Do we use anything in NASCAR?

This thread got me thinking... (http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/showthread.php?t=653488)

I drive my V6, EFI, FWD, equipped Ford Fusion around town. NASCAR drives a V8, carbed, RWD car (of tomorrow).

What has Ford learned from the NASCAR Fusion that can be applied to the production Fusion? Same with GM, same with Toyota.

Is there ANY manufacturer benefit besides building brand loyalty? Maybe aerodynamics? Is there any technology trickle down?

Duct tape that we now know works at 200mph....:shrug:

Is there ANY manufacturer benefit besides building brand loyalty? Maybe aerodynamics? Is there any technology trickle down?

Basically, the answer is "no". It was a different story twenty years ago, when the profiles of the car had to closely match the production sheetmetal. Even a decade ago, it could be argued that the design of production OHV engines were still being influenced by NASCAR engine development. But today? NASCAR is a joke from the standpoint of technology development.

It's far past time to remake the series, and if that sort of innovation doesn't happen quickly, then NASCAR is going to turn into a spec series for whatever manufacturer has the money to throw at it as a simple marketing exercise.

Basically, the answer is "no". It was a different story twenty years ago, when the profiles of the car had to closely match the production sheetmetal. Even a decade ago, it could be argued that the design of production OHV engines were still being influenced by NASCAR engine development. But today? NASCAR is a joke from the standpoint of technology development.

It's far past time to remake the series, and if that sort of innovation doesn't happen quickly, then NASCAR is going to turn into a spec series for whatever manufacturer has the money to throw at it as a simple marketing exercise.
Is there something to be said for the cars being as equal as possible (at least all operating under the same rules) which should mean that it then becomes more of a driver contest?

I other words, whether the cars bear any significant resemblance to a current production model/engine or not; the series can still be meaningful?

Is there something to be said for the cars being as equal as possible (at least all operating under the same rules) which should mean that it then becomes more of a driver contest?

I other words, whether the cars bear any significant resemblance to a current production model/engine or not; the series can still be meaningful?

Nascar was at least how I percieved was always just as much about the cars as the driver.

Now it's only about the driver and takes all the fun out of it.

Nascar was at least how I percieved was always just as much about the cars as the driver.

Now it's only about the driver and takes all the fun out of it.
I agree as far as what it "was".

As to what is should be/what is "better"...I don't know...I enjoy "driver" centric contests too.

I would suspect, however, that NASCAR's fans would probably be more interested in a race where the "cars" are the focus.

Is there something to be said for the cars being as equal as possible (at least all operating under the same rules) which should mean that it then becomes more of a driver contest?

If this is the goal, then we can all tune into the spec class that runs at my local 3/8-mile track and everyone can save a hell of a lot of money.

I personally have enjoyed the outcome of the NASCAR effort - the Vortec heads on my truck and LT4 heads on my Impala benefited greatly from GM's circle-track efforts, and newer engines (such as the LS7) owe an even larger debt to the work done 10-15 years ago. But with the stagnation in the series being what it is, I don't think we're getting that sort of value now, and haven't been for quite some time.

I dont watch NASCAR races any more because there is nothing stock about the car or that anything on the race car looks like anything from the factory. Only thing I'm interested in is that I hope that the Chevy driver wins the race. Sounds like there isnt going to be any American cars if the big 3 fail.

If this is the goal, then we can all tune into the spec class that runs at my local 3/8-mile track and everyone can save a hell of a lot of money.

I personally have enjoyed the outcome of the NASCAR effort - the Vortec heads on my truck and LT4 heads on my Impala benefited greatly from GM's circle-track efforts, and newer engines (such as the LS7) owe an even larger debt to the work done 10-15 years ago. But with the stagnation in the series being what it is, I don't think we're getting that sort of value now, and haven't been for quite some time.I would have figured more of that tech came out of the Corvette Challenges and American Le Mans series myself. I know zip about that end of the business, though.

Other than making the France clan mad loot, I don't see a point to NASCAR.

Other than making the France clan mad loot, I don't see a point to NASCAR.

+1, I couldn't agree more. Car manufacturers should just bail and let NASCRAP go to a spec engine so Tide, Viagra, and Burger King can battle it out.

I'd find NASCRAP more engaging if they did in fact use factory components. Why not use an LSx, a MOD, or a Hemi capped at 5 liters and 7k RPM coupled to a tremec and whatever live axle rearend is currently used in production under the shell or something stamped out by thier repsective nameplates.

I would have figured more of that tech came out of the Corvette Challenges and American Le Mans series myself. I know zip about that end of the business, though.

High-perf Chevy OHV heads tend to look a whole lot like older Winston Cup heads.

I seriously doubt that the various Corvette teams have the engine development budget that Chevy had for NASCAR. Hell, I suspect that the budget for Cup head cylinder development in certain years would be enough to fund a healthy effort in any given production road-racing series.

There was a time when that effort paid off (the Vortec, LTx, and LSx being prime examples), but I don't think we're getting the same return on investment, and haven't been for quite some time.

+1, I couldn't agree more. Car manufacturers should just bail and let NASCRAP go to a spec engine so Tide, Viagra, and Burger King can battle it out.

