6,000 Sold Orders to Date

"To date we have accepted over 6000 sold orders, 84% of which are SS. We will not be able to build in this model mix, so make sure you are setting your customer's expectations correctly to avoid the high potential for dissatisfaction. But keep taking sold orders !!!!!!!!!!!!

Remember, the allocation number we have given you is for the first 20,000 built covering production thru September. If things go right we will far surpass that number by year end."

Orders to date:

LS: 2%
1LT: 4%
2LT: 10%
1SS: 7%
2SS: 77%

This is supposedly a letter from GM to a dealer. Not sure of the validity. Any one have any thoughts?

Hopefully once the word on public street gets out and people can drive it,
more people will go towards the V6 side.
Vert will help that as well.

(IIRC the Mustang GT had a lot of pre-orders as well which is to be expected)

So they want dealers to tell people not to order the SS model..... what did they expect in pre-orders, base model V6's? Thats not what people are going to pre-order, thats not what they were waiting for for... 6+ years... They should make what people want... as usual though thats something difficult for GM to understand?

The V6 models will sell on their own merit once they are hitting lots...

that fully explains GM's problems..if that is not socialism i do not know what it is...some idiot at GM telling dealers to stear potential customers into a V6 because we just cannot have that...geez...what idiots is GM employing...i would be happy as hell for those sales numbers regardless if the vast majority of buyers wanted a honking V8 and not a miserly V6....yep that letter sums up the current state of GM nicely

I can see why the 2SS would be in demand... All the enthusiasts are aware of the early order program and have placed orders. All the rest of the world is blissfully unaware and will buy off the lots.

There's also a number of dealers that are waiting to place their orders until open ordering begins. This is mentioned on GMlaunches.com where they say there is no difference between ordering now and holding them until open ordering. The only reason they are accepting orders now is to get an idea of build potential. Which is kind of ridiculous considering what has already been pointed out about enthusiasts being the only ones that are very aware of the Camaro and where it is in production phase.

"we will not be able to build this model mix" what does that mean?

"we will not be able to build this model mix" what does that mean?


They can't build that many V8's versus that many V6's based on whatever reason they have.

CAFE reasons, manufacturing process reasons, parts inventory reaosn, etc etc etc etc

I'm sure it has to do with logistics and inventory. I thought they were prepared for a 50/50 run but were expecting the V6 to sell more. If they don't have LS3's, SS facias and 6L80's at the plant then they can't build SS's. It's as simple as that. I'm sure they are now trying to fill these orders and make provisions but there maybe a delay on SS's. You have to except some hiccups with a launch of a such a vehicle.

Of course they cant build a mix of 84% SS. That would be crazy. The V6 will be our best seller. The ratio of V6 to V8 wont be as high (e.g. 70%V6/30%V8) as for the mustang because Camaro guys are performance guys(=V8. Even though you get great performance with our V6 also) And Mustang guys are actually high school girls. Im just wondering if those of us who already ordered an SS will have to wait a little longer to get it. Im thinking they knew that most of the enthusiasts that are pre-ordering were gonna go with the SS.

Starting to sound like there will be restraints on V8 orders. Glad I ordered the LT/RS.

some idiot at GM telling dealers to stear potential customers into a V6 because we just cannot have that...geez...what idiots is GM employing...

Yikes, calm down Sparky. Nowhere in that letter does it say "steer customers toward the V6", quite the contrary, it is encouraging dealers to continue taking SS orders. It is only telling dealers to warn their customers ordering SS models that they may need to wait longer to receive their cars because Chevy cannot built that many V8 cars right off the bat.

If the letter and ratios are authentic I am not surprised. The people who have been saving cash expressly for the purpose of buying a new Camaro are the people who want the V8. Much like the Mustang in 2005, V6s will begin to gain traction after launch.

sounds like fuel for dealers to spike the price of any SS.

i'm glad i have it in writing as to MSRP + t.t.t. , plus i am the first on my dealers list on 10/13. so the sooner, the better.

