Main Competition Raises price...

Yep.. Mustang GT Premium for the 2010 model will start at $30,095...

Link (http://jalopnik.com/5090314/2010-ford-mustang-gt-premium-package-pricing-leaks-starts-at-30095)

Mustang GT Premium - $30,095
Ambient Lighting, Bright Aluminum Accent Dash Applicques, Pedal Covers, Scuff Plate & Shift Knob, Cupholders, Door Trim Panel Inserts, Front & Rear Footwells, Gloss Pain Center Stack & Console, Leather Stearing Wheel w/ Aluminum spokes, 6 months Sirius Satellite Radio, Satin Door Speaker Surrounds, SYNC, 18″ Spoke Aluminum Wheels, 6-Guage Cluster w/ MyColor, 6-way Power Adjustable Driver’s Seat w/ 2-way Adjustable Head Restraint & Power Lumbar, Shaker 500 Audio System

Security Package (43S) - $995
Active Anti-Theft System, Wheel Locking Kit

Comfort Package (53B)- $575
Heated Driver & Passenger Seat, 6-way power passenger seat, electronic mirror w/ compass

GT Track Package (67T) - $1,445
Dual Piston Calipers, Performance Brake Pads, 3.73 Axle Ratio, Recalibrated Stability Control

Electronics Package (85X) - $2,700
Voice Activated Navigation System: In-Dash Screen, Single DVD/CD/MP3 Player, DVD Audio/Video Capability, Interanal Hard Disk Drive for Map, POI Storage, 10GB Jukebox, Support for SYNC & Other Multi-Media Devices (Audio Input Jack), Dual Zone Automatic Temperature Control

Over the Top Racing Stripes Package (47A) - $395

High Intensity Discharge Headlamps (51H) - $525

Exterior Standard Equipment:

* Exhaust Tips (Dual Bright Rolled)
* Fog Lamps
* Grille (With Black Chrome ‘Pony’)
* Automatic Headlamps
* Dual Power Mirrors with Body Color Caps (Side Mounted)
* LED Sequential Tail lights
* 18″ Polished Aluminum wheels (w/Spare Steel Wheel and Mini-Spare Tire)

Interior Standard Equipment:

* Driver & Passenger Airbags (Side Impact, Dual Front)
* Manual controlled Air Conditioning
* Locking center console with full Armrest and Storage
* Two covered cupholders
* Power door locks
* Color Keyed Front floor mats
* Illuminated Entry
* Chrome Accent Instrument Cluster with Four Guages & Register Vents
* Center High Mounted Dome Lamps
* Child Latch System (rear seats)
* Front door map pockets
* Bucket seats with 4-way Manual Adjust Feature
* Tilt Steering wheel with Speed Control Feature
* Trunk Release
* Power windows (One-Touch Down/Up Front)

Functional Equipment:

* 4.6L OHC 3V V-8 Engine
* Ducktail Spoiler
* Advance Trac With Electronic Stability Control
* Easy Fuel Capless Fuel Filler
* Engine Cover
* Personal Safety System (For Driver & Front Passenger)
* Rear Window Defroster
* Remote Keyless Entry
* Side Intrusion Door Beams
* SOSPOST Crash Alert System
* Tire Pressure Monitoring System

is there a V8 non premium that starts under $30,095 or is this the cheapest V8? it doesn't look too redesigned for 2010...i thought it was supposed to be significantly updated?

the Camaro won't have an "electronic mirror" with compass or seperate display for a compass, mpg calculations, etc right?

I kind of expected Ford to increase the price on the 2010 Mustang GT. Sure you can still get the base GT for less but Ford has to charge for the premium options. This puts the Camaro SS at a better price position because it's no longer a good bit more expensive then a comparable Mustang GT.

This falls into the "Non-News" catagory.

It's a price increase of about $100.

Current Premium Mustang GTs cost just over $29,000


There is at least a $2,000 difference between the Mustang GT and the Mustang GT Premium. Base Mustang GTs still cost $27,200

Current Premium GT includes leather, shaker 500 w/ 6 disc changer, and a whole host of other items as standard. It's a pretty loaded, not many options left vehicle.

