What about this? An answer to the Z28 issue

If the Z28 doesnt come out as its on model what if GM offers a supercharger for the SS to essentially make it a Z28 and still cover it under factory warranty. maybe have suspension/brakes upgrade kits as well. Maybe make them dealer installed and can be added before or after you take delivery. I figure it could be a way for GM to offer a Z28 like car that we all want but not harm their cafe numbers. Would you go for that?

If the Z28 doesnt come out as its on model what if GM offers a supercharger for the SS to essentially make it a Z28 and still cover it under factory warranty. maybe have suspension/brakes upgrade kits as well. Maybe make them dealer installed and can be added before or after you take delivery. I figure it could be a way for GM to offer a Z28 like car that we all want but not harm their cafe numbers. Would you go for that?

what makes you think if that could be done it wouldnt be a Z28 and get Z28 badging? BTW I voted SS as if I can swing one that probably will be it. By some stroke of luck if I get in a position where I can afford a lightweight Z28 road racer I probably will.

Being a self-proclaimed Z/28 afficianado, I'm torn.

On the one hand, I can see the value for the Camaro brand in having a Z/28 model - both because it would make a glowing and attention getting halo and it would also go a long way towards straightening out the Camaro model hierarchy, so bungled and mutilated on the 4th gen.

On the other hand, is a supercharged, nose heavy, 4100 pound, erm, "ponycar" a Z/28? Nope. Not to me.

Too much GT500 envy at the Camaro Team. Come on guys!! You know that's not the essence of a Z/28.

what makes you think if that could be done it wouldnt be a Z28 and get Z28 badging? BTW I voted SS as if I can swing one that probably will be it. By some stroke of luck if I get in a position where I can afford a lightweight Z28 road racer I probably will.

Well the badging could be an option but the idea was that it would start out as an SS and would not come from the factory as a Z28. I dont know the rules behind CAFE but im assuming that aftermarket parts that are still OEM wont affect GM's CAFE rating but having a 550hp Z28 gas guzzler probably would (and not a good one). Do you get what im saying?

say SS is ~$30,000 (starting)
Potential Z28 would be say 40,000-45,000. the differences would be obviously power, then change suspension, a couple body changes, wheels, and maybe light weight materials.
but if GM can not justify the Z28 then they can still build the parts and sell them to the people who want them.
Supercharger kit with accessory items and tune around 7000
new hood 800
suspension components 1000
etc etc
they could potentially make the same amount (if people buy everything the Z would have) or just some. maybe someone wants an SS from the beginning but a year or so down want more power. well with this they could.

Part of this is me wanting the SS, not wanting to wait or pay for the Z28 will want to eventually supercharge but still keep the warranty.

Although I like your idea, IMVHO, the bottom end isn't built to take the boost; look at the CTS-V. Forged crank, piston squirters, better rods, etc., the LS3 nor L99 have these. If GM were to improve the LS3 to stand the boost and live past 100K miles without problem, I'd be down for a kit. Although what I'd like to see Z28 to be doesn't follow the original formula (no arguement there) I'm looking to kill a few Cobras - legally (I live in CA.) Although what I'm thinking is probably out of my price range, I'd do whatever I could to afford one, I'll tell you that.

Well the badging could be an option but the idea was that it would start out as an SS and would not come from the factory as a Z28. I dont know the rules behind CAFE but im assuming that aftermarket parts that are still OEM wont affect GM's CAFE rating but having a 550hp Z28 gas guzzler probably would (and not a good one). Do you get what im saying?

say SS is ~$30,000 (starting)
Potential Z28 would be say 40,000-45,000. the differences would be obviously power, then change suspension, a couple body changes, wheels, and maybe light weight materials.
but if GM can not justify the Z28 then they can still build the parts and sell them to the people who want them.
Supercharger kit with accessory items and tune around 7000
new hood 800
suspension components 1000
etc etc
they could potentially make the same amount (if people buy everything the Z would have) or just some. maybe someone wants an SS from the beginning but a year or so down want more power. well with this they could.

Part of this is me wanting the SS, not wanting to wait or pay for the Z28 will want to eventually supercharge but still keep the warranty.

Im sure GM will sell tons of parts to make whatever car you want to customize and improve performance on the camaro. If thats what youre talking about there are probably going to be tons of customized camaros with different configurations. NA, Super charged. Some with Lower gears, others with whatever. If thats what youre talking about, Im sure the OEM parts will be available for do it yourself will be there with no consistant theme.

