Camaro VS Mustang sales

Lets hope the Camaro figures can keep going up. I just happened across this on a Mustang site:

(Quote)
I may have spoke to soon last month when I said September would be the worst month for Mustang sales ever because October Mustang sales got even worse by 224 units. October is now on record as the worst month for Mustang sales ever in it’s 45 year history as an automobile (http://www.mustangblog.com/index.php/2008/october-2008-mustang-sales-figures-released-it-gets-worse/#). The future of Mustang sales are in limbo until relief in the form of a refreshed 2010 Mustang hits the showroom floor in early spring.
Sales of Mustangs for October of 2008 were 4,686 compared to 9,156 from October of 2007 showing a 48.8% decrease in sales from the previous year. Year to date Mustang (http://www.mustangblog.com/index.php/2008/october-2008-mustang-sales-figures-released-it-gets-worse/#) sales are 83,557 compared to 118,959 for the first ten months of 2007, which is a 29.8% drop.

Numbers are fun. Lots of reasons aging look, economy, new model coming out, and most notably perhaps competition from other places. :D

My sentiments exactly. The Camaro is more car for the money....I'm sure it is responsible for taking some sales from the Mustang. Although I must admit....a Vette convertible is awful tempting right now with the prices they are being advertised for compared to the MSRP price on a loaded SS/RS coupe.

And to think, from mid-October onwards, GM has taken 7000 orders on a vehicle that isn't even in production yet. Providing the economy gets into an upswing, is this a sign of things to come?

Car sales are crappy all over. Who generally buys these cars? The older guy/lady that has the cash and the younger one that needs the credit. The younger people cant get the credit so those numbers drop off. Funny thing is I see more and more new mustangs on the road every week.

Once GM makes the money back they will start taking money off the Camaro like Ford does for the Mustang. Its just new model hype.

Why wouldn't Mustang sales suffer at this point? We all know a new one is coming,I have new car fever,but i'm not about to waste a purchase on a 5-year old new-lame duck car. I'm waiting to drive the Camaro and '10 Mustang,as are most people in the know. The nicer interior alone is worth waiting for the '10 Stang.

Given the crappy year in almost all aspects and the car is 4 model years old now , I still find it impressive theyve sold 83K+ so far this year .

Also, even ignoring the economic conditions, there's so many different models on the market nowdays that the era of one model selling 150K+ year in and year out is over.

Even at 83K, it wouldn't surprise me if Mustang has out-sold all other 2-doors combined.

Lets hope the Camaro figures can keep going up. I just happened across this on a Mustang site:

(Quote)
I may have spoke to soon last month when I said September would be the worst month for Mustang sales ever because October Mustang sales got even worse by 224 units. October is now on record as the worst month for Mustang sales ever in it’s 45 year history as an automobile (http://www.mustangblog.com/index.php/2008/october-2008-mustang-sales-figures-released-it-gets-worse/#). The future of Mustang sales are in limbo until relief in the form of a refreshed 2010 Mustang hits the showroom floor in early spring.
Sales of Mustangs for October of 2008 were 4,686 compared to 9,156 from October of 2007 showing a 48.8% decrease in sales from the previous year. Year to date Mustang (http://www.mustangblog.com/index.php/2008/october-2008-mustang-sales-figures-released-it-gets-worse/#) sales are 83,557 compared to 118,959 for the first ten months of 2007, which is a 29.8% drop.

Coupes have a nortoriously short sales-life. Typically, a coupe lasts about 3 years before sales begin to tank. This was the case with the 4th gen Camaro, and even the famous Fox Mustang that came out in '79, but by '82 was but a shadow of it's 1st year. Same happened with the Probe (both 1 &2) the Cougar, the 80s era Daytona, and most other coupes you pull up the sales chart on.

The 2009 Mustang will mark the current design's FIFTH season.... yes, already.

The other thing about coupe sales is that they can suddenly skyrocket for seemingly no reason whatsoever. September 2005, Mustang sales jumpped 73%



Now....
For everyone's entertainment....
Camaro & Mustang sales:

Notes:
1. Cobra production from 1965-1969 is not included (it was counted as a separate line by Ford).
2. Numbers preceded by an asterik (*) designates a redesigned .
3. I didn't include Firebird or Capri figures though they are similar cars. With Ford having only 4000 dealers to Chevrolet's 5000, I don't need to!!

Year: Mustang/Camaro
64:*121,583/NA
65: 559,451/NA
66: 607,568/NA
67: 474,121/*220,906
68: 317,404/ 235,147
69: 299,824/ *243,065
70: 190,727/ 124,901
71:*149,678/*114,630
72: 125,093/ 114,630 (not a typo!)
73: 134,867/ 96,751
74:*385,993/ 151,008
75: 188,575/ 145,770
76: 187,567/ 182,959
77: 153,173/ 218,858
78: 192,410/ 272,631
79:*369,936/ 282,571
80: 271,322/ 152,005
81: 181,552/ 126,139
82: 130,418/*189,747
83: 120,873/ 154,318
84: 135,678/ 261,591
85: 156,514/ 180,018
86: 224,410/ 192,219
87: 159,145/ 137,760
88: 211,225/ 96,275
89: 209,769/ 110,850
90: 128,189/ 35,048
91: 98,737/ 101,316
92: 79,280/ 70,712
93: 114,228/ *39,755
94:*123,198/ 119,934
95: 185,986/ 122,844
96: 126,483/ 66,827
97: 100,254/ 95,812
98: 170,642/ 77,198
99: *126,067/ 42,098
00: 218,525/ 45,417
01: 155,162/ 29,009
(01 production stopped May 2001. 2002 Camaro had an extended run: June 2001-August 2002)
02: 142,404/42,089
03: 153,134/-0-
04: 141,907/-0-
05: *165,762/-0-

Total 1965-2001: 7,899,556/ 4,821,768

Ford plans to produce only 45,000 Mustangs for the shortened 2009 model year.

http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7419&highlight=camaro+mustang+production+figures
Total 1965-2001: 7,899,556/ 4,821,768

Why wouldn't Mustang sales suffer at this point? We all know a new one is coming,I have new car fever,but i'm not about to waste a purchase on a 5-year old new-lame duck car. I'm waiting to drive the Camaro and '10 Mustang,as are most people in the know. The nicer interior alone is worth waiting for the '10 Stang.

Everybody is waiting for the newer mustang with the nicer interior....my local ford dealer has 2007 mustangs sitting on his lot, but is only giving $6000-7000 off the sticker price. Heck, dodge trucks are giving as much as $10,000 off thier older stuff in stock.

Everybody is waiting for the newer mustang with the nicer interior....my local ford dealer has 2007 mustangs sitting on his lot, but is only giving $6000-7000 off the sticker price. Heck, dodge trucks are giving as much as $10,000 off thier older stuff in stock.

Bull. Maybe 2008 mustangs but not 2007. Up until the summer gas price hikes the mustang was still doing well. The finance crisis is what really put the crunch on the. They were still selling despite being at the end of a refresh cycle.

And to think, from mid-October onwards, GM has taken 7000 orders on a vehicle that isn't even in production yet. Providing the economy gets into an upswing, is this a sign of things to come?

economy getting into an upswing? :lol::lol: are you a comedian?

Bull. Maybe 2008 mustangs but not 2007. Up until the summer gas price hikes the mustang was still doing well. The finance crisis is what really put the crunch on the. They were still selling despite being at the end of a refresh cycle.

NOT BS..Milne Ford....Chesterfield Twp Mi. Check it out. They still had them 3 weeks ago per my neighbor who was trying to get them down lower on the price before he figured it was'nt worth it for only $7000 off on a two year old car.

I'm looking at a full page color ad from The Detroit Free Press, Sunday, Nov 9, 2009 where Russ Milne Ford is advertising NEW 2007 Ford Mustang GT Convertibles that stickered at $32,230 for $23,757 (A/Z plan). 13 available at $8400 off sticker. 866-376-6601. Current Black Book value shows $22,195 trade in/wholesale with average miles of 12,000 to 18,000. Loan value is $23,775.

