Advice Needed on Fuel set up for 500+ RWHP

Hey guys Your Advice and Your Opinion is Needed.,,
My 95 TA currently has a 383 with approx 9:1 comp, LT Headers, a 2 core Intercooler mounted in the nose of my TA, cc305 cam and a Borla exhaust. My heads and intake are completely stock except for new valve springs to accommodate the cc305 cam.
I am planning on using a 15# pulley on my P1SC Procharger (12 Ribbed Belt setup). I only plan to spin the motor to 5800rpms. My blower will see about 54,000rpms but it does have a redline of 62,000rpms (so my blower is not maxing out and I will probably see around 10 psi on the intake side)
I have an Rebuilt A4 Tranny with a Shift Kit, Vig TC, BM Supercooler and kevlar Clutch/Bands....I know it wont last that long but I plan to keep the car off the Track till I can afford a new Better more stouter Tranny.
Anyways....I was told with this set up I should hit 500-550 REAR wheel HP on my car. I plan on having Bryan at PCMforless or Shalin Patel personally tune the car (Not mail order tuning) I was planning on getting the following to supply fuel to my car:

1. 50# MSD Injectors
2. Walboro 255LPH Intank Fuel Pump (I already have this in my car....It's the High Pressure High Volume pump Model # 340)
3. Mabee get a Adjustable Boost Sensitive Fuel Pressure Regulator.

Would this set up be enough Fuel for 550 Rear Wheel HP?
Is my HP number realistic or am I off by a Lot?

Any and all advice is Greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Claude

Hey Claude

I saw your email this morning. I'll reply here. :)

I think you will be OK although you are approaching the threashold with respect to fuel, based on my experience. The 50's are the right sized injector and I think the HP target is reasonable and achievable.

Should the fuel pressure plummet under boost then as far as I can tell here are the following options in order of price, convenience and affectiveness.

1. get the Racetronic wiring harness, that will help get some extra juice to the pump - about $100 upgrade.
2. boost-a-pump - about $300.
3. External 1000 HP pump - about $300 I think
4. dual intank from Racetronic - about a $400 upgrade.

At this point I think I would give it a go and 'fix' it IF you have a problem. I went with the dual in tank. I was running out of fuel with the Walbro 340M with 15# on a 383 at about 4800 rpms and about 500 rwhp at the time.

Shaun,
Thanks for replying. I really appreciate it.

Did you have any sort of hard wiring to the pump when you had your 340 hooked up?

Did you Fuel Pressure drop off?

Where you using a Boost sensative fuel Pressure Regulator?

Finaly, How reliable is the Dual Intank Set up for Everyday Street use? (I drive my car almost everyday and want something that will be reliable enough to where I can still drive it 450-500 miles weekly ;)

TTT

Does anyone else have any good or bad experience with 50# injectors and 255LPH intank pump they want to share?

At this point I think the Boost A Pump may be the route to go...

A tired pump will cease as soon as you use the boost a pump...


Go with racetronix setup for lt1 and use the GSS340... I received my package today... AWESOME.. .you can always installe the boost a pump later without any problems...

I think you can deal without the boost a pump for 550rwhp or so...

Originally posted by 95 Silver TA
Shaun,
Thanks for replying. I really appreciate it.

Did you have any sort of hard wiring to the pump when you had your 340 hooked up?

Did you Fuel Pressure drop off?

Where you using a Boost sensative fuel Pressure Regulator?

Finaly, How reliable is the Dual Intank Set up for Everyday Street use? (I drive my car almost everyday and want something that will be reliable enough to where I can still drive it 450-500 miles weekly ;)

No extra wiring, i just dropped it in.

Yes, big time. Pressure built from about 50 to 60 and then plunged to 40 at about 8 lbs of boost or so.

I assume it to be street friendly. I specifically bought it so that it would be quit. Not that the rest of the car is not already real loud.

Originally posted by The Highlander
[B

Go with racetronix setup for lt1 and use the GSS340... I received my package today... AWESOME.. .you can always installe the boost a pump later without any problems...

I think you can deal without the boost a pump for 550rwhp or so... [/B]

thank You for replying....

I currently have the GSS340 Walboro Intank Pump without the Racetronics wiring kit. They wanted like 110.00 Shipped just for the wiring harness. I dont know if that is a fair price for a wiring kit that raises voltage to the pump to 1 volt and a few amps. I do know its a nice piece, however 110.00 shipped (mabee not that nice). I think I can just run a 5 dollar 10 gauge wire from my battery to the relay for the pump and Possibly get a .5 volt increase (For only 5 bucks).

Do you see my Point about the wiring harness from RaceTronics or Is that Wiring Harness THAT good?

Is it worth the 110.00 shipped? Will it really make that much of a difference?

RSkrause is using 75# injectors and 3 95's in the super FMU...

He uses... a bosch 255lph and a boost a pump... he pumps out 750rwhp... so I dont see why with the racetronix setup harness you cant reach the 500rwhp mark :confused:

I said the same thing you said now... but, somehow they got great reputation...

I got the setup today... YOu have to see that harnes... is awesome...

Quality is superb... I'd say it is worth it...

It comes with the relay too and it is setup that if you want to put the pump booster its a plug and play stuff...

I know what you mean though... But I'd spend the extra $ on a quality product that is backed up with their excellent costumer support...

Originally posted by The Highlander
I said the same thing you said now... but, somehow they got great reputation...

I got the setup today... YOu have to see that harnes... is awesome...

Quality is superb... I'd say it is worth it...

It comes with the relay too and it is setup that if you want to put the pump booster its a plug and play stuff...

I know what you mean though... But I'd spend the extra $ on a quality product that is backed up with their excellent costumer support...

Cool...I did not know the piece was as good as you are saying.

I think I will give them a call and have them explain the (pump booster Option) I assume they sell that too.

Thanks again Guys...Your responses are Much appreciated!
Claude

The kit comes (the complete pump kit) with everything that can be worn out, so you have a clean and new system for a lot of miles to come...