If youre talking about aftermarket shops workarounds that would be a little better. Shelby I think has done that in the past with the Shelby Mustangs. The cars I think were technically Shelbys and he wasnt bound by the same constraints that Ford were. Im not sure about the SLP with the SS cars or even the GMMP ZL1 cars. I am sure those cars will crop up in the way of Saleen, Roush, and the like. Maybe its time to bring back the Central Office Production Order :D

I do not think badging should EVER be an option on a model. Either it is or it isnt. A Z28 should be defined inhouse or outside or it isnt a Z28 period. They should be badged without execption. Same with any ZL1 or 1LE or any other model for that matter. I think the worst thing that could happen is a model to come out like the previous ZL1 or 1LE and people argue that there doesnt need to be a new version because technically the unbadged 5th gen Z28 was not badged and therfore is not a model... Think about this. If you buy a Z28 and you debadge it you have a debadged Z28 that still has the value of a Z28 factory car. If you buy a Z28 LIKE car without badging or you modify a 5th gen to what you think one should be, and you decide to put a badge on later, youve just put graphics on a modified/customized car. There is a HUGE difference. One is a factory Z28 new car that is a recognized model with that value/ resale value. The other is a new car you modified yourself say from an SS that is no model and just lost resale value lower than an SS to boot. Also you just possibly voided your warrenty.

Although I like your idea, IMVHO, the bottom end isn't built to take the boost; look at the CTS-V. Forged crank, piston squirters, better rods, etc., the LS3 nor L99 have these. If GM were to improve the LS3 to stand the boost and live past 100K miles without problem, I'd be down for a kit. Although what I'd like to see Z28 to be doesn't follow the original formula (no arguement there) I'm looking to kill a few Cobras - legally (I live in CA.) Although what I'm thinking is probably out of my price range, I'd do whatever I could to afford one, I'll tell you that.

They did that. It is called the LS9 ;)

Im sure GM will sell tons of parts to make whatever car you want to customize and improve performance on the camaro. If thats what youre talking about there are probably going to be tons of customized camaros with different configurations. NA, Super charged. Some with Lower gears, others with whatever. If thats what youre talking about, Im sure the OEM parts will be available for do it yourself will be there with no consistant theme.

If youre talking about aftermarket shops workarounds that would be a little better. Shelby I think has done that in the past with the Shelby Mustangs. The cars I think were technically Shelbys and he wasnt bound by the same constraints that Ford were. Im not sure about the SLP with the SS cars or even the GMMP ZL1 cars. I am sure those cars will crop up in the way of Saleen, Roush, and the like. Maybe its time to bring back the Central Office Production Order :D

I do not think badging should EVER be an option on a model. Either it is or it isnt. A Z28 should be defined inhouse or outside or it isnt a Z28 period. They should be badged without execption. Same with any ZL1 or 1LE or any other model for that matter. I think the worst thing that could happen is a model to come out like the previous ZL1 or 1LE and people argue that there doesnt need to be a new version because technically the unbadged 5th gen Z28 was not badged and therfore is not a model... Think about this. If you buy a Z28 and you debadge it you have a debadged Z28 that still has the value of a Z28 factory car. If you buy a Z28 LIKE car without badging or you modify a 5th gen to what you think one should be, and you decide to put a badge on later, youve just put graphics on a modified/customized car. There is a HUGE difference. One is a factory Z28 new car that is a recognized model with that value/ resale value. The other is a new car you modified yourself say from an SS that is no model and just lost resale value lower than an SS to boot. Also you just possibly voided your warrenty.

I have to agree with this. I would want a Z28 from the factory, not no aftermarket mumbo jumbo. That is what I want...no SS first crap...Only one can be a Z/28.:yes:

Something that has been bothering me is that why are so many people bent on having a supercharged Z/28?

The Z/28 in its history has never been a large cubic inch Camaro let alone having forced induction. The first gen Z/28 had a 302 and the second gen had a 350. They were more of a handling package with a high compression V8.

Really what I would have liked to see was that instead of the SS version of the fifth gen that they would replace those SS badges with a Z/28. Then later come along with the SS supercharged version if the demand and business case is there.

I just got my MotorTrend in the mail today, and what was on the cover? None other than the Z/28. It does exist, and it's in the works at some level. I'd guess we can expect to see it in concept or preproduction 1-2 years from now, should the new Camaro sell like hotcakes.