I'm looking at a full page color ad from The Detroit Free Press, Sunday, Nov 9, 2009 where Russ Milne Ford is advertising NEW 2007 Ford Mustang GT Convertibles that stickered at $32,230 for $23,757 (A/Z plan). 13 available at $8400 off sticker. 866-376-6601. Current Black Book value shows $22,195 trade in/wholesale with average miles of 12,000 to 18,000. Loan value is $23,775.

My fault, i should have got he was from Michigan by his name but paid no attention. the detroit area is no guage of the rest of the country as far as mustangs go. The dealers there have more mustangs then some lots have total cars. They also offer the best deals of any area I have been in.

Is it just me, or are were '79-'94 Mustangs the UGLIEST cars ever made. Maybe not EVER, but they were hideous.

Is it just me, or are were '79-'94 Mustangs the UGLIEST cars ever made. Maybe not EVER, but they were hideous.

Your opinion is likely in the minority or at least an extremely rare and extreme opinion....... how many were sold?????

Is it just me, or are were '79-'94 Mustangs the UGLIEST cars ever made. Maybe not EVER, but they were hideous.

I don't like how they look either, but there weren't many cars that I did like that came out in the 80's.

I don't like how they look either, but there weren't many cars that I did like that came out in the 80's.

Wha? the 87 Grand National? the GNX? the 89 Turbo Trans Am? Those were definately incredible, sexy machines. Damn, I miss my 87 GN. :(

Coupes have a nortoriously short sales-life. Typically, a coupe lasts about 3 years before sales begin to tank. This was the case with the 4th gen Camaro, and even the famous Fox Mustang that came out in '79, but by '82 was but a shadow of it's 1st year. Same happened with the Probe (both 1 &2) the Cougar, the 80s era Daytona, and most other coupes you pull up the sales chart on.

The 2009 Mustang will mark the current design's FIFTH season.... yes, already.

The other thing about coupe sales is that they can suddenly skyrocket for seemingly no reason whatsoever. September 2005, Mustang sales jumpped 73%



Now....
For everyone's entertainment....
Camaro & Mustang sales:

Notes:
1. Cobra production from 1965-1969 is not included (it was counted as a separate line by Ford).
2. Numbers preceded by an asterik (*) designates a redesigned .
3. I didn't include Firebird or Capri figures though they are similar cars. With Ford having only 4000 dealers to Chevrolet's 5000, I don't need to!!

Year: Mustang/Camaro
64:*121,583/NA
65: 559,451/NA
66: 607,568/NA
67: 474,121/*220,906
68: 317,404/ 235,147
69: 299,824/ *243,065
70: 190,727/ 124,901
71:*149,678/*114,630
72: 125,093/ 114,630 (not a typo!)
73: 134,867/ 96,751
74:*385,993/ 151,008
75: 188,575/ 145,770
76: 187,567/ 182,959
77: 153,173/ 218,858
78: 192,410/ 272,631
79:*369,936/ 282,571
80: 271,322/ 152,005
81: 181,552/ 126,139
82: 130,418/*189,747
83: 120,873/ 154,318
84: 135,678/ 261,591
85: 156,514/ 180,018
86: 224,410/ 192,219
87: 159,145/ 137,760
88: 211,225/ 96,275
89: 209,769/ 110,850
90: 128,189/ 35,048
91: 98,737/ 101,316
92: 79,280/ 70,712
93: 114,228/ *39,755
94:*123,198/ 119,934
95: 185,986/ 122,844
96: 126,483/ 66,827
97: 100,254/ 95,812
98: 170,642/ 77,198
99: *126,067/ 42,098
00: 218,525/ 45,417
01: 155,162/ 29,009
(01 production stopped May 2001. 2002 Camaro had an extended run: June 2001-August 2002)
02: 142,404/42,089
03: 153,134/-0-
04: 141,907/-0-
05: *165,762/-0-

Total 1965-2001: 7,899,556/ 4,821,768

Ford plans to produce only 45,000 Mustangs for the shortened 2009 model year.

http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7419&highlight=camaro+mustang+production+figures
Total 1965-2001: 7,899,556/ 4,821,768

Notice after the 85 refresh on the Mustang that the numbers went up. It was just a minor refresh, but not noted in your figures, and neither was the aero exterior and new interior of 87 and the increases in sales in 88-89.

Your opinion is likely in the minority or at least an extremely rare and extreme opinion....... how many were sold?????

They sold around 2 million. :D

guionM, thanks for posting the sales numbers. It certainly looks like f-body benefited from the "Smokey & The Bandit" movie in the late 70's.

Wha? the 87 Grand National? the GNX? the 89 Turbo Trans Am? Those were definately incredible, sexy machines. Damn, I miss my 87 GN. :(

Don't mean to offend, but I think the 87 Grand National was pretty ugly...I do like the Trans Am, and the Camaro, but again, there aren't many that I do like. I guess I'm just too young to appreciate them. :)

Is it just me, or are were '79-'94 Mustangs the UGLIEST cars ever made. Maybe not EVER, but they were hideous.

I'm not a Mustang fan by any stretch. Ok, I can appreciate them, but generally I just hate them. That being said, 86 GT or SVO or an 88-92 LX 5.0 hatch are pretty good looking cars.

guionM, could you post a similar year-by-year breakdown of the sales numbers showing the F-body (including firebird) vs. Mustang.

Most people I know would include both the Camaro and Firebird when comparing the two and I think that is pretty fare. I bet the numbers look a little different when you look at it that way. Thanks.

I'm not a Mustang fan by any stretch. Ok, I can appreciate them, but generally I just hate them. That being said, 86 GT or SVO or an 88-92 LX 5.0 hatch are pretty good looking cars.

I agree. They surely weren't ugly, but they definitely weren't pretty either. I would say they were mean looking. Definitely not a car you look at and say, "damn, that's sexy".

Mustang / Camaro + Firebird = Total F-Bodies
64:*121,583/NA
65: 559,451/NA
66: 607,568/NA
67: 474,121/ *220,906 + 82,560 = 303,466
68: 317,404/ 235,147 + 107,112 = 342,259
69: 299,824/ *243,065 + 87,716 = 330,781
70: 190,727/ 124,901 + 48,739 = 173,640
71:*149,678/ *114,630 + 53,124 = 167,754
72: 125,093/ 114,630 + 29,951 = 144,581
73: 134,867/ 96,751 + 46,313 = 143,064
74:*385,993/ 151,008 + 73,729 = 224,737
75: 188,575/ 145,770 + 84,063 = 229,883
76: 187,567/ 182,959 + 110,775 = 293,734
77: 153,173/ 218,858 + 155,736 = 374,597
78: 192,410/ 272,631 + 197,285 = 484,085
79:*369,936/ 282,571 + 211,454 = 494,025
80: 271,322/ 152,005 + 107,340 = 259,345
81: 181,552/ 126,139 + 70,889 = 197,028
82: 130,418/ *189,747 + 116,362 = 306,109
83: 120,873/ 154,318 + 74,884 = 229,202
84: 135,678/ 261,591 + 128,304 = 389,895
85: 156,514/ 180,018 + 95,880 = 290,481
86: 224,410/ 192,219 + 110,463 = 302,682
87: 159,145/ 137,760 + 88,612 = 226,372
88: 211,225/ 96,275 + 62,455 = 158,730
89: 209,769/ 110,850 + 64,404 = 174,984
90: 128,189/ 35,048 + 20,553 = 55,601
91: 98,737/ 101,316 + 50,234 = 151,550
92: 79,280/ 70,712 + 27,567 = 98,279
93: 114,228/ *39,755 + 14,112 = 53,867
94:*123,198/ 119,934 + 45,992 = 165,926
95: 185,986/ 122,844 + 50,986 = 152,941
96: 126,483/ 66,827 + 30,097 = 96,924
97: 100,254/ 95,812 + 30,754 = 126,566
98: 170,642/ 77,198 + 32,155 = 109,353
99: *126,067/ 42,098 + 32,209 = 74,307
00: 218,525/ 45,417 + 31,826 = 77,243
01: 155,162/ 29,009 + 21,436 = 50,455
02: 142,404/ 42,089 + 30,690 = 72,779
03: 153,134/-0-
04: 141,907/-0-
05: *165,762/-0-

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f20/firebird-production-61258/ for the Firebird production numbers.

Ford sold 369,000 79' mustangs'??

i think everyone is giving the general public too much credit about waiting for next years mustang freshening. The general public has no idea of such things. the drop off is because all cars are not selling right now with the summers gas prices, and the bank situation.

Mustang / Camaro + Firebird = Total F-Bodies
64:*121,583/NA
65: 559,451/NA
66: 607,568/NA
67: 474,121/ *220,906 + 82,560 = 303,466
68: 317,404/ 235,147 + 107,112 = 342,259
69: 299,824/ *243,065 + 87,716 = 330,781
70: 190,727/ 124,901 + 48,739 = 173,640
71:*149,678/ *114,630 + 53,124 = 167,754
72: 125,093/ 114,630 + 29,951 = 144,581
73: 134,867/ 96,751 + 46,313 = 143,064
74:*385,993/ 151,008 + 73,729 = 224,737
75: 188,575/ 145,770 + 84,063 = 229,883
76: 187,567/ 182,959 + 110,775 = 293,734
77: 153,173/ 218,858 + 155,736 = 374,597
78: 192,410/ 272,631 + 197,285 = 484,085
79:*369,936/ 282,571 + 211,454 = 494,025
80: 271,322/ 152,005 + 107,340 = 259,345
81: 181,552/ 126,139 + 70,889 = 197,028
82: 130,418/ *189,747 + 116,362 = 306,109
83: 120,873/ 154,318 + 74,884 = 229,202
84: 135,678/ 261,591 + 128,304 = 389,895
85: 156,514/ 180,018 + 95,880 = 290,481
86: 224,410/ 192,219 + 110,463 = 302,682
87: 159,145/ 137,760 + 88,612 = 226,372
88: 211,225/ 96,275 + 62,455 = 158,730
89: 209,769/ 110,850 + 64,404 = 174,984
90: 128,189/ 35,048 + 20,553 = 55,601
91: 98,737/ 101,316 + 50,234 = 151,550
92: 79,280/ 70,712 + 27,567 = 98,279
93: 114,228/ *39,755 + 14,112 = 53,867
94:*123,198/ 119,934 + 45,992 = 165,926
95: 185,986/ 122,844 + 50,986 = 152,941
96: 126,483/ 66,827 + 30,097 = 96,924
97: 100,254/ 95,812 + 30,754 = 126,566
98: 170,642/ 77,198 + 32,155 = 109,353
99: *126,067/ 42,098 + 32,209 = 74,307
00: 218,525/ 45,417 + 31,826 = 77,243
01: 155,162/ 29,009 + 21,436 = 50,455
02: 142,404/ 42,089 + 30,690 = 72,779
03: 153,134/-0-
04: 141,907/-0-
05: *165,762/-0-

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f20/firebird-production-61258/ for the Firebird production numbers.

That's more like it! I get so tired of hearing how the Mustang always dominated the "Camaro" in sales. Well,if the Firebird did not exist, many more people would have bought Camaro's. In my opinion you have to compare F-body sales to Mustang sales, but that is just my opinion. When you do that, the F-body is king in just about all but the last years.

Thanks Rob V.

Wow, i never knew the F-body got owned so bad by Mustang sales. Hopefully it'll be the other way around next year.

Wow, i never knew the F-body got owned so bad by Mustang sales. Hopefully it'll be the other way around next year.

Who cares the mustang is gay.

Who cares the mustang is gay.

Why...does it fornicate with other Mustangs?

Sorry...hate that phrase.

Wow, i never knew the F-body got owned so bad by Mustang sales. Hopefully it'll be the other way around next year.

I think you read the list wrong?

The F-body owned the Mustang in all but the last few years and a scattered year or two.

To be completely fair you'd also have to add in Mercury Capri numbers on Ford's side as well. ;)

To be completely fair you'd also have to add in Mercury Capri numbers on Ford's side as well. ;)

Awesome! Who's got the numbers....

While I think the Camaro and Firebird are far more similar than the Mustang and Capri, I think it perfectly fair to include them.

I think you read the list wrong?

The F-body owned the Mustang in all but the last few years and a scattered year or two.