The new one includes: "Ambient Lighting, Bright Aluminum Accent Dash Applicques, Pedal Covers, Scuff Plate & Shift Knob, Cupholders, Door Trim Panel Inserts, Front & Rear Footwells, Gloss Pain Center Stack & Console, Leather Stearing Wheel w/ Aluminum spokes, 6 months Sirius Satellite Radio, Satin Door Speaker Surrounds, SYNC, 18″ Spoke Aluminum Wheels, 6-Guage Cluster w/ MyColor, 6-way Power Adjustable Driver’s Seat w/ 2-way Adjustable Head Restraint & Power Lumbar, Shaker 500 Audio System. "

What's more intresting is "a GT Track Package for an extra $1,445 with dual piston calipers, performance brake pads, a 3.73 axle ratio and a recalibrated stability control."

Base Mustang will still be about $2,000 less than Camaro SS.

This falls into the "Non-News" catagory.

It's a price increase of about $100.

Current Premium Mustang GTs cost just over $29,000

Fordvehicles.com puts the 2009 GT premium at $29,160 so if the new one is $30,095 that's actually an increase of $935.00.

Not huge, but more than $100.

I'd assume there will be at least some increase over the current $27,210 for the Deluxe, too.

Camaro is still going to be more expensive, but it will be a little narrower gap...

I'd be inclined to add that "track" package to any GT Mustang being compared to an SS Camaro...it makes sense (to me), since the FE3 setup on the Camaro has the brakes, etc and was tuned on the 'Ring. When you do add it; it lowers the price gap a good chunk...the Camaro's looking better every day...

Im so glad Ford did so much to stay competitive with Chevy and Dodge:lol:

I thought for 2010 the Mustang GT deluxe model has been dropped?

I thought for 2010 the Mustang GT deluxe model has been dropped?

Looks like it's still with us from the brochure:

http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2010-ford-mustang-sneak-peek/1164241/

I thought for 2010 the Mustang GT deluxe model has been dropped?

Who on earth said that???

Looks like it's still with us from the brochure:

http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2010-ford-mustang-sneak-peek/1164241/

I see the 3:55 rear axle on the manual has been replaced with 3.73s.

The 2010 GT will apparently be a little quicker than the current one.

The 2010 GT will apparently be a little quicker than the current one.

300 hp to 315hp. Boy, they went all out. :lol::lol:

300 hp to 315hp. Boy, they went all out. :lol::lol:

Don't need to.

1. They have owned the market for 8 years.

2. The public isn't impressed by excess horsepower numbers (or else the Mustang wouldn't have owned the market for the past 8 years).

3. Most importantly, that 315 horsepower V8 powered Mustang GT is in a car that's roughly 300 pounds lighter than the new v6 Camaro and a solid 400 pounds lighter than the Camaro SS.

The 300hp Mustang was right next to a 400 hp GTO till almost the end of a quarter mile. The Camaro SS is heavier than a GTO and has only a 22 horse advantage and that's only with the manual.

I'd save your :lol: smileys till we actually see the numbers this car pulls with that new axle, that Bullitt level high revving engine, and the new tuning that computer has.


Besides, we aren't talking "All Out" vehicles. We're talking bang for the buck. The 700 horsepower Shelby Mustang GT500 Super Snake is what I would call "All Out". ;)

3. Most importantly, that 315 horsepower V8 powered Mustang GT is in a car that's roughly 300 pounds lighter than the new v6 Camaro and a solid 400 pounds lighter than the Camaro SS.

Have official numbers been released yet? I knew it was only speculation before, saying that they were gonna receive a big bump in HP #'s AND be 500lbs lighter. I don't think it's appropriate for us to jump the gun until we have real-world numbers.

What the hell is this?

Security Package (43S) - $995
Active Anti-Theft System, Wheel Locking Kit

It better be a guy named Guido who stands next to your car with a baseball bat when you are not there for that kind of cash.

-Geoff

Have official numbers been released yet? I knew it was only speculation before, saying that they were gonna receive a big bump in HP #'s AND be 500lbs lighter. I don't think it's appropriate for us to jump the gun until we have real-world numbers.

it has always been rumored that those features were supposed to debut in 2011. This is the 2010 mustang here. your going to have to wait.

Don't need to.