But don't take my word for it, see for yourself:
http://www.motortrend.com/features/auto_news/2009/112_0904_chevrolet_camaro_z28_returns/index.html

No one said there isn't a plan for a Z28.

I'll bet on a supercharged V6 for the Z28

Then I'll bet the BLACK edition makes it out as a limited production LS9 Supercar.

I,d look into something like a factory/aftermarket s/c kit for the v6 and the Z28 could get a mid level v8 like the 5.3/or become more handling oriented and become more like the 67-69 Z28 option wise(lighter weight,less options that don,t help performance).:)

I,d look into something like a factory/aftermarket s/c kit for the v6 and the Z28 could get a mid level v8 like the 5.3/or become more handling oriented and become more like the 67-69 Z28 option wise(lighter weight,less options that don,t help performance).:)

Well I had a similar idea posted on this thread until I got my magazine:

What if (when GM gets back on it's feet) made a new 5.0L LS series engine, and made it real nasty despite it's size like the original 302? (My guess would be if they were doing it this way they'd give it DI or a supercharger) Then they would have to somehow cut a bunch of weight out of the 5th gen, maybe to the point where the weight approaches the 4th gens. Then give it a real hot suspension/wheel/tire etc. package.

I mean it's not what they're going to do, but you know it would be cool as hell. And personally something along those lines would have been a lot more creative than repackaging the CTS-V, even though I know the Z/28 Chevy already put together is going to rock. But that's just my humble opinion, I'm happy with my 'maro.

I dunno, the Z28 was never about raw power like it's turning into. Originally it was a smaller displacement engine limited by the qualifiactions for the trans-am series, with a real road handling package. Now its a fatty with monstrous power... wasn't that suppose to be the SS? I think I agree with the guy that said S/C v6. A mild lower displacement engine, i.e. less weight, and a killer suspension/wheel/tire combo with less factory options more with a 1LE-like option code *Shrug* That would be a "real" Z/28 in my eyes. Or make what they're calling the Z/28 an IROC-Z :P Bigger engine with everything the Z got and a different front bumper and gdfx haha

all im saying is if they put motor trend had the z28 with the charger written up they were talking about 638hp.. haha whats ford gonna do now.. that will absolutly murder the shelby.. if the new camaro ss already doesnt alone

I still think a Z28 designation could be used the same way the 1LE was used on the 4th gens. Ditch most of the optional stuff, and better suspension gear/tuning. That is, in essence, what the Z28 designation originally was. Make the supercharged top car a ZL1 or something.

What I find is funny is that Gm can make a Z/28, with the LSA, and have it handle better and outperform the SS as well as any other Z/28 ever made and "the afficianados" would still complain about it.

FWIW, the Z/28 only met this "elite" criteria for only a small fraction of its life cycle. It's alot like saying that Cobra's should only come with a blower even though it's had one for 2 of its 11 year existence.

Back to OP, I would be all for a warranty-able supercharger kit for the SS just as FRPP does for the Mustang.

I think the Z28 should be more analogous to the C5 Z06 insofar as it has a refined NA motor, and more focused chassis, suspension, etc without getting dedicated chassis or handbuilt ultraexpensive motors.

[QUOTE=Nightshade;5860883]

[What if (when GM gets back on it's feet) made a new 5.0L LS series engine, and ][made it real nasty despite it's size like the original 302? (My guess would be if they ][were doing it this way they'd give it DI or a supercharger) Then they would have to][somehow cut a bunch of weight out of the 5th gen, maybe to the point where the ][weight approaches the 4th gens. Then give it a real hot suspension/wheel/tire etc.] [package.

AMEN brother!!! ....... and a "i seccond the motion"
and yes, the top-dawg s/c supercar should be a ZL1...

But probly doesn't matter anyway.

I sure do hope they drop the z/28 so im not sittin here waiting for nothing! But i do feel they should drop something that can put any level ford to shame because thats the problem gm's been having for some time now in my opinion is lack of competitiveness. They lost that when they started making classic musclecars like the monte carlo v6's instead of the cars theyre historical backgrounds intended them to be. I say make options available regardless what level or model of the car your planning to buy but a model should only be considered a model and badges should only be granted for a model directly from the manufacturer. My question is if you buy an ls9 from the manufacturer and have it installed prior shipment do they add the price of it into the original price of the car and if so then doesnt that mean you should get the original engine as well since you technically paid for it? Wouldnt mind getting an ss with the optional ls9 and then having the ls99 on the stand ready for modifications!! But lets all keep our fingers krossed that the z/28 does drop because domestics as a whole need to stay competitive and chevy needs to hold its crown down!

i would be all over an optional supercharger through gmpp that was covered under the factory warranty.

all im saying is if they put motor trend had the z28 with the charger written up they were talking about 638hp.. haha whats ford gonna do now.. that will absolutly murder the shelby.. if the new camaro ss already doesnt alone

Add another 100hp to the GT500 - its really just that easy, the 07-09 cars had a 100hp upgrade with a warranty if the regular 500hp wasn't enough.