If they could not anticipate an overwhelming demand for V8's off the bat, they are truly idiots. They better re-tool their game plan to accomodate, because if I have to wait until August to receive my car when I ordered it on 10/13, I am going to be beyond pissed. :mad:

Its totally unacceptable to have such an unfavorable split for V8's off the bat, I don't care what the reason is.

OK..once again - calm down.

(and I NEED TO CALM down because I want to wring the person's neck that put this message out to dealers -- and the person within the dealership that put the message out to YOU.......)

FIRST -- the number of units mentioned that we will produce is WRONG........we'll build more units than that barring any unforseen circumstances or work stoppages. (and I put that last line in there because NO ONE knows what will happen tomorrow.......)

SECOND -- we want each of you behind the steering wheel of your new Camaro........MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT..........LET ME SAY THAT AGAIN -- MAKE --- NO -- MISTAKE -- ABOUT -- IT...............
(...now go read it again!)

THIRD-- anyone who has any production planning management experience will understand that you do NOT tool to build 100 percent of anything when you offer choices -- NO ONE DOES . Let me say that again NO -- ONE -- DOES.............

The hardest thing (In my opinion) that we have to do is to forecast option load.........and I dare anyone on here to predict what the car will sell in terms of option load in the 2011 model year -

We are in FINE SHAPE right now. IF -- and that's a HUGE 'IF" the orders HAD come in at 100% SS -- and EVERY allocation had been spoken for (and that has not happened....) then we'd have some concern..........

So -- calm down.

Not everyone at GM is a walking moron.

Don't believe everything you read --esp. when you have no idea of the source.

REPEAT AFTER ME: WE WANT YOU BEHIND THE STEERING WHEELS OF YOUR NEW CAMAROS...............

Now -- one more favor:

DURING THE NEXT 'PANIC DU JOUR' -- (which, I'm confident will happen within the next few minutes........)

..........would you PLEASE just STOP for a minute and think:

"........Perhaps -- just perhaps -- GM has done this for many years -- and perhaps - just perhaps -- they know what they're doing -- and perhaps --just perhaps they DO care about us as evidenced by Fbodfather coming out here and calming us down every other day............."

and then think:

" I'd better be careful or Fbodfather just MAY have a stroke and die and IF he DIES he's gonna come back to haunt me with an entire fleet of black Suburbans...........and my life will be 'kaakaa'......"

So......let's PLEASE -- (I'm begging you......) STOP with the "Panic Du Jours"..........please?????


Thank you!

Now -- back to our regularly scheduled programming..........

that fully explains GM's problems..if that is not socialism i do not know what it is...some idiot at GM telling dealers to stear potential customers into a V6 because we just cannot have that...geez...what idiots is GM employing...i would be happy as hell for those sales numbers regardless if the vast majority of buyers wanted a honking V8 and not a miserly V6....yep that letter sums up the current state of GM nicely

if you're going to make a statement like that:

May I ask you to enlighten everyone on this board as to how CAFE is calculated and the effects it has on the 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014 model years?


I don't mean to be harsh, but I don't appreciate being called an idiot.

Do you have any Production Planning Experience? If not, may I please ask you to tone it down?

They can't build that many V8's versus that many V6's based on whatever reason they have.

CAFE reasons, manufacturing process reasons, parts inventory reaosn, etc etc etc etc

cafe doesnt go into effect for a few years. that should have nothing to do tih it. they plann on selling 80,000 to 100,000 and their saying they have already met the amount of v8 they plan on producing? im calling BS here.

cafe doesnt go into effect for a few years. that should have nothing to do tih it. they plann on selling 80,000 to 100,000 and their saying they have already met the amount of v8 they plan on producing? im calling BS here.


The CAFE changes do not go into effect untilt he next few years, but there are CAFE numbers to be dealt with right now.

:lol: The Camaro news is like the stock market news nowadays. One headline erupts from the peanut gallery, and suddenly there are people screaming, spilling popcorn and drinks all over.

May I suggest we all get out of GM's kitchen and let them work?

...And when FBodFather asks, "Do you like nuts?!" You better answer!

The CAFE changes do not go into effect untilt he next few years, but there are CAFE numbers to be dealt with right now.
yes but obviously its nothing that cant be handled. especially if dodge can make a challanger srt10. i think were fine.

Even without Scott's intervention, I would have questioned the authenticity of the original message simply because it contained a string of twelve consecutive exclamation points, and I'm sure that GM isn't employing 14-year-old girls in whatever department is responsible for dealer relations.

Even without Scott's intervention, I would have questioned the authenticity of the original message simply because it contained a string of twelve consecutive exclamation points, and I'm sure that GM isn't employing 14-year-old girls in whatever department is responsible for dealer relations.

:lol:

yes but obviously its nothing that cant be handled. especially if dodge can make a challanger srt10. i think were fine.


I don't get what you are trying to say....

If you think GM planned for and could actually build out an 84+ % V8 vs V6 buildout on Camaro for the entire model year and not have some sort of effect on their corporate CAFE figures, I'd have to say I think you just might be incorrect.

If you point is other than that, I am missing it.

You point out Challenger STR8 (not SRT10).......... do you think Chrysler has planned for an 84+% SRT8 buildout for the Challenger model year?!?


EDIT: And they never said they have already met the number of V8's than can be built in that letter... whether it is authentic or not... they simply said they can't sustain the PERCENTAGE OF BUILD.

cafe doesnt go into effect for a few years. that should have nothing to do tih it. they plann on selling 80,000 to 100,000 and their saying they have already met the amount of v8 they plan on producing? im calling BS here.


CAFE has been in effect since the late 70s........
You are wrong.

CAFE has been in effect since the late 70s........
You are wrong.

Thats why the challenger is charged a 'gas guzzler' tax, right? Thank you GM.
More 30+ mpg cars than any one....

OK..once again - calm down.

...
REPEAT AFTER ME: WE WANT YOU BEHIND THE STEERING WHEELS OF YOUR NEW CAMAROS...............



and then think:

" I'd better be careful or Fbodfather just MAY have a stroke and die and IF he DIES he's gonna come back to haunt me with an entire fleet of black Suburbans...........and my life will be 'kaakaa'......"




:freakout::freakout::freakout: the Suburbans are coming... the Suburbans are coming...

May I ask you to enlighten everyone on this board as to how CAFE is calculated and the effects it has on the 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014 model years?




I wonder what GM might be planning for this Camaro regarding CAFE in the years beyond 2011.

I wonder what GM might be planning for this Camaro regarding CAFE in the years beyond 2011.

I wonder this too. My 2SS will be built during one of those model years.

.... and I'm sure that GM isn't employing 14-year-old girls in whatever department is responsible for dealer relations.

OMG!!!!! LOL !!!!! ROFL !!!!!

:lol::lol::lol:

For those dealer allocated a certian number of pre orders like the one I plan on going through was allocated 5. I'm #7 on the list. Will GM only be sending 5camaros to this dealership or will the allocation go up as numbers are met. Just wondering cause I want to be sitting behind the wheel of a Camaro.

Thats why the challenger is charged a 'gas guzzler' tax, right? Thank you GM.
More 30+ mpg cars than any one....

You're point? Besides your total fail in this post. All aboard the failboat!

-Geoff

CAFE has been in effect since the late 70s........


And this was why I had to pay a gas guzzler fee on my GTO.

all i can say is that. i hope GM sells a ton of SS' and just as many or more v6 camaros. as much as id hate to say it, i want camaros to be on every corner how the stang has been for the past... who knows. anyone can spice theirs up to look different.

and so i can buy mine a year or so old, and get a nice lil discount... :)

all i can say is that. i hope GM sells a ton of SS' and just as many or more v6 camaros. as much as id hate to say it, i want camaros to be on every corner how the stang has been for the past... who knows. anyone can spice theirs up to look different.

and so i can buy mine a year or so old, and get a nice lil discount... :)

Chevy will sell a ton of SS's at the get-go as evidenced by the pre-order numbers. We knew that was coming- I would sure think they did too. The enthusiasts are always the first to order and rarely do they (we) order "base". That being said, IMO, after the initial push is over, my guess is that the V6 will be the bigger seller, mostly because of the 300HP pushing it. I expect 2011 ratios to be 60-65/40-35 in favor of the V6.

if you're going to make a statement like that:

May I ask you to enlighten everyone on this board as to how CAFE is calculated and the effects it has on the 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014 model years?


I don't mean to be harsh, but I don't appreciate being called an idiot.

Do you have any Production Planning Experience? If not, may I please ask you to tone it down?

fair enuff ....but what your asking is like myself trying to have you explain a 10-16 call with 10-33 priority and 10-32 known with 1 possible 10-79 within the residence...its all good...just dont like socialism and somebody telling me what i can buy or not and that letter defiently smacks of GM trying to steer customers into vehicles they may or may not want...i would further opine that letter looks like it came from somebody at GM corporate and not from the desk of some manager at a local dealership..does not look good from where i stand...on a side note my brother just bought 2 new silverados for his business so i do thank you guys for offering employee pricing....

CAFE has been in effect since the late 70s........
You are wrong.

i was meaning the new restrictions that are supposed to be in effect in 2011 or 12

I don't get what you are trying to say....

If you think GM planned for and could actually build out an 84+ % V8 vs V6 buildout on Camaro for the entire model year and not have some sort of effect on their corporate CAFE figures, I'd have to say I think you just might be incorrect.

If you point is other than that, I am missing it.

You point out Challenger STR8 (not SRT10).......... do you think Chrysler has planned for an 84+% SRT8 buildout for the Challenger model year?!?


EDIT: And they never said they have already met the number of V8's than can be built in that letter... whether it is authentic or not... they simply said they can't sustain the PERCENTAGE OF BUILD.
could they build 84% of the 6,000 orders taken in v8 models....yes they can thats only 5,000 v8 camaros. now as far as 84% of 100,000 , no they cant. i dont know where your going with this but maybe you should quit drinking before you get on here.:lol:

You're point? Besides your total fail in this post. All aboard the failboat!

-Geoff

:cry: Wow.... My 'point' had to do with what Fbodfather said about CAFE being in affect since the late 70s, and that some muscle cars have to pay gas guzzler taxes. Thats why I said thank you to GM for giving a crap about fuel economy. The point of this thread was to let people know the ratios of what trim levels are selling. And the email that I included in the first post is legit. Scott said he wants to 'wring the neck' of who ever sent that out, and the neck of the dealer who then forwarded it to a customer. I was gonna tell you to get out of your moms basement and try and work on your people skills, but that would be rude and theres no need to be rude on here. If you dont like the thread, dont post. :)

...just dont like socialism and somebody telling me what i can buy or not and that letter defiently smacks of GM trying to steer customers into vehicles they may or may not want...i would further opine that letter looks like it came from somebody at GM corporate and not from the desk of some manager at a local dealership..does not look good from where i stand...on a side note my brother just bought 2 new silverados for his business so i do thank you guys for offering employee pricing....

I think what the person who sent this email is trying to get across (and what I 'failed' to get across also) is that if customers continue to order at this pace/ratio, they're gonna have to wait for the SS's, and that the dealer needs to be sure and let the customer know there very well could be a delay. However, I dont know the person that sent the email, and its hard to READ some ones tone so I could be way off. I am a little familiar with Fbodfather (not personally) and I think that he is a good person and I believe that he represents GMs overall views.

could they build 84% of the 6,000 orders taken in v8 models....yes they can thats only 5,000 v8 camaros. now as far as 84% of 100,000 , no they cant. i dont know where your going with this but maybe you should quit drinking before you get on here.:lol:


Erm...

Reading comprehension > you. :uhoh:

:rolleyes:

erm??

erm??

Synonym for "ummm".

I wonder this too. My 2SS will be built during one of those model years.

I wonder if you'll be paying a gas guzzler tax?

I wonder if you'll be paying a gas guzzler tax?

At that point I would assume so unless there is/are small updates to at least push fuel economy minisculely higher. But I doubt that and would probably prefer against it if performance is hindered in any shape or form.

At that point I would assume so unless there is/are small updates to at least push fuel economy minisculely higher. But I doubt that and would probably prefer against it if performance is hindered in any shape or form.