1. They have owned the market for 8 years.

2. The public isn't impressed by excess horsepower numbers (or else the Mustang wouldn't have owned the market for the past 8 years).

3. Most importantly, that 315 horsepower V8 powered Mustang GT is in a car that's roughly 300 pounds lighter than the new v6 Camaro and a solid 400 pounds lighter than the Camaro SS.

The 300hp Mustang was right next to a 400 hp GTO till almost the end of a quarter mile. The Camaro SS is heavier than a GTO and has only a 22 horse advantage and that's only with the manual.

I'd save your :lol: smileys till we actually see the numbers this car pulls with that new axle, that Bullitt level high revving engine, and the new tuning that computer has.


Besides, we aren't talking "All Out" vehicles. We're talking bang for the buck. The 700 horsepower Shelby Mustang GT500 Super Snake is what I would call "All Out". ;)

+1

I agree completely. I use to sell cars a while back, and I can honestly say that 98%+ of car buyers don't know ANYTHING about horsepower, what it means, or even compares them. They are more WAY WAY more likely to base a buying decision on a car that needs "premium fuel" vs. "regular" than anything else when it comes to engine performance... and this was BEFORE oil prices skyrocketing.

3. Most importantly, that 315 horsepower V8 powered Mustang GT is in a car that's roughly 300 pounds lighter than the new v6 Camaro and a solid 400 pounds lighter than the Camaro SS.

The 300hp Mustang was right next to a 400 hp GTO till almost the end of a quarter mile. The Camaro SS is heavier than a GTO and has only a 22 horse advantage and that's only with the manual.

Actually the Camaro at it's curb weight with driver weights being equal would only need to have about 355hp or 40 more than the Mustang to equal the power to weight ratio and even up the 400lb difference.

Curb weight matters but in the realm of a 1/4 mile pure acceleration contest it doesn't matter nearly as much as many think it will. Traction and gearing are an X factor for now.

So its likely that in 2010 the Camaro SS vs Mustang GT will have about as much drama as the 2002 Camaro SS vs. Mustang GT runs did.

Condor GT500's aside as they have a better power to weight ratio than any N/A 2010 Camaro.

1. They have owned the market for 8 years.

2. The public isn't impressed by excess horsepower numbers (or else the Mustang wouldn't have owned the market for the past 8 years).

They were the only car in that market for the past eight years. I don't see where you're point is. At least not from that angle.

+1

I agree completely. I use to sell cars a while back, and I can honestly say that 98%+ of car buyers don't know ANYTHING about horsepower, what it means, or even compares them. They are more WAY WAY more likely to base a buying decision on a car that needs "premium fuel" vs. "regular" than anything else when it comes to engine performance... and this was BEFORE oil prices skyrocketing.

Sure, if you're buying an Accord or a Camry. It's pretty absurd to think that a person in the market for a sports car isn't going to look at hp numbers. I have more than a few friends who were/are salesmen and there outlook on this is a little different.

Actually the Camaro at it's curb weight with driver weights being equal would only need to have about 355hp or 40 more than the Mustang to equal the power to weight ratio and even up the 400lb difference.

So its likely that in 2010 the Camaro SS vs Mustang GT will have about as much drama as the 2002 Camaro SS vs. Mustang GT runs did.


:yes:

3. Most importantly, that 315 horsepower V8 powered Mustang GT is in a car that's roughly 300 pounds lighter than the new v6 Camaro and a solid 400 pounds lighter than the Camaro SS.

The 300hp Mustang was right next to a 400 hp GTO till almost the end of a quarter mile. The Camaro SS is heavier than a GTO and has only a 22 horse advantage and that's only with the manual.
new G8 GTs are outpacing mustangs. they are 4000 lbs (heavier than the GTO) and have 360 hp (less than the GTO). just saw one with a computer tune alone run 13.0 @ 106. several have run mid 13s @ 102-104 completely stock. Im pretty sure a camaro with ~200 lbs less weight and 60 more hp will CRUSH this 2010 mustang. not to mention those LS3s respond amazing to simple mods. ford needs that rumored 400 hp mod motor to have a chance in the acceleration department.

Don't need to.

1. They have owned the market for 8 years.

2. The public isn't impressed by excess horsepower numbers (or else the Mustang wouldn't have owned the market for the past 8 years).