No, i didn't read the list wrong i'm just pointing out the fact that the F-body is 2 cars and the mustang is 1 car and the sales were still close. So lets see, 2 cars in production barely beat 1 car for 38 years in sales equals :Owned:

guionM, thanks for posting the sales numbers. It certainly looks like f-body benefited from the "Smokey & The Bandit" movie in the late 70's.

You gotta talk to someone who was at least a teenager in the 70s, Steve. ;)

When the fuel crisis kicked in, Camaros and Firebirds were on the same level as economy cars, and sales went up. Also, if you want, I can post numbers of Trans Am sales that show them virturally doubling every year starting in 1972.

Smokey & The Bandit came out in the summer of 1977 (the 1978s were already in production) using a car that was already popular in performance circles and was also already increasing in popularity.

A few months after Smokey & the Bandit came out, the 1979 cars (including the F-bodies) hit showrooms. While Camaro sales increased about 10,000, Firebirds increased 14,000. That was the true fallout of "Smokey & the Bandit".... plus selling out of the Black & Gold "Limited Edition" Trans Ams.

As with everything in the world, the more time goes by, the more myths and legends grow. Almost to the point of being unrecognizable to what actually took place. That movie imortalized the late 70s Pontiac Trans Am for future generations, but that movie came on the tail end of the 70s era of Trans Am popularity.

The infamous T/A 6.6 was starting to become hard to get only a year later, and for the '79 model year the left over TA 6.6s were saved for the "Silver" Anniversary edition. Also worth mentioning is that Firebird sales had dropped about 50% less than 2 model years after "Smokey & the Bandit", but had doubled every year the 6 years before then.

guionM, could you post a similar year-by-year breakdown of the sales numbers showing the F-body (including firebird) vs. Mustang.

Most people I know would include both the Camaro and Firebird when comparing the two and I think that is pretty fare. I bet the numbers look a little different when you look at it that way. Thanks.

If most people you know would lump both Firebird and Camaro together when measuring against Mustang, then most of the people you know would be wrong.

Chevrolet and Ford are singular divisions within their companies. Ford traditionally has had fewer dealers than Chevrolet, so there's already a built in advantage.

Finally, if we were to lump both F-bodies together, then we would completely change the subject. It would be corperate coupes against corperate coupes. Mustang could be lumped together with Cougars, Capris, and even some Thunderbirds since they ware all at one time or another essentially the same car, as would Barracuda and Challenger.

Did GM make more F body coupes than Ford made Fox body coupes? How did Chrysler E-cars compare with Falcon platform Mustang coupes?

It's always been Ford vs Chevrolet.

It's never been Ford versus Chevrolet + Pontiac... x Oldsmobile ÷ Cadillac - GMC qver the square root of Opel.

You gotta talk to someone who was at least a teenager in the 70s, Steve. ;)

When the fuel crisis kicked in, Camaros and Firebirds were on the same level as economy cars, and sales went up. Also, if you want, I can post numbers of Trans Am sales that show them virturally doubling every year starting in 1972.

Smokey & The Bandit came out in the summer of 1977 (the 1978s were already in production) using a car that was already popular in performance circles and was also already increasing in popularity.

A few months after Smokey & the Bandit came out, the 1979 cars (including the F-bodies) hit showrooms. While Camaro sales increased about 10,000, Firebirds increased 14,000. That was the true fallout of "Smokey & the Bandit".... plus selling out of the Black & Gold "Limited Edition" Trans Ams.

As with everything in the world, the more time goes by, the more myths and legends grow. Almost to the point of being unrecognizable to what actually took place. That movie imortalized the late 70s Pontiac Trans Am for future generations, but that movie came on the tail end of the 70s era of Trans Am popularity.

The infamous T/A 6.6 was starting to become hard to get only a year later, and for the '79 model year the left over TA 6.6s were saved for the "Silver" Anniversary edition. Also worth mentioning is that Firebird sales had dropped about 50% less than 2 model years after "Smokey & the Bandit", but had doubled every year the 6 years before then.

Trust me! I was well past my teens when the Smokie movie came out. :D

Seems to be a whole line of used Mustangs at our local Ford dealer.
Kinda like Harleys.