I saw the harness today and it looks so great that for me it is worth it big time.. I would certeinly buy again from them

:bow: to racetronix for such a good setup

Hi Guys the wiring systems seems to be the ticket to get more voltage to the pump but, have any of you really seen the performance befit from doing this up grade when compared to running your own wiring. I understand the harness is top quality I am not questioning that But, I question the claims from racetronics that there wiring harness will increase the pump volume by 18% - 20% and 1.2 – 1.5 volts vs. a good wiring set up I can make up for about ¼ of the price.:confused: Is there something I am missing? To me the 110 price tag is not worth it….. When I can make up my own … unless racetronics is using magic wiring ? :D

Also does someone have a good picture of there racetronics wiring harness?

thanks,

Jim

If you want something cheaper you can try the Voltblaster.

http://www.ramchargers.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/CategoryDisplay?cgrfnbr=26895&cgmenbr=541&cat1=26890&cat2=26891

This use to be very popular but no one mention this any more. Some think it may damage the optispark, but I don't think there is any proof of this AFAIK. I had bought this 3 yrs back before Racetronix came out with their nice setup, and I have been very happy with this. This is very popular with the GN and other domestic hi-po cars. For me, it started out as a safety factor to make sure I have plenty of juice to my fuel pump.

Originally posted by Maldo
Hi Guys the wiring systems seems to be the ticket to get more voltage to the pump but, have any of you really seen the performance befit from doing this up grade when compared to running your own wiring. I understand the harness is top quality I am not questioning that But, I question the claims from racetronics that there wiring harness will increase the pump volume by 18% - 20% and 1.2 – 1.5 volts vs. a good wiring set up I can make up for about ¼ of the price.:confused: Is there something I am missing? To me the 110 price tag is not worth it….. When I can make up my own … unless racetronics is using magic wiring ? :D

Also does someone have a good picture of there racetronics wiring harness?

thanks,

Jim

Yes you could make up your own if you knew what to use. Jack is just selling it complete for people who cant. Just use a very good 40amp relay and some thick wiring.

First, I would ditch the 2-core. You will have to fabricate a bracket to hold it into place like the one I did for a friend last weekend. It's a LOT easier w/ a 3-core.

I've heard bad things about the 50s. I'm not sure if they have a habit of locking up or if they just don't meet expectations. I've heard they're not the best choice from several people.

Also, I don't think Shalin Patel does tuning anymore...could be wrong, but I thought I read that somewhere this week.

Originally posted by mongse_1
First, I would ditch the 2-core. You will have to fabricate a bracket to hold it into place like the one I did for a friend last weekend. It's a LOT easier w/ a 3-core.

I've heard bad things about the 50s. I'm not sure if they have a habit of locking up or if they just don't meet expectations. I've heard they're not the best choice from several people.

Also, I don't think Shalin Patel does tuning anymore...could be wrong, but I thought I read that somewhere this week.

What are you talking about gettin rid of the 2 core ... it is a very good piece .... i made up the brackets for claudes car and it was very easy check out the link
http://photos.msn.com/viewing/album.aspx?m7A!X9U3q6YzeOp!RYJqTeZ1QZyzFC2!4

Originally posted by mongse_1
First, I would ditch the 2-core. You will have to fabricate a bracket to hold it into place like the one I did for a friend last weekend. It's a LOT easier w/ a 3-core.

I've heard bad things about the 50s. I'm not sure if they have a habit of locking up or if they just don't meet expectations. I've heard they're not the best choice from several people.

Also, I don't think Shalin Patel does tuning anymore...could be wrong, but I thought I read that somewhere this week.

Thanks for the Adivce Broh...But I already have my 2 Core mounted in the Front Nose of my TA and it works better like that than having it under the car (cooler intake temps). If I can find a 3 Core for cheap, I would get it but for now, I will stick with what I currently have.

Actually, Shalin and Bryan Both Told me to use the MSD 50# Injectors, They said they had a lot of luck with tuning on those injectors.

I was more than likely going to go with Bryan anyways cuz he lived a lot closer to me than Shalin. Bryan is only 1 1/2 hour away and Shalin was 3 1/2 hours away.

The ATI 2-core is alright...not as good as the 3-core though and it takes more work to mount than a 3-core. The big problem is finding a 3-core that someone doesn't want half a G for. :)

Oh yeah, the album link didn't work.

Sorry guys i put up the wron link here it is again

http://photos.msn.com/viewing/album.aspx?m7A!X9U3q6YzeOp!RYJqTeZ1QZyzFC2!4KLCn99 WqP0quN84j!SnQk9iYJ2!2*!2K09kaLrWqNBbhldfhn7yxWLcr tvSJsinD*0nCfN5z3I$



Copy and paste into new link to see photos.

Still no work. There's an ending URL tag in there too. I cut it out and it still didn't work. *shrug*

Here, let me give it a try
Try to copy and paste this:

http://photos.msn.com/viewing/album.aspx?m7A!X9U3q6YzeOp!RYJqTeZ1QZyzFC2!4KLCn99 WqP0quN84j!SnQk9iYJ2!2*!2K09kaLrWqNBbhldfhn7yxWLcr tvSJsinD*0nCfN5z3I$


Sorry, Looks like its not working..Trying copying this to a Word Document and then paste it to your browser. It's seem that is the only way this link will work.

Originally posted by Maldo
Hi Guys the wiring systems seems to be the ticket to get more voltage to the pump but, have any of you really seen the performance befit from doing this up grade when compared to running your own wiring. I understand the harness is top quality I am not questioning that But, I question the claims from racetronics that there wiring harness will increase the pump volume by 18% - 20% and 1.2 – 1.5 volts vs. a good wiring set up I can make up for about ¼ of the price.:confused: Is there something I am missing? To me the 110 price tag is not worth it….. When I can make up my own … unless racetronics is using magic wiring ? :D

Also does someone have a good picture of there racetronics wiring harness?

thanks,

Jim

You can modify your own system with basic parts but it is more a question of the reliability and ease of installation with the Racetronix harness (http://www.racetronix.com/product/RX-FLT1-FPK/Dcp_1229bb.jpg).

