So...how many lives does Buick have?

I think this deserves it's own thread. 2-4 years ago Buick was on the way out in the US and being reduced to 3 models. We know GM won't outwight axe Buick because it sells okay in China...where the Chinese see it as a prestige car.

Now according to the "plan", Buick is getting all of Saturns new product (i.e. rebadged Opels)...while Saturn is likely dead. I think this means that GM is blaming Saturn's dealer network for the sales failure of Saturn. Also because Saturn dealers are standalone, that means they are much easier to close without leaving weak dealers behind. Meaning..if you close a Saturn dealer..it is gone. Where if you close Buick...you are most likely left with a GMC/Pontiac dealership.

What I think GM is over looking is Buick has a SERIOUS image problem in the US. Much like Oldsmobile, no one under 50 can imagine themselves in a Buick anymore. This is GM's own fault because for years, Buick has been GM's old man car. Now if young/hip Saturn cannot sell rebadged Opels well...what makes you think Buick can? Most people my age who can afford a mid lux car won't even go in a show room with a Buick sign outside...they go Acura, maybe Lexus. I know GM was able to reinvent Cadillac...but it took entirely new cars and tons of cash...not rebranding, rebranded Saturns. While cars like the Escalade do bring some yound buyers in to Cadillac...I am willing to bet they still have an average buyers age in the 50's. This cannot happen at a new Buick.

So anyway...what I am saying is...how come refuses to make Buick a Chinese only brand? What makes it so important to GM in the US that they would chop Pontiac off at the knees to keep it here. All I can guess is that, GM thinks that has long as it has a Buick logo on the grille, your typical Buick bluehaired buyer will mindlessly buy it....something that does not happen with any other GM brand.

Wouldn't it make more sense to move some of their cars to Chevrolet instead imagewise?

Might be time for a modern day Grand National type car to fix that problem.

300HP Turbo 2.0L Regal maybe. Or if they really want to go after the youth, put the LNF in the next Astra sedan

http://upload.moldova.org/auto/Opel/Opel_Astra_Sedan.jpg

and give us the convertible too

http://www.automobilesreview.com/gallery/opel-astra-twintop-sedan/opel-astra-01.jpg

Buick in China is a big reason for it avoiding the gallows i'd say. It just seems way too difficult though. They pretty much have to do what they did to Cadillac. Bring in the more sophisticated, aflluent, younger buyer and convince them that this Buick holds more value. Essentially rebuild the entire lineup based on a spot between Chevy and Caddy. So whom do they directly compete with ?

The Buick cars, yes probably a lot of people under 50 are like... no way...

The Enclave... I was close to getting it... decided to the Acadia for the wife... my boss is a BMW lover/humper. She was very impressed with the Enclave... if they can pull more products like that... add a nice coupe/convertible get some rappers to drive them around... people will follow/buy...

According to Fritz Henderson, GM is poised to take Buick to the next level.

With the billions lavished on it - Saturn just wasn't getting the job done.

So whom do they directly compete with ?

Lincoln??? In recent readings I'm seeing where Lincoln is shooting for this target market just below Cadillac. It seems to be working? I'd say Lincoln has a much better design strategy than Buick...

I don't know about everyone else but I am getting a little tired of all the whining about Pontiac becoming a niche brand, which if you think about it is what Pontiac fans have been wanting for a long time.

Pontiac fans have wanted flashy, high powered, RWD cars. Pontiac fans wanted to get rid of the rebadges and bland volume models. Pontiac fans want the brand to become the American BMW. BMW is a niche brand it sells sporty RWD and AWD cars (and SUVs).

So how about you stop complaining that GM is killing your brand when it just may give you what you want!

What I think GM is over looking is Buick has a SERIOUS image problem in the US. Much like Oldsmobile, no one under 50 can imagine themselves in a Buick anymore. This is GM's own fault because for years, Buick has been GM's old man car. Now if young/hip Saturn cannot sell rebadged Opels well...what makes you think Buick can? Most people my age who can afford a mid lux car won't even go in a show room with a Buick sign outside...they go Acura, maybe Lexus. I know GM was able to reinvent Cadillac...but it took entirely new cars and tons of cash...not rebranding, rebranded Saturns. While cars like the Escalade do bring some yound buyers in to Cadillac...I am willing to bet they still have an average buyers age in the 50's. This cannot happen at a new Buick.

So anyway...what I am saying is...how come refuses to make Buick a Chinese only brand? What makes it so important to GM in the US that they would chop Pontiac off at the knees to keep it here. All I can guess is that, GM thinks that has long as it has a Buick logo on the grille, your typical Buick bluehaired buyer will mindlessly buy it....something that does not happen with any other GM brand.

It wasn't too long ago this was the same image problem for Cadillac. It's a valid problem--I don't think older buyers even want to buy them because it acknowledges they're driving an "old person" car. My mom (in her 60s) just bought a Pontiac this year and I think she was resistant to fulfilling the stereotype of older person driving a Buick.

I think the image problem is something that can be fixed. Other threads have mentioned the positive reaction to the Enclave; it's all a matter of having the right product. If Buick had received some of the "up market" products Saturn got, wouldn't Buick already have a nice foundation? Wouldn't it have been easier to convince consumers to buy them as Buicks rather than from the plastic-bodied, "appliance" brand?