Add another 100hp to the GT500 - its really just that easy, the 07-09 cars had a 100hp upgrade with a warranty if the regular 500hp wasn't enough.

Can you link it?

I know it is easy in the aftermarket to get that kind of power, but a 100hp upgrade is going to be a new hurting on a factory car. I know how overbuilt the Mustang is supposed to be, and I know there were some GT500 spin offs, but that seems really careless to me. The GT500KR didn't have a warranty.

Can you link it?

I know it is easy in the aftermarket to get that kind of power, but a 100hp upgrade is going to be a new hurting on a factory car. I know how overbuilt the Mustang is supposed to be, and I know there were some GT500 spin offs, but that seems really careless to me. The GT500KR didn't have a warranty.

Yeah, let me dig it up - http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=9887

The warranty info is actually in the catalog, but I C&P'd it below. IIRC the KRs came with a warranty until you exceeded the 105hp kit, after that you were on your own since they could be had up to 725hp.

Performance Packs (M-FR1-MGT, M-2005-FR1, M-5251-R, M-2005-FR1A, M-2006-FR1, M-2007-FR1V6, M-2007-FR1SVT, M-7210-T1, M-7210-V, M-7210-B, M-9603-GTB, M-9603-GT05, M-9603-GT05A, M-9603-GT06, M-9603-V605, M-9603-SVT07 and M-2005-FR3, M-2007-FR3V6, M-2007-FR3SVT, M-5230-V6) found to be defective in factory-supplied material or workmanship for 3 years/36,000 miles (whichever occurs first) when installed on a new vehicle at the time of vehicle sale or 12 months/12,000 miles (whichever occurs first) when installed after the date of vehicle sale but prior to the expiration of the 3-year/36,000-mile coverage (whichever occurs first) under the New Vehicle Limited Warranty.

Performance Pack Registration – This limited warranty requires that parts must be purchased from an authorized Ford Racing Dealer and installed by a Ford, Lincoln or Mercury Dealer, or Shelby Automotive, Inc. Proof of purchase may be required for submission of warranty claims. Registration for this warranty must be submitted by a Ford, Lincoln or Mercury Dealer, or Shelby Automotive, Inc. through the Ford Performance Call Center (800) 367-3788 with P&A Code, the vehicle identificationnumber (VIN), part installation repair order and date, Ford Racing part number and owner information.

Performance Packs (FR1 only) Note: Customers who purchase FR1 kits are required to use 91 or higher octane fuels at all times. Any failures associated with the non-use of premium 91 octane fuel will be ineligible for warranty repair.

Performance Packs (FR3) Note: The FR3 performance handling application is designed for “Track Day” limit ride and handling. Such performance standards suggest vehicle ride will be more indicative of race performance vehicles. Vehicle conditions including,but not limited to, squeaks, rattles and harsh ride are not subject to warranty repair.The FR3 Handling Pack requires the use of original equipment size wheels only. Thisperformance handling application should be expected to accelerate tire wear. Prematuretire degradation is not subject to warranty consideration. The front end alignment must be checked and adjusted as necessary after installation. Contact the Ford Performance Call Center (800) 367-3788 for front end alignment information.

Warranty Start Date – This limited warranty begins upon dealer installation and registration by the dealer of the Ford Racing Performance Pack(s) with Ford Racing and ends at either 3 years/36,000 miles (whichever occurs first) when installed on a new vehicle at the time of vehicle sale or 12 months/12,000 miles (whichever occurs first) for all installations occurring after the date of vehicle sale but prior to the expiration of the 3-year/36,000-mile coverage (whichever occurs first) under the New Vehicle Limited Warranty.

--->edit<----
Unrelated, but the dealer I had purchased my 07 GT from has a KR on the lot still and is discounting it to the MSRP - LMAO - unfoturnately they only list it as a regular GT500 with a price of 82k before discount on the email I got.