They have owned the market for 8 years. I wonder why. I agree that the
public isn't impressed by excess HP, but this is an enthusiast site. Of course
it is important up here. More HP is never a bad thing.

They were the only car in that market for the past eight years. I don't see where you're point is. At least not from that angle.

I think the point you missed is that Camaro was dead for 8 years, while Mustang was not.

If you need that point driven home even more, consider that pretty much from 1999 on till GM pulled the plug after the 2002 model year, Mustang was outselling Camaro (and Firebird.... COMBINED) by 2 to 1.

The point couldn't be made better if it hit you in the head with a sledgehammer.


Sure, if you're buying an Accord or a Camry. It's pretty absurd to think that a person in the market for a sports car isn't going to look at hp numbers. I have more than a few friends who were/are salesmen and there outlook on this is a little different.



:yes:

Then your salesmen must be in the unemployment line by now unless they live in a very weird part of the market.

There were 35,000 Camaros sold in 2002. There were roughly 5,000 Chevrolet dealers that year. There were about 150,000 Mustangs sold that year. There were roughly 4,000 Ford dealers.

Do the math.

Based on only Mustang & Camaro, which salesmen made sales and therefore made money?

Hint: one dealer averaged 30 sold cars per year, the other sold 7.


new G8 GTs are outpacing mustangs. they are 4000 lbs (heavier than the GTO) and have 360 hp (less than the GTO). just saw one with a computer tune alone run 13.0 @ 106. several have run mid 13s @ 102-104 completely stock. Im pretty sure a camaro with ~200 lbs less weight and 60 more hp will CRUSH this 2010 mustang. not to mention those LS3s respond amazing to simple mods. ford needs that rumored 400 hp mod motor to have a chance in the acceleration department.

Since you brought up a nonstock G8, here's a nonstock Mustang GT running 12.6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12kdJO9P72g&feature=related

Here's one without cats that did 12.7: http://www.dragtimes.com/Ford-Mustang-Timeslip-15243.html

The point is we're talking stock here. You add a computer tune, Mustang adds underdrive pulleys. You add an exhaust, Mustang adds exhaust. Ford has a mother of a catalouge with nothing but Mustang parts, so I wouldn't announce too smugly about how LS3s respond to mods. So do cammers.

That said, and going back to drive-off-the-showroom-floor stock, Mustang GTs typically do mid 13's and so do G8s. Mustang GTs weigh in around 3500 pounds, G8 GTs weigh in around 4000. G8 GTs have 360 horsepower, Mustang GTs have only 300.

Point still stands.



They have owned the market for 8 years. I wonder why. I agree that the
public isn't impressed by excess HP, but this is an enthusiast site. Of course
it is important up here. More HP is never a bad thing.

Unless that's the only thing you can talk about.... again, as the 4th gen Camaro proved.

I love more horsepower as much as the next fellow. But those that think horsepower is the answer to everything, or that the car with the most horsepower wins.... lets just say it's good for GM and any other car company that they are restricted to typing on the internet and not working for them. :lol:

Since you brought up a nonstock G8, here's a nonstock Mustang GT running 12.6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12kdJO9P72g&feature=related

Here's one without cats that did 12.7: http://www.dragtimes.com/Ford-Mustang-Timeslip-15243.html

The point is we're talking stock here. You add a computer tune, Mustang adds underdrive pulleys. You add an exhaust, Mustang adds exhaust. Ford has a mother of a catalouge with nothing but Mustang parts, so I wouldn't announce too smugly about how LS3s respond to mods. So do cammers.

That said, and going back to drive-off-the-showroom-floor stock, Mustang GTs typically do mid 13's and so do G8s. Mustang GTs weigh in around 3500 pounds, G8 GTs weigh in around 4000. G8 GTs have 360 horsepower, Mustang GTs have only 300.

