Bob Lutz on the Colbert Report, talking about the Volt

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080918/VIDEO/809189994/1530/FREE

Its very amusing!

I have come to the conclusion that the Chevrolet Volt is simply a rolling advertisement.

I can't name more than a few weeks over it's development that GM hasn't put out some press release or spokesperson talking about the Volt. The Volt is going to cost at least 50% more than the Prius, GM isn't going to make money on the Volt.

Yet, the Cruze which will be out in less than a year which will actually make GM money and sell in far greater numbers and will get fantastic fuel economy due to a small DI 4 isn't even mentioned.

Then again, it sometimes costs more to advertize till you get an opion than it does to spend on a real car, so maybe Volt is worth the money and press GM is pouring into it.

They just better have good vehicles to sell (outside of enthusiasts and niche vehicles).

I have come to the conclusion that the Chevrolet Volt is simply a rolling advertisement.


GM needs a Name right now.

The Volt is definitely a halo car of sorts for the ads... while the Cruze may be a fine vehicle it's not going to generate 1/10th the buzz that the Volt will, which means if you're going to spend X amount on advertising that will change consumers' perception of the greenness and quality of your company, you're better off doing it with the car that generates more buzz per dollar.

I'll bet you that people talking about the Volt, thinking GM=efficient, GM=innovative, GM=quality will start to wonder... well the Volt is too expensive for me or isn't out yet... what else might they have. Oh here's the Cruze and it gets great mileage for half the price!

The make is just as important as the model and so the Volt can do far more for the make's image which can trickle down to positive impact on the models.

That video was hilarious. :)

I expect that, a few years into Volt production, GM will have learned a lot. Battery technology costs will have decreased, too, and they'll be able to release a second-generation Volt that is even more efficient while coming with a more reasonable price tag.

Even if the first generation Volt is a sales flop, I think it's a good first step.

I have come to the conclusion that the Chevrolet Volt is simply a rolling advertisement.

I can't name more than a few weeks over it's development that GM hasn't put out some press release or spokesperson talking about the Volt. The Volt is going to cost at least 50% more than the Prius, GM isn't going to make money on the Volt.

You are correct, and I agree.
I think that has been the intent all along, and it's not a bad plan.
It's getting GM LOTS of free press and discussion - that's for sure.

As I said in a post yesterday, I think it was a HUGE mistake to release production images and info about the car so early. In this day of hybrids everywhere and 18-24 months programs at Ford and Toyota and Honda... it's giving the guy on the other side of the table a peek at your cards. And besides that, I think it's risky because the body will be so "old" to the eyes by the time you can actually buy one, that the curb appeal will be far removed.

Nonetheless, I think GM needs to go ahead and ride this wave as far as they can go with it, but they must be VERY careful how they behave while on it. Promises about technology, quality, and other virtuous characteristics that are made now must come true, or those misgivings will turn into poison for future product in the eyes of the buying public.

I have come to the conclusion that the Chevrolet Volt is simply a rolling advertisement.

I can't name more than a few weeks over it's development that GM hasn't put out some press release or spokesperson talking about the Volt. The Volt is going to cost at least 50% more than the Prius, GM isn't going to make money on the Volt.

Yet, the Cruze which will be out in less than a year which will actually make GM money and sell in far greater numbers and will get fantastic fuel economy due to a small DI 4 isn't even mentioned.

Then again, it sometimes costs more to advertize till you get an opion than it does to spend on a real car, so maybe Volt is worth the money and press GM is pouring into it.

They just better have good vehicles to sell (outside of enthusiasts and niche vehicles).

thats what the prius was. they didnt get as much press leading up to the car but when it first came out toyota took a hit on all of them they produced. and now they arguably have the greenest image of any major automaker. Now its GM's turn. and i say good. knock the prius off its podium and show why American cars =/=gas guzzling pigs just bc its not a toyota or a honda

Kudos to Lutz for going on the Colbert Report.

Those who go on these shows and don't know their stuff become the butt of the joke quite quickly...

It was a great episode, Lutz sounded like he was dying. lol

Can I charge it off my hummer ahahaha

Or the part about the type of women (environmentalist) it will attract hahaha

I noticed he gave colbert the concept model and not production.
Bet there's a whole box of those left over with no where to go :lol:

it seemed as though lutz was caught off guard for the first half or so then he started to lighten up nearer to the end

you'd think he'd have been prepped on how that show works

One of the options will be a photo-valtaic roof.
Another idea I had was to put that extra thin pliable solar cell material on the roof of the volt. I know it would provide much charge but it wuold make for great advertising and could steal alot of the green thumpers from the Prius.
:cool:

Poor Lutz.

