Should Congress bailout for the Big three auto makers?

Sitting here trying to decide if I think congress should bail out the big three auto makers. I am nearly convinced that the union greed and bad management is what has gotten them into the mess they are all in. Clearly the unions have them by the balls when they force the auto makers to provide 95% pay to laid off workers and not to mention retirement and health. And what about the insane executives salary and bonuses for a failing company?

I don't see the Japanese and other auto makers struggling so they must be doing something right. Maybe the big three should stand up and take notice.

I am also convinced that if they are given the money, they will be back for more within the next 6 months and none of the major problems will be resolved. I hate to see them further fail, but maybe if its inevitable, they should just go ahead and fail then restructure from the ground up.

I want a zr1 not a prius so yes they should.

Oh hey! An American auto industry bailout thread! Never saw one of these!

It's not a bail out. It's a loan.

Let them go bankrupt, restructure themselves including shedding the UAW parasites entirely, and then maybe give them a cash infusion to get them closer to their former selves albeit without nearly the same burden.

Yeah its a loan.6 months later they will be back for more.When our family buisness went **** up did the government step into help.Hell NO

It's not a bail out. It's a loan.

That depends on if the money is paid back.

It's not a bail out. It's a loan.

A loan in this context is still a bail out. A bail out is any sort of financial assistance that would otherwise normally be unavailable for a failing company.

Most of the money thrown toward the financial companies isn't just free cash, it's going toward purchases toxic debt, freeing up credit, etc. It's still a bail out though.

Bailout or loan, I'd expect they should come up with a good business plan designed at not only paying back the loan, but sucessfully competing against the competition.

I don't see this as "help in tough times" it's "GM ****ed up and in order to save our collective asses, we still need at least one American automaker."

In that case I'm applying for a car bailout in Spring because I can't afford for my clients to see me in a cheap daily driver. :p

In that case I'm applying for a car bailout in Spring because I can't afford for my clients to see me in a cheap daily driver. :p

That is probably what the three CEO's were saying too.:p

Let them go bankrupt, restructure themselves including shedding the UAW parasites entirely, and then maybe give them a cash infusion to get them closer to their former selves albeit without nearly the same burden.

That will **** all the suppliers

I don't see the Japanese and other auto makers struggling so they must be doing something right. Maybe the big three should stand up and take notice.


The Japanese have national health care, government pensions and the car companies force their workers to work overtime for no additional pay. Real level playing field there:rolleyes:

2.5 million jobs says yes.

The Japanese have national health care, government pensions and the car companies force their workers to work overtime for no additional pay. Real level playing field there:rolleyes:


Is that the true with the Japanese plants here in the US? Quite sure it does not work that way, one county over in Georgetown Ky. I was referring to the Japanese plants here.

Besides, it appears we have national health care POSSIBLY on the way as well, from what I saw in early November.

That is probably what the three CEO's were saying too.:p

Speaking of which, do we know what kinds of cars the CEO's and inner circle of GM drive?

I'd imagine they get a GM car of their choice according to some corporate plan...I mean...someone has to buy them. :D

That depends on if the money is paid back.

The money may not get 'paid' back, but the Government would definitely get it back one way or another. Despite having a terrible accounting book, they still have tens of BILLIONS worth of equipment, facilities, property, and whatnot that the Government would get a crack at before anyone else.

I don't see the Japanese and other auto makers struggling so they must be doing something right. Maybe the big three should stand up and take notice.

:rolleyes:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aSV3RjQXwyqU&refer=home
Toyota, Honda Sales Fall as Recession Tops Incentives

By Alan Ohnsman and Bill Koenig

Dec. 3 (Bloomberg) -- Toyota Motor Corp., Honda Motor Co. and Nissan Motor Co., Japan's three biggest automakers, said November U.S. sales tumbled more than 30 percent as incentives failed to lure buyers to showrooms in a deepening recession.

