G8 coupe slip-up..

So a 2 door Supercharged Firehawk based off of the GXP is not a real Firehawk?


-Dave

Good ole SLP at it again. Slips up talking about a coupe and trying to backtrack it.

http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=989909 More info there.

Wow, I haven't read all the pages in that link, but I can't believe they'd slap the Firehawk name on anything other than a Firebird.

Yep, and Dave says "We're listening to the enthusiasts" but then says "It's a done deal" So he basically said we own the name, screw you guys we want money!! :freakout:

I bet that was a typo. People were probably saying a Firehawk should not be a 4 door sedan, and he was replying as to say yeah, it's a 4 door, but it's supercharged and based on the GXP... (at least that would be my guess from context, without reading the link).

We found out about this Firehawk thing at the Camaroz28.com summit last Friday. I knew this was going to piss off the Firehawk owners. Not sure what they are thinking with this idea...

Not to mention, you'll be able to get a Firehawk package on the V6 and GT, as well, not just on the GXP.

:|

No it wasn't a type. His next post was "Whoops let the cat out of the bag on that one, the Firehawk will be sold overseas as well"

Which in turn means he supposidly meant the Holden Coupe60 (which is concept and no approved for production). Of course it is all gone now because of the censorship at LS1tech, but maybe the black surburbans will take Dave away before he ruins the Firehawk name.

Not sure if it is slip up or not. He never really said there is going to be a G8 coupe from what I read.

Kind of sad to see the Firehawk moniker on something other than a Firebird.

No, but he confirmed that there is a Holden Commodore coupe coming. Which makes a "case" for a G8 coupe, but there will not ever be one in the US anyways.

that is fking ridiculous! screw you SLP!

No it wasn't a type. His next post was "Whoops let the cat out of the bag on that one, the Firehawk will be sold overseas as well"

Which in turn means he supposidly meant the Holden Coupe60 (which is concept and no approved for production). Of course it is all gone now because of the censorship at LS1tech, but maybe the black surburbans will take Dave away before he ruins the Firehawk name.Ah, I see.

Either way, as much as I love the G8, I don't see the Firehawk name. Even if it were OK, it would only be OK if it were available only as a GXP. How lame to have a V6 Firehawk get absolutely crushed by a standard G8 GT. In F-body times, the Firehawk was at the top of the Firebird heirarchy. Kinda lame to make it a sticker package available on any level G8.

Ah, I see.

Either way, as much as I love the G8, I don't see the Firehawk name. Even if it were OK, it would only be OK if it were available only as a GXP. How lame to have a V6 Firehawk get absolutely crushed by a standard G8 GT. In F-body times, the Firehawk was at the top of the Firebird heirarchy. Kinda lame to make it a sticker package available on any level G8.

I fully agree, I think it is an absolutely ridiculous way of getting some more money. It is sad that you have to try and rely on an old, successful name to try and make another go. As much as I want GM to succeed in every venture, I hope this new "Firehawk" flops, and flops hard.

Regardless if the name fits the car or not, why would some of you guys think a business wouldn't want and need to make money? There is no Firebird for them to make money from, so they have to go where they can. They did the same thing earlier with Ford and Dodge aftermarket parts. That is what a business does.

BTW...it will be MUCH more than just a "sticker package".

I'm all for SLP making money, but why, IMO, dilute the Firehawk brand by putting it on something, again IMO, that is not worthy?

They could have come up with some other name for their performance packages for the G8 et al and saved themselves from the backlash.

A few points come to mind:

1. I don't think "Firehawk" is that much of a hallowed, historically-significant name. Certainly not on the level of brining back "GTO" or "Chevelle". It was a rather obscure option on a slow-selling performance car, not a cultural icon or anything.

2. Seems that any time any company brings back any name, there's going to be a pack of people complain that the new model doesn't do it justice, it should just rest in peace, yada yada yada. Well, sorry to bust their bubble, but it can never be exactly the way it was lo those many years ago and people need to realize times change. And corporations have businesses to run, hopefully profitably.

3. I don't get the obsession over the number of doors a car has. If the car is good looking and performs well, it doesn't matter to me if there's 4 doors or 2. Four doors actually makes it more usable. And if people want to get into semantics, they should really learn the correct definition of a "coupe" first, something which a 2-door G8 likely would not be.