Even if the 5th gen came ONLY with a V6, it would still be a CAFE liability. Starting in 2011 it's liability in that regard will be huge - and it will increase every year thereafter.

Those are the facts.

fair enuff ....but what your asking is like myself trying to have you explain a 10-16 call with 10-33 priority and 10-32 known with 1 possible 10-79 within the residence...its all good...just dont like socialism and somebody telling me what i can buy or not and that letter defiently smacks of GM trying to steer customers into vehicles they may or may not want...i would further opine that letter looks like it came from somebody at GM corporate and not from the desk of some manager at a local dealership..does not look good from where i stand...on a side note my brother just bought 2 new silverados for his business so i do thank you guys for offering employee pricing....


Socialism is a form of government whereby the government owns businesses, property, etc. By definition, GM CANNOT be "socialist" because, as big as GM is, it is not a government. The reason why some people here don't understand your post is because it makes no sense.

Even if the 5th gen came ONLY with a V6, it would still be a CAFE liability. Starting in 2011 it's liability in that regard will be huge - and it will increase every year thereafter.

Those are the facts.

mmmmmmmmm.........kinda sorta not........

Each 'vehicle line' has an internal fuel economy number it must hit -- sales weighted -- and this helps the corp. hit the number it must hit. The good news is that we have Cobalt models right now rated at 37..........that's a start!

mmmmmmmmm.........kinda sorta not........

Each 'vehicle line' has an internal fuel economy number it must hit -- sales weighted -- and this helps the corp. hit the number it must hit. The good news is that we have Cobalt models right now rated at 37..........that's a start!

Will Camaro hit that internal number post 2011?

sure..long as you quit buying the SS and everybody is forced into the V6....hence "the letter"

sure..long as you quit buying the SS and everybody is forced into the V6....hence "the letter"

4 pages trying to explain to you what the letter means and you still don't get it.

"To date we have accepted over 6000 sold orders, 84% of which are SS. We will not be able to build in this model mix, so make sure you are setting your customer's expectations correctly to avoid the high potential for dissatisfaction. But keep taking sold orders !!!!!!!!!!!!

Remember, the allocation number we have given you is for the first 20,000 built covering production thru September. If things go right we will far surpass that number by year end."

Orders to date:

LS: 2%
1LT: 4%
2LT: 10%
1SS: 7%
2SS: 77%

This is supposedly a letter from GM to a dealer. Not sure of the validity. Any one have any thoughts?

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing... the reactions to this doesn't dispel that axiom...

Having read a few GM letters and bulletins in my time, let me try to translate this for any interested.

Note the mention for the order slots available in the first allocation go 'round is 20,000. Far short of the intended production number, but it is the initial allocation.

The note goes on to say what percentages have been among the initial 6,000 SOLD ORDERS.

The big point in the note is "make sure you are setting your customer's expectations correctly to avoid the high potential for dissatisfaction".

What it doesn't say is that people won't get their car of choice. What it doesn't say is not to order 2SS if that's what the customer wants. What it does refer to is make sure to advise your customer they MAY see some 6 cylinder cars on the lots BEFORE they see their car being at the dealer.

What is also inferred is that there is a big potential for sales of less than fully equipped SS cars, thus don't make assumptions that the mix being seen is an indicator of what you should order when the system opens for non sold orders. The note is a reminder that this is early interest and not something to base your inventory on in the long run.

GM understands the excitement people have in ordering a new car. Particularly one as anticipated as the CAMARO. The note is all about being straight with the customer and nothing else is to be inferred.

Well... this is one fellow's reading of this. YMMV.;)

People will get their cars. No one is being asked to change their minds.

Back in the 70s when the Trans Ams were selling faster then GM could build them what did they do?

I am very sure if the sales of the Camaro V8 or otherwise go crazy GM will be more then happy to figure out how to get everyone in their car,,, isn't their whole purpose to sell a bunch of cars???? Lots of cars would be a dream come true no???

The sky is not falling!!

Will Camaro hit that internal number post 2011?

Yes.

"The big point in the note is "make sure you are setting your customer's expectations correctly to avoid the high potential for dissatisfaction"."

