Honda pulls out of Formula One Racing

They said due to the state of the auto industry they are pulling out.
I wonder if this will start a trend with the other automakers in other racing circuits?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/06/sports/othersports/06grandprix.html?hp

They said due to the state of the auto industry they are pulling out.
I wonder if this will start a trend with the other automakers in other racing circuits?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/06/sports/othersports/06grandprix.html?hp

IMO? Yes.

Only one manufacturer in F1 really benefits from participation "sales wise" and that's Ferrari. Technology wise? All the engine builders get something out of it.

If I were the big three, I'd get out of NASCAR as a group. Race what you build for the showroom.

Wow that is very interesting and sad for F1 fans like me. The Honda Team has been floundering for the past two seasons but I guess I figured they would turn it around. They have pulled out before and come back.

The Japanese brands may still have a strong portfolio and cash on hand but they don't want to end up like the Detroit 3; although they have been there before and rec'd help.

I didn't know Audi was pulling out of the Le Mans racing series. But really there isn't anything left to win or prove for them. I could see GM and the Corvette team following suit.

I think pulling out of NASCAR would be a requirement if they get the bailout money.

They said due to the state of the auto industry they are pulling out.
I wonder if this will start a trend with the other automakers in other racing circuits?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/06/sports/othersports/06grandprix.html?hp

I look forward to seeing Toyota follow Honda's lead. The biggest racing budget in F1 at a reported 600+ million annually and they are a mid pack team after years of trying to impress. What's this I keep hearing about Toyota being the best automotive manufacturer in the world. They should stick to building econoboxes it's the one market segment they can compete in.

One rumor is that Porsche may be interested in buying up what is left of Honda. Didn't see that one coming.

I look forward to seeing Toyota follow Honda's lead. The biggest racing budget in F1 at a reported 600+ million annually and they are a mid pack team after years of trying to impress. What's this I keep hearing about Toyota being the best automotive manufacturer in the world. They should stick to building econoboxes it's the one market segment they can compete in.

One rumor is that Porsche may be interested in buying up what is left of Honda. Didn't see that one coming.
Like Detroit iron has done so much better in F1???

So...anybody who doesn't win nearly 100% of the time shouldn't bother?

If everyone almost always knew who/what manufacturer was going to win what would be the point of "racing"...it would really be nothing more than a parade.

Competition is the life-blood of most worthwhile things; including the automotive business and automobile racing; "mid pack" teams are at least as important to racing as the winners.

If the big three get out of NASCAR I hope we do a Super V8 type racing in the future. I love watch that stuff from Oz.

Like Detroit iron has done so much better in F1???

So...anybody who doesn't win nearly 100% of the time shouldn't bother?

If everyone almost always knew who/what manufacturer was going to win what would be the point of "racing"...it would really be nothing more than a parade.

Competition is the life-blood of most worthwhile things; including the automotive business and automobile racing; "mid pack" teams are at least as important to racing as the winners.

Robert your bias is showing again. Where in his response did he mention Detroit iron and F1?

The facts show that Toyota spends a lot in F1 and hasn't gotten the results even they conservatively wanted yet. Their ROI in NASCAR is almost not even comparable.

F1 racing is just plain silly - it's expensive, but the rulebook is written in such a way as to minimize the amount of learning that can be applied to production cars.

If teams are going to blow $100M+ each year, I'd rather that they spend it on non-metallic engine components, forced induction, active aerodynamics, active suspension, and torque vectoring. As it stands now, all that money creates an amazingly ugly carbon-fiber go-cart that are actually less advanced than the cars in the parking lot in many aspects.

In short - kudos to Honda. Hopefully they can invest their motorsports dollars in a way that yields better production cars.

As it stands now, all that money creates an amazingly ugly carbon-fiber go-cart...

I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking that. F1 cars have gotten uglier and uglier seemingly each passing year.

Manufacturers come and go in F1 depending on their corporate mood/financial state at the time. One thing is for certain, F1 is a lot of dough to fork out for a manufacturer... and that's even before the first race is run.