Toyota's 34 percent plunge was the most for Asia's biggest automaker since at least 1980, while Honda fell 32 percent and Nissan plunged 42 percent. Combined sales for Asia-based brands including Hyundai Motor Co. slid 35 percent.

While they may not be asking for a loan, they certainly aren't rolling in the dough. :p

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Extra/7-worst-ways-to-rescue-detroit.aspx

Read this:

http://www.autoextremist.com/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28030726

Sitting here trying to decide if I think congress should bail out the big three auto makers. I am nearly convinced that the union greed and bad management is what has gotten them into the mess they are all in. Clearly the unions have them by the balls when they force the auto makers to provide 95% pay to laid off workers and not to mention retirement and health. And what about the insane executives salary and bonuses for a failing company?

I don't see the Japanese and other auto makers struggling so they must be doing something right. Maybe the big three should stand up and take notice.

I am also convinced that if they are given the money, they will be back for more within the next 6 months and none of the major problems will be resolved. I hate to see them further fail, but maybe if its inevitable, they should just go ahead and fail then restructure from the ground up.

I looked at the poll results. 61 to 39 in favor.

There's a new poll out conducted by CNN and I believe Newsweek.

The public (the other 99.99999% of the US population out side of us) also polled 61%....... against the bailout.

Oh hey! An American auto industry bailout thread! Never saw one of these!

What.... there was a thread on that..... HERE...... on this website????

The Japanese have national health care, government pensions and the car companies force their workers to work overtime for no additional pay. Real level playing field there:rolleyes:
Actually, the concept of working just an eight-hour day/forty hour week and getting "overtime" is a very "American" concept; one not shared by most of the rest of the world.

We can argue about which system is "better" but the fact that some workers in some countries work 10 or 12 or 14 hour days as a matter of routine is hardly a 'level or un-level playing field issue (it's also true that other than true factory/hourly workers, many people in the U.S. would fell like a work day that was only eight hours long was almost a vacation!).

As far as health car and pensions go, anyone who really thinks such things are "free" are simply not facing reality - no government can provide anything for "free"; not to mention the fact that such things don't apply to U.S. based manufacturing plants (regardless of who owns them).

I voted no. until I see a plan to increase profitability at GM, I don't think it's right to just sign off and give them the money. I care tons about jobs and suppliers and lesser companies and dealers, but this is GM's fault. and chyrsler's and ford's [to a lesser extent, since they don't actually need money to keep operations going].

blame GM for not coming up with a drastic restructuring plan to complement drastic measures like seeking loans from the government, which up until six months ago was totally out of the realm of possibility according to GM's own press releases. they need to show they can be viable down the line. what i'm seeing is same old same old wishy washy

In good economical times letting them go bankrupt would be a plausible experiment. In this economy and with the potential job loss and far reaching effects to the overall health of the nation it's not an experiment we can afford to try.

The plans placed before Congress represents far more than a prayer that they will get better. For GM the company that begins life in 2010 will be far different than the one today.

:rolleyes:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aSV3RjQXwyqU&refer=home

While they may not be asking for a loan, they certainly aren't rolling in the dough. :p

Yeah, but the general public doesn't see this stuff. All they get is GM=evil suv's, bad business, bad products, bad, bad, bad, let em' go under, blah, blah, blah....same old BS day in day out. No one knows about the warantee issues of the foreign brands, or any of their troubles. All they hear on that end, is their cars are so good it's like God himself handed them down through Japan. And they don't hear any of this either.>>> "The Japanese have national health care, government pensions and the car companies force their workers to work overtime for no additional pay. Real level playing field there". And no there's nothing level about any of this.

Yeah its a loan.6 months later they will be back for more.When our family buisness went **** up did the government step into help.Hell NO

I see a lot of people saying this, that their or their family/friends business went to sh*t and nobody helped them. Why are you staying negative? Things happen but THAT shouldn't be reason why you would enjoy seeing others fail like you, it's your opinion whatever. :rolleyes: