Best Cam For An LS1 Engine???

I was wondering what is a good Cam for a LS1 Camaro with a M6 Trans and 4.10 Gear's??I want a Cam that can still get great gas mileage because this will me a 99.9% street car.I would want to get the heads redone or get better Heads at some point.I have heard of the F13 AND F14 cams but am to not familiar with them.

I think you should go smaller than that if you're just using it as a street car and want good mpg.

The F11 or even Thunder Racing's TR224 cam would be a better bet I'd think. Call Allan up at FMS and get them to recommend something to you.

224/224 .581/.581 114+4. The Thunder Racing TR224 has less lift with a shorter lobe. If you want stock type driveability, try a Lingenfelter GT2-3 207/220 .571/.578 118.5 or even an LS7 cam which is like 211/230 (Not sure of lift).

Ultimately, though, it is dependant on the combo you have.

-Geoff

or you could go for a 2002-2004 Zo6 cam: 204/218, .525/.525, 117.5 LSA (I think?) its very close to that. Nice smooth idle with that wide lobe separation...and it will still pass smog :)

i have the TR224-112 with 4.10s on a 6spd. looooove the combo. give me smiles everytime i start her up still

I was wondering what is a good Cam for a LS1 Camaro with a M6 Trans and 4.10 Gear's??I want a Cam that can still get great gas mileage because this will me a 99.9% street car.I would want to get the heads redone or get better Heads at some point.I have heard of the F13 AND F14 cams but am to not familiar with them.

You have your cam spec'd out around your heads/mods not the other way around.

I would go with a custom cam by Bret Bauer, Ed Curtis (both on hardcorels1), or Patrick G, Predator Z (on LS1tech).

Give them your current mods/goals and they will hook you up. :)

I am not a fan of "off the shelf" cams, as they are usually a compromise at best. As most of these guys will say: Buy the best heads you can afford, THEN have a cam spec'd out that will work with those heads. Best way to do it IMO.

i have the TR224-112 with 4.10s on a 6spd. looooove the combo. give me smiles everytime i start her up still

Well I just got rid of my 69 Camaro with a 402 Big Block and that Cam was a 595/595 lift Cam.It was very hard to get to idle and needed the 4.10 gear's.With the TR224-112 and 581/581 lift is that going to compromise fuel economy badly.Also for the LS1 engine that Cam would still be bigger because the motor is smaller unless Im wrong.I know it will have less bottom end power which I don't mind.I don't want to make the mistake of putting a Cam in there that takes away the driveabilty I want.I know the old carburated no overdrive first Generation Camaro's had terrible driveability and thats why I sold mine.

Well I just got rid of my 69 Camaro with a 402 Big Block and that Cam was a 595/595 lift Cam.It was very hard to get to idle and needed the 4.10 gear's.With the TR224-112 and 581/581 lift is that going to compromise fuel economy badly.Also for the LS1 engine that Cam would still be bigger because the motor is smaller unless Im wrong.I know it will have less bottom end power which I don't mind.I don't want to make the mistake of putting a Cam in there that takes away the driveabilty I want.I know the old carburated no overdrive first Generation Camaro's had terrible driveability and thats why I sold mine.

i drove it through the gustav evac from new orleans to oxford, al in 22 hrs (14 of which was going under 10mph, which ment in/out in/out in/out in/out in/out in/out... you get the point) and my leg didnt hurt much, other than doing that in any car would hurt. and ran fine. the 4.10s do more than make up for it from a stop.

i got 29mpg hwy on the way back from al bc it was 6th gear cruising the entire time... 70mph still 1500-1600, not bad. 90 is 1900rpm. i avg about 16 city, and thats with almost no interstate mixed in(i do put put around)

Well I just got rid of my 69 Camaro with a 402 Big Block and that Cam was a 595/595 lift Cam.It was very hard to get to idle and needed the 4.10 gear's.With the TR224-112 and 581/581 lift is that going to compromise fuel economy badly.Also for the LS1 engine that Cam would still be bigger because the motor is smaller unless Im wrong.

Trying to put it nicely, actually you are wrong. The lift numbers don't have anything to do with how a cam idles or fuel consumption. The idle is determined by the valve events and timing and not just the LSA either. Drivability and mileage will also depend heavily on the tune, much like the old school cars depended on the carb setup.

Your 4.10 gears will hurt your mileage more than most any cam will. You should look for something in the mid to high 220's with very high 500's lift. The LS1 motor seems to like split or reverse durations as well, much different from the old school motors.

The TR and Futral cams are definitely not "off the shelf" cams. There has been a lot of research and fine tuning put into all of them in all kinds of different cars. That's why I said to call Allan at Futral and see what they recommend. If you don't like them, try Thunder, but I'd recommend Futral 10/10 times before TR.

Trying to put it nicely, actually you are wrong. The lift numbers don't have anything to do with how a cam idles or fuel consumption. The idle is determined by the valve events and timing and not just the LSA either. Drivability and mileage will also depend heavily on the tune, much like the old school cars depended on the carb setup.

Your 4.10 gears will hurt your mileage more than most any cam will. You should look for something in the mid to high 220's with very high 500's lift. The LS1 motor seems to like split or reverse durations as well, much different from the old school motors.

The TR and Futral cams are definitely not "off the shelf" cams. There has been a lot of research and fine tuning put into all of them in all kinds of different cars. That's why I said to call Allan at Futral and see what they recommend. If you don't like them, try Thunder, but I'd recommend Futral 10/10 times before TR.

I thought a TR224 cam with 3.73 Gear's wouldn't work as well as a 4.10 would .Also the car still gets good gas mileage with the M6.At least thats what I hear.I never heard of the Futral Cams.

I thought a TR224 cam with 3.73 Gear's wouldn't work as well as a 4.10 would .Also the car still gets good gas mileage with the M6.At least thats what I hear.I never heard of the Futral Cams.

You have to call up Thunder and ask them about what gears work better with the cam. I think Mike still works the desk there. What works for one person may not work for the other.

You mentioned the F13 and F14 in your original post: the "F" stands for Futral Motorsports. Google him to find his site because I'm not sure if I can link it here since he isn't a sponsor.

You have to call up Thunder and ask them about what gears work better with the cam. I think Mike still works the desk there. What works for one person may not work for the other.

You mentioned the F13 and F14 in your original post: the "F" stands for Futral Motorsports. Google him to find his site because I'm not sure if I can link it here since he isn't a sponsor.

I didn't know that the F13,F14 Cams were that big.I know I came across a thread saying that these Cams worked best with a 4.30 or a 4.56 Gear.No way would I put a Gear like that in a pure street car.I believe the Camshaft is the most critical part of the engine.I know having the best Heads is equally important when installing a Cam.I heard a sound clip on a recent previous thread on here of the F14 Cam which sounded really mean, but Im more into 2500 RPM's to 6500 RPM's.One of the worst things to do is go to big on a Cam especially for a non drag car.

You shouldn't be trying to match the cam to the gears I don't think. That's the wrong way to go about it. If you already have 4.10 gears then just get whatever cam you want.

When someone says they "work best" with whatever gears, it tells me right away they don't know what they're talking about. For a DD, what works best is what feels best to the driver. On the track, what works best is a gear that matches your trans, tune, tires and engine package to max out performance in 1/4 mile.

You shouldn't be trying to match the cam to the gears I don't think. That's the wrong way to go about it. If you already have 4.10 gears then just get whatever cam you want.

When someone says they "work best" with whatever gears, it tells me right away they don't know what they're talking about. For a DD, what works best is what feels best to the driver. On the track, what works best is a gear that matches your trans, tune, tires and engine package to max out performance in 1/4 mile.

That makes sense.Thats why I didn't want to go to big on the Cam.Even the TR 224 Cam is relatively big compared to the LS1's engine size.I also want a Cam that works well with nitrous but i have heard any Cam basically will work quite well.

224 duration is a medium sized cam for the LSx motors at best, but it's relatively small. I'd really advise you to get updated with these newer motors because they are completely different than the old school motors you seem to be used to working with.

Nitrous cams I know very little about, but if you aren't spraying over a 200 shot and aren't racing, then you shouldn't even worry about a "nitrous" cam.