IMO, Honda, have shown tact and left the circus at the right time - while the automotive world is in a recession. They will probably return at a later date... as history has shown.

I wouldn't blame Toyota if they, too, choose to abandon F1. They've done OK as far as results go, so it wouldn't be seen as a failure on their part if they bowed out now. At least the next time Toyota will have the necessary experience to relaunch at a later time. All is not lost.

Honda is using the current state of the auto industry as an excuse. They haven't been competitive for some time and if it wasn't for Force India, would be at the bottom of F1. With the new engine requirements for 2009, they were going to have to invest a lot of money in improving their car, and possible hire a new driver (although I saw now problem with continuing with Barrichello). That said, things didn't look too rosy for Honda's 2009 season in F1 anyway and thus saving over $100M that would've basically been thrown at the Honda F1 team, they look good to the bean-counters.

However, I have heard no mention of Honda moving out of other racing series. Keep in mind they are the engine supplier to Indycar as well as several other series. If Honda pulls out there as well, then I'll start believing the excuse that the state of the industry has forced this. Otherwise, I'll keep believing it was because their cars sucked in F1. :p

If teams are going to blow $100M+ each year, I'd rather that they spend it on non-metallic engine components, forced induction, active aerodynamics, active suspension, and torque vectoring. As it stands now, all that money creates an amazingly ugly carbon-fiber go-cart that are actually less advanced than the cars in the parking lot in many aspects.


Eric, where have you been this century? If a team only spends $100M in F1 these days it's only to pay some of the top line drivers. Some of the top teams are spending upwards of $300M a year.

And I agree with you, it's a total waste of money and not a great spectacle anymore... certainly not like it once was.

I look forward to seeing Toyota follow Honda's lead. The biggest racing budget in F1 at a reported 600+ million annually and they are a mid pack team after years of trying to impress. What's this I keep hearing about Toyota being the best automotive manufacturer in the world. They should stick to building econoboxes it's the one market segment they can compete in.

One rumor is that Porsche may be interested in buying up what is left of Honda. Didn't see that one coming.
Toyota has already said they are cutting back on testing of their 2009 package. I wouldn't be surprised to see them drop out either, however they showed improvement towards the end of last season and they have one of the top young drivers in Timo Glock. Toyota F1 is in less of a bind than Honda is, so they just may hold out and try to ride through this economic downturn.

F1 may not be big here in the US, but it is huge everywhere else.

Like Detroit iron has done so much better in F1???

So...anybody who doesn't win nearly 100% of the time shouldn't bother?

If everyone almost always knew who/what manufacturer was going to win what would be the point of "racing"...it would really be nothing more than a parade.

Competition is the life-blood of most worthwhile things; including the automotive business and automobile racing; "mid pack" teams are at least as important to racing as the winners.

I don't recall suggesting that Detroit has done better or worse for that matter compared to Toyota in F1. You just brought that up. You are the one changing the topic. My point was simple: Toyota has achieved next to nothing in F1 despite the size of the bat they swing and aren't doing themselves any favors by remaining there after nearly a decade of striking out. BTW Ford has had more success in F1 than Toyota ever has but who's keeping score....oh, apparently you are.

Who said that that everyone almost always knows who or what is going to win in F1? Who said that by Honda pulling out that was going to happen? Who said "mid pack" teams aren't important?

Why do you keep coming to this site and beating your chest constantly? Are you compensating for something at home? Now I'm speculating pretty stupid right?

Honda for all there engineering and automotive prowess, and Toyota to a larger extent are a joke in the world of F1. Just like your beloved GT-R is in the world of credible supercars. Yes I just changed the topic to include the turd you feel compelled to get in bed with every single day I come to this GM, specifically Camaro centric web site.

Now if you would like to address the ramifications of Honda pulling out of F1 without putting words in my mouth or jumping to speculative conclusions your welcome to.

Honda spends $200 million on the team. They were looking for a buyer, but none was found so far, thus they're just pulling out.

I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking that. F1 cars have gotten uglier and uglier seemingly each passing year.

Next year with smaller more narrow rear wings and larger wider front wings they will look even worse.

