2010 Camaro Price vs Household Income Poll

Since I have stated in the other thread that I think the 2010 car I want is out of my reach, I thought it'd be neat to see on this forum, how many folks are in which income brackets, versus getting the new camaro. If that makes sense. Alot of guys in the other thread, are arguing that with inflation the car is not much higher priced than an 02 was in 02.. and alot of them are like me, who will have to settle for used or not at all, or hit the lotto to get one new.. so.. participate if you wish.. as im curious to see exactly how many folks make enough $ to buy new.

Edit :

feel free to add comments as to why or why not.

I am only slightly concerned over the pricing. income is not a problem but i am waiting for the Z/28. The base SS is about 2 thousand more than than i thought it would be so it goes to to be expected that the Z will be about 2 thousand than i expect. That will put it in corvette price range.

Technically, I CAN afford to buy a new Camaro.
But do I want a disproportionate amount of my money going to a car? Should anybody do that? Especially in this economic climate.

What would the payment be on a $43K car with a standard down payment & good interest rate? $600-700 per month? Are you kidding me?!?

It would be awfully hard to justify that amount when, at any moment, our whole economy could collapse into dust.

My wife and I are north of $140K a year and I have a hard time putting 20K down and financing another 20K just to get the car I want. That would put my payment in the $450 a month range to drive a car 5 months out of the year in Minnesota. Heck I have lost the cost of a Z06 in my retirement account in the last month. Plus with my stock portfolio cut in half, that puts my buying power much lower. I was going to sell stock and pay cash for the car but at the low prices it makes no sense. The boss lady did tell me this morning we fill find a way to pay for it so there is a sense of hope. I am not going to settle for a V6 when in my heart I want a V8.

95birdable,

you speak much of what my points are. Unfortunately with the cost of the car, folks like myself, who make 1/3 of what your family brings in (roughly 50k a year) will no way be able to afford a new 5th gen. Used may be one thing, but new is entirely different, and in actuality is the only thing that matters to GM anyways, because its the only thing that counts to their bottom dollar.
Even if i were to save up 5k, and trade in both my 01 Grand am and my 01 Z28 (both of which were used when we got them) we'd still be pushing the envelope of payment per month, versus comfortable affordability.

Hell our family even has access to GMS pricing and it still squeezes us too close to the edge when we did a G8 last week... (34k car) With GMS dropped it down to 31k, then 3000.00 for our Grand am trade and 5k down = 23k financed at 7.5%apr = aruond 428 a month roughly iirc.. and thats just too high on our budget for a new car. Throw in my 01 z, and you may get us into the 350 range at that, but then we're out 2 cars instead of one, and thats not good either. so idk..

perhaps i should just campaign for raises here at the state instead of lower car prices lol.

Originally I was VERY upset over the MSRP pricing, it put it out of the time line I have had setup for the last 1.5 years (who'd have thunk that you couldnt get a v8 for under 30k..)

Then invoice pricing came out and I have a good feeling that I will be able to apply my GMU to get it close to that. If that's possible then things will work out, if not *shrug* I will work on the situation when it comes around.

I too was shocked at first, and a little dissapointed at the price. But, I have calmed down about that and know now that I will just have to wait a couple of years for new and hope to get close to invoice, or buy used. I just got my first home a couple of months ago, so we need to be sure we are settled down financially for a while first before thinking about buying a camaro. that is if they don't increase in price over the next couple of years.

Household makes less than 50k a year cant purhcase a new Camaro.

household income here is less than 25k... awesome poll by the way... :rolleyes:

yes, the inital shock was worse than how i currently feel, but perhaps its me getting older that is less willing to put myself in a bind or "cut it close" to buy a car these days. there was once a time that i'd of sacrificed everything for a new car, but now, not so much.. even for camaro. i just want to be sure when i do buy, i can afford to drive, mod, and enjoy as much as possible.

:think: Odd poll . . . I don't fit in any category . . .

sorry bout that. I tried to not leave anyone out..

whats odd bout it?

I don't fit either. My household income isn't within the criteria of the poll.

Needless to say, I hope everyone who's credit rating <700 either has the cash in hand or financing in place from someone other than GMAC...

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/oct2008/db20081013_422132.htm?chan=rss_topStories_ssi_5

Talk about shooting oneself in the foot. :p

I'll end up making about 24k per year when I finally start my job in January...I figure I probably won't take delivery until June or July so that should give me 6 months to save. Hopefully in those 6 months I can save 6k...add that to the 4k I have saved and the 10k I'm selling my truck for and I'll be financing 18k. So at 6percent interest (a guess) I'll be somewhere around 300 dollars a month for 5 years.