A few points come to mind:

1. I don't think "Firehawk" is that much of a hallowed, historically-significant name. Certainly not on the level of brining back "GTO" or "Chevelle". It was a rather obscure option on a slow-selling performance car, not a cultural icon or anything.

2. Seems that any time any company brings back any name, there's going to be a pack of people complain that the new model doesn't do it justice, it should just rest in peace, yada yada yada. Well, sorry to bust their bubble, but it can never be exactly the way it was lo those many years ago and people need to realize times change. And corporations have businesses to run, hopefully profitably.

3. I don't get the obsession over the number of doors a car has. If the car is good looking and performs well, it doesn't matter to me if there's 4 doors or 2. Four doors actually makes it more usable. And if people want to get into semantics, they should really learn the correct definition of a "coupe" first, something which a 2-door G8 likely would not be.

So do you agree or disagree that it is a bad idea to use the Firehawk name on the V6 model?

I don't like them using the Firehawk name on anything but a Firebird. I own one of rarest Firehawks ever produced and it just doesn't seem right. But yes, they do own the rights to the name, but I personally think it sounds silly for that particular car. It is next to impossible to think of Firehawk and not think of Firebird.

So do you agree or disagree that it is a bad idea to use the Firehawk name on the V6 model?

Bad idea. When trying to determine whether resurrecting an old name is a good idea, I try to think about what the original stood for, and what made it (presumably) such a good car for its time, not necessarily the exact details of its incarnation. The Firehawks always meant the top of the performance ladder for the popular sporty model of its time. It wasn't an appearance package; it's raison d'etre was to give even more performance than the best the OEM would put out. A V6 G8 definitely does not fit that.

That's actually my same criticism of the new Camaro. The 1969 Camaro was a great car, no doubt. But what really made it great? While a very beautiful car, it wasn't the exact shape of it that was the sole reason for its success. It was the right car for its time: modern in almost every detail, light weight, two-door, many engine options, rounded performance. It was the perfect car for young-ish folks to have something both practical and fun, while still being mostly mainstream with the rest of the market's sensibilities. It was not off in the fringes like the new Camaro is. And that's what the new Camaro forgot. GM thought the 69's success was just the shape and a big motor, totally ignoring what is relevant and modern in the 21st century. As I've said in other posts, something like the BMW 3-series is really occupying the market the Camaro used to. Something that all manner of young people want to own and be seen in, because it represents a perfect compromise for folks that need both excitement and practicality in their automobiles. GM should have produced something more like the Holden Coupe 60 as modern Camaro ... sure, it doesn't look like a 1969, but really, how many cars in the 21st century look that much like their 1960s forebears, aside from maybe a few superficial styling cues. A Coupe 60 or 3-series in 2008 would be hitting the same target market that the 1969 Camaro did, and to me that's what determines if a car is worthy of its name.

dilute the Firehawk brand

:think:

What? Without the G8, there is no Firehawk anymore, at all.

Also, it's not a brand.

I think they could very easily come up with a new name for the G8

I would have moved the firehawk name to the Solstice back when it was brand new, if it were my registered trademark to play with.

Give it a more aggressive front/rear fascia than the Solsice GXP, some sort of styling gimmick on the hood, and go to town on that turbo ecotec or set up a high revving low displacement genIV motor or something.

Regardless if the name fits the car or not, why would some of you guys think a business wouldn't want and need to make money? There is no Firebird for them to make money from, so they have to go where they can. They did the same thing earlier with Ford and Dodge aftermarket parts. That is what a business does.Of course they want to make money. That doesn't mean it is a good idea to slap the name "Firehawk" on a car that doesn't fit in with all the previous Firehawks. :shrug: And again, even if you can make the connection between the old Firebird-based 'Hawks and the new G8 Firehawk, it really only makes sense if it were based only on the GXP (or, at least, only on the V8 cars). Otherwise, why was there never a 3800 powered Firehawk? The Firehawk was the most performance oriented of the Firebirds, so it seems to me that if a G8 is to get the name, it ought to be the GXP.

Otherwise, the name is heavily diluted.

BTW...it will be MUCH more than just a "sticker package".I'm sure it will have some standard stuff. Some ground effects or spoilers, some suspension adjustments (lowering springs maybe?), different wheels/tires. Maybe a cold air kit and catback system too. But I didn't get the impression that there would be a supercharged V6 car, unless they are planning something later.