Here is my expectation...GM had 4 months advanced notice of the exact car I ordered, and I expect a sold V8 to be built before an unsold V6.

Come March 09 and my dealer has 5 or 6 V6 Camaro's on the lot, and I'm given a run around as to why GM is still unable to build a SS. IF this is how things play out, I'll cancel this order and GM will never see a dime from me in the future. Also, this IS a last chance I'm willing to give GM to make me a happy GM customer.

Even without Scott's intervention, I would have questioned the authenticity of the original message simply because it contained a string of twelve consecutive exclamation points, and I'm sure that GM isn't employing 14-year-old girls in whatever department is responsible for dealer relations.

You been talking to alot of 14 yr old girls online???? Any which way you wanna look at it, the figures from this 'letter' are FACTS. Scott would put an end to it if it wasnt. And ALL that the letter is trying to get across is that customers need to know if they continue to order mainly SS's, there WILL be a wait. Sounds like they're trying to be honest.

You been talking to alot of 14 yr old girls online????

Just the ones that post on this board. ;)

Yes.

Whatever that internal number is, post-2011, GM will have to sell LOTS of Cruzes, Aveos and Cobalts to balance Camaro's CAFE numbers.


It's too bad Camaro won't have a version or two which is CAFE neutral or even positive. But, that's a different subject....

Any which way you wanna look at it, the figures from this 'letter' are FACTS. Scott would put an end to it if it wasnt.

First of all, why did you create a new account when you already had one to start this thread? There's no need for more than one account here.

Second, the figures are NOT facts. Did you see post #15? Scott DID say it was wrong and DID put an end to it. I even edited YOUR first post in this thread to mention this so people wouldn't keep freaking out over wrong information, which YOU then edited back out. Why you would do that makes no sense but let's continue to keep things HONEST as you mentioned.

Here's the whole post that is somehow being missed:
http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5656568&postcount=15

OK..once again - calm down.

(and I NEED TO CALM down because I want to wring the person's neck that put this message out to dealers -- and the person within the dealership that put the message out to YOU.......)

FIRST -- the number of units mentioned that we will produce is WRONG........we'll build more units than that barring any unforseen circumstances or work stoppages. (and I put that last line in there because NO ONE knows what will happen tomorrow.......)

SECOND -- we want each of you behind the steering wheel of your new Camaro........MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT..........LET ME SAY THAT AGAIN -- MAKE --- NO -- MISTAKE -- ABOUT -- IT...............
(...now go read it again!)

THIRD-- anyone who has any production planning management experience will understand that you do NOT tool to build 100 percent of anything when you offer choices -- NO ONE DOES . Let me say that again NO -- ONE -- DOES.............

The hardest thing (In my opinion) that we have to do is to forecast option load.........and I dare anyone on here to predict what the car will sell in terms of option load in the 2011 model year -

We are in FINE SHAPE right now. IF -- and that's a HUGE 'IF" the orders HAD come in at 100% SS -- and EVERY allocation had been spoken for (and that has not happened....) then we'd have some concern..........

So -- calm down.

Not everyone at GM is a walking moron.

Don't believe everything you read --esp. when you have no idea of the source.

REPEAT AFTER ME: WE WANT YOU BEHIND THE STEERING WHEELS OF YOUR NEW CAMAROS...............

Now -- one more favor:

DURING THE NEXT 'PANIC DU JOUR' -- (which, I'm confident will happen within the next few minutes........)

..........would you PLEASE just STOP for a minute and think:

"........Perhaps -- just perhaps -- GM has done this for many years -- and perhaps - just perhaps -- they know what they're doing -- and perhaps --just perhaps they DO care about us as evidenced by Fbodfather coming out here and calming us down every other day............."

and then think:

" I'd better be careful or Fbodfather just MAY have a stroke and die and IF he DIES he's gonna come back to haunt me with an entire fleet of black Suburbans...........and my life will be 'kaakaa'......"

So......let's PLEASE -- (I'm begging you......) STOP with the "Panic Du Jours"..........please?????


Thank you!

Now -- back to our regularly scheduled programming..........

Since this is all BS, I am closing this one down.