I'd find NASCRAP more engaging if they did in fact use factory components. Why not use an LSx, a MOD, or a Hemi capped at 5 liters and 7k RPM coupled to a tremec and whatever live axle rearend is currently used in production under the shell or something stamped out by thier repsective nameplates.

Because then it would actually be fun again?? :(

I admit; I very much the “old days” of NASCAR when it truly was a “stock car” series.

Unfortunately, the family seems to have done everything possible to divorce itself from those days and I suspect we’ll never see their like again; at least not from NASCAR unless there is a massive financial reason for it.

I don’t know what they most recent seasons have been like (in terms of financial success) but it’s difficult to argue with their success overall; they’ve taken it from an almost obscure series (at least obscure to most of the country) and turned it into one of the most if not the most financially successful and well know series out there.

Who knows; maybe someone with a bit of money and a love of racing will start a “new” stock car racing series…wouldn’t that be fun!

How about we all form a new NASCAR.

National
Association
of
Showroom
Car
Racing.

lol.

Lets all go out and buy a new whatever, and take it all to a track together and race against each other for 500 laps.
lol

I think we could market it.. and get sponsors... :think:

I'd find NASCRAP more engaging if they did in fact use factory components. Why not use an LSx, a MOD, or a Hemi capped at 5 liters and 7k RPM coupled to a tremec and whatever live axle rearend is currently used in production under the shell or something stamped out by thier repsective nameplates.

:thumb:

a new series needs to be started altogether.

There is no fun at all in watching a driver only competition. Put cars and the manufacturers back into it. We should be using factory unibodies with roll cages, even if it is slower.

I would watch a series like that every race if it existed. Hell, ive watched more NASCAR on "ESPN classic" than i have live.

The last things that came out of NASCAR that we saw on the street was the bodywork of the '95 Monte Carlo.

Once upon a time, NASCAR had a big influence on cars we can buy. In the last of it's real heyday, the nose on the late 80s Monte Carlo SS, the limited edition (and relatively rare) '86 & '87 GM G-body "Aerocoupes", and the serodynamics of the MN12 Thunderbird. It's also realistic to believe the LTx and Vortec engines tapped alot of ideas that were found on NASCAR engines. But we're talking items that were in development 20 years ago plus.

NASCAR is useless as far as car technology & a joke as far as a marketing tool for car makers. Before, it was nothing more than stickers or a roof profile that separated one brand from another. The Car Of Tomorrow has eliminated that last, weak, final link with any relation to any "stock" car. There hasn't been any reason for an automaker to be involved in NASCAR in years, and today there's even less.

Pontiac pulled out some years ago, and they were dead right. They cited the lack of any usefulness of showcasing Pontiac brands or performance, & Pontiac is the brand that owes it's whole performance image to NASCAR. When GM pulled out of NASCAR in the first half of the 1960s, all those performance pieces became available as "dealer installed" options that made relatively mild Bonnevilles run 3.0 seconds to 60 mph in a Car & Driver magazine, power Pontiac General Manager John Z Delorean's "ringers" he supplied to car testers that got unrealistic numbers when compared to "stock" off the showroom floor GTOs, Bonnevilles, and early Grand Prixs. Later Pontiac Ram Air and Super Duty engines were essentially NASCAR engines with 60's era smog controls and street driveability.

NASCAR is a waste, and I don't watch it. I prefer SCCA races & the Aussie's Supercar series. Even "Drifting" is more interesting to me than NASCAR. At least they still use real cars.

When GM pulled out of NASCAR in the first half of the 1960s, all those performance pieces became available as "dealer installed" options that made relatively mild Bonnevilles run 3.0 seconds to 60 mph in a Car & Driver magazine, power Pontiac General Manager John Z Delorean's "ringers" he supplied to car testers that got unrealistic numbers when compared to "stock" off the showroom floor GTOs, Bonnevilles, and early Grand Prixs. Later Pontiac Ram Air and Super Duty engines were essentially NASCAR engines with 60's era smog controls and street driveability.

That number HAS to be a typo... 3.0 seconds 0-60mph is super rare even today.

Back in the 60's and early 70's, NASCAR speeds were almost the equal of Indy cars- 180-190 MPH on a car that weighed twice as much, with a lot larger frontal area- they were pushing some serious HP- The old mantra, back in the day, was "Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday"

That is where the 429 Ford Tallendagas and Cyclones, the Road Runner Super Bird and lots of others came from- People could see their car manufacturer race, see who could produce the most power, who's engines were the most durable- and buy a car that looked very similar to what was racing and winning on the track-

I would hazard a guess that we still get some racing trickle down- maybe instrumentation, traction control, paddle shifting- maybe even ceramic brakes- some people buy the latest technology not because they need it, just because it is the latest or best- but NASCAR has even less to do with stock cars than it used to-

Nascar = WWE with cars...

it's basically just a drama show

I would hazard a guess that we still get some racing trickle down- maybe instrumentation, traction control, paddle shifting- maybe even ceramic brakes-

As you're probably aware, none of those technologies have come from stock-car racing - or from F1, for that matter. It's the series that use production-based equipment that provide the biggest bang-for-the-buck for enthusiasts.

If I were running a car company, I'd run far, far away from circle-track and open-wheel racing and dump the same money into sports car racing. Look just at the LeMans racing series for an example of the impact that the right rulebook can have on mass-production vehicles.