Even the TR 224 Cam is relatively big compared to the LS1's engine size.

i dont care how much experiance you have with engines, a 224 is not a big cam. i have it, and if that is considered a "big cam" well... any cam is big then, bc it surely isnt :) its a DD for me, and its easy. too bad you dont live near new orleans, or if let you drive mne, and then youd see what i mean.

i dont care how much experiance you have with engines, a 224 is not a big cam. i have it, and if that is considered a "big cam" well... any cam is big then, bc it surely isnt :) its a DD for me, and its easy. too bad you dont live near new orleans, or if let you drive mne, and then youd see what i mean.

I didn't say it was big.I meant if you compared that to the older small block engine's.I don't know much about the LS1's.Doyou think your 224 cam is a bit tamel or just right for the street?? I just care about the street performance but I would like to get around 450 RWHP.Also what gear's do you have?? The worst thing is putting a cam in that is too big for Daily Driving usage.That can be done with almost any motor.

I didn't say it was big.I meant if you compared that to the older small block engine's.I don't know much about the LS1's.Doyou think your 224 cam is a bit tamel or just right for the street?? I just care about the street performance but I would like to get around 450 RWHP.Also what gear's do you have?? The worst thing is putting a cam in that is too big for Daily Driving usage.That can be done with almost any motor.

well for starters.. forgot the heads, but a buddy of mine has the same cam but also had heads and he dynoed 415rwhp on a dynojet. (tuned/installed at thunder racing), and for the cam only anyway... very streetable. i love this thing. :yes: :cool: recomend it to anyone that asks what cam to go with.

and i have 4.10s.... on a 6spd all i can say is that it is more than streetable. atleast with the 224.. dont be worried about that

cam specs for the lsx engine are leaps and bounds diffferent from old sbc specs.

for some generalized numbers:
small cam < 220 duration and .575" lift
mild cam 220-230 duration up to almost .600" lift
moderate cam 230-235 or so, with .600-.610" lift
big cam 235-245 duration with upwards of .640" lift

and all those are hydrolic lifters still.

I didn't say it was big.I meant if you compared that to the older small block engine's.

You're going about this the wrong way. Build a stock displacement LS1 like you would an aggressive 400 inch SBC.

You'll be hard pressed to get 450rwhp out of a 224 cam, even with ALL the bolt-ons and top of the line heads with lots of compression.

You're going about this the wrong way. Build a stock displacement LS1 like you would an aggressive 400 inch SBC.

You'll be hard pressed to get 450rwhp out of a 224 cam, even with ALL the bolt-ons and top of the line heads with lots of compression.

I would want the compression right where the stock LS1's are.I don't want to have to put anything more then 93 octane in it.Maybe I should shoot for 415-425 RWHP.

I would want the compression right where the stock LS1's are.I don't want to have to put anything more then 93 octane in it.Maybe I should shoot for 415-425 RWHP.

Again... :mad: This is not 1969. We do not drive inefficient iron pigs anymore. I like many other run much higher compression on 93 octane. My engine is at 11.7:1, and runs fine on 92 and 93 octane even with aggressive timing. Attention to detail and careful tuning and you can run 12:1. With all the LS1's attributes, you can run what traditionally would be considered too mcuh compression, too much cam, or too much cylinder head. The engine laughs at it. You can build a 12:1 346 cubic inch, 230cc intake runner, 240 degree duration cam with 1 7/8" header primaries. This engine will make awesome power and do it with 20+ mpg, all while maintaining drivabliity BETTER than ANYTHING that came out of the era you seem so stuck on.

Don't get so mad at the guy for not really understanding these new engines. It's a huge leap to go from the original chevy motors to today's tech. I agree he needs to do a LOT of reading about his new car, but let's not berate him for that.

Again... :mad: This is not 1969. We do not drive inefficient iron pigs anymore. I like many other run much higher compression on 93 octane. My engine is at 11.7:1, and runs fine on 92 and 93 octane even with aggressive timing. Attention to detail and careful tuning and you can run 12:1. With all the LS1's attributes, you can run what traditionally would be considered too mcuh compression, too much cam, or too much cylinder head. The engine laughs at it. You can build a 12:1 346 cubic inch, 230cc intake runner, 240 degree duration cam with 1 7/8" header primaries. This engine will make awesome power and do it with 20+ mpg, all while maintaining drivabliity BETTER than ANYTHING that came out of the era you seem so stuck on.