I don't own a Firehawk, so I don't personally have any skin in this. But I remember cringing internally as soon as Dave made the announcement on Friday that the Firehawk name was returning on the G8. I love the G8 and think it is a great car, but I knew the Firehawk / Firebird people were not going to go for this idea at all. When he said the Firehawk treatment would be available on all three G8 levels, I cringed even more. Nothing personal, I just don't really see it.

:shrug:

Think of it like Dodge offering the "Super Bee" or some similar package on the Charger line, all the way from the 2.7L rental car version to the mighty SRT8. :think:

I'm obviously way too emotional over old nameplates being used on newer cars and ruining them so this bothers me a lot. I'm not surprised that this happened though because car sales in general are so competitive that everyone is doing whatever they can to milk every drop of name recognition they can.

Oh well, I'll just voice my displeasure by doing my best to avoid SLP products from now on. That's really all you can do, vote with your pocket.

Of course they want to make money. That doesn't mean it is a good idea to slap the name "Firehawk" on a car that doesn't fit in with all the previous Firehawks. :shrug: And again, even if you can make the connection between the old Firebird-based 'Hawks and the new G8 Firehawk, it really only makes sense if it were based only on the GXP (or, at least, only on the V8 cars). Otherwise, why was there never a 3800 powered Firehawk? The Firehawk was the most performance oriented of the Firebirds, so it seems to me that if a G8 is to get the name, it ought to be the GXP.

Otherwise, the name is heavily diluted.


I don't think the name is that limited. Firehawk is SLP's name for modified Pontiacs.
It has value for that. As long as the Firehawks all perform well, that should be good enough.

But then I really don't understand people getting wrapped around the axle on names. I like reusing old names that I recall favorably. If the new car doesn't have the same precise layout and purpose as the old one, I don't care. As long as it's similar.

I think the modern Charger and GTO were both credits to the old names. If Olds were still around, I'd be quite pleased to be able to buy a 442, even if it was just a Commodore SS with an Olds badge (I prefer Commodore styling to G8 styling, but that's another thread).

I don't think the name is that limited. Firehawk is SLP's name for modified Pontiacs.
It has value for that. As long as the Firehawks all perform well, that should be good enough.

But then I really don't understand people getting wrapped around the axle on names. I like reusing old names that I recall favorably. If the new car doesn't have the same precise layout and purpose as the old one, I don't care. As long as it's similar.

I think the modern Charger and GTO were both credits to the old names. If Olds were still around, I'd be quite pleased to be able to buy a 442, even if it was just a Commodore SS with an Olds badge (I prefer Commodore styling to G8 styling, but that's another thread).

Part of what bothers me so much about using Firehawk again is that it just makes zero sense. Firebird ---> Firehawk at least worked somewhat even though I'm sure the naming had more to do with the tire or some other unknown item. G8--->Firehawk makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. If they are trying to use this car as a BMW or MB fighter, then they should be trying to distance the G8 as much as possible from the Fbody because it has recognition with poor quality and overall cheapness.

So what are you going to get out of this then? The majority of people who hold the Firehawk name in a high regard are very unhappy it's being used on a 4 door car, and the market they want to actually buy it is going to find out it was used previously on a "cheap and inferior" car and will happily stay with their German vehicles. Dave Hamburger even said they are going to put together a website that explains the heritage of the Firehawk so it's not like people aren't going to find out where it came from. It just doesn't make sense to me any way I look at it and I really do wonder what SLP is thinking with this.

:shrug: Just my line of thinking but hey, it's not like I studied this stuff or anything.

Part of what bothers me so much about using Firehawk again is that it just makes zero sense. Firebird ---> Firehawk at least worked somewhat even though I'm sure the naming had more to do with the tire or some other unknown item. G8--->Firehawk makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. If they are trying to use this car as a BMW or MB fighter, then they should be trying to distance the G8 as much as possible from the Fbody because it has recognition with poor quality and overall cheapness.

So what are you going to get out of this then? The majority of people who hold the Firehawk name in a high regard are very unhappy it's being used on a 4 door car, and the market they want to actually buy it is going to find out it was used previously on a "cheap and inferior" car and will happily stay with their German vehicles. Dave Hamburger even said they are going to put together a website that explains the heritage of the Firehawk so it's not like people aren't going to find out where it came from. It just doesn't make sense to me any way I look at it and I really do wonder what SLP is thinking with this.

:shrug: Just my line of thinking but hey, it's not like I studied this stuff or anything.

I believe you're over-thinking this.

Firehawk is the name for the SLP version of a sporty Pontiac, and that's it.