Manufacturers come and go in F1 depending on their corporate mood/financial state at the time. One thing is for certain, F1 is a lot of dough to fork out for a manufacturer... and that's even before the first race is run.

IMO, Honda, have shown tact and left the circus at the right time - while the automotive world is in a recession. They will probably return at a later date... as history has shown.

I wouldn't blame Toyota if they, too, choose to abandon F1. They've done OK as far as results go, so it wouldn't be seen as a failure on their part if they bowed out now. At least the next time Toyota will have the necessary experience to relaunch at a later time. All is not lost.

Toyota may have done OK in the eyes of a spectator or a fan of the sport but when you consider the size of their budget far and away larger than anyone else in F1, in the eyes of the Toyota management team they have been nothing more than a miserable disaster. After nearly a decade in F1 Toyota fully expected to be dominating and winning championships by now. Not hoping to get lucky occasionally and make it onto the podium.

Honda is using the current state of the auto industry as an excuse. They haven't been competitive for some time and if it wasn't for Force India, would be at the bottom of F1. With the new engine requirements for 2009, they were going to have to invest a lot of money in improving their car, and possible hire a new driver (although I saw now problem with continuing with Barrichello). That said, things didn't look too rosy for Honda's 2009 season in F1 anyway and thus saving over $100M that would've basically been thrown at the Honda F1 team, they look good to the bean-counters.

However, I have heard no mention of Honda moving out of other racing series. Keep in mind they are the engine supplier to Indycar as well as several other series. If Honda pulls out there as well, then I'll start believing the excuse that the state of the industry has forced this. Otherwise, I'll keep believing it was because their cars sucked in F1. :p

Your forgetting Ross Brawn. The 2009 Honda team was expected to make a big jump in performance with him driving development of the new car from it's inception. Brawn does wonders everywhere he goes. Ferrari's turnaround is a direct result of his hard work coupled with a great driver.

Except that Toyota has spent more than anyone else in F1 not to barely make the podium occasionally but to win regularly. It might seem like they have done OK from a spectator viewpoint but from a Toyota management perspective they have failed miserably.

Toyota has already said they are cutting back on testing of their 2009 package. I wouldn't be surprised to see them drop out either, however they showed improvement towards the end of last season and they have one of the top young drivers in Timo Glock. Toyota F1 is in less of a bind than Honda is, so they just may hold out and try to ride through this economic downturn.

F1 may not be big here in the US, but it is huge everywhere else.

I agree. If anyone has the funds to ride out the storm it's Toyota. I'm just not sure they will ever get it right though. Obviously throwing money at the team hasn't worked despite the biggest budget by far in F1. I think they need to hire the right people and let them run the show more instead of pulling all the strings as closely as they have been but that isn't a part of their culture and and thus a huge leap of faith for them to make if they ever do.

:)Like Detroit iron has done so much better in F1???

.

Mmmm, Ford Cosworth engines, Repco engine based on the Olds aluminum block originally developed for the Olds F-85 used in the Brabhams... cough, cough;)

There is some world champinships in F1 there Robert....:yes:

Next year with smaller more narrow rear wings and larger wider front wings they will look even worse.Actually they'll look more like lawnmowers than gokarts. :p

Mmmm, Ford Cosworth engines, Repco engine based on the Olds aluminum block originally developed for the Olds F-85 used in the Brabhams... cough, cough;)But Ford Cosworth is British. :p

I Bernie keeps being his obstinate self, there will be less and less F1 races. At least Indy sent him packing...

If he keeps up is ways it will be a series run in China, Japan, and the Middle East.

Honda spends $200 million on the team. They were looking for a buyer, but none was found so far, thus they're just pulling out.

Since announcing they are withdrawing from F1 they have already received 3 legitimate offers for a buyout. This is directly from the mouth of Nick Fry. That's in a 12 hour window.

Actually they'll look more like lawnmowers than gokarts. :p

Yeah but really, really fast mowers. 1,000,000 blades cut per minute or 1,000,000 BPM.