Im finished with all the older cars as if you can see that I have recently sold my 69 Camaro 396.I don't know what your all mad at:mad:.I was drawn to the LS1 because of its attribute's.You have the complete opposite opinion.Im stuck on the newer Camaro's.I don't care how nice the 69's were, getting 6 miles to the gallon and having a car that just sits in a garage just plain sucks!!Thats why I got rid of it and yes it was a inefficient iron pig.Not only that but the LS1 is faster,handle's better and thats really all I care about:).I didn't know that these Ls1's could run 11.7:1 compression on pump gas.Driveabilty is the key word because sometimes guy's will Mod any car out for the quarter mile while I want a wickedly fast street car.There comes a point in every NA car that the more compression,cam means lower driveabilty.So I guess 11.7:1 is ideal for an LS1 street engine even in the middle of summer??

Im finished with all the older cars as if you can see that I have recently sold my 69 Camaro 396.I don't know what your all mad at:mad:.I was drawn to the LS1 because of its attribute's.You have the complete opposite opinion.Im stuck on the newer Camaro's.I don't care how nice the 69's were, getting 6 miles to the gallon and having a car that just sits in a garage just plain sucks!!Thats why I got rid of it and yes it was a inefficient iron pig.Not only that but the LS1 is faster,handle's better and thats really all I care about:).I didn't know that these Ls1's could run 11.7:1 compression on pump gas.Driveabilty is the key word because sometimes guy's will Mod any car out for the quarter mile while I want a wickedly fast street car.There comes a point in every NA car that the more compression,cam means lower driveabilty.So I guess 11.7:1 is ideal for an LS1 street engine even in the middle of summer??

I've been running that compression on 93 octane for nearly 2 years now on a stock bottom end, with no problems. Even in 100+ summer heat with high humidity.

I'm really not angry... It's just that the posts are becoming very repetitive. It's the same stuff over and over. Basic stuff that was answered a decade ago, and is readily available with a simple search. That and the constant reminders of the 69 396 Camaro. Most of us here gained our knowledge by reading the available information (as opposed to a weekly post) and then backing it with firsthand experience.

I've been running that compression on 93 octane for nearly 2 years now on a stock bottom end, with no problems. Even in 100+ summer heat with high humidity.

I'm really not angry... It's just that the posts are becoming very repetitive. It's the same stuff over and over. Basic stuff that was answered a decade ago, and is readily available with a simple search. That and the constant reminders of the 69 396 Camaro. Most of us here gained our knowledge by reading the available information (as opposed to a weekly post) and then backing it with firsthand experience.

Can a nitrous system work safely with that 11.7:1 compression with 93 octane pump gas??

Can a nitrous system work safely with that 11.7:1 compression with 93 octane pump gas??

Yes.

Can a nitrous system work safely with that 11.7:1 compression with 93 octane pump gas??

Nitrous loves compression. It is not like FI.

Nitrous loves compression. It is not like FI.

I was wondering with a healthy moderate to big cam for every 50 horsepower usually ignition timing needs to get turned down around 2 degree's for every 50 Horsepower added, unless this does not apply to the LS1's.If running a 150 shot that would be 6 degree's off of timing.I was wondering would this create a problem with the Idling?? I had a similar problem in 2 prior car's with backing off the timing 6 degree's. I'd probably pick something close to a F13 cam.

You'd have to ask that specific question in another thread in the N20 Tech forum here. I know more people run dry shots with pcm tuning on the LSx motors than older motors.

I was wondering with a healthy moderate to big cam for every 50 horsepower usually ignition timing needs to get turned down around 2 degree's for every 50 Horsepower added, unless this does not apply to the LS1's.If running a 150 shot that would be 6 degree's off of timing.I was wondering would this create a problem with the Idling?? I had a similar problem in 2 prior car's with backing off the timing 6 degree's. I'd probably pick something close to a F13 cam.

There's a box out there called a timing tuner that will pull timing only when the NO2 is engaged. The rest of the time the timing is normal.

Can a nitrous system work safely with that 11.7:1 compression with 93 octane pump gas??

Yes, even with stock pistons. However it will require a small shot with a perfect tune and heavily retarded timing.

The timing issue you refer to is usually not for big cams, but for nitrous use. Maybe on some platforms you may want to pull back some timing for an aggressive cam, but thats because most of those platforms have horrible combustion chambers that need a TON of timing (low 40s in some cases) to make power. LS1s on the other hand make their power with only 26-28 degrees.