Long (overthought) version:

In the age of the internet, whatever you do, someone will complain, because it's so easy. So you pretty much have to ignore most negative reactions on forums like this and actually solicit responses to see how many people actually care.

If 20% of the target market has a vaguely favorable reaction to the name Firehawk, 79% don't know about it, and 1% go non-linear because there's no hoodscoop or something, that 1% will complain on the forums. No one else will post much. But if you base your product on that 1%, then you're doomed.

Just look at the reaction to the Charger, where the stories of the negative internet reaction even made the mainstream press. Three years later, it's a non-issue.

People don't like change, but they get over it.

Now if the research really does indicate that you'll anger/annoy/negatively amuse a large chunk of your target market with the name (LaCrosse in Quebec, NoVa in Spanish-speaking countries), then you better do something.

i just dont understand it. I always assumed that the Fire-HAWK, was supposed to be a more bad ass Fire-BIRD, hawk-bird, get it

It doesnt make sense with a G8 as it has no aviary lineage...

Why not call it the H8, or G9, or something along those lines

Dave will do anything to make a buck, and I'll leave it at that

I believe you're over-thinking this.

Firehawk is the name for the SLP version of a sporty Pontiac, and that's it.

Your underthinking this. Firehawk meant the fastest, most top end V8 powered Pontiac coupe (at the time that was the Firebird). Putting that name on a 4 door V6 car is like saying the G6 could just as easily have a Firehawk package. It is a sporty Pontiac, hell you could even say the G3 :yuck: is a sporty Pontiac and should get a Firehawk package.

Note I don't own, nor have I ever owned a Firehawk but I think that just sticking a name with a powerful history on something like a V6 mainstream sedan is just WRONG. As a long time 3rd gen guy I feel the 92 Firehawks ARE just as hallowed as the muscle cars of old. It had so many unique features that set it apart from Formulas and Trans Ams that it has always held a special place in my heart/mind.

If they wanted to do a Firehawk from the GXP model and come up with another name for the GT and V6 versions great, I have almost no problem with that.

I sadly wasn't able to go to the Summit (missed seeing guys like Charlie, Joe and Doug :( ) due to financial constraints, having bought my new house back in June. It killed me to cancel my registration :( Anyway, I would've wanted to smack Dave Hamburger upside the head, and ask him what the hell he was thinking, if I was handed that card. I sold 10 Firehawks in 2002. These were special cars, sold to die-hard enthusiasts. They were performance SPORTS CARS. Not 4 door sedans.

SLP has lost it...seriously. This honestly lessens the respect I have for the company. I've always been a die-hard SLP fan. The only aftermarket parts on my Z28 are all SLP. I've always respected the quality of their products, and the conviction with which they helped shape the 4th gen years. Were it not for them cancelling virtually EVERY decent third and 4th gen part they had in their catalog over the years, I'd still be buying their stuff for my RS resurrection.

But this is an embarrassment. If I was Dave Hamburger, I'd be ashamed. They were so controlling over the collectability of the old Firehawk, it was impossible to even get a hood unless you had a damaged hood to send back. Now? Throwing Firehawk logos on a 4 door, 4,100 lb sedan? I love the G8...

But this is downright embarrassing. Re-do a Camaro. Re-do a G8, and call it something else. But this? I can see the auto mags now, ragging on the name, but loving the car...

They were so controlling over the collectability of the old Firehawk, it was impossible to even get a hood unless you had a damaged hood to send back. Now? Throwing Firehawk logos on a 4 door, 4,100 lb sedan?

They went from that, to selling everything necessary to clone 96/97 SS's on eBay for ~200 bucks until I raised a stink about it.

I sadly wasn't able to go to the Summit (missed seeing guys like Charlie, Joe and Doug :( ) due to financial constraints, having bought my new house back in June. It killed me to cancel my registration :( Anyway, I would've wanted to smack Dave Hamburger upside the head, and ask him what the hell he was thinking, if I was handed that card. I sold 10 Firehawks in 2002. These were special cars, sold to die-hard enthusiasts. They were performance SPORTS CARS. Not 4 door sedans.

SLP has lost it...seriously. This honestly lessens the respect I have for the company. I've always been a die-hard SLP fan. The only aftermarket parts on my Z28 are all SLP. I've always respected the quality of their products, and the conviction with which they helped shape the 4th gen years. Were it not for them cancelling virtually EVERY decent third and 4th gen part they had in their catalog over the years, I'd still be buying their stuff for my RS resurrection.