But Ford Cosworth is British. :p

The checks were written in Dearborn... SO I'll call it a collaborative Anglo-American deal...:cool:

Winning Indy was part of the underlying purpose in the project. Indy used to be part of the F1 season and even though Indy was dropped from the F1 season after 1960, killing 2 birds with one stone was a factor.

I Bernie keeps being his obstinate self, there will be less and less F1 races. At least Indy sent him packing...

If he keeps up is ways it will be a series run in China, Japan, and the Middle East.

He's following the money. Sponsorship money. It makes business sense. Not that I like it.

Robert your bias is showing again. Where in his response did he mention Detroit iron and F1?

The facts show that Toyota spends a lot in F1 and hasn't gotten the results even they conservatively wanted yet. Their ROI in NASCAR is almost not even comparable.
Are you saying his hope for Toyota to drop out isn't based on bias?

For anyone who loves F1; why would you rejoice at any particular make dropping out and/or wishing specifically for another make to drop out?

If I were the big three, I'd get out of NASCAR as a group. Race what you build for the showroom.

Agreed 100% with the COTY or whatevcer its called they can still race with the Tidemobile and Viagraster

Keep in mind they are the engine supplier to Indycar as well as several other series. If Honda pulls out there as well, then I'll start believing the excuse that the state of the industry has forced this. Otherwise, I'll keep believing it was because their cars sucked in F1. :p

I don't think you will see them pull out of IndyCar since they are the only supplier, so no competition, nothing to make them do further R&D...until Audi comes in 2011 :devil: Maybe Porsche too

Are you saying his hope for Toyota to drop out isn't based on bias?

For anyone who loves F1; why would you rejoice at any particular make dropping out and/or wishing specifically for another make to drop out?

First off everyone has a bias towards one thing or another. It what all decisions are based on where more than one option is available.

Second the exiting of Toyota from F1 is cause for rejoicing (at least for myself) because it means someone else can step in take over the team already established as far as chassis and drivetrain and have a go at it from different direction hopefully with better results thus better racing and more diversity in the results. Toyota has done little to improve over the years except throw more and more money at their lack of results. You can even argue that they have hurt the sport with their continued involvement. Actions like purposefully placing your cars on the grid with nothing but vapors in the tank for the sole purpose of stealing camera time at the front of the grid for 8 whopping laps to make your sponsors feel their money is well spent while you had no hope of finishing anywhere near the top 8 at the detriment to the cars behind you that were in fact trying to win as opposed to pulling off a publicity stunt. Does a "Trulli train" mean anything to you? Heck if Toyota could have built a better car this year then Maybe Timo Glock could have held of Hamilton in the last two laps of the this years Brazilian GP instead of being passed on the next to last turn thus finishing a mere 3 seconds behind him and inadvertently helping Hamilton win his first Drivers championship. How is that for bias. Do you want me to continue?

Heck if Toyota could have built a better car this year then Maybe Timo Glock could have held of Hamilton in the last two laps of the this years Brazilian GP instead of being passed on the next to last turn thus finishing a mere 3 seconds behind him and inadvertently helping Hamilton win his first Drivers championship.:rolleyes:
Glock was running dry tires in the rain, that's why Hamilton passed him. The quality of the car had nothing to do with it.

P.S. I agree with you on Trulli. All he can do is qualify well, but come race time he just holds everyone else up. Why that guy still has an F1 ride is beyond me. :p

:rolleyes:
Glock was running dry tires in the rain, that's why Hamilton passed him. The quality of the car had nothing to do with it.

P.S. I agree with you on Trulli. All he can do is qualify well, but come race time he just holds everyone else up. Why that guy still has an F1 ride is beyond me. :p

I agree that dry tire wet weather combo is how Hamilton was able to make the pass but what I'm getting at is if the Toyota had more in it during the race and had been able to put as little a 5 more seconds between Glock and Hamilton over the course of the previous 50+ laps then Hamilton even with his advantage as the rain fell would not have been able to close the gap and make the pass in time.

Overall it was a heck of a race with multiple variables impacting all facets of the outcome.

Are you saying his hope for Toyota to drop out isn't based on bias?

For anyone who loves F1; why would you rejoice at any particular make dropping out and/or wishing specifically for another make to drop out?