Lets run through a quick comparison here:

The Racetronix harness plugs into the factory wiring using factory type connectors. (http://www.racetronix.com/product/RX-FLT1-FPK/Dcp_1169a.jpg) vs. having to cut and splice into the factory wiring. Anyone who has had to buy a connector from a GM parts supplier knows that these parts do not come cheap. The LT1 fuel pump connector is proprietary (only used on the LT1 F-Body) which adds to its cost. The female connector is not available as an in-line version from GM so Racetronix has to custom-manufacture one.

The Racetronix harness uses a 40 amp mil. spec. weatherproof relay assembly which will not be affected by moisture or vibration. The relay is mounted under the car to alleviate clutter and extra wires running back and forth between the pump and the engine compartment. (http://www.racetronix.com/product/RX-FLT1-FPK/Dcp_1169a.jpg) This relay assembly is valued in excess of $25.00 alone. (check with Casper’s and other vendors if you wish). A standard open style 30 amp relay can be bought for apx. $2.00 but I would not be caught dead using one on a mission critical vehicle system.

The Racetronix harness is covered in 300F rated nylon loom for added protection. This type of loom is more expensive than the 200F PVC type normally sold at automotive supply houses and stereo shops.

The Racetronix harness uses silver/Teflon and/or cross-linked automotive wire with a high strand count in all areas of the harness where it might be in close proximity to excessive heat, vapors or solvents/gas and vibration. Most automotive supply houses sell PVC jacketed wire with a low strand count which is not very resistant to any of the above adverse items.

The Racetronix harness includes a body ground upgrade kit. This kit comes with two solid brass battery nuts (with acc. taps) and a special 8 gauge grounding cable.

All connections on the Racetronix harness are crimped using proper Delphi crimpers and soldered for fail-proof connections. Heatshrink is used at all wire ends for added protection. This is why Racetronix harnesses are warranted for the life of your vehicle.

Other items included in the kit are silicon grease, 25 wire ties and a spare 20A fuse.

A Racetronix harness can easily be installed in half an hour with 3 basic hand tools.

If you are a D-I-Y sort of person then you can make your own ‘hotwire’ kit. When you factor in the parts, labor and time saved with the Racetronix harness it is a good deal. Most people find that having to get under their car with a soldering iron etc. to splice into the factory harness is not that appealing. On the odd chance that the Racetronix harness was to fail it can be simply unplugged so that the pump can be run off of the factory wiring until you can affect repairs.

Racetronix will be adding a URL to purchase the pump assemblies and harnesses separately.

Jack :cool:
Racetronix

Originally posted by mongse_1
I've heard bad things about the 50s. I'm not sure if they have a habit of locking up or if they just don't meet expectations. I've heard they're not the best choice from several people.

The Delphi / MSD / Holley 50's are successfully being used in a wide array of applications. These injectors are a bit lazy opening compared to smaller injectors and low impedance types. Any tuner with experience using these injectors can easily tune around their idiosyncrasies. I do not recommend pushing these injectors above 70PSI as the magnetics will start to have trouble opening the injector especially if your vehicle voltage is low under WOT. (A volt blaster can help in this area) I do not recommend pushing these injectors beyond 85% duty cycle either. The LT1 PCM has trouble dealing with large injector calibrations at high RPM’s which compounds this problem. It is best to get the Acceleronics impedance converter (http://www.acceleronics.com) and run a properly sized low impedance Siemens injector. (http://www.racetronix.com/Racetronix-Delphi_Injector_Sale-55s.html)

Jack :cool:
Racetronix

Jack Thank you So much for Replying to this thread!I have decided to go with your wiring harness. After some more research I have only heard good things about it. You will get a n email from me as soon as the funds hit my paypal account.

I do hav e a few questions about your "DElphi/MSD/Holley" injectors (Please):
1. I am consufed are these injectors you sell made by Holley? or by MSD or by Delphi? (Why the Three names)
2. How much REAR Wheel HP can these injectors support?
3. Do you currenly have them in stock? (The web site states out of stock)


And Finally How much REAR Wheel HP should your wiring harness support with a a 340 model pump?

I bought the Racetronix kit for my 89 Formula. I have yet to install it but I was literally BLOWN away with the quality and attention to detail!!

If they offered a similar kit for my 98 TSi I would buy it from them in a heart beat. Unfortunitely they don't, but a universal kit is available. I will be ordering another kit from them as soon as the finds become available.

Jack is a great guy, I wish more companies were like his.

Originally posted by 95 Silver TA
Here, let me give it a try
Try to copy and paste this:

http://photos.msn.com/viewing/album.aspx?m7A!X9U3q6YzeOp!RYJqTeZ1QZyzFC2!4KLCn99 WqP0quN84j!SnQk9iYJ2!2*!2K09kaLrWqNBbhldfhn7yxWLcr tvSJsinD*0nCfN5z3I$

Sorry, Looks like its not working..Trying copying this to a Word Document and then paste it to your browser. It's seem that is the only way this link will work.

If you want, send the pics to me. I can host them on my site.

mongse_1:

Sent You mail..

Thanks,
Claude

Got it, I'll try to have them up by this weekend.

Racetronix,

how much for a dual in tank pump set up? I supply the sending unit? I've probably asked before, but I forgot how much you are asking. What kind of deal can you make me for both pump and 42# injectors?

Thanks,

Eric B

Originally posted by Maldo
What are you talking about gettin rid of the 2 core ... it is a very good piece .... i made up the brackets for claudes car and it was very easy check out the link
http://photos.msn.com/viewing/album.aspx?m7A!X9U3q6YzeOp!RYJqTeZ1QZyzFC2!4 MSN photolinks are temporary "floating" URLS they change them constantly to reduce "hosting"

Yeah, I'm realizing that now. Damn MSN and their evil leader.

