Michelin re-invents the wheel

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/12/01/michelin-partners-with-chinese-firm-to-create-active-wheel-syste/

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autobloggreen.com/media/2008/12/michelin-active-wheel_019.jpg

Neato.

ugly

And here I was thinking it was going to be a "Twheel" repost. :p So is this just a wheel with a motor behind it, effectively doing away with an engine mounted under the hood of a car?

Very cool.

I just don't like that they are working with China. I'm afraid that the US will be technology follower and not a leader in the next decade :(

And here I was thinking it was going to be a "Twheel" repost. :p So is this just a wheel with a motor behind it, effectively doing away with an engine mounted under the hood of a car?

I don't think so. It's just a wheel with suspension inside it.

I don't think so. It's just a wheel with suspension inside it.

Two motors, one to propel the car and another for the integrated suspension system, sit inside the hub and allow the entire drivetrain to fit neatly enclosed at each corner.


That's why I asked.

It has what, an inch of suspension travel?

I understand this is really cool and all (as it is) but fundamentally I look at this and just get nervous about having all those forces in such a small space.

Also tech like this is still waaaaaay off. I mean, Bose put out linear actuated suspension technology how long ago? And we still dont have it today.

I just don't like that they are working with China. I'm afraid that the US will be technology follower and not a leader in the next decade :(

Michelin is not an American company; why would they care?

That's why I asked.

I scanned the article, but not carefully enough.

That motor looks rather small, I wonder what output it's good for.

considering the weight savings vs the standard car if you were to get rid of all the drivetrain, you could probably make a car under a ton. rather than what we have now at 1.5 to 2 tons. There are issues though... like.. for instance.. balancing the wheel, putting a new tire on. you know the little things. Also it is more parts per corner really. So if one motor goes out, the car is effectively non-drivable... Definitely not something that is going to be used anytime soon. But I would guess this would be an electric car type of thing.. And I have my own opinions on the whole "everyone should drive an electric car". I think it will go the say of the Tweel or whatever that was. Looked nice, but became impractical for use on automobiles

I understand this is really cool and all (as it is) but fundamentally I look at this and just get nervous about having all those forces in such a small space.

That, and the environment inside a wheel is not exactly friendly to electronics and electrical components ... water, salt, dirt, heat, virtually undamped vibrations and road forces. Plus it's all hanging out there as unsprung weight.

Very cool.

I just don't like that they are working with China. I'm afraid that the US will be technology follower and not a leader in the next decade :(

Technology is an extremely broad term. Are you talking automotive technology? Home Electronics technology? Military applicable technology? Everything?

So if one motor goes out, the car is effectively non-drivable...

Why?

We have one motor now and if it goes out the car is also non-drivable.

Hard to guess how reliable these will be.

You could say the same thing about hybrids. If the electric motor or tranny dies the car is undrivable no?

Why?

We have one motor now and if it goes out the car is also non-drivable.

Hard to guess how reliable these will be.

You could say the same thing about hybrids. If the electric motor or tranny dies the car is undrivable no?


That is true. I was looking more at the cost. Not only that but the chances of them becoming damaged and not working over the standard components we have in cars today, and how easily it may be to fix in both cost and time.
With 4 drivetrains, the chances of failure increase at least twice over, PLUS the extra supporting electronics needed to accomplish all 4 wheels turning at the same time. It is lot more complicated really than what we have now I would think. for the most part. that excludes the AWD cars, but I am sure that even those are easier to set up than that would be.

considering the weight savings vs the standard car if you were to get rid of all the drivetrain, you could probably make a car under a ton. rather than what we have now at 1.5 to 2 tons.

The drivetrain on a modern V8 car is sub 500lb for the engine and sub 100lb for the transmission. Axles and Differentials will add some more weight. A 4000lb G8 GXP is less than 20% drivetrain weight.

Realize that you'd then add the motors at each wheel (25lb each at the lightest!!) and run cables to each wheel (not small wire). You just forsake some of that weight savings. Then you need your battery pack. There is no weight savings. Electrics to this day are the heavier option.

4 cylinder cars will be lighter than an electric by far.

No, the only advantage to this is packaging. You'd only need to run one chassis node and a couple cables to each wheel. That simplifies chassis design dramatically.

The drivetrain on a modern V8 car is sub 500lb for the engine and sub 100lb for the transmission.

You've never shipped a T56, have you? :p

You've never shipped a T56, have you? :p

I can second that he never has. ;)

i got a t56 shipped i think it was ~135lbs

The drivetrain on a modern V8 car is sub 500lb for the engine and sub 100lb for the transmission. Axles and Differentials will add some more weight. A 4000lb G8 GXP is less than 20% drivetrain weight.

Realize that you'd then add the motors at each wheel (25lb each at the lightest!!) and run cables to each wheel (not small wire). You just forsake some of that weight savings. Then you need your battery pack. There is no weight savings. Electrics to this day are the heavier option.

4 cylinder cars will be lighter than an electric by far.

No, the only advantage to this is packaging. You'd only need to run one chassis node and a couple cables to each wheel. That simplifies chassis design dramatically.

Look at the design of that car they have them in. the entire car chassis is redesigned in such a way that would save extreme amounts of weight in material alone just for the chassis because it could be made much smaller.
you are thinking just in weigh of the drivetrain. I am talking whole car design. there are significant design differences in how a car with those wheels would be built compared to how ours are built today, leading to a much lighter car.

i got a t56 shipped i think it was ~135lbs

I could lift it off the ground and carry it around. It didnt feel over 100lb to me. Maybe going to the gym paid off. :p

you are thinking just in weigh of the drivetrain. I am talking whole car design. there are significant design differences in how a car with those wheels would be built compared to how ours are built today, leading to a much lighter car.

I am well aware of how something like that could be done - I've done some design work on something similar for a *tube chassis*. You could get something the size and weight of a Smart fourtwo to do that under 2000lb pretty easily (though you'd have to add weight to the chassis!). But to get a mid size or full size car? In order to maintain modern safety regs (ie crumple zones and crash protection) and some minimal level of comfort - I'd like to see you try to get it under 2000lb. ;)

This idea has been around for a very long time, and there are many good reasons it took this long till someone even showed a concept of it, much less put it to production.