My understanding is that GM is not going to produce the Z28 at all. I think I read it in one of the business papers and it was quoted from a spokeshead type from GM. No supercharger and no 500+ hp engine. Believe it was because they didn't want to compete against the Corvette and now they are going through bankruptcy this was not a feasible time to even think about launching a super high horsepower car. They didn't rule it out for the future though but now through 2012 it isn't going to happen along with the convertible Camaro.

i think they already said the convertable is coming but not til 2011. as far as a z28, it will come out and it doesnt matter if it beats the vette because there are still 2 other version of vette that are above the "z28". have you ever heard of the cts-v? it beats the vette and its a sedan. the approach you are looking at is the way chevy USED to be with the camaro. now its a whole new ball game.

--->edit<----
Unrelated, but the dealer I had purchased my 07 GT from has a KR on the lot still and is discounting it to the MSRP - LMAO - unfoturnately they only list it as a regular GT500 with a price of 82k before discount on the email I got.


Thats funny. The impression I get from that is the car is really a regular GT500 with dealer bought stuff slapped on to make it KR comperable. Meaning for the car to be a true KR, wouldnt Carroll Shelby's shop have to register it as one, or at least give Ford permission to use the name to put on the title?

Otherwise isnt it just a modified car, which would make it worth less than not more? Not trying to derail the thread but that made me curious.

Otherwise isnt it just a modified car, which would make it worth less than not more? Not trying to derail the thread but that made me curious.

Its a real deal KR, I went and checked it out, but whoever did the email flyer didn't list it as such so it just showed up as another GT500 with an asinine ADM on it way late in the game.

i think they already said the convertable is coming but not til 2011. as far as a z28, it will come out and it doesnt matter if it beats the vette because there are still 2 other version of vette that are above the "z28". have you ever heard of the cts-v? it beats the vette and its a sedan. the approach you are looking at is the way chevy USED to be with the camaro. now its a whole new ball game.

Well that's certainly good news. Thought I grabbed a white paper a month or so ago but am obviously mistaken. Thanks for keeping me straight. I hope that whole new ball game involves getting the "kids" in the seat of these great cars and continues the tradition of American muscle car greatness. Part of the reason I believe some of that old thinking is still around is based on their decision to de-tune the 6.2L manual to marginally less HP than the exact same motor found in the corvette. If i can find the info on the convertible I'll post it straight away.

Z/28 should be a smaller displacement like a 5.3 with direct injection....IMHO
Its always been about small displacement, light weight, and great handling.

That being said, I would still go for the package with the biggest engine. But an 8000 RPM DI 5.3 would be real fun to drive and sound real nasty...the 3.6L DI V6 is real fun to drive with the stick....aahh but the 6.2 is still much more fun...

a DI 5.3 and a 6.2 would probably put out the same hp. it would be a much better idea to DI the 6.2 which is the best motor chevy(gm) has going for them.

That being said, I would still go for the package with the biggest engine. But an 8000 RPM DI 5.3 would be real fun to drive and sound real nasty

Not gonna get that without going to a OHC valvetrain in a production engine. The LS7 is probably the high point for OHV engine speed from the factory.

Just took delivery on TH. Felt like i just got a brand new baby boy! Any how. I was talking to the fellas at the dealership and they were saying that prices are more than likely going to go up next year and that the Z28 is more than likely not going to happen. I know they aren't probably the end all be all of info but it makes you wonder.

Just took delivery on TH. Felt like i just got a brand new baby boy! Any how. I was talking to the fellas at the dealership and they were saying that prices are more than likely going to go up next year and that the Z28 is more than likely not going to happen. I know they aren't probably the end all be all of info but it makes you wonder.

I doubt both of those things. Congrats! What do you think of the car? Performance? overall?

I doubt both of those things. Congrats! What do you think of the car? Performance? overall?

Looks are unequaled. All the Vette Fan Boys can't keep their eyes off. Might be the newness but it just turns hears, a lot of heads. Performance is surprisingly strong. The car just wants to scream. Not a lot of tire spinning as the traction improvements = faster 0-60. It just runs and runs great. The details are really where the icing hits the top of the cake. The ambient lit door look hot at night and my choice of seat color really turned out, went with the beige interior. Everything about the car is unique. I'm new to Onstar and XFM but find both really cool. The USB radio is very simple and a strong feature. Heard of problems last year but they must have fixed it. The lights, wow, the lights! You have to get the RS. Those lights are hot. This is the best car I have ever owned. Had an old vette and a bunch of others in the past but this is my first camaro and has me sold.