I did some looking last night on the car about running the dual feeds. The X-over is the easy part, remove and plug. However, there a sensor on the passenger side and the arm on the throttle body that look like they'd be in the way. I'm sure I can relocate the sensor w/o a problem, but the throttle body worries me. I guess I can get a fitting w/ a shorter angle than 90* and it'd work. Any input?

Thanks

Hey Claude, hows it going. I used the Walbro 255lph (not the 340)with the Boost A Pump. I liked the way I could set the voltage to increase dependant on my boost levels. I had my Boost A Pump set to 4 PSI when it would kick in.

I was running small injectors and tons of fuel pressure VIA FMU.. The Walbro pump would drop volume at higher pressures. So I added a NOS 15764 (Accel) inline pump which corrected the volume drop.. I am sure I would have had no problems with the setup without the inline pump, if I went with bigger injectors, and a reprogram, lowering the line pressure... Never got the chance to do that :D

Good luck, and keep me up tp date on your progress.!

Kevin

Jack,
I sent you money thru Paypal just for your Racetronics wiring harness for my 95 Trans Am :D


Kevin,
Thanks for the Advice bro. I am either going to go with a 12# pulley with mabee 42# injectors or I will most likely get 50# injectors and stay with the 15# pulley I have. As I stated before I am going with the Racetronics wiring harness and will stick with my Walboro GSS340 model. (I hope everything holds up)
Kevin man...I cant thank you enough for this sweet Motor you sold me....It is real Bad AZZ!! :D

Thanks,
Claude

Just wanted to thank everyone for thier comments and advise. I did end up ordering the Wiring Harness from Racetronics for my current Walboro 255 (GSS340) pump and ordered some 50# Injectors from Combination Motorsports (These guys have been Really Great to do Business with!)

Thanks again,

Just wanted to let everyone know that I did recieve the Wiring harness from Racetronics and both Maldo (who did the actual install) and myself were thoroughly impressed with the Wiring harness. We had our doubts before I got the wiring harness, just like we stated in the first few posts in this thread, but He and I both thougth it was a great Quality piece after we got our hands on it. Kuddos to Racetronics!! Although I did not measure the voltage with a volt meter, I did notice an immediate difference in fuel pressure when the harness was installed. I would normally get about 36 Psi of fuel at idle and after the harness install, I am now getting 38 Psi at idle. I did run the car for a while and shut it on and off a few time to see if it was a fluke...It was not, the pressure remained at 38psi at idle. So the wiring harness does seem to work. Hopefully it will do the trick with my GSS340 Walboro intank pump when we put the blower back on my car and get it tuned.

Jack and Highlander, you were both right about the harness..Thank you :D

It's the little things that make me happy :)

Racetronics also sends a better chassis ground and Brass connectors for your battery hookup. Well, it works!!
Not only did my Fuel Pressure go up a little but I now notice (after 2 weeks of monitoring) that my voltage is up too. Prior to the hard-wiring and this better chassis grounds and brass connectors, I was getting 13.3 to 13.4 volts on the highway (Scanmaster reading). Now with the better chassis ground and brass battery terminals, I am getting 13.8 to 13.9volts. (And that is with my fans running all the time). I had to wiring my fans to come on all the time, when the key in turned to the on position because after the motor install, the fans would not kick on by themselves. So I would assume if I turned the fans off that would increase voltage even more, mabee to 14 volts on my scanmaster. So this was worth a ~.5 volt increase to my entire car. Since my car seemed to always be running a little less voltage than most F-Bodies I have seen, this was a worth while mod! :D

If you guys read this entire threat, you will see that I was a Non beliver in this little harness from Racetronics and I will be the first to admit that not Only is the hard wiring kit a Great Quality piece but it seems to do the job that they claim it does.

Thanks,
Claude

Well, I figured I would post this just incase someone else was thinking of getting this kit....NOW, I do think the kit is a quality piece that is Well Worth the price!!

i did not read all the posts. i noticed you already have a 255.

i have a 383, afr heads, 50msd injectors, p600b with a 15pd pulley on, 3 core inner cooler.

i got 530rwhp and 530torque. i used an inline 255 and an intake 255. dynoed it and it was perfect. did not run lean at all. (also had ed wright reprogram computer.) plenty of gas. suposely this combination is good for over 700hp.

i just stepped up to a d1x so i have to do some more mods.

hope this helps

How much boost are you seeing with you 15# pulley?
I would assume on a 383 with good heads, you are probably seeing around 10 psi.

Thats great to know about your dyno man....I am shooting for 475 RWHP but will be satisfied with 450 RWHP with stock heads, 9:1 compression 383 with a 2 core intercooler, cc305 cam and long tube headers and custom tuning with 50# MSD. I have a P1SC with a 15# pulley and I was told I should see around 10- 11psi of boost with this set up. Some tuners are telling me that I should see more than 500HP at the wheels but I can't see that much but I sure will be siked if it does put down that much power...

Thanks again for the input,

i was seeing exactly 10pds of boost with the 15lb pulley.

i have 9.2 compression.
comp cams blower cam from internetracers.

i think your dyno est. numbers are very close to waht yo will see depening on your exhaust.

my exhaust made a huge difference. i was running edelbrock headers a catco cat, flowmasters cat back and i got 430rwh.

i gain a 100rwh by going to hooker long tubes, custom 4inch exhaust, (no cats) to two 3 inch pitbull ATR mufflers. the car was all chocked up before.

i just bought a d-1x because i felt the p600b is to small for a stroker motor. im hoping know to see around 20pds of boost on the gauge and over 600rwh.

since my combination was so close to yours. if you have other q's let me know.

Wow...I knew an exhaust good help but Gud Deeme!!

At what Rpms did you make that kinda power 530HP and TQ?

And what are the specs of your cam?

Is it the close to mine: CC305
220/230 114LSA 510/510 lift with 1.5 Rockers

Thanks again bro..
Claude

5800rpm

my cam is very close to yours. i dont have the numbers in front of me.

1.6 comp cam rockers

Cool!! Thanks again for the info bro...
I think My exhaust should be OK for power.