He looked like he was going to have a heart attack

Seems like a cool guy, definitely goes with what I've heard about him. :cool:

:cool:

Did he say it was going to be an option at production? I didn't pay too close of attention but it sounded more like he was saying at some point in the future they'd be doing something like that.

FWIW Audi and some other companies have been doing the solar thing for years now though they've never used it to power the car... they've used it for keeping the car cool or warm when parked and keeping the battery charged up.

I think some Prius owners have modded their cars with solar roofs too. It's definitely something we'll see more of in the future I think... with panels getting cheaper and more efficient.

One of my favorite shows on TV. It's hard for anyone to get a word in on Stephen but Lutz did a pretty good job. Not as well as Huckabee does but that would be asking a lot from a GM car guy.
If anything the Volt gets GM into the public eye for doing something different than what the other car makers are doing. Let the dealers tell people how much the Volt costs and that the Cruze is a better buy. What GM needs is good press and they need to get back to the days when they led the industry with innovation. The Volt sells this for GM and in on works the green front.

Next gen Prius will have solar panels to run the A/C.

Next gen Prius will have solar panels to run the A/C.

Good luck with that. A square meter of modern solar panels yields perhaps 200 W of electrical power. That might be enough to run the HVAC fan, but I don't see running a compressor on that little power.

I like that he asked if he could charge the Volt from the cigarette lighter in his hummer. That was awesome.

Hilarious! :D

Good luck with that. A square meter of modern solar panels yields perhaps 200 W of electrical power. That might be enough to run the HVAC fan, but I don't see running a compressor on that little power.

As I have pointed out before, a compressor+refrigerant solution is not the only way to cool a car.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_cooling

As I have pointed out before, a compressor+refrigerant solution is not the only way to cool a car.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_cooling
that won't even put a dent in the heat inside a car anywhere in the south during the summer

Next gen Prius will have solar panels to run the A/C.

At the 5:30 mark in the clip he says the same thing about the volt.

B

You are correct, and I agree.
I think that has been the intent all along, and it's not a bad plan.
It's getting GM LOTS of free press and discussion - that's for sure.

Yeah, I think its a responce to the "who killed the electric car" BS. Its a very smart move I think. The EV1 was not considered to be worth it so it was dropped. This thing probably would not have been worth it, if it were not for image. It pushes responsibility back to the enviromentalists. To me its like saying "Ok we built it. We heard you and produced this very green car. Its expensive but we knew it would be but we pushed it ahead anyway. It is a green car. But if it dies this time it will be because people were unwilling to pay for it. The public will decide if this car lives or dies."

Genius!

First time I've heard a cost per mile number for the Volt.. Lutz says 3 to 8 cents per mile and then says like 70-80 cents per gallon

Let's take the average of 3 to 8 and say 5 cents per mile. At 75 cents per gallon he's trying to compare this car to something that only gets 15 mpg which just isn't what cars of the Volt's size get these days.. try more like twice that. So really the Volt, at 4 dollars per gallon, is like a car that gets the equivallent of 50 to 130 mpg for the first 40 miles (in terms of cost).

If you were closer to the 50 mpg end of that range the Volt might not be that appealing, actually... especially if cars like the Cruze and whatever is competing with it are hitting low 40s for their entire range and selling for half the price of the Volt.

Lots of variables here, but how about this:
40 miles consumes 8 kWh of juice; $.10 per kWh x 8 = $.80;
$.80/40 miles = $.02 per mile.
30 mpg car (at $3.60 per gallon) costs $.12 per mile.
.02/.12=.167
.167 x $3.60=$.6012
So, using these assumptions, the first 40 miles is the equivalent to a 30-mpg car using 60-cent a gallon gas.

Actually equivalent to 180 mpg at $3.60/gallon.

Or have I gone terribly wrong somewhere?

There is more that goes in to cost per mile than just fuel. There will still be maintenance on an ICE. Then, you need to know the usefull life of the $17,000 battery pack so you can depreciate it. If you pay cash for the car, you are losing earned interest income on about 50% of the purchase price when compared to the price of a similar sized conventionaly powered vehicle. If you get a loan for the vehicle, you will be paying interest on twice the amount of a similar sized gas powered vehicle. Then there is the difference of insurance between a $20,000 car and a $40,000 car. Is it possible the battery pack can be damaged in a collision? Then what price do you put on a first year vehicle with cutting edge technology that has had 10 years of testing done in 2 years. Will a new and improved Volt come out in 2011? And then there is the possibilty of a government tax credit to purchase one, which could make it all worth it.

That video was hilarious. :)

I expect that, a few years into Volt production, GM will have learned a lot. Battery technology costs will have decreased, too, and they'll be able to release a second-generation Volt that is even more efficient while coming with a more reasonable price tag.

Even if the first generation Volt is a sales flop, I think it's a good first step.

