liberal congress. Now they have to at least look like they care about the "agenda".
I think we should get on our knees and thank God that even the SS was ALLOWED to be released and be grateful.

I really don't see the Z coming out at all with the current economic climate. And if and when it improves, if the price of gas is back up then THAT will keep it from coming out. The days of even appearing to be climately or green unconcious are over for GM. (not that I think they are) They have sold thier soul to the liberal congress. Now they have to at least look like they care about the "agenda".
I think we should get on our knees and thank God that even the SS was ALLOWED to be released and be grateful.

I agree. And we should be thankful for GMPP so we can make our own version of a Z and still keep some kind of warranty. And I know the LSA and LS9 crate motors will be available soon.

http://video.lsxtv.com/video_detail.php?mId=5864

Check out what he said at the end about stage kits and how 625 hp is not enough. ;)

I really don't see the Z coming out at all with the current economic climate. And if and when it improves, if the price of gas is back up then THAT will keep it from coming out. The days of even appearing to be climately or green unconcious are over for GM. (not that I think they are) They have sold thier soul to the liberal congress. Now they have to at least look like they care about the "agenda".
I think we should get on our knees and thank God that even the SS was ALLOWED to be released and be grateful.
i agree.

I really don't see the Z coming out at all with the current economic climate. And if and when it improves, if the price of gas is back up then THAT will keep it from coming out. The days of even appearing to be climately or green unconcious are over for GM. (not that I think they are) They have sold thier soul to the liberal congress. Now they have to at least look like they care about the "agenda".
I think we should get on our knees and thank God that even the SS was ALLOWED to be released and be grateful.

I keep thinking the same thing. Sure a Z28 would be nice, but we should just be grateful for even having the same at all, and especially a 426HP SS!

I'm wondering if you can get your GM dealer to install the GMPP hot cam (essentially making the LS3 an LS376/480) would that void the factory warranty? :D

also the paint that is put on the rims give it a little bit of weight compared to a regular polished wheel.
Am I the only one that caught this? You'd save more total weight by taking a leak before you get in the car. :lol:

Some of the most positive payoff weight reductions in a vehicle are the unsprung weight. This also include reducing the mass' distance from the rotational center point.
Pound for pound and ounce for ounce, the most important thing is unsprung rotating mass (i.e. wheels, tires, and brake rotors).

That's followed by sprung rotating mass (rotating assembly, moving parts in the trans, driveshaft, and moving parts in the rear), which is in turn followed by unsprung non-rotating mass (brake calipers, control arms, etc).

Sprung, non-rotating mass (interior stuff, body panels, etc) are last on the list.

And, as Paul said, in the case of rotating mass, whether sprung or unsprung, if you can't reduce weight, it also helps to move weight closer to the axis of rotation.

Am I the only one that caught this? You'd save more total weight by taking a leak before you get in the car. :lol:


Pound for pound and ounce for ounce, the most important thing is unsprung rotating mass (i.e. wheels, tires, and brake rotors).

That's followed by sprung rotating mass (rotating assembly, moving parts in the trans, driveshaft, and moving parts in the rear), which is in turn followed by unsprung non-rotating mass (brake calipers, control arms, etc).

Sprung, non-rotating mass (interior stuff, body panels, etc) are last on the list.

And, as Paul said, in the case of rotating mass, whether sprung or unsprung, if you can't reduce weight, it also helps to move weight closer to the axis of rotation.i know its not alot of weight but every aftermarket WHEEL manufacturer (that i have talked to)has said that the finish does add some weight to it. as little as it may be.