Point still stands.
you just reinforced what I said. that mustang also had a whole lot more mods than the G8 GT I posted
2006 Mustang GT 1/4 mile run: 12.6 @ 108. Mods: Steeda UDP, BMR front swaybar delete/radiator support, BMR lower control arms, Pypes off-road H-pipe, C&L CAI, Bamachips 93 octane tune, 4.10 gears, MT ET/Street DRs, and a great track.
the biggest difference being the G8 GT had stock tires and the mustang had drag radials. there are a few tenths there. the mph difference was a hair over 1 mph too.
the G8 GT has 60 more hp and 500 more lbs yet they run very similar times as the mustang GT. the camaro will have ~120 more hp (107 more than the current '10 model) and weigh ~300 lbs more. I am sorry but I fail to see how the camaro and this current mustang will be anywhere near close to eachother. If I were a betting man I would look to what 03/04 cobras run stock as a guide to what camaro SSs should run. they are close in weight, close in hp, close in gearing.

new G8 GTs are outpacing mustangs. they are 4000 lbs (heavier than the GTO) and have 360 hp (less than the GTO). just saw one with a computer tune alone run 13.0 @ 106. several have run mid 13s @ 102-104 completely stock. Im pretty sure a camaro with ~200 lbs less weight and 60 more hp will CRUSH this 2010 mustang. not to mention those LS3s respond amazing to simple mods. ford needs that rumored 400 hp mod motor to have a chance in the acceleration department.

the vast majority of the G8 GT owners that have posted their stock times have ran in the ~13.8 range @ 100 - 102.
BTW, The Camaro is slated to weigh 80 - 150 lbs less than the G8.

you just reinforced what I said. that mustang also had a whole lot more mods than the G8 GT I posted

the biggest difference being the G8 GT had stock tires and the mustang had drag radials. there are a few tenths there. the mph difference was a hair over 1 mph too.
the G8 GT has 60 more hp and 500 more lbs yet they run very similar times as the mustang GT. the camaro will have ~120 more hp (107 more than the current '10 model) and weigh ~300 lbs more. I am sorry but I fail to see how the camaro and this current mustang will be anywhere near close to eachother. If I were a betting man I would look to what 03/04 cobras run stock as a guide to what camaro SSs should run. they are close in weight, close in hp, close in gearing.

You cant really compare the 03/04 Cobra to the new camaro. The only thing that will be comparble is the horsepower. The Cobra has MUCH better gearing, with those SUV size wheel/tire package on the camaro killing it, along with the portly pig of a cobra being 200 - 250 lbs lighter.

That said, and going back to drive-off-the-showroom-floor stock, Mustang GTs typically do mid 13's and so do G8s. Mustang GTs weigh in around 3500 pounds, G8 GTs weigh in around 4000. G8 GTs have 360 horsepower, Mustang GTs have only 300.

Point still stands.

Actually, the point does not stand. You yourself just said that the G8 GT runs with the current Mustang GT.

That seams to make perfect sense:

Mustang GT: 11.67 lbs/hp
Pontiac G8 GT: 11.11 lbs/hp

Now if we look at the 2010 models:

Mustang GT: 11.22 lbs/hp (est. weight of 3533 and 315hp)
Camaro SS: 9.15 lbs/hp (weight of 3860 from GM and 422hp)

And since it was brought up:
Terminator: 9.36 lbs/hp to 8.59 lbs/hp (weight 3650 and 390hp, but really more like 425hp)

Now I agree the 3.73 gears in the Mustang will help, but they CERTAINLY will not be anywhere near enough. We have to look no further than the Bullitt to see what a 3.73 geared 315hp S-197 Mustang runs. Answer: about a tenth or two better than a 300hp, 3.55 geared Stang. In same mag tests the two have run nearly identical times and I recall one test where the Bullitt was slower.

IF the Camaro gets traction there is NO DOUBT it will DESTROY the 2010 Mustang GT.

Now, lets take a sneak preview of the 2011 GT:

Mustang GT: 9.125 lbs/hp (assuming 3650 and 400hp)
Camaro SS: 9.15 lbs/hp

Now that is going to be a battle!!!! Lets hope Ford gives the Mustang some rear tires wider than 245 and actually puts this drivetrain in the GT for a competitive price and not some high dollar special edition Mustang. A 2011 Stang GT costing $31k with 400hp, a 6-speed transmission, and weighing only #3600 or so would be a blast! That is the kind of competition we ALL need.

*edit* Something I was just looking at for fun. A light weight LS1 F-body with a lid and exhaust (almost a given on any enthusiasts F-body at this point) would run right with both of the new guys in 2011.

1998-2002 F-body: 9.05 lbs/hp (assuming 3350 and 370hp or about 315 to 320 rwhp)

Now you guys with t-tops, leather, etc. will need to go on a diet or make sure you have some longtubes, haha.

You cant really compare the 03/04 Cobra to the new camaro. The only thing that will be comparble is the horsepower. The Cobra has MUCH better gearing, with those SUV size wheel/tire package on the camaro killing it, along with the portly pig of a cobra being 200 - 250 lbs lighter.
http://wilsonniblett.wordpress.com/2008/07/21/2010-camaro-press-release/
http://www.supercarsite.net/ford/svt-mustang-cobra-coupe/2003
camaro has very similar gearing, slightly more weight, and more than likely more power. they will be close.

your weights are off too.

my point still stands. it has 60 more hp than the G8 GT and it weighs less. there wont be a comparison between the '10 mustang and '10 camaro.

http://wilsonniblett.wordpress.com/2008/07/21/2010-camaro-press-release/
http://www.supercarsite.net/ford/svt-mustang-cobra-coupe/2003
camaro has very similar gearing, slightly more weight, and more than likely more power. they will be close.

your weights are off too.


Ehh, I would be careful here. Over 200 pounds is not "slightly" more weight in most peoples mind. I would be very careful saying the Camaro will have more power than the Termy. Those cars were way underrated and made much closer to 425hp than the advertised 390hp. Unless something crazy happens between now and Camaro's release, the 03/04 Cobra is going to be the faster car.

Don't feel too bad though, it was based on a chassis from the 1970's and cost $34k in 2003. Over $3k more than the brand new Camaro SS in 2010.


my point still stands. it has 60 more hp than the G8 GT and it weighs less. there wont be a comparison between the '10 mustang and '10 camaro.

That is a fact!

The bottom line here is that Ford feels that it can compete with the Camaro, based on Mustang's traditional sales success, current price advantage, and cosmetic freshening - even while holding back it's improved powertrains.

I'd say that Ford has traditionally shown great skill in how they work this niche, and perhaps shouldn't be dismissed casually.

I think the point you missed is that Camaro was dead for 8 years, while Mustang was not.

If you need that point driven home even more, consider that pretty much from 1999 on till GM pulled the plug after the 2002 model year, Mustang was outselling Camaro (and Firebird.... COMBINED) by 2 to 1.



What an annoying statement, especially from someone that is considered "in the know". You know as well as I do that GM was TRYING to kill the car back then. They didn't want to sell alot of them.

If you need that point driven home even more, consider that pretty much from 1999 on till GM pulled the plug after the 2002 model year, Mustang was outselling Camaro (and Firebird.... COMBINED) by 2 to 1.


2 to 1? That's not bad at all considering GM did nothing to sell the car, they were rattle traps and basically GM just flat out killed it. Imagine if they put some positive effort towards the sales. HP is not the end all of course.
Any half brain numb skull knows that. There is something to be said for the guy that asks how much hp in that thing? 400+ sure sounds better than
300+. :D

http://wilsonniblett.wordpress.com/2008/07/21/2010-camaro-press-release/
http://www.supercarsite.net/ford/svt-mustang-cobra-coupe/2003
camaro has very similar gearing, slightly more weight, and more than likely more power. they will be close.

your weights are off too.

my point still stands. it has 60 more hp than the G8 GT and it weighs less. there wont be a comparison between the '10 mustang and '10 camaro.

my weights were right on. are you fogetting there will be automatic cars?

also, your forgetting about tire size when it come to the gearing. it's a 25.66 tire vs. a 28.66. the camaro will wind out 4th at almost 165 mph! it practically has 3 overdrives!! :lol: with my (stock) gearing, I thought my 5th gear was useless, but on the camaro, it's going to be garbage.

I guess we'll see when they come out. since they have damn near 29" tall tires on the back stock it shouldn't be hard to put some 30" slicks on it along with some 4.56s and go have some fun at the drags.

I guess we'll see when they come out. since they have damn near 29" tall tires on the back stock it shouldn't be hard to put some 30" slicks on it along with some 4.56s and go have some fun at the drags.

Or just run a small diameter slick and call it good. That is if the rear end holds together. That is what I can't wait to see. Lets hope GM learned from their previous mistakes.