I have yet to watch the video. My big concern with the Volt is that it's going to be like any other great American creation.

The first Volt generation will cost a lot. It will work well, and there will be a lot of interest surrounding it. GM will have bent over backwards to make it happen, and sales will be slow to recover their initial investment, even if it sells well.

And then, some company like Toyota will take all it's good points, innovate it by putting a clock on it, and sell it for cheaper--because they've refined the manufacturing process, cut costs...and ooooh it's got a clock, so it must be better.

Does this sound familiar? -- VCR? Cooking ranges? Microwave Ovens?

There is more that goes in to cost per mile than just fuel. There will still be maintenance on an ICE. Then, you need to know the usefull life of the $17,000 battery pack so you can depreciate it. If you pay cash for the car, you are losing earned interest income on about 50% of the purchase price when compared to the price of a similar sized conventionaly powered vehicle. If you get a loan for the vehicle, you will be paying interest on twice the amount of a similar sized gas powered vehicle. Then there is the difference of insurance between a $20,000 car and a $40,000 car. Is it possible the battery pack can be damaged in a collision? Then what price do you put on a first year vehicle with cutting edge technology that has had 10 years of testing done in 2 years. Will a new and improved Volt come out in 2011? And then there is the possibilty of a government tax credit to purchase one, which could make it all worth it.

Yep... all good points. I jget the feeling that unless gas gets even more expensive it's going to be VERY difficult to justify the cost of the volt as a consumer no matter how long you keep it, UNLESS you consider that maybe the Volt is a nicer vehicle than whatever you're comparing it to at half the price. Maybe the Volt will be more like an Acura TSX in terms of quality, comfort, and feature content? Though that's pretty unlikely since almost half the price is the battery pack alone.

Also I'm going to guess that the battery pack is designed to last the life of the vehicle short of a major wreck or unintended defect or something.

I read an article a few months ago that said there still hasn't been a single Prius battery replaced due to 'wearing out'... the only ones replaced have been in wrecks or had some design defect. Age has yet to be an issue. This is kind of foreign to people used to their laptop batteries going bad every 2-3 years but if you only let your laptop stay in a range of 30 to 70% of its charge capacity then it too would probably last a couple decades. Lithium Ion is stressed only at the ends of its charge cycle... full charge and no charge are what kill them.

I read an article a few months ago that said there still hasn't been a single Prius battery replaced due to 'wearing out'... the only ones replaced have been in wrecks or had some design defect. Age has yet to be an issue.

This is the advantage of a "traditional" hybrid - if the battery life decreases (and it will), the effects are small and not likely to be noticed by the average consumer. Most Prius owners wouldn't pay enough attention to notice that the IC engine kicks in just a bit sooner on each standing-start, and it'd be even more difficult to figure out that the regen capabilities were degraded unless you track your fuel economy extremely closely.

Now, if the battery in your plug-in or EV loses capacity, that will be far too obvious to those that drive the full range of the pack on a regular basis.


Lithium Ion is stressed only at the ends of its charge cycle... full charge and no charge are what kill them.

False. Lithium-ion batteries also have a calendar-life problem. If you take a lithium-ion battery, put a full charge on it, and store it at about 40C or so, you'll lose about 20% capacity per year without ever cycling the battery :eek: Of course, this problem only gets worse at higher temps, and so the poor dude that parks on blacktop every day in Arizona will likely experience even greater degradation - unless there's supplimental key-off cooling systems. Might that provide a hint as to why a rooftop solar panel would be helpful? ;)

Cycle life degradation adds further degradation to the pack, but at least that can be tested and modeled with highly-accelerated life testing. The calendar-life problem is not so easy (read: near impossible) to acceleration as there may be multiple modes of failure, and so this is likely why GM is baking in a lot of potential warrany costs.

In all likelihood, some unknown calendar life issue will cause big problems in the first few generations of lithium-ion vehicle batteries. This is likely the reason why Toyota has been playing with lithium batteries in its JDM Yaris with the start-stop/"micro hybrid" system - that'll give them a chance to learn about the real-world degradation of lithium-ion batteries in a very low-risk environment. GM, on the other hand, is going to be doing a bit of a high-wire act without a net.

GM, on the other hand, is going to be doing a bit of a high-wire act without a net.

Desparate times call for desparate measures. :(

We can only hope it works.

Yeah, I think its a responce to the "who killed the electric car" BS. Its a very smart move I think. The EV1 was not considered to be worth it so it was dropped.

GM killed the EV1 and nobody cared. People only started caring years later when gas prices were skyrocketing and environmentalism was trendy - and then they went and pinned the tail on GM for it. I dont know if the Volt will be worth it either - but atleast this time people are watching and listening, unlike the EV1...