But this is an embarrassment. If I was Dave Hamburger, I'd be ashamed. They were so controlling over the collectability of the old Firehawk, it was impossible to even get a hood unless you had a damaged hood to send back. Now? Throwing Firehawk logos on a 4 door, 4,100 lb sedan? I love the G8...

But this is downright embarrassing. Re-do a Camaro. Re-do a G8, and call it something else. But this? I can see the auto mags now, ragging on the name, but loving the car...

Hey! I was looking for you Jason! I saw Joe, but not Doug.

Anyways, I'm not sure I have a dog in this fight. I feel so beat up and numb over the mass of the Camaro - I feel like what's the freaking difference on what anyone does anymore.

Oh, here's another reason for you to love Hamburger and SLP, Jason. Someone asked him if we could expect a continuation or even some new pieces for the 3rd gen.
Hamburger smuggly responded, "We're done with the 3rd gen".

I believe you're over-thinking this.

Firehawk is the name for the SLP version of a sporty Pontiac, and that's it.


How many Firehawks have there been other than the Firebirds?

How many Firehawks have there been other than the Firebirds?

A Superhero, a rollercoaster, a helicoper, a 1993 movie, a tire and a computer game. But from SLP, none that I know of ;)

A Superhero, a rollercoaster, a helicoper, a 1993 movie, a tire and a computer game. But from SLP, none that I know of ;)

Well I was just talking about from SLP. :p But my point is the Firehawk, for its entire life-span, has *only* been a Firebird. If the name had been previously used on a different model then it might not be such a big deal, but Firehawk has never been anything other than an SLP modified Firebird. Calling the G8 a Firehawk just makes no sense to me, and the argument that "Firehawk is a modified Hi-Po Pontiac" just doesn't hold water with me. If that was the case, then the Grand Prixs that SLP modified would have been called Firehawk, but they weren't.

I'm not wild about it:no:

I think the general population hears "Pontiac" and "firehawk" they automatically think of a Firebird with a big bird across the hood.

How about
Pontiac G8 T/A? (not Trans Am)
G8 X?
G8 GXP W? (like wide Track and WS options?)

Volvo uses R
MB uses AMG
BMW uses M
Cadillac uses V

Chevrolet uses SS

Pontiac needs to create a brand identity for their performance sedan.

I sadly wasn't able to go to the Summit (missed seeing guys like Charlie, Joe and Doug :( ) due to financial constraints, having bought my new house back in June. It killed me to cancel my registration :( Anyway, I would've wanted to smack Dave Hamburger upside the head, and ask him what the hell he was thinking, if I was handed that card. I sold 10 Firehawks in 2002. These were special cars, sold to die-hard enthusiasts. They were performance SPORTS CARS. Not 4 door sedans.

SLP has lost it...seriously. This honestly lessens the respect I have for the company. I've always been a die-hard SLP fan. The only aftermarket parts on my Z28 are all SLP. I've always respected the quality of their products, and the conviction with which they helped shape the 4th gen years. Were it not for them cancelling virtually EVERY decent third and 4th gen part they had in their catalog over the years, I'd still be buying their stuff for my RS resurrection.

But this is an embarrassment. If I was Dave Hamburger, I'd be ashamed. They were so controlling over the collectability of the old Firehawk, it was impossible to even get a hood unless you had a damaged hood to send back. Now? Throwing Firehawk logos on a 4 door, 4,100 lb sedan? I love the G8...

But this is downright embarrassing. Re-do a Camaro. Re-do a G8, and call it something else. But this? I can see the auto mags now, ragging on the name, but loving the car...
+1 :yes:

It's as queer as a Cobalt Z28.

IMHO, Pontiac needs to come up with a new name, or perhaps follow the other big brands with a letter or number designation. Or screw the "G" series entirely, the letter alone makes me think "bling bling" --and not in a good way.

I think it's funny when people put wheels of other model cars on their own cars (like Z06 wheels on a Z28). Essentially, Pontiac is doing the same thing with branding. It might look/sound good, but it kind of belongs to, and looks better on, a different car.

(like Z06 wheels on a Z28)

*looks at sig* :o

How many Firehawks have there been other than the Firebirds?

As an aside, I believe this means that we might as well give up on the Firebird returning anytime soon, as SLP would surely save the name for that.