Well he seemed to explain that Toyota hasn't done much for its money and that's largely true. If he wants them out of F1 then that’s his opinion and he entitled to it. I don’t share that opinion and hope Toyota does stay especially now in the wake of Honda’s decision.

But throwing out there that Detroit Iron can't do any better when none of the brands currently compete is either trolling or ignorance of the topic. For your sake I don't believe it's the latter.

Well he seemed to explain that Toyota hasn't done much for its money and that's largely true. If he wants them out of F1 then that’s his opinion and he entitled to it. I don’t share that opinion and hope Toyota does stay especially now in the wake of Honda’s decision.

But throwing out there that Detroit Iron can't do any better when none of the brands currently compete is either trolling or ignorance of the topic. For your sake I don't believe it's the latter.
Maybe I did take it the wrong way - it just struck me as odd that he seem so glad that Honda was out and was hoping Toyota would follow; the obvious connection between the two companies are that they are both Japan-based.

But you are right; I don't claim to be a and F1 expert by any means and of late, have only watched a race here and there...the last Europe based race I saw race I saw in person was Monte Carlo in '77 and in the U.S. I went to Long Beach in '81.

That aside, what U.S. nameplate has ever had much success in F1? American driers sure but what American manufacturer?

Maybe I did take it the wrong way - it just struck me as odd that he seem so glad that Honda was out and was hoping Toyota would follow; the obvious connection between the two companies are that they are both Japan-based.

But you are right; I don't claim to be a and F1 expert by any means and of late, have only watched a race here and there...the last Europe based race I saw race I saw in person was Monte Carlo in '77 and in the U.S. I went to Long Beach in '81.

That aside, what U.S. nameplate has ever had much success in F1? American driers sure but what American manufacturer?


I made no mention of glee that Honda was leaving F1 but rather suggested that Toyota follow their lead. Yes there is satisfaction with regards to Toyota. Your doing it again Robert. You know the whole speculation thing.

Regarding the success of an American manufacturer in the F1 please do some homework. Ford under the Cosworth banner or not has won championships. In F1. Should I mention Le Mans as well and a little Henry/ Enzo rivalry that left Ferrari with plenty of egg on it's face.

Here's some speculation on my part and take it for what it's worth. Why do you get so much satisfaction from putting down your own fellow American industries and propping up those of a foreign competitor? Competition is great it makes us all better but which flag do you stand in front of or rather behind?

BTW your welcome to address me directly instead of through quoting things others have said in relation to what I have said.

I made no mention of glee that Honda was leaving F1 but rather suggested that Toyota follow their lead. Yes there is satisfaction with regards to Toyota. Your doing it again Robert. You know the whole speculation thing.
I didn’t suggest “glee”.

You did say "I look forward to seeing Toyota follow Honda’s lead" Which seemed to indicate to me that you were at least somewhat pleased Honda had pulled out. Since I apparently misinterpreted your feelings about Honda; how do you feel about Honda’s withdraw; are you pleased, disappointed or simply don’t care one way or the other?


Regarding the success of an American manufacturer in the F1 please do some homework. Ford under the Cosworth banner or not has won championships. In F1. Should I mention Le Mans as well and a little Henry/ Enzo rivalry that left Ferrari with plenty of egg on it's face.
I wasn’t really thinking of that far back but point taken.

As to Cosworth; I realize that Ford and Cosworth have had a long association but I wouldn’t consider “Ford” and “Cosworth” interchangeable names in terms of “who” gets credit for Cosworth's success in F1.


Here's some speculation on my part and take it for what it's worth. Why do you get so much satisfaction from putting down your own fellow American industries and propping up those of a foreign competitor? Competition is great it makes us all better but which flag do you stand in front of or rather behind?
I stand behind the flag I’ve bled for.


BTW your welcome to address me directly instead of through quoting things others have said in relation to what I have said.
I’ve replied to specific questions posed by 99SilverSS…I don’t see your problem with that. :shrug:

Only one American born driver has ever won the F1 WC, Phil Hill in '61 for Ferrari. Mario has also won but as an Italian-American in '78 and is the last American to win a GP. Dan Gurney won 4 times and I think only his Eagle and Penske have ever won a race as an American constructor.