I've always been a Pontiac fan (I own two now) and preferred the Trans Am over the Camaro. I think Pontiac lost too much equity abandoning some well known nameplates like Grand Am and Grand Prix. I understand the reasoning to an extent, but it seems like another short-sighted GM decision. Pontiac and Buick both need product and a re-focused identity. If it's as niche and near luxury then fine, just stick to it. To me, both can be saved if GM makes the commitment.

The Enclave is changing the 'under 50' thing.

And Saturn is failing BECAUSE (one of the big reasons) of it's small dealer network. Funnel Opels through Buick or even Pontiac and you'll automatically see better sales.

I hope Saturn stays though, I wouldn't mind them becoming a niche player again (in what they offer) Saturn was good at small cars, so why not give them the Corsa and Astra lines and see what they can do.

Interesting. To think of it, 20 years ago I probably would have considered a Buick. I was the one that talked my folks into buying one. While I was trying to get them into a GN, my mom fell in love with a black Park Avenue and that was history. (FWIW, My dad's first car was a 53 Buick.) My in-laws have always been Buick owners, and my wife grew up with them (although her uncle once owned an AMC dealership). In fact I recently assisted my mother-in-law with the purchase of a clean low mileage Park Ave to replace her older one. The point being, I am now in my mid 40s. Although I am still into performance cars and would rather own Chevrolets, I still like to look at what else GM has to offer. That said, if I were to purchase something other than a Chevy, it would more likely be a Cadillac than a Buick. Its not that Buick doesn't make nice cars, its just that their styling and image don't particularly appeal to me. Perhaps that will change with Buick moving to a more Opel look and a proper marketing scheme, but I seriously doubt they can trump Cadillac.

I Think it comes down to Pontiac isn't overly liked anywhere. From the GTO to the G8, they are phenomenal cars but they just don't sell well. Pontiac has little to no Global image. The American public is retarded, if they are shown how high a regard that Buick is held in China then Buick can be revived here.

Also don't forget that last year Buick was tied for first place with Lexus in reliability. GM might want that PR to start going around.

Let's look at this objectively. Buick sells two ancient cars which are finally being replaced with modern Epsilon designs. GM really isn't doing Buick any huge favor here -- just enough to keep them alive.

However I find it completely mind-boggling that GM keeps changing it's brand strategy every two years or so. If they just committed to one of these brands for say 10 years, they could probably turn it around. GM invested $3 Billion in Saturn and 3 years later they're looking to shut it down. That's pretty much exactly what they did with Oldsmobile, just wasting tons of product development money only to give up almost immediately.

I think GM still lives in the 1950s when the public really cared about new car introductions and adjusted their buying preferences accordingly. Which is not at all how it works nowdays -- it takes decades of consistent products and advertising to stay on people's radars.

I have not seen a young person driving one yet...

Matter of fact it is very rare you see them at all...I see more Acadias...which is strange since they are normally in same showroom.


The Enclave is changing the 'under 50' thing.

And Saturn is failing BECAUSE (one of the big reasons) of it's small dealer network. Funnel Opels through Buick or even Pontiac and you'll automatically see better sales.

I hope Saturn stays though, I wouldn't mind them becoming a niche player again (in what they offer) Saturn was good at small cars, so why not give them the Corsa and Astra lines and see what they can do.

I have not seen a young person driving one yet...

Matter of fact it is very rare you see them at all...I see more Acadias...which is strange since they are normally in same showroom.

Why is attracting buyers over 50 such a bad thing. They need cars too - and they also have this thing called money.

Why is attracting buyers over 50 such a bad thing. They need cars too - and they also have this thing called money.

Well...what 50 years want and what 20 year olds want is much different. a 50 year old may have 2-4 more car purchases left (if that)...and tend to buy vehicles less often as they get closer to the nursing home. Hook a young buyer and you may have 5-10+ more car purchases.

Well...what 50 years want and what 20 year olds want is much different. a 50 year old may have 2-4 more car purchases left (if that)...and tend to buy vehicles less often as they get closer to the nursing home. Hook a young buyer and you may have 5-10+ more car purchases.

The purpose of having multi-brands is to appeal to different consumers.

The 20 yo won't have any interest in an Enclave. The 50 yo won't have any interest in a Cobalt. The trick is to get them both to buy from you.

That was the idea with Pontiac and Buick in the same showroom. Now Buick will have to have broader appeal.

The purpose of having multi-brands is to appeal to different consumers.

The 20 yo won't have any interest in an Enclave. The 50 yo won't have any interest in a Cobalt. The trick is to get them both to buy from you.

Why is attracting buyers over 50 such a bad thing. They need cars too - and they also have this thing called money.

50 year olds would be a significant improvement for Buick :p

(Seriously, I think the Enclave woke them up to the idea that someone under 70 would actually drive the brand. Whether this will actually work is a huge question mark though. Too bad they can't afford Tiger Woods anymore.)

That was the idea with Pontiac and Buick in the same showroom. Now Buick will have to have broader appeal.

No, Chevy will have the broad appeal. Buick will be a mid-premium brand bridging the gap between Chevy and Cadillac.

What happens to Pontiac in the long run? Your guess is as good as mine. But I sure wouldn't bet on the same old, 'give Pontiac a G8/GTO/Firebird' argument I hear around here. That formula is dead - especially for Pontiac.