The bottom line here is that Ford feels that it can compete with the Camaro, based on Mustang's traditional sales success, current price advantage, and cosmetic freshening - even while holding back it's improved powertrains.

I'd say that Ford has traditionally shown great skill in how they work this niche, and perhaps shouldn't be dismissed casually.

It'll be interesting to watch. GM finally came to town with what looks to be a pretty good interior, and Ford looks like they took the interior challenge seriously, too.

Either way, competition appears to be giving both Ford guys and GM guys a better car (weight aside, Charlie).

Or just run a small diameter slick and call it good. That is if the rear end holds together. That is what I can't wait to see. Lets hope GM learned from their previous mistakes.
a set of 30" slicks would look badass though

It'll be interesting to watch. GM finally came to town with what looks to be a pretty good interior, and Ford looks like they took the interior challenge seriously, too.

Either way, competition appears to be giving both Ford guys and GM guys a better car (weight aside, Charlie).

Competition always improves the breed. It'll also be interesting to see how the Hyundai Genesis coupe, 370Z and rumored next gen Silvia might affect this niche.

Actually, the point does not stand. You yourself just said that the G8 GT runs with the current Mustang GT.

That seams to make perfect sense:

Mustang GT: 11.67 lbs/hp
Pontiac G8 GT: 11.11 lbs/hp

Now if we look at the 2010 models:

Mustang GT: 11.22 lbs/hp (est. weight of 3533 and 315hp)
Camaro SS: 9.15 lbs/hp (weight of 3860 from GM and 422hp)

And since it was brought up:
Terminator: 9.36 lbs/hp to 8.59 lbs/hp (weight 3650 and 390hp, but really more like 425hp)

Now I agree the 3.73 gears in the Mustang will help, but they CERTAINLY will not be anywhere near enough. We have to look no further than the Bullitt to see what a 3.73 geared 315hp S-197 Mustang runs. Answer: about a tenth or two better than a 300hp, 3.55 geared Stang. In same mag tests the two have run nearly identical times and I recall one test where the Bullitt was slower.

IF the Camaro gets traction there is NO DOUBT it will DESTROY the 2010 Mustang GT.

Now, lets take a sneak preview of the 2011 GT:

Mustang GT: 9.125 lbs/hp (assuming 3650 and 400hp)
Camaro SS: 9.15 lbs/hp

Now that is going to be a battle!!!! Lets hope Ford gives the Mustang some rear tires wider than 245 and actually puts this drivetrain in the GT for a competitive price and not some high dollar special edition Mustang. A 2011 Stang GT costing $31k with 400hp, a 6-speed transmission, and weighing only #3600 or so would be a blast! That is the kind of competition we ALL need.

*edit* Something I was just looking at for fun. A light weight LS1 F-body with a lid and exhaust (almost a given on any enthusiasts F-body at this point) would run right with both of the new guys in 2011.

1998-2002 F-body: 9.05 lbs/hp (assuming 3350 and 370hp or about 315 to 320 rwhp)

Now you guys with t-tops, leather, etc. will need to go on a diet or make sure you have some longtubes, haha.

Lots of cherry picking here. One of this, none of that, a bit of this information, skip over that. ;)

Will the 2010 Camaro SS outaccelerate the 2010 Mustang GT?
No doubt.

Will the V6 Camaro's 300 hp give the 315 hp Mustang GT a run for it's money?
Only in your dreams.

Will the Camaro SS slay the GT badly in acceleration?
To be determined. We're talking about an engine (the current Bullit) which is obviously underrated and is likely to be retuned upwards again for 2010, with a higher axle ratio than Camaro, in a car that's significantly lighter than a Camaro.

Is the current 300 horse Mustang GT as quick as the G8 GT?
At the very least.

Will the 2010 Mustang be even quicker?
Again, no doubt.

Is the Terminator Cobra (don't know where that came from, but OK) quicker than the Camaro SS?
Given it's also quite a bit lighter than a Camaro SS, it's quite possible. But the SS will definately whip it on a race course.

Bullit times are 3/10 second quicker both to 60 and the quarter mile over Mustang GTs according to Ford. This has been borne out by enough tests to strongly confirm.

All said, Camaro's weight disadvantage is NOT a complete disadvantage.

That weight on the Camaro (as with the Challenger) is well placed and has a purpose. You have a chassis that is capable of handling top speeds that you will most certainly never see. Mustang's lightweight chassis means the car is limited to 155 mph as a safety margin even though the Shelby GT500 should easily do 180. Problem is at those speeds, the Mustang becomes unstable (those who drove stock 5.0 Fox Mustangs at it's top speed of 140 mph know what I'm talking about). Challengers (as well as other LX cars) and Camaros (as well as other Zetas) take these uber-speeds in stride.

2 to 1? That's not bad at all considering GM did nothing to sell the car, they were rattle traps and basically GM just flat out killed it. Imagine if they put some positive effort towards the sales. HP is not the end all of course.
Any half brain numb skull knows that. There is something to be said for the guy that asks how much hp in that thing? 400+ sure sounds better than
300+. :D

400 horsepower sounds better than 300.

However, as I learned with my "meger" 210 horsepower Thunderbird SC, it's torque that wins races (it had over 320 lbs/ft of it).

The 2004 GTO had 350 horsepower that sounds great on paper next to the 300 horsepower Mustang GT. However that Mustang GT was quicker to 60 mph and matches it in the quarter mile.

Going back to my SC, I absolutely loved how many ricers I buried. I'm sure those who knew something about SCs (rare) only saw horsepower numbers which thier little 4 bangers and V6s easily outpowered. However, they forgot about torque and my low axle ratio and aggressive transmission gearing.

I used to love saying my car had "ONLY" 210 horsepower for those that focused only on that number........ people like YOU! :lol: :p

The 2004 GTO had 350 horsepower that sounds great on paper next to the 300 horsepower Mustang GT. However that Mustang GT was quicker to 60 mph and matches it in the quarter mile.


I take it you meant the 2005 Mustang GT and not the 2004 260hp 302tq Mustang GT that ran solid 13.8-14.0's at 99 to 100mph in stock trim.

2004 GTO's are 13.5 to 13.8 ET cars at 103-104 mph trap speeds. If you want to talk torque they suffer from the same problems the F-bodies had because the LS1 makes 365 ft/lbs of twist and it's harder to launch on street tires, but plenty up to the task of moving the GTO's heft.

But if we're talking drag racing and using the 1/4 mile I'd rather see 60ft times than 0-60 as that means almost nothing.

Will the Camaro SS slay the GT badly in acceleration?
To be determined. We're talking about an engine (the current Bullit) which is obviously underrated and is likely to be retuned upwards again for 2010, with a higher axle ratio than Camaro, in a car that's significantly lighter than a Camaro.



I thought that all horsepower ratings are tested by 3rd parties now. So how would it be underrated?

However, as I learned with my "meger" 210 horsepower Thunderbird SC, it's torque that wins races (it had over 320 lbs/ft of it).
whoa whoa whoa wait a second... torque does NOT win races. horsepower wins races. torque can feel great but it doesn't make you any faster.

I thought that all horsepower ratings are tested by 3rd parties now. So how would it be underrated?

the 4.6 3v from the Mustang is NOT an SAE certified engine, so theoretically it CAN be underrated. MAYBE for '10 the will be, but the prior one's were not.

whoa whoa whoa wait a second... torque does NOT win races. horsepower wins races. torque can feel great but it doesn't make you any faster.

eh, it all depends. there are too many variables to say it plainly that tq won't win any races. horsepower can be overrated as well if the gearing is ****ty. (look at the 96-97 4v 4.6 vs. the LT1).

All said, Camaro's weight disadvantage is NOT a complete disadvantage.

That weight on the Camaro (as with the Challenger) is well placed and has a purpose. You have a chassis that is capable of handling top speeds that you will most certainly never see. Mustang's lightweight chassis means the car is limited to 155 mph as a safety margin even though the Shelby GT500 should easily do 180. Problem is at those speeds, the Mustang becomes unstable (those who drove stock 5.0 Fox Mustangs at it's top speed of 140 mph know what I'm talking about). Challengers (as well as other LX cars) and Camaros (as well as other Zetas) take these uber-speeds in stride.


:shrug:


That's a real stretch, Guy.