As for engines Ford-Cosworth I think has won the second most GPs behind Ferrari.

But when talking about F1 and the US I always like to bring up a story I heard a while back that the 1991 F1 race at Phoenix was out-attended by a local ostrich festival the same day. :lol:

Only one American born driver has ever won the F1 WC, Phil Hill in '61 for Ferrari. Mario has also won but as an Italian-American in '78 and is the last American to win a GP. Dan Gurney won 4 times and I think only his Eagle and Penske have ever won a race as an American constructor.

As for engines Ford-Cosworth I think has won the second most GPs behind Ferrari.

But when talking about F1 and the US I always like to bring up a story I heard a while back that the 1991 F1 race at Phoenix was out-attended by a local ostrich festival the same day. :lol:FWIW, Gurney's AAR Eagle was powered by a British built Weslake V12. ;)

I didn’t suggest “glee”.

You did say "I look forward to seeing Toyota follow Honda’s lead" Which seemed to indicate to me that you were at least somewhat pleased Honda had pulled out. Since I apparently misinterpreted your feelings about Honda; how do you feel about Honda’s withdraw; are you pleased, disappointed or simply don’t care one way or the other?

Not pleased or indifferent maybe a little disappointed. For 2009 they had it seems put together some of the right people to make a difference and progress up the scale. Would have like to seen that play out and we still might with the correct buyer.



I wasn’t really thinking of that far back but point taken.

As to Cosworth; I realize that Ford and Cosworth have had a long association but I wouldn’t consider “Ford” and “Cosworth” interchangeable names in terms of “who” gets credit for Cosworth's success in F1.

Perhaps not but IMO you can still tie much more success in F1 to the Ford name than the Toyota name since Toyota has achieved very, very little.


I stand behind the flag I’ve bled for.

I assume you are referring to our flag and I will never make mention of this again. You have the utmost respect for this alone.:usa:



I’ve replied to specific questions posed by 99SilverSS…I don’t see your problem with that. :shrug:

Just felt like you were commenting by proxy with regards to items I brought up. Communication through the net can be difficult to interpret at times.

Only one American born driver has ever won the F1 WC, Phil Hill in '61 for Ferrari. Mario has also won but as an Italian-American in '78 and is the last American to win a GP. Dan Gurney won 4 times and I think only his Eagle and Penske have ever won a race as an American constructor.

As for engines Ford-Cosworth I think has won the second most GPs behind Ferrari.

But when talking about F1 and the US I always like to bring up a story I heard a while back that the 1991 F1 race at Phoenix was out-attended by a local ostrich festival the same day. :lol:

FWIW, Gurney's AAR Eagle was powered by a British built Weslake V12. ;)


Wow we have some real F1 historians on board. I only go back 18 or so years though I am familiar with the broader strokes of F1 history. Just not all the details. Either of you guys attend any of the Indianapolis GP's?

Toyota may have done OK in the eyes of a spectator or a fan of the sport but when you consider the size of their budget far and away larger than anyone else in F1, in the eyes of the Toyota management team they have been nothing more than a miserable disaster. After nearly a decade in F1 Toyota fully expected to be dominating and winning championships by now. Not hoping to get lucky occasionally and make it onto the podium.


Well if Toyota is spending $600M per year, they haven't done too badly compared to Honda...


Japan's number two carmaker is seeking to cut costs to combat the global economic crisis and concluded it would no longer bankroll the Formula One team and its estimated annual budget of $500 million.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081205/bs_nm/us_autos_6

The huge annual budget doesn't automatically gain you championships... but it does allow a focused team to better harness the technologies available and conduct the necessary tests.

F1 has always had the problem of cost containment. That's why manufacturers come and go as the economy ebbs and flows.

Wow we have some real F1 historians on board. I only go back 18 or so years though I am familiar with the broader strokes of F1 history. Just not all the details. Either of you guys attend any of the Indianapolis GP's?