So maybe this means that even though Pontiac is willing to let a storied name die, SLP isn't, so they're putting it on a corporate cousin of the Camaro, since there is no corporate brother.

Your underthinking this.

No. I spent way too much time on my apparently unconvincing reply :D

As an aside, I believe this means that we might as well give up on the Firebird returning anytime soon

I was under the impression this was a dead issue years ago. Not that I am happy about it, but have accepted reality.

*looks at sig* :o

You know my opinions aren't always popular, but I voice them anyway. :p

FWIW, your Z looks good, but I see it and think--"hey, those wheels didn't come on that car...those are...Z06 wheels!"

Kind of like if I ever see a G8 Firehawk, I'm going to think..."damn, I wish they would have brought back the T/A, because the 'Firehawk' was a really hot car when I was growing up."

GM especially has a way of bastardizing names, so this isn't anything new. Who would have ever thought "SS" would have ended up on a front-drive 4cyl car? Or a V6/auto Impala? :cool: ...Or that the Malibu came back as a front-drive family hauler/rental car?

Couple of things here:

First, don't confuse GM with SLP - Pontiac has nothing to do with this car or the name beyond supplying the base car. This is SLP's baby alone.

Second, I have owned two one of a kind Firehawks and I'm fine with the name going on the G8. Not so much on the V6 cars though.

And lastly, here is my post from the Firehawk board. :

Potentially, this could yield the most perfect ride for me ever built.

Provided that it is available on the upcoming G8 ST as well.

2-doors, a supercharger, and a Firehawk badge on my default bodystyle.

It would be heaven for me.

I dont think its that serious. When it was announced at teh CZ28 summit, I knew it was going to turn into yet another GTO debate.
G8 ST Firehawk would be bad ass...

Looks like a great car...but I think putting that name on it will make more people angry than happy. I would hate to be a guy that pulls up at a SLP track day with his G8 Firehawk...

What type of supercharger are they planning on using? A roots type or a centrifigul? Sounds pretty good, however I agree with 99% on here it should be called something else.

A 2-door would be acceptable, a 4-door :no:

I bet this is how people were thinking back when the 94 Impala SS was announced...

A 4 door SS?

I'm not wild about it:no:

I think the general population hears "Pontiac" and "firehawk" they automatically think of a Firebird with a big bird across the hood.

How about
Pontiac G8 T/A? (not Trans Am)
G8 X?
G8 GXP W? (like wide Track and WS options?)

Volvo uses R
MB uses AMG
BMW uses M
Cadillac uses V

Chevrolet uses SS

Pontiac needs to create a brand identity for their performance sedan.

They could do this with a GXP, and not cheapen it with a G6 GXP and Torrent GXP. GXP should be on par with SS.

Since SLP is going to make a new G8, why not call it an SLP G8 or a G8 SLP. It would do more for their brand recognition.

Hennessy Viper
Lingenfelter Corvette
Saleen Mustang

Now, if they are going to do this package on any G8, I don't like the idea. But, why not call it an SLP G8.

A 2-door would be acceptable, a 4-door :no:

I still think "Firehawk" just belongs on Firebirds. Firehawk just seems like a natural adaptation of Firebird.

I bet this is how people were thinking back when the 94 Impala SS was announced...

A 4 door SS?

NA...Impala SS had been done before...in 6 cylinder trim (which is worse than being a sedan IMO).

The problem is "Firehawk" sounds so much like "Firebird"...it is hard to see it on another car. Also, the package does not really show any design evolution. It looks like some dealer bought some old SLP decals and cobbled a car togethor.

Since the subject of a Holden coupe (or the next Monaro), at the risk of stirring up a behive, I'm going to present a "hypothetical" situation.

Suppose Holden actually made the Commodore coupe using the inner coupe construction of the Camaro Zeta with the original "firewall" to front wheel setup of the Commodore.

Suppose you remember that Holden developed the coupe, assembled the Camaro prototypes, and piggybacked their own program with the Camaro.

Suppose the numbers made sense, and Holden decided to goahead and make the car, starting, say, within the next 12 months or less.

Now suppose it was sold everywhere except the US because of a combination of the US-Aussie exchange rate, feeling it would take away sales and attention from the Camaro, uncertainty about the US economy, and a fear of perceptions as it's working on government loan guarantees as well as more friendly CAFE guidelines.