I know it's not financially responsible...but I literally plan on being that old guy that drives the same car until the day he dies (restoring it once a decade or so)....so I'm willing to put myself in a little bit of a bind. After all this is my hobby as well as my transportation.

I don't fit either. My household income isn't within the criteria of the poll.

Needless to say, I hope everyone who's credit rating <700 either has the cash in hand or financing in place from someone other than GMAC...

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/oct2008/db20081013_422132.htm?chan=rss_topStories_ssi_5

Talk about shooting oneself in the foot. :p

It's not mentioned in that article, but in the full letter to dealers GMAC also specified that they will no longer finance more than invoice:

In the short term, we will limit auto contracts to those consumers who have a minimum 700 credit bureau score, with an advance rate equal to or less than dealer invoice. This means that consumers will be required to make a down payment.

That means no 0 down and no negative equity trades.

^That should bring on incentives sooner rather than later.

Between my wife and I we make just a hair under 100k, but since we bought our house, I'm going to have to eliminate some credit cards plus my truck (not trading the truck, trucks way too useful) from the bill list before I can buy. That puts me late next year or early 2010...

I'm almost 27, not married, no kids, own my own house. No credit card debt. I currently pay 470.91/month for my vehicle which will be paid off in December this year. I will in turn have a great daily driver for when I take delivery of the SS2 I just ordered.

I do have a live in girlfriend who helps with some bills, and completely supports the purchase.

me and my girlfriend make less than 125,000 a year and i am buying a new camaro. i dont have any credit card debt and we are in a very good situation with bills and loans. mines on order!

We make ~120k a year and can afford it. Like what most people have said though, should we? I believe that's the true question.

I've wanted the car just as bad as any of you. I drove from Philly in my 97 Camaro to Detroit for the unveiling. I took a ton of posters and mailed them out to the members on this board to further spread the fire. I've had the poster hanging up at work and in my garage ever since.

There's no doubt that I want the car. Responsibly though, I can't justify spending $35k on the one that I want and I don't want to spend $25k knowing that I'm not getting exactly what I want. I'll be extremely jealous when they start showing up on the roads, but this isn't my call. Until the country is a little more stable, I need to keep my money.

Hopefully whoever gets to be next in office can put us in the right direction. The second I see things taking a turn for the better, you can rest assured I'll be on my way to the dealership. Until then, I'll just have to drool all over yours.

Interesting how you have $150K at the top end....like that's a high income.

Going into debt to buy anything is wrong. period. Except maybe a house...everybody needs a roof.

Most Americans can't responsibly afford a new car. period. Making payments for years on something that depreciates is absolute $%&*@ .

The current financial meltdown is the direct result of most American's reckless, irresponsible spending and a choice to live beyond their means.

I'm baffled by people's ability to tolerate debt!

off podium :lol:





****

Interesting how you have $150K at the top end....like that's a high income.

yes, i know its not much, but in my experience, very few make more than that a year that i know personally, thus i was trying to show how many who cant really afford the "every mans corvette" anymore per sae.


Going into debt to buy anything is wrong. period. Except maybe a house...everybody needs a roof.

True, but look at gas these days, until recently you practically had to take a loan out to fill up.


Most Americans can't responsibly afford a new car. period. Making payments for years on something that depreciates is absolute $%&*@ .

The current financial meltdown is the direct result of most American's reckless, irresponsible spending and a choice to live beyond their means.

I'm baffled by people's ability to tolerate debt!

off podium :lol:


****

I wouldnt go so far as to say most cant responsibly afford one, thats going a bit far. Everything depreciates. Even houses at this time. No matter what you buy, its part of the greater fool theory, finding a greater fool than you to pay more for it than you did. Also known as capitalism lol.

The current financial meltdown, in my opinion is from greedy rich bankers and what not who ok'ed loans to folks who shouldnt have even been considered for it in the first place. Yes, I agree everyone should have a roof, but not everyone can afford a 200k house. some folks need to rent, some folks need to own that 100k house. or that 70 k house. or that 50k house. The key is living within your means.. which americans havent done for a long time. We all want more, who can blame us, but at the same time, knowing when we can have more is the key. So yes, we agree on that aspect.


150k is the highest part of my poll, as its a crap load of money down here where i live per year. Hell doctors i work for and with dont even bring home that much a year working for the state.

I make just over 50k and have no kids or wife just a gf. I think most people can afford it but the question is it worth it? Like me I can afford 2SS but I will love to have more money to save just to have some free money. Base price is excellent on both models but when you starting adding options, insurance, tax, and interest You will be paying $700 + a month total. I think GM is marketing and targeting this more for white collar type income than blue collar type income, a little different then how they did on the 4th gen. Hopefully in March we will have a better take on how this economy is going. That’s why I will not committing by placing an order until I know what is the most bang for your buck, and how my finances are.