I am running Coated Longtube headers with 2 High flow random cats on a 3inch coated Y-Pipe and a Borla cat back that will be 1/2 to 3/4 the way Open. So I am hoping that should work out well.

Originally posted by 95 Silver TA
It's the little things that make me happy :)

Racetronics also sends a better chassis ground and Brass connectors for your battery hookup. Well, it works!!
Not only did my Fuel Pressure go up a little but I now notice (after 2 weeks of monitoring) that my voltage is up too. Prior to the hard-wiring and this better chassis grounds and brass connectors, I was getting 13.3 to 13.4 volts on the highway (Scanmaster reading). Now with the better chassis ground and brass battery terminals, I am getting 13.8 to 13.9volts. (And that is with my fans running all the time). I had to wiring my fans to come on all the time, when the key in turned to the on position because after the motor install, the fans would not kick on by themselves. So I would assume if I turned the fans off that would increase voltage even more, mabee to 14 volts on my scanmaster. So this was worth a ~.5 volt increase to my entire car. Since my car seemed to always be running a little less voltage than most F-Bodies I have seen, this was a worth while mod! :D

If you guys read this entire threat, you will see that I was a Non beliver in this little harness from Racetronics and I will be the first to admit that not Only is the hard wiring kit a Great Quality piece but it seems to do the job that they claim it does.

Thanks,
Claude

Well, I figured I would post this just incase someone else was thinking of getting this kit....NOW, I do think the kit is a quality piece that is Well Worth the price!!

Good to hear you are happy with the system. :)

The factory battery-to-body ground is marginal at best. The battery-to-engine block ground does little to reduce the voltage drop as the motor sits on rubber mounts. The Racetronix battery- to-body ground upgrade complements the factory wire to reduce the voltage drop in the grounding system thereby benefiting the entire vehicle. This ground upgrade’s benefits increase with the demand on the electrical system.

Jack :cool:
Racetronix

Originally posted by 9SECONDLX
i was seeing exactly 10pds of boost with the 15lb pulley.

i have 9.2 compression.
comp cams blower cam from internetracers.

i think your dyno est. numbers are very close to waht yo will see depening on your exhaust.

my exhaust made a huge difference. i was running edelbrock headers a catco cat, flowmasters cat back and i got 430rwh.

i gain a 100rwh by going to hooker long tubes, custom 4inch exhaust, (no cats) to two 3 inch pitbull ATR mufflers. the car was all chocked up before.


since my combination was so close to yours. if you have other q's let me know.

Something similar happened to me. I had edelbrock headers, stock midpipe, single cat, and flowmaster muffler. This made 478 rwhp. With the installation of flp headers, 2 cat converters, custom single 3-inch exhaust, it climbed to 524 rwhp. It is running rich too, the dyno guy said my motor could make as much as 550 rwhp with the correct tuning. I have since added a solid intake pipe and it feels even stronger.
Anyways, the fuel system is where you don't want to skimp when making this much power. My fuel system has been overhauled from tank to rails. I run a single large external pump with braided lines. This setup has worked out great for me.

Originally posted by Racetronix
Good to hear you are happy with the system. :)

The factory battery-to-body ground is marginal at best. The battery-to-engine block ground does little to reduce the voltage drop as the motor sits on rubber mounts. The Racetronix battery- to-body ground upgrade complements the factory wire to reduce the voltage drop in the grounding system thereby benefiting the entire vehicle. This ground upgrade’s benefits increase with the demand on the electrical system.

Jack :cool:
Racetronix

Jack

i just installed your dual in tank system - very nice piece - but I was wondering about the battery connections. You sent a replacement POS battery post and the two cables I assume are suppose to connect there, and you also have a black grounding wire that is suppose to go to the NEG side.

BUT, my current NEG battery wire precludes attaching the black wire to it so I intended to connect it to the NEG post on the body. Because of THAT I had to connect the two POS wires to the power junction post on the POS battery post on the body as well.

In other words, the three wires are attached at the body NOT directly to the battery.

Is that OK?

Originally posted by 97TA-WS6-Con
Jack

i just installed your dual in tank system - very nice piece - but I was wondering about the battery connections. You sent a replacement POS battery post and the two cables I assume are suppose to connect there, and you also have a black grounding wire that is suppose to go to the NEG side.

BUT, my current NEG battery wire precludes attaching the black wire to it so I intended to connect it to the NEG post on the body. Because of THAT I had to connect the two POS wires to the power junction post on the POS battery post on the body as well.

In other words, the three wires are attached at the body NOT directly to the battery.

Is that OK?

I can't quite follow your install but this is the hookup procedure:

The red and blue wire from the Racetronix harness go to the accessory tap on the positive (+) brass battery terminal. The body ground upgrade cable and the thin black wire from the Racetronix harness go to the accessory tap on the negative (-) brass battery terminal. The chassis ground side of the body ground upgrade cable goes to any large body bolt in within reach.

Apart from this everything stays the same as factory and non of the factory wire locations should change.

Jack :cool:
Racetronix

9SECONDLX


Thank you for responding to my post. I had a few more questions for you please..

What kind of Transmission you were running when you made 530 REAR Wheel HP?
Was it a A4, is so what kind of Torque Convertor where you using?
Did you ever run the car at the Track, what kinda ET and MPH were you getting and what was the race weight?

Thanks,

stock 6spd with an rps clutch.

unfortunately i did not take it to the track. i finished the car when the season was over. (i did drive it on the street) also i want to put a bigger rearend in before i race it at the track. if you run slicks you will surely blow the rear end.

also it was 530 rear torque

Originally posted by 9SECONDLX
stock 6spd with an rps clutch.

unfortunately i did not take it to the track. i finished the car when the season was over. (i did drive it on the street) also i want to put a bigger rearend in before i race it at the track. if you run slicks you will surely blow the rear end.

also it was 530 rear torque


Thanks again bro. Your responses is very much appreciated!
Claude

Originally posted by 9SECONDLX
stock 6spd with an rps clutch.

unfortunately i did not take it to the track. i finished the car when the season was over. (i did drive it on the street) also i want to put a bigger rearend in before i race it at the track. if you run slicks you will surely blow the rear end.

also it was 530 rear torque

Is that clutch holding up? My RPS "turbo" clutch could not hold about 480 rwhp.

no problem at all.