Sounds pretty plausable, huh? ;)

Now suppose it was sold everywhere except the US because of a combination of the US-Aussie exchange rate, feeling it would take away sales and attention from the Camaro, uncertainty about the US economy, and a fear of perceptions as it's working on government loan guarantees as well as more friendly CAFE guidelines.

Sounds pretty plausable, huh? ;)

If you mean it gets sold in Canada, and that it looks like the Coupe 60 (preferably without the Pontiac buck teeth), then I'll be at the front of the line to buy one :)

Grrrrrrr....

Since the subject of a Holden coupe (or the next Monaro), at the risk of stirring up a behive, I'm going to present a "hypothetical" situation.

Suppose Holden actually made the Commodore coupe using the inner coupe construction of the Camaro Zeta with the original "firewall" to front wheel setup of the Commodore.

Suppose you remember that Holden developed the coupe, assembled the Camaro prototypes, and piggybacked their own program with the Camaro.

Suppose the numbers made sense, and Holden decided to goahead and make the car, starting, say, within the next 12 months or less.

Now suppose it was sold everywhere except the US because of a combination of the US-Aussie exchange rate, feeling it would take away sales and attention from the Camaro, uncertainty about the US economy, and a fear of perceptions as it's working on government loan guarantees as well as more friendly CAFE guidelines.

Sounds pretty plausable, huh? ;)

I still think "Firehawk" just belongs on Firebirds. Firehawk just seems like a natural adaptation of Firebird.

I believe most of the automotive world would agree... ;)

If you mean it gets sold in Canada, and that it looks like the Coupe 60 (preferably without the Pontiac buck teeth), then I'll be at the front of the line to buy one :)

Yeah. About as soon as you start seeing Holden dealerships in Canada....

If you mean it gets sold in Canada, and that it looks like the Coupe 60 (preferably without the Pontiac buck teeth), then I'll be at the front of the line to buy one :)

Well, I'm not sure if the hypothetical situation would include Canada or not, but I would include Europe, South Africa, & the Middle East. I didn't say it before, but say it was made on at the Elizebeth City plant in Australia on Holden's assembly line? They made quite a few Camaros down there, afterall.

Well, I'm not sure if the hypothetical situation would include Canada or not, but I would include Europe, South Africa, & the Middle East. I didn't say it before, but say it was made on at the Elizebeth City plant in Australia on Holden's assembly line? They made quite a few Camaros down there, afterall.

Yeah, I wasn't really serious ... if the US doesn't get it, we definitely won't. Since the certification requirements are pretty much identical, it wouldn't make sense to do all the work to sell it in Canada and then ignore the US. Even with CAFE.

I still think "Firehawk" just belongs on Firebirds. Firehawk just seems like a natural adaptation of Firebird.

I agree with you, but when they go ahead and do it anyway, it should at least be a 2 door.

Yeah, but with Pontiac on the block, where the hell would it go?
Buick would be the only other thing, but then you have a 2 door coupe in or about the same price range as the Camaro or CTS coupe.

To be honest. I think 99% of the American population could give two ****s that they will call it a Firehawk.

If it's fast and looks cool it will be the envy of high school kids and will sell just as well as if they named it anything else.

"Enthusiasts" go a little overboard sometimes.

To be honest. I think 99% of the American population could give two ****s that they will call it a Firehawk.

If it's fast and looks cool it will be the envy of high school kids and will sell just as well as if they named it anything else.

"Enthusiasts" go a little overboard sometimes.

Just a little :D

To be honest. I think 99% of the American population could give two ****s that they will call it a Firehawk.

If it's fast and looks cool it will be the envy of high school kids and will sell just as well as if they named it anything else.

"Enthusiasts" go a little overboard sometimes.

That's the entire point, anyone who isn't an enthusiast doesn't care about the name. Think about that for five seconds and then maybe you will understand why using the name bothers people.

Make sense now?

That's the entire point, anyone who isn't an enthusiast doesn't care about the name. Think about that for five seconds and then maybe you will understand why using the name bothers people.

Make sense now?

Exactly. If non-enthusiasts don't care about the name, then what's the point in even calling it Firehawk? They could call it anything else and it'd still be an SLP modified G8 that would be the "envy of all the highschool kids."

could it be because they own the name? is a cool name they don't have to come up with a new name.. they don't have to do anything pretty much just come up with some stickers and sell...

could it be because they own the name? is a cool name they don't have to come up with a new name.. they don't have to do anything pretty much just come up with some stickers and sell...

DING DING DING!!!

We have a winner! :lol: