NEWS: Lutz Interview: Camaro began as "pure concept", mum on Z28

It’s hard to interview General Motors Vice Chairman Bob Lutz without at least mentioning the Chevrolet Camaro. The car represents a huge investment for the automaker, and more recently a point of some controversy. In an exclusive interview with Leftlane, we asked Mr. Lutz about the Camaro’s journey from concept to production, timing of the [...]

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".....you are going to have cars that the public desperately wants and you’re going to have to say to the public, ‘I’m sorry, I can’t give you one of those."


That doesn't give me a "warm fuzzy" at all. :no:

Take note of the comment from Lutz...

“But that’s the point we’ve always been making, that with fuel economy mandates without a concomitant increase in gasoline prices, you are going to have cars that the public desperately wants and you’re going to have to say to the public, ‘I’m sorry, I can’t give you one of those.’”

You certainly HAVE to read the entire interview to capture MaxBob's verbal intent. I couldn't make heads or tails of the snippet, but I get him on the full read. It's about CAFE, not Z28s.

No Z/28, then I'm not interested.

I know the Z28 name carries a lot of heritage, but I don't understand the "either I get a Z28 to be the happiest person in the world or I'm not getting a Camaro at all" mentality. Get an SS, upgrade the suspension, and buy your own supercharger. You'll probably spend less than what the Z28 would have cost.

Lutz said: "discourage the sale of large