Opel, Buick merge. Pontiac, Saturn die.

http://blogs.motortrend.com/6370393/government/the-hour-approaches-detroit-returns-to-capitol-hill-buick-and-opel-to-converge/index.html

kill saturn? that brand was just getting good!

Well that settles it for me then. My next car will likely be a 370Z. Bye Bye Pontiac :(

thats an interesting combo. it could work. i'm all sold on killing GMC, pontiac and Hummer.

That guy says that Cruze will be on a stretched Gamma platform, when in fact it's on Delta II.

That causes me to question all of his other information.

kill saturn? that brand was just getting good!

But sales are going no where. I'd rather see those Opels become Pontiacs. Pontiac/GMC already already has the same line up as Saturn plus trucks and out sells Saturn 4 to 1. There is no way Saturn sales will ever grow 400% to make up for the loss of Pontiac/GMC, but Pontiac/GMC could grow 20% and make up for Saturn if they had the lower end Opels.

Aura = G6
Outlook = Acadia
Sky = Solstice
Vue = GMC Terrain
Astra = G5/Vibe


One thing that I think is important no matter which brand stays is that they have premium small cars.

This combo makes alot of sense. It lets Opel move upscale, especially if a rumored Saab sale materializes. And it aligns Buick with that move in a way that Saturn simply could not make happen. Opels are already sold in China as Buicks - so they're partly there in that regard.

The question here is if Buick and Opel design merge, is there even a reason for Saturn to exist?

I think no matter what happens, the freestanding Saturn stores are history.

Misleading topic title.

This is still just rumor.

Misleading topic title.

This is still just rumor.
Seriously... its all a guess at this point until the actual restructuring plan comes out.

Seriously... its all a guess at this point until the actual restructuring plan comes out.


QTF...

we should put up a rule here.. if this isn't coming straight from GM it needs to say in the post something like this:

"Article/Rumor: Opel, Buick merge. Pontiac, Saturn die."

when we need to know for sure that is something for real from the real source:

"OFFICIAL: blah blah blah blah"

I do believe this would help keep this more orgainzed, and less confusion..

This combo makes alot of sense. It lets Opel move upscale, especially if a rumored Saab sale materializes. And it aligns Buick with that move in a way that Saturn simply could not make happen. Opels are already sold in China as Buicks - so they're partly there in that regard.

The question here is if Buick and Opel design merge, is there even a reason for Saturn to exist?

I think no matter what happens, the freestanding Saturn stores are history.

I think it makes a lot of sense as well but then again I have advocated this for a few weeks now so, good job agreeing with me!:thumb:

Misleading topic title.

This is still just rumor.

Seriously... its all a guess at this point until the actual restructuring plan comes out.

QTF...

we should put up a rule here.. if this isn't coming straight from GM it needs to say in the post something like this:

"Article/Rumor: Opel, Buick merge. Pontiac, Saturn die."

when we need to know for sure that is something for real from the real source:

"OFFICIAL: blah blah blah blah"

I do believe this would help keep this more orgainzed, and less confusion..


If it were an official announcement from GM, I would have said something like "OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT".

There are all sorts of leaks/rumors/scenarios floating around right now. This particular one makes alot of sense and is worthy of discussion.

Just edit the title, then I'll agree.

This seems like the direct opposite of what they should do. Kill/sell opel/buick, keep pontiac and saturn.

GM and Chrysler are due to have the public version of their plans out today, so we'll know very soon.

At first this didn't really make sense, but now it's pretty clear the reasons and its what most of us have been pressing for.

If Pontiac and Saturn are gone, the only volume dealer necessary would be Chevy, so it'd be the only brand with cars less than $25k.

No more Pontiac dealers pressing for product... no more G3 and G5s. That means all the money can go to two small cars (Aveo replacement and Cruze), instead of having two for Chevy, two for Pontiac and two for Saturn.

Buick is the mid end and there would be minimal product overlap with the higher end of Chevy and the lower end of Cadillac.

Cadillac is obviously the high end.

GMC is still the odd man out, but I guess GM doesn't want to rock the boat 180.

Also, per the Fritz Henderson article posted a few days ago, his big thing was Chevy everywhere. Looks like his fingerprints are all over this.

Just edit the title, then I'll agree.

:rolleyes:

I guess it's tough to just read the article and figure out it's not an official announcement. Why bother discussing the topic when we all can just complain about the title.

That being said...

But sales are going no where. I'd rather see those Opels become Pontiacs. Pontiac/GMC already already has the same line up as Saturn plus trucks and out sells Saturn 4 to 1. There is no way Saturn sales will ever grow 400% to make up for the loss of Pontiac/GMC, but Pontiac/GMC could grow 20% and make up for Saturn if they had the lower end Opels.

Aura = G6
Outlook = Acadia
Sky = Solstice
Vue = GMC Terrain
Astra = G5/Vibe


One thing that I think is important no matter which brand stays is that they have premium small cars.

I agree 100% with this. That keeps GM with the two brand format (Chevy/Caddy and Buick/Pontiac/GMC), keeps some great cars, and adds more "excitement" to Pontiac.

LOL, Toyota will buy Pontiac, dress it with cladding and it will sale and be harolded.

with opel cars being designed as buicks in america, i'd still see a role for Pontiac in the BPG dealers. if small premium cars and medium-to-large premium cars were being sold as Buicks, Pontiac could refocus on performance cars, more specifically RWD sedans and coupes. you don't need to have a full lineup to cover this, but if Chevrolet were mass market cars, Buick were upscale and premium, Cadillac were full luxury, why there'd still be room for a small more focused attitude and sporty performance division. a torana for around $22k with more aggressive lines would be a perfect successor to the old grand am. g8 could continue and evolve down the line if they chose to invest in it. all pontiac really needs is derivations of the alpha platform, and maybe a small performance FWD coupe, like the mini.

i've always known there wasn't breathing room for Saturn though. even with its untraditional GM appeal, it was selling mass market cars when all the other brands are doing practically the exact same thing. saturn with its low volume, overlapping product, and relatively untested potential in higher priced markets doesn't make any sense to keep. opel should have a funnel for its product to be sold here, it shouldn't be saturn

Looks like Saturn will die and Pontiac will be made a niche brand.

In an effort to cut costs, GM also suggested that two of its brands - Pontiac and Saturn - could essentially be dropped. GM said it would make Pontiac merely a niche product sold by other dealerships and explore alternatives for Saturn dealers.

niche brand:think:


consider Hummer sale:think:


consider Saabs global presence:think:



thats too slow a start for the position they are in. Not sure congress will buy it.

Less brands, less dealers. Pontiac a niche brand ? WTF. What niche other than underperforming brand can they fill

Why is GMC sticking around again?

Why is GMC sticking around again?Probably to give Buick-Pontiac-GMC a truck/suv product line.

Why is GMC sticking around again?


Because the Sierra is a better looking truck than the Silverado! :p

niche brand:think:


consider Hummer sale:think:


consider Saabs global presence:think:



thats too slow a start for the position they are in. Not sure congress will buy it.

Less brands, less dealers. Pontiac a niche brand ? WTF. What niche other than underperforming brand can they fill

Agreed. It seems like they are saying 'just give us the money, and we'll think about maybe making some changes'.

Read it all.

It's a good plan.

Read Chrysler's for one that Congress is likely to pounce on.