Interesting how you have $150K at the top end....like that's a high income.

150K should be consider a high income since only roughly 5% of the population makes more.


The current financial meltdown is the direct result of most American's reckless, irresponsible spending and a choice to live beyond their means.


The current financial meltdown happened because of greedy bankers, politicians who think everyone should have home even though they can't afford them, and the people who can't afford them and have no clue how to manage money.

Remember you can't take your money with you, so as long as you can responsibly afford one without going into major debt, I say buy it. I have known to many people that have passed away before they reached retirement. You still need to save for it, but I wouldn't put every last penny away. Have fun while you can.

I can easily afford a new Camaro if I wanted to.

im a bit surprised that folks do not think it odd that the majority of folks who can purchase this car are making 75k ish per household??

I thought this was supposed to be an every man's car.. but yet, most of the people i know, dont have that type of buying power, and before you say it, its not like they are uneducated folks either.

I've also read a good bit about comparing the car to the 4th gen is good or absurd or whatever, and I'd just like to remind people that in 02, the end of the 4th gen sales, the cars were OVERPRICED. and thus one reason why they didnt sell as well as they could / should have. Yes there were other factors as well, but the price did come in to a big part of play for many people.

It's not mentioned in that article, but in the full letter to dealers GMAC also specified that they will no longer finance more than invoice:

In the short term, we will limit auto contracts to those consumers who have a minimum 700 credit bureau score, with an advance rate equal to or less than dealer invoice. This means that consumers will be required to make a down payment.

That means no 0 down and no negative equity trades.

Or negotiate an invoice price with the dealer. I'm betting (by waiting to order) that this will be possible by the end of next year.

Here in the bay area its pretty expensive with rent at 1400 for a 1br apt, the only way me an my newly married wife are able to afford this is by planning,

we make about 100k combined but have about 10k saved so far. We have planned since i met her and since we got engaged 2 years ago that this car was a must so its all about the piggy bank that is going to allow to get this car. and it helps that we are credit union member and can get a 5.5-6.5 apr from 5-7 years, but definately not if I didnt know it was coming 2 years ago.

fwiw, my wife and I combined make over $200k year and even I am struggling to figure out how I can afford it. :p

But then I also live in the bay area and own my own home.

Fortunately my wife is willing to give up a trip to Hawaii in February I promised her for our wedding anniversary so it will make buying a Camaro SS easier for us financially. Is she a keeper or what!?!

fwiw, my wife and I combined make over $200k year and even I am struggling to figure out how I can afford it. :p

But then I also live in the bay area and own my own home.

Fortunately my wife is willing to give up a trip to Hawaii in February I promised her for our wedding anniversary so it will make buying a Camaro SS easier for us financially. Is she a keeper or what!?!

My wife would kick my ass. After a certain point, it isn't how much you make, it's how you allot your money.

My wife would kick my ass. After a certain point, it isn't how much you make, it's how you allot your money.
Of course there are conditions. I have to agree to sell two of my current Camaros; relandscape the front yard; and replace the kitchen floor. (Then again we did just go on a Hawaiian cruise last February. :p)

She is a keeper, but i hate you have to get rid of *2* to get one. I wish i had the money or i'd buy the "old blue" as i assume she'd be the one of the 60's leaving. If not then goldie would be nice too.. Lol.

I knew that cost of living was higher in other places as im originally from D.C., which is why i left the whole poll thing kinda on the "low" end of the spectrum, but that being said, i find it bad that the majority of folks have to make 75k or so to buy one of these in this economy. I know im not the only one, that is disturbed for this fact, and not because the car is necessarily over priced, but because it cost more than we anticipated, and also because it is out of our "pay grade" so to speak.

She is a keeper, but i hate you have to get rid of *2* to get one. I wish i had the money or i'd buy the "old blue" as i assume she'd be the one of the 60's leaving. If not then goldie would be nice too.. Lol.

I knew that cost of living was higher in other places as im originally from D.C., which is why i left the whole poll thing kinda on the "low" end of the spectrum, but that being said, i find it bad that the majority of folks have to make 75k or so to buy one of these in this economy. I know im not the only one, that is disturbed for this fact, and not because the car is necessarily over priced, but because it cost more than we anticipated, and also because it is out of our "pay grade" so to speak.

I think a person needs to be making at least $100-125K to afford the new Camaro (a fully loaded 2SS). You're right when you say GM priced it out of the average person's pay grade.

Rule of thumb is that a car is affordable at 20% of annual income. So yeah, a $30 grand base SS would be affordable by someone making $150,000.

Rule of thumb is that a car is affordable at 20% of annual income. So yeah, a $30 grand base SS would be affordable by someone making $150,000.

Youch. Wonder how many people making $50,000 a year actually have $10,000 cars?

Youch. Wonder how many people making $50,000 a year actually have $10,000 cars?They're the one's trying to drive $40k+ vehicles.

They're the one's trying to drive $40k+ vehicles.

I guess that shows what a disconnect there is between buyers and the market. The Median household income in the U.S. in 2007 was $50,233.00. The average cost of a new car according to the FTC is $28,400. So that means that the average new car costs nearly 3 times what the average household can afford.

yea, the numbers get scary when you start running them. Especially when you know you want a better / bigger/ more expensive car, than you can truely afford.

In 2007 i made more than the US median income, now in 2008, I'll make less do to me switching jobs... but thats life. Yes, I could have stayed where i was, but i wasnt happy, and now where I am, I am happy, but i bring home 30% less roughly per year.. SO, that being said, IDK. I've never seen a camaro go for 10 k new.lol.

20k, sure, in 3rd and 4th gens... but the larger problem isnt that the car is priced too high, its that we arent bringing home enough... thats the real problem.

Maybe there needs to be a wholesale downward shift of car prices.
Lop around 15-20% off of every MSRP of every vehicle and then they will be more in line with the incomes of the average person.

Did Chevy jack the price up on the Camaro right before they released pricing? They had raised prices across the board about 2 weeks ago by about $1k a car. I wonder if they originally had a lower price for the Camaro and then right before they released pricing figured out they had to raise it?

150K should be consider a high income since only roughly 5% of the population makes more.

$150K family income is high? I make that just by myself alone. I also drive around in paid off 2001 SS. Although I'd love the 2010 I'll wait until I can get one for invoice and even then I'll have to weigh the cost.

Well my household income is about 20K north of $150K
I drive a 13K 2006 Dodge Caravan and a 95 Firebird Convertible.
The boss lady drives a 2008 Toyota Yaris that cost 13,200K.
All 3 cars we paid cash for. Don't need no stinking payment. All 3 Cars cost me about as much as a New SS Vert will.

My dream of a new Camaro evaporated the second the prices were posted. Even if I got what I wanted for my TA, I still can't afford the car I want. I'm not settling for anything other than what I want, and what I want costs too much. :(

My dream of a new Camaro evaporated the second the prices were posted. Even if I got what I wanted for my TA, I still can't afford the car I want. I'm not settling for anything other than what I want, and what I want costs too much. :(


Smart man...it's irresponsible to go into debt just to get something you want!

it's OK to do the right thing.


:cool:

Geeeeee I thought how can someone live under $100,000 a year able to afford anything???
I guess many people have differant life styles
Myself I would tradein my 2006 stang Gt and pay the rest in cash.
For many people if you want a loan you will need a 700 plus credit rating...
It sucks
But its like going on vacation.
Many will stay at a best western and pay $100 a night,,,,but you have others like myself rather pay $300 plus a night
Gezzz I stayed at a Bestwestern at the Mopar Nationals years ago for $75 a night,,,,,
Reason was it was at Brice Road where all the Mopar cars hungout..
Geee what a crummy hotel,Yukkkkk

The price is not that bad. How much did people pay for their 02 35th anniversary camaro ss or even their CETA ws6 loaded new?

Since I have stated in the other thread that I think the 2010 car I want is out of my reach, I thought it'd be neat to see on this forum, how many folks are in which income brackets, versus getting the new camaro. If that makes sense. Alot of guys in the other thread, are arguing that with inflation the car is not much higher priced than an 02 was in 02.. and alot of them are like me, who will have to settle for used or not at all, or hit the lotto to get one new.. so.. participate if you wish.. as im curious to see exactly how many folks make enough $ to buy new.

Edit :

feel free to add comments as to why or why not.

There are quite a few ways this poll makes no sense because income isn't the driving factor in purchasing a car and it talkes only a single snapshot and uses it as the criteria to prove a point that simply can not be proven.

A military E5 who is single takes home about 25-30K per year can easily buy a Camaro... even a Z28, but a person who is making $75K per year who is paying the college tuition of 2 kids and a morgage can not.

A married couple together making about 60 grand and living in an apartment might easily afford a Camaro, but they are saving for a house, so they can't.

Age, priorities, and the simple fact as to what fits your needs drives a car purchase just as much if not more than an actual price tag.



On another similar subject, I am simply dumbfounded that so many people here are shocked at the price. Are you guy's kidding me???

I recall a thread back around the time the current Mustang and 300 came out when it was all but carved in concrete that any future V8 powered cars were going to be knocking on the 30 grand door if not more. Fuel economy and/or the lower demands for V8 engines mean that either the production cost of the V8 would be spread among fewer people (higher prices) or that there would be a surcharge on the V8 to encourage sales of more fuel friendly versions (again, higher prices). Either way, days of V8s as cheap performance was over years ago (even a Mustang GT is at least $5,000 over a similar V6 model).