I'm just a racing fan in general and try to keep up with many forms of motorsport. I attended the 2003 USGP in the rain. And back when I lived in he Detroit area I saw F1 race downtown in the early 80's. Being close to Indy I've made the trip to see the 500 4 times and the US Nationals twice.

The only reason I remember the American F1 info is because there is so little of it. I don't know how many championships Renault or Auto Union won without looking it up. But I'm a fan and have an interest in the sport. The internet has helped a lot. I think seeing them in person like I have on a few occasions helps because they are simply amazing!

Well if Toyota is spending $600M per year, they haven't done too badly compared to Honda...



The huge annual budget doesn't automatically gain you championships... but it does allow a focused team to better harness the technologies available and conduct the necessary tests.

F1 has always had the problem of cost containment. That's why manufacturers come and go as the economy ebbs and flows.

Geez. Didn't know Honda was spending that much on F1. How much of that 500 mil is part of Brawn's salary. :lol:

I'm just a racing fan in general and try to keep up with many forms of motorsport. I attended the 2003 USGP in the rain. And back when I lived in he Detroit area I saw F1 race downtown in the early 80's. Being close to Indy I've made the trip to see the 500 4 times and the US Nationals twice.

The only reason I remember the American F1 info is because there is so little of it. I don't know how many championships Renault or Auto Union won without looking it up. But I'm a fan and have an interest in the sport. The internet has helped a lot. I think seeing them in person like I have on a few occasions helps because they are simply amazing!

I attended 3 USGP's in row the last being the year of the 6 car grid when the Michelin shod cars couldn't take the banking without serious risk of blowing out their tires. Always a good time.

Geez. Didn't know Honda was spending that much on F1. How much of that 500 mil is part of Brawn's salary. :lol:

Like I said, it's immaterial what each manufacturer spends. Whatever money they spend, they'll have very few dollars left over.

I'm sure that even the weakest team in the field would have some positive outlook on the season ahead. But even a largely unsuccessful season would be an expensive exercise - driver crashes another car; engine/transmission self destructs again; electronics failure of some description; major sponsor pulls out mid-season; engineer/team manager resigns... all costs the team squillons - it's a tough business in any language. It's bloody expensive just to participate and I'm sure the weakest team in F1 would outspend the best team in Indycar by a fair margin.

Year after year F1 officialdom attempts to reign in overall costs but the teams are forever finding new ways to spend the available money.

Agree on all racing now adays.

I think grassroots racing should make a big comeback.

Nascar should be stock cars with stock based engines period. It would make the sport more fun and I also think you'd see more Mustangs, Camaros, etc...

I think pulling out of NASCAR would be a requirement if they get the bailout money.

I think it SHOULD be mandatory! F' NASCAR!! They screwed it up so bad. I as many have lost interest in the cars. and the drivers.

all three should pull out since this COT and the rules make it a none point..but hey let Toyota be the only company in the race..so how far that gets with the die hard NASCAR fans...

its funny when i think of redneck nascar fans drinking beer cheering GO YOTA!!!!!!!! YEAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAAAA

its funny when i think of redneck nascar fans drinking beer cheering GO YOTA!!!!!!!! YEAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAAAA

Yea well Toyota is more American every day

^ oh yea thats right.. toyota is now moving their headquarters to the US and shutting down all japanese operations in order to employ more americans.

Honda is also pulling out of AMA Superbike...

http://motorcycledaily.com/13december08_noroadrace.htm

Honda maintains it is withdrawing because of tough economic times: "the current economic conditions led us to take this action," plausible given the factory's recent withdrawal from Formula One auto racing.

Honda is also pulling out of AMA Superbike...

Yikes! Didn't see that one coming, as I suspect that AMA SB is relatively cheap by comparison. I suspect that this has more to do with other, non-financial issues:

It may be a factor, but an unmentioned element is the conflict with DMG. The proposed rules changed the game too much for the OEMs' liking, so in September, the Japanese manufacturers announced their own Superbike series, US Superbike. The USSB, an offshoot of the Motorcycle Industry Council, still has yet to announce any race dates or venues for 2009.

So, will Honda still be the headline sponsor of the Daytona 200?