Originally posted by 95 Silver TA
thank You for replying....

I currently have the GSS340 Walboro Intank Pump without the Racetronics wiring kit. They wanted like 110.00 Shipped just for the wiring harness. I dont know if that is a fair price for a wiring kit that raises voltage to the pump to 1 volt and a few amps. I do know its a nice piece, however 110.00 shipped (mabee not that nice). I think I can just run a 5 dollar 10 gauge wire from my battery to the relay for the pump and Possibly get a .5 volt increase (For only 5 bucks).

Do you see my Point about the wiring harness from RaceTronics or Is that Wiring Harness THAT good?

Is it worth the 110.00 shipped? Will it really make that much of a difference?


anyone with any electronic background can build the harness their self. its just using a simple relay and circuit. Use the + wire of the car harness going to the fuel pump to activate the new relay and run a big gauge (-) (+) and mount the relay close to the pump with a relativity short as possible wire. this will fix the voltage drop. Also run a 12gauge wire (fused) to the battery for the relay support.

Any questions just email me

Originally posted by SILVERZZ28
anyone with any electronic background can build the harness their self. its just using a simple relay and circuit. Use the + wire of the car harness going to the fuel pump to activate the new relay and run a big gauge (-) (+) and mount the relay close to the pump with a relativity short as possible wire. this will fix the voltage drop. Also run a 12gauge wire (fused) to the battery for the relay support.

Any questions just email me

Yes, you can build a harness yourself in a couple hours out of off-the-shelf components, crimping and soldering under your car near gas fumes on your back under your car.... OR you can buy the Racetronix system, have everything waterproof with GM factory components and simply plug everything in a matter of minutes.

PS. You don't run the power wire to the battery as the voltage there can be much lower than at the alternator. This is why the Racetronix harness has the weatherproof fuse holder designed to mount on the back of the alternator.

Jack :cool:
Racetronix

Originally posted by Racetronix
Yes, you can build a harness yourself in a couple hours out of off-the-shelf components, crimping and soldering under your car near gas fumes on your back under your car.... OR you can buy the Racetronix system, have everything waterproof with GM factory components and simply plug everything in a matter of minutes.

PS. You don't run the power wire to the battery as the voltage there can be much lower than at the alternator. This is why the Racetronix harness has the weatherproof fuse holder designed to mount on the back of the alternator.

Jack :cool:
Racetronix

Negative my friend!! Same pwr and amps at the battery for this output capacity of 1-2 fuel pumps. If we were dealing with more amps then maybe the question would be there. Also you have a direct 8-10gauge wire coming from the alternator to the battery distribution block.

Thanks

Originally posted by SILVERZZ28
Negative my friend!! Same pwr and amps at the battery for this output capacity of 1-2 fuel pumps. If we were dealing with more amps then maybe the question would be there. Also you have a direct 8-10gauge wire coming from the alternator to the battery distribution block.

Thanks

No, you are in error!
Under high alternator load / charge conditions the voltage drop across the alternator's output and battery terminals can exceed 1.5 volts. This is because the factory alternator wire is not thick enough to handle a 90+ amp charge current without substantial voltage drop. Under WOT conditions the voltage at the alternator can be 14.5 while at the battery it can be 12.5. There are also deficiencies with the factory grounding system that is why we supply a ground upgrade kit with brass battery nuts. We have done our homework in this area now it is time to do yours.

Jack :cool:
Racetronix

Originally posted by Racetronix
No, you are in error!
Under high alternator load / charge conditions the voltage drop across the alternator's output and battery terminals can exceed 1.5 volts. This is because the factory alternator wire is not thick enough to handle a 90+ amp charge current without substantial voltage drop. Under WOT conditions the voltage at the alternator can be 14.5 while at the battery it can be 12.5. There are also deficiencies with the factory grounding system that is why we supply a ground upgrade kit with brass battery nuts. We have done our homework in this area now it is time to do yours.

Jack :cool:
Racetronix


Dunno what car your using to test on but you can't possible think a correct charging system is only going to have 12.5 volts at the battery when the alternator is putting out 14.5. Like I have said. Were not dealing with a unit thats drawing 90amps...:rolleyes:

BTW these cars have more than enough grounds to support plenty. Maybe someone needs the ground upgrade if they are having issues with the orginal grounds.

Originally posted by SILVERZZ28
Dunno what car your using to test on but you can't possible think a correct charging system is only going to have 12.5 volts at the battery when the alternator is putting out 14.5. Like I have said. Were not dealing with a unit thats drawing 90amps...:rolleyes:

BTW these cars have more than enough grounds to support plenty. Maybe someone needs the ground upgrade if they are having issues with the orginal grounds.

Under WOT the vehicle's electrical systems will easily place a high current load on the battery / charging system. Factor in a less than fully charged battery and you have some serious current demands on the alternator. Some N2O systems such as TNT have solenoids which draw 35-40 amps per pair which adds further load to the electrical system. It is quite common for the combined electrical load to exceed 90 amps. Voltage drop across a wire is calculated by squaring the current flowing through it and then multiplying the squared current by the wires resistance (V=I2R). A 10Ga wire with crimped terminals flowing 90+ amps can easily drop 1+ volts across its length. Go place your digital volt meter between your alternator's output and battery + and then start your car. Watch the voltage drop reading on your meter while the alternator starts to charge the battery and float your electrical system draw. You can also run your car and turn on your A/C RW defog, HB headlamps, radio, interior lamps etc. to simulate a high load condition while reving at 2000+ rpm and then go back and measure the voltage being dropped across the alternator's output wire. You can perform this same test on the ground side between the alternator's case and multiple ground points on the chassis.

GM and all other car manufacturers use wiring that is marginally acceptable to reduce production costs and vehicle weight. We are trying to squeeze every last little ounce of electrical juice out of the system in order to boost pump performance. This is no different than your high-end stereo shop installing monster cable to supply large power amplifiers.

I can sit here all day trying to educate you on electrical theory and how to run tests to satisfy your curiosity / disbelief. Bottom line is that I know what I am talking about as I have run these tests and I know how to run them as I have a background in electronics technology. I don't make BS claims either. I would much rather have you spend some time poking around your car learning this things for yourself than sitting here debating what has already been proven.

Jack :cool:
Racetronix

Originally posted by Racetronix
Under WOT the vehicle's electrical systems will easily place a high current load on the battery / charging system. Factor in a less than fully charged battery and you have some serious current demands on the alternator. Some N2O systems such as TNT have solenoids which draw 35-40 amps per pair which adds further load to the electrical system. It is quite common for the combined electrical load to exceed 90 amps. Voltage drop across a wire is calculated by squaring the current flowing through it and then multiplying the squared current by the wires resistance (V=I2R). A 10Ga wire with crimped terminals flowing 90+ amps can easily drop 1+ volts across its length. Go place your digital volt meter between your alternator's output and battery + and then start your car. Watch the voltage drop reading on your meter while the alternator starts to charge the battery and float your electrical system draw. You can also run your car and turn on your A/C RW defog, HB headlamps, radio, interior lamps etc. to simulate a high load condition and then go back and measure the voltage being dropped across the alternator's output wire. You can perform this same test on the ground side between the alternator's case and multiple ground points on the chassis.

GM and all other car manufacturers use wiring that is marginally acceptable to reduce production costs and vehicle weight. We are trying to squeeze every last little ounce of electrical juice out of the system in order to boost pump performance. This is no different than your high-end stereo shop installing monster cable to supply large power amplifiers.

I can sit here all day trying to educate you on electrical theory and how to run tests to satisfy your curiosity / disbelief. Bottom line is that I know what I am talking about as I have run these tests and I know how to run them as I have a background in electronics technology. I don't make BS claims either. I would much rather have you spend some time poking around your car learning this things for yourself than sitting here debating what has already been proven.

Jack :cool:
Racetronix

Your right we could talk about this all day. Also a alternator current will vary low-high voltage with rpms. You are correct on the pulling 90+ amps but last I checked nobody rides around with everything (and I mean everything)going at the same time and running full blast.

BTW No need to educate me!;) I have a associates degree in Electronics and I understand theory very well.

Originally posted by SILVERZZ28
Your right we could talk about this all day. Also a alternator current will vary low-high voltage with rpms. You are correct on the pulling 90+ amps but last I checked nobody rides around with everything (and I mean everything)going at the same time and running full blast.

BTW No need to educate me!;) I have a associates degree in Electronics and I understand theory very well.

So you mean to say someone driving on the HWY just so happens to pull up beside a Mustang would not have:

IGN system draw = 5-7 amps
Headlamps + marker + tail lamps 10-15 amps
Blower fan = 5+ amps
Car Stereo = 3+ amps
Injectors = 5+ amps
Fuel Pump = 7+ amps
Dash Lamps, gauges, ECM, BCM = 10+ amps
Cooling Fans 15-20+ Amps
Trans control, TCC, 2+ Amps
-------------
TOTAL 74 Amps give or take a bit WITHOUT power adders such as N2O or heavy draw items like A/C clutch and RW defogger.

What about the battery charge which we did not factor in? In many cases you will find that you are taking more out than your alternator can put in.
Put a current clamp meter on the battery and alternator cables and check it out for yourself.

Please go back and do your math.

Jack :cool:
Racetronix

Originally posted by Racetronix
So you mean to say someone driving on the HWY just so happens to pull up beside a Mustang would not have:

IGN system draw = 5-7 amps
Headlamps + marker + tail lamps 10-15 amps
Blower fan = 5+ amps
Car Stereo = 3+ amps
Injectors = 5+ amps
Fuel Pump = 7+ amps
Dash Lamps, gauges, ECM, BCM = 10+ amps
Cooling Fans 15-20+ Amps
Trans control, TCC, 2+ Amps
-------------
TOTAL 74 Amps give or take a bit WITHOUT power adders such as N2O or heavy draw items like A/C clutch and RW defogger.

Please go back and do your math.

Jack :cool:
Racetronix

Your picking shiot with the chickens now!!

74 amps isn't 90amps. And your even stretching those #s. Like I have said the fuel pump or pumps don't pull that much. But by all means everyone please attach your connection to the alternator for mr. Jack....

Originally posted by SILVERZZ28
Your picking shiot with the chickens now!!

74 amps isn't 90amps. And your even stretching those #s. Like I have said the fuel pump or pumps don't pull that much. But by all means everyone please attach your connection to the alternator for mr. Jack....

That is right 74 is not 90 but like I said you did not factor in the charge current for the battery either. These items all load the alternator and cause the voltage differential between its output and the battery to widen.

Please take the time to review your basic electronic theory (specifically Ohm’s Law) by picking up a highschool physics book. Place your meter in use instead of your keyboard and then come back and tell me otherwise. It is one thing to know it is another to assume. Facts are facts which you seem to be lacking!

I don't mind a discussion based on facts and properly acquired data but to sit here and argue about stuff you clearly have not investigated yourself is a waste of time.

Jack :cool:
Racetronix

PS. If there are any other electronic techs / engineers that can perhaps help explain what I am trying to get across please feel free to join in.

Originally posted by Racetronix
That is right 74 is not 90 but like I said you did not factor in the charge current for the battery either. These items all load the alternator and cause the voltage differential between its output and the battery to widen.

Please take the time to review your basic electronic theory (specifically Ohm’s Law) by picking up a highschool physics book. Place your meter in use instead of your keyboard and then come back and tell me otherwise. It is one thing to know it is another to assume. Facts are facts which you seem to be lacking!

I don't mind a discussion based on facts and properly acquired data but to sit here and argue about stuff you clearly have not investigated yourself is a waste of time.

Jack :cool:
Racetronix

PS. If there are any other electronic techs / engineers that can perhaps help explain what I am trying to get across please feel free to join in.

Well it looks like your the ONLY electronic tech / engineer here. Thats your problem! Your assuming that I am making this up!!!


BTW your going to get real popular here...:bow:

Originally posted by SILVERZZ28
Well it looks like your the ONLY electronic tech / engineer here. Thats your problem! Your assuming that I am making this up!!!


BTW your going to get real popular here...:bow:

I knew from the get go that you had no intention of trying to learn something form this but rather where trying to antagonize me and waste my time in order to serve your own ill purposes. Your refusal to want to understand, admit and perform these tests shows your true intention for posting in this thread. Perhaps this is why you do not see more vendors getting on the forums providing the level of support I do?

People like you will not deter me from trying to help other people on the forums with their problems and answering their questions based on fact, sound theory and knowledge we have acquired in-house and with the co-operation of our dealers.

I know that others reading this thread are open minded and willing to take the time to learn and run these tests for themselves in order to gain a better understanding of a car's electrical system and its deficiencies. Customers who have bought Racetronix product are a true testament to the quality and performance our products provide. This is why a good percentage of the highest HP LT1 and LS1 cars use Racetronix fuel systems with great success. Many Racetronix customers post praising our products on their own accord. It all comes down to good engineering based on understanding down to the smallest detail and building that into the product. That is what makes a product a winner.

Thank you for your time.

Jack :cool:
Racetronix

PS. Many people on this and other forums have a very sound background in electrical theory and are willing to learn.

Originally posted by Racetronix
I knew from the get go that you had no intention of trying to learn something form this but rather where trying to antagonize me and waste my time in order to serve your own ill purposes. Your refusal to want to understand, admit and perform these tests shows your true intention for posting in this thread. Perhaps this is why you do not see more vendors getting on the forums providing the level of support I do?

People like you will not deter me from trying to help other people on the forums with their problems and answering their questions based on fact, sound theory and knowledge we have acquired in-house and with the co-operation of our dealers.

I know that others reading this thread are open minded and willing to take the time to learn and run these tests for themselves in order to gain a better understanding of a car's electrical system and its deficiencies. Customers who have bought Racetronix product are a true testament to the quality and performance our products provide. This is why a good percentage of the highest HP LT1 and LS1 cars use Racetronix fuel systems with great success. Many Racetronix customers post praising our products on their own accord. It all comes down to good engineering based on understanding down to the smallest detail and building that into the product. That is what makes a product a winner.

Thank you for your time.

Jack :cool:
Racetronix

PS. Many people on this and other forums have a very sound background in electrical theory and are willing to learn.

I don't remember asking you anything. I was trying to help someone else out and you put your .02 in wasting your own time

thanks

Perhaps I replied too soon? I see you edited your original post here where you stated "I was questioning your intelligence"

I was not questioning your intelligence but rather your knowledge and how you came about this knowledge as you doubt my test data. There is a distinct difference between the two.

Peace! ;)

Jack :cool
Racetronix

This was posted by me on page 3 of this Thread (I WAS a NON believer in the quality of this product and its ability to do what Jack said it would do....I was wrong :)
His hardwiring harness kit did help me out. I am not saying hooking up to the battery would or would not have made the same results cuz I am no engineer nor have i preformed any tests but ...What I am saying is that Jack's Product is as EVERY Bit as Good as he says it is.....And My Friend "Maldo" who was knocking this product too was also impress with the quality of the Wiring Kit when I let him see it for himself personally. Please read below and you will see what I am talking about...I did also notice a gain in fuel pressure (36 psi to 38 psi) as stated which is also stated on a another post on page 3.

Originally posted by 95 Silver TA
It's the little things that make me happy :)

Racetronics also sends a better chassis ground and Brass connectors for your battery hookup. Well, it works!!
Not only did my Fuel Pressure go up a little but I now notice (after 2 weeks of monitoring) that my voltage is up too. Prior to the hard-wiring and this better chassis grounds and brass connectors, I was getting 13.3 to 13.4 volts on the highway (Scanmaster reading). Now with the better chassis ground and brass battery terminals, I am getting 13.8 to 13.9volts. (And that is with my fans running all the time). I had to wiring my fans to come on all the time, when the key in turned to the on position because after the motor install, the fans would not kick on by themselves. So I would assume if I turned the fans off that would increase voltage even more, mabee to 14 volts on my scanmaster. So this was worth a ~.5 volt increase to my entire car. Since my car seemed to always be running a little less voltage than most F-Bodies I have seen, this was a worth while mod! :D

If you guys read this entire threat, you will see that I was a Non beliver in this little harness from Racetronics and I will be the first to admit that not Only is the hard wiring kit a Great Quality piece but it seems to do the job that they claim it does.

Thanks,
Claude

Well, I figured I would post this just incase someone else was thinking of getting this kit....NOW, I do think the kit is a quality piece that is Well Worth the price!!

Originally posted by Racetronix
I was not questioning your intelligence but rather your knowledge and how you came about this knowledge as you are doubting my test data. There is a distinct difference between the two.

Peace! ;)

Jack :cool
Racetronix

Lets see if I can get another stab in....:p

Naaaaaa !:rolleyes:

Originally posted by 95 Silver TA
This was posted by me on page 3 of this Thread (I WAS a NON believer in the quality of this product and its ability to do what Jack said it would do....I was wrong :)
His hardwiring harness kit did help me out. I am not saying hooking up to the battery would or would not have made the same results cuz I am no engineer nor have i preformed any tests but ...What I am saying is that Jack's Product is as EVERY Bit as Good as he says it is.....And My Friend "Maldo" who was knocking this product too was also impress with the quality of the Wiring Kit when I let him see it for himself personally. Please read below and you will see what I am talking about...I did also notice a gain in fuel pressure (36 psi to 38 psi) as stated which is also stated on a another post on page 3.

I never doubted his quality either. It looks A+... post..;)