I also recall many times here where others as well as myself pointed out that such things that were being demanded such as IRS and a chassis to take as much horsepower as everyone was wanting would certainly send prices skyward. I myself also made the point that looking at the sales numbers, all those guys who bought Camaro SSs with list prices at or above the $30K mark while entry level $21K Z28s sat on the lots as orphans were all but eliminating cheap performance in the future.

Now, here we have a coupe with IRS, a body that can take massive power, and there seems to be a collective shouck just because a 425 horsepower Camaro costs $30,000. Give me a break! It wasn't too long ago that 400 horsepower cars cost $32-35,000 (ie: Cobra & LS2 GTOs).

For those whining that a V6 Camaro costs $22K, you guys need to take a sedative. We're talking about a direct injected, 300 horsepower, sub-6-second-to-60-mph, 155 mph, IRS equpted, large all wheel disc brakes, multiple airbaged, very well equpted car.

If you still feel the need to whine and cry about paying $22-25K for a 300 horse V6 Camaro like that, go to Infinity and look at the G37 coupe and it's $34,000 price tag. The 268 horses you get at that price makes even 30 grand for the SS look like a steal. Even if the 400 horse V8 Mustang comes in at the same price as the current one, it still doesn't have IRS and as solid construction as Camaro.

As I've always said on this subject, everything has a price... there's no free rides. We have a $32-40,000 Camaro at a $22-30,000 pricetag. By every indication, it's a great car.

If you can't afford it, you should either 1) Save up till you can buy a new one, even it takes a few years, 2) wait a year or 2 till you can get one used, 3) Buy a Mustang, or 4) really take time to question whether you should even be buying a new car at all since the average price for a new vehicle is still just over $30,000.

In short, if it's too much for you, then you don't need it and shouldn't have it.

In case you haven't noticed, there's an economic meltdown in progress because people haven't been realistic about what they can afford, and feel like they should have everything simply because (and only because) they want it.

There are quite a few ways this poll makes no sense because income isn't the driving factor in purchasing a car and it talkes only a single snapshot and uses it as the criteria to prove a point that simply can not be proven.

A military E5 who is single takes home about 25-30K per year can easily buy a Camaro... even a Z28, but a person who is making $75K per year who is paying the college tuition of 2 kids and a morgage can not.

A married couple together making about 60 grand and living in an apartment might easily afford a Camaro, but they are saving for a house, so they can't.

Age, priorities, and the simple fact as to what fits your needs drives a car purchase just as much if not more than an actual price tag.



On another similar subject, I am simply dumbfounded that so many people here are shocked at the price. Are you guy's kidding me???

I recall a thread back around the time the current Mustang and 300 came out when it was all but carved in concrete that any future V8 powered cars were going to be knocking on the 30 grand door if not more. Fuel economy and/or the lower demands for V8 engines mean that either the production cost of the V8 would be spread among fewer people (higher prices) or that there would be a surcharge on the V8 to encourage sales of more fuel friendly versions (again, higher prices). Either way, days of V8s as cheap performance was over years ago (even a Mustang GT is at least $5,000 over a similar V6 model).

I also recall many times here where others as well as myself pointed out that such things that were being demanded such as IRS and a chassis to take as much horsepower as everyone was wanting would certainly send prices skyward. I myself also made the point that looking at the sales numbers, all those guys who bought Camaro SSs with list prices at or above the $30K mark while entry level $21K Z28s sat on the lots as orphans were all but eliminating cheap performance in the future.

Now, here we have a coupe with IRS, a body that can take massive power, and there seems to be a collective shouck just because a 425 horsepower Camaro costs $30,000. Give me a break! It wasn't too long ago that 400 horsepower cars cost $32-35,000 (ie: Cobra & LS2 GTOs).

For those whining that a V6 Camaro costs $22K, you guys need to take a sedative. We're talking about a direct injected, 300 horsepower, sub-6-second-to-60-mph, 155 mph, IRS equpted, large all wheel disc brakes, multiple airbaged, very well equpted car.

If you still feel the need to whine and cry about paying $22-25K for a 300 horse V6 Camaro like that, go to Infinity and look at the G37 coupe and it's $34,000 price tag. The 268 horses you get at that price makes even 30 grand for the SS look like a steal. Even if the 400 horse V8 Mustang comes in at the same price as the current one, it still doesn't have IRS and as solid construction as Camaro.

As I've always said on this subject, everything has a price... there's no free rides. We have a $32-40,000 Camaro at a $22-30,000 pricetag. By every indication, it's a great car.

If you can't afford it, you should either 1) Save up till you can buy a new one, even it takes a few years, 2) wait a year or 2 till you can get one used, 3) Buy a Mustang, or 4) really take time to question whether you should even be buying a new car at all since the average price for a new vehicle is still just over $30,000.

In short, if it's too much for you, then you don't need it and shouldn't have it.

In case you haven't noticed, there's an economic meltdown in progress because people haven't been realistic about what they can afford, and feel like they should have everything simply because (and only because) they want it.


Holy crap this is an awesome response!! You have summed up my feelings
to a T!!! Thanks for stating something that needed to be said. :)

I'll have to agree with you on this one guionM. The reality is some people making $300,000 a year will not be able to afford a new Camaro or any other new car as they have already overbought in every single lifestyle category such as housing, furnishings, home theater/big screen tv, food budget too high, expensive clothing, expensive vacations, a time share at the mountains or the beach, and on and on and they are already in debt up to their ears. Most of them have a bad case of trying to keep up with the Jonses, biggest widescreen, etc. and also a bad case of status. For those that aren't familar, status is buying things you don't really want or need to impress people you don't like, all with money you don't really have. If you live reasonably within your means you can afford a new car without a big strain on your budget. I look at people paying $1200-$1800 a month for apartment rental and I'm like "what, are you nuts?". It's all about where you place your priorities and how well you live within your means, nothing more, nothing less. I personally find the new Camaro to be reasonably priced with the equipment it comes with.
Clyde

I don't think I'll be getting one. I have a 00 SS with 26kmi on it, that is paid off.:p I have two kids and a fat mortage. It is not reasonable for me to drop $34,000$ on a car that isn't going to be leaps and bounds better than what I have. My other ride is a 2005 TB, I think I am more apt to get a better Family ride than the new Camaro. Sorry General but you missed me by a few years, and since this Camaro isn't even out yet , maybe in the next two years , what..........ever

more for you guys, can't f-ing wait for the dealer markups....we'll easy see $40k ss:lol:

There are quite a few ways this poll makes no sense because income isn't the driving factor in purchasing a car and it talkes only a single snapshot and uses it as the criteria to prove a point that simply can not be proven.

A military E5 who is single takes home about 25-30K per year can easily buy a Camaro... even a Z28, but a person who is making $75K per year who is paying the college tuition of 2 kids and a morgage can not.

A married couple together making about 60 grand and living in an apartment might easily afford a Camaro, but they are saving for a house, so they can't.

Age, priorities, and the simple fact as to what fits your needs drives a car purchase just as much if not more than an actual price tag.



On another similar subject, I am simply dumbfounded that so many people here are shocked at the price. Are you guy's kidding me???

I recall a thread back around the time the current Mustang and 300 came out when it was all but carved in concrete that any future V8 powered cars were going to be knocking on the 30 grand door if not more. Fuel economy and/or the lower demands for V8 engines mean that either the production cost of the V8 would be spread among fewer people (higher prices) or that there would be a surcharge on the V8 to encourage sales of more fuel friendly versions (again, higher prices). Either way, days of V8s as cheap performance was over years ago (even a Mustang GT is at least $5,000 over a similar V6 model).

I also recall many times here where others as well as myself pointed out that such things that were being demanded such as IRS and a chassis to take as much horsepower as everyone was wanting would certainly send prices skyward. I myself also made the point that looking at the sales numbers, all those guys who bought Camaro SSs with list prices at or above the $30K mark while entry level $21K Z28s sat on the lots as orphans were all but eliminating cheap performance in the future.

Now, here we have a coupe with IRS, a body that can take massive power, and there seems to be a collective shouck just because a 425 horsepower Camaro costs $30,000. Give me a break! It wasn't too long ago that 400 horsepower cars cost $32-35,000 (ie: Cobra & LS2 GTOs).

For those whining that a V6 Camaro costs $22K, you guys need to take a sedative. We're talking about a direct injected, 300 horsepower, sub-6-second-to-60-mph, 155 mph, IRS equpted, large all wheel disc brakes, multiple airbaged, very well equpted car.

If you still feel the need to whine and cry about paying $22-25K for a 300 horse V6 Camaro like that, go to Infinity and look at the G37 coupe and it's $34,000 price tag. The 268 horses you get at that price makes even 30 grand for the SS look like a steal. Even if the 400 horse V8 Mustang comes in at the same price as the current one, it still doesn't have IRS and as solid construction as Camaro.

As I've always said on this subject, everything has a price... there's no free rides. We have a $32-40,000 Camaro at a $22-30,000 pricetag. By every indication, it's a great car.

If you can't afford it, you should either 1) Save up till you can buy a new one, even it takes a few years, 2) wait a year or 2 till you can get one used, 3) Buy a Mustang, or 4) really take time to question whether you should even be buying a new car at all since the average price for a new vehicle is still just over $30,000.

In short, if it's too much for you, then you don't need it and shouldn't have it.

In case you haven't noticed, there's an economic meltdown in progress because people haven't been realistic about what they can afford, and feel like they should have everything simply because (and only because) they want it.The G37 coupe makes 330HP.

Other than that I agree completely.

I'm disappointed in the pricing of the Camaro, I thought they were going to price it to be competitive with the Mustang, but I bought an '06 Mustang new fully loaded pony package for $24,000 and yet to but the fully loaded v6 with out the RS package you are talking around $30,000. I was all excited about getting a new Camaro, had a Trans Am before the Mustang, but not any more GM outpriced me, I'll be sticking with my Mustang for now maybe looking at the 2010.

I'm disappointed in the pricing of the Camaro, I thought they were going to price it to be competitive with the Mustang, but I bought an '06 Mustang new fully loaded pony package for $24,000 and yet to but the fully loaded v6 with out the RS package you are talking around $30,000. I was all excited about getting a new Camaro, had a Trans Am before the Mustang, but not any more GM outpriced me, I'll be sticking with my Mustang for now maybe looking at the 2010.

What was the horsepower of your $24k fully loaded mustang? Also, fully loaded Camaro does not = fully loaded mustang. There are many features available on a Camaro that aren't available on a mustang.

What was the horsepower of your $24k fully loaded mustang?
I think depends on how he's going to use it. 300hp is more than plenty for the average guy doing the average commute - now if your the balls to the wall hardcore street racer looking to smoke your competition at every stoplight, safety of the public be damned, its not.


Also, fully loaded Camaro does not = fully loaded mustang. There are many features available on a Camaro that aren't available on a mustang.

Not that I've been moved to look, but what specifically does the F5 offer over the S-197 in features (IRS, M6/A6, 20" wheels, and 422hp aside - all nice stuff mind you and well worth the premium over the Mustang IMO)?

What was the horsepower of your $24k fully loaded mustang? Also, fully loaded Camaro does not = fully loaded mustang. There are many features available on a Camaro that aren't available on a mustang.

Yes there is only 210 horsepower, but that was fine with me, I had had a 2000 Trans Am with the Vette 5.7 for 5 years and didn't need the extra HP for daily driving or using premium gas and not getting great gas milage. They are pricing the Camaro v6 to compete with the Mustang v8, which as I was trying to point out puts many buyers out of the price range for the v6. The main thing the Camaro has that my Stang doesn't in IRS, and yes it would be nice, but haven't had it yet so I don't know what I'm missing.

Here is a list of some what my mustang has...
• Audio – Shaker 500 Audio
System (AM/FM stereo
w/CDx6, 8-speakers & MP3)
• Seats 6-way power
adjustable driver w/2-way
adjustable head restraint
& power lumbar
• Rear window defroster
• Remote keyless entry
• Speed control – steering
wheel-mounted

5R55S 5-Speed Automatic Transmission

Active Anti-Theft System (incl. perimeter inclination & intrusion alarms)

Interior Upgrade Package (incl. bright polished six-gauge instrument
cluster w/My Color feature, bright shift knob & satin register vents
w/satin aluminum spokes on steering wheel, door latches, door scuff
plate. Also incl. message center, leather-wrapped steering wheel &
Dark Charcoal Aberdeen pattern front door panel inserts)

V6 Pony Package (incl. unique Pony grille with chrome bezel and fog
lamps, rear spoiler, 17" painted cast aluminum wheel w/bright
machined rim, Z-branded A/S tires & unique tri-bar Pony center cap,
Pony front fender badges, lower door tape stripe available in black,
white or pearl gold and carpeted front floor mats w/unique brushed
chrome "MUSTANG" badge in 2006MY interior colors, GT-inspired
suspension modifications featuring a larger front stabilizer bar, the
addition of a rear stabilizer bar, Anti-Lock Braking System (ABS)
w/Traction Control

I had originally made this poll to basically see how many other folks are in my boat. Sadly, i suppose, I've had the misfortune of changing jobs with every president. First laid off on 9/7/01, only to work the next 7.75 years to make what i was making on 9/7/01, and then to quit there, once i had re-attained that salary, to go to yet another job, starting over again. It seems like every time we have a new president, within a year of it im starting over salary wise, while expenses, only get higher. Back in 97, when i first started in my career, 30k was a decent living in my area, with gas barely above 1.00 a gallon, and utilities much lower as well. Now, in 2008, my salary of 30k is chicken feed. If its not basic necessitys, its not purchased, and while some may say so be it, i for one feel its a big bummer, even if I do love the job. What makes it worse is its a state job, so there's very little hope for major increases. The other part of it that I am thankful for though is that i am in fact employed.. that alone is something that is very comforting for me right now.

Yes, we've covered the price versus value pretty well since then, and while it is a great value, it doesnt make my income any higher, or make me more able to purchase the SS or dare i say *if* it is made Z/28 that i truely desire.

I've had a v6 camaro before, and while its a totally different beast than what we're going to be getting, its still not a v8, and wont have the sounds of the v8, or the other power. What did I do with that v6 camaro? i made it a v8. I figured i'd from that point on, buy only what I wanted to begin with, instead of settling for a "hold me over" regardless of how good of a car the v6 may be. That being said, the only way i can see myself having enough money to purchase a new camaro, is to either rob banks, win the lottery, or recieve some sort of inheretance.. and well only the first one is most likley to happen these days.

Guy, While you know vastly more than I ever will when it comes to GM and the business, I have to disagree with the whole income is not the driving force on buying a new car. If I made 70k a year, i'd be driving a brand new G8 now, and the wife would be in a brand new Tahoe. Where I live Cost of living isnt that high, and those two vehicles would be easily affordable on a combined family salary of 100k. But on our combined of 50k, its just no where near a reality.

The analogy of the E5, being able to buy a camaro may be valid, but single e5 military personnel have the choice of living on base, in base provided housing. Factor in that e5 paying a 80k mortgage at 6% apr for 30 years, and utilities, your down easily 1000.00 a month just for living expenses, and that E5 being able to purchase a new camaro drastically drop, unless he has room mates.

I've read in this thread that a lot of folks make more than the 150k cap i had put on it, and for those folks good for you! I am envious, but at the same time, I consider myself to be a fairly normal american, one of the old "middle class" that now is the "poor Class" If I made 150k a year, I wouldnt have a house payment, or any other debits, but alas, thats not my lot in life.. And I figured that alot of folks were in my boat as well. If I was wrong in this I apologize, but somehow i dont think i am. So in the end, it will probably be a used F5 for me, unless i won that bumble bee :)

The analogy of the E5, being able to buy a camaro may be valid, but single e5 military personnel have the choice of living on base, in base provided housing. Factor in that e5 paying a 80k mortgage at 6% apr for 30 years, and utilities, your down easily 1000.00 a month just for living expenses, and that E5 being able to purchase a new camaro drastically drop, unless he has room mates.

As a former E6 (Petty Officer First Class) I think I can speak on this a little bit. I do agree with your first point, but (at least in the Navy) E5 and above, whether they are married or not, are eligible for a (non-taxable) housing allotment. So while you may have a $1k mortgage, you are most likely getting about $800/month non-taxable housing allotment.

There are a ton of incentives for current military members that don't really get heard about.

As a former E6 (Petty Officer First Class) I think I can speak on this a little bit. I do agree with your first point, but (at least in the Navy) E5 and above, whether they are married or not, are eligible for a (non-taxable) housing allotment. So while you may have a $1k mortgage, you are most likely getting about $800/month non-taxable housing allotment.

There are a ton of incentives for current military members that don't really get heard about.

yea, i had heard about the incentives and allotment, as i've only heard of that stuff from my friends who did serve.. I never did, but you have a very valid point in what you state as well. I know if i had received an additional 800.00 a month tax free, i'd have a new camaro or g8 or even tahoe... :)

Plus the fact that in many states, military members don't have to pay tax when registering vehicles.

Can I afford it? Yes, probably cash... loans suck... is it a good idea to spend that much on a car? No... Am I going to get one? You bet your sweet butt!

My wife and I earn between 75 and 100k combined, and if the car came out today, we would not be able to afford one.

That's a very small picture of the situation, though. We have two mortgages and two car loans, plus a large chunk of debt left over from when I was unemployed a couple years ago.

In mid-2010, the car loans will be paid off and the second mortgage should be down low enough that we can refinance into a single, lower-rate loan. Then, I don't see why we wouldn't be able to buy one, if we decide that's the right thing to do when the time comes. :)

It's not mentioned in that article, but in the full letter to dealers GMAC also specified that they will no longer finance more than invoice:

In the short term, we will limit auto contracts to those consumers who have a minimum 700 credit bureau score, with an advance rate equal to or less than dealer invoice. This means that consumers will be required to make a down payment.

That means no 0 down and no negative equity trades.

Heck, the way things are going if everyone practices some restraint then you'll be able to buy the new Camaro at less than invoice like chevy's other crappy cars/trucks.......oh yeah and you'll be giving your money to GM whether you like it or not through your taxes. Don't buy one.....let the prices fall......(like you even have the self control......):lol:

GM quit being a car company for so many years to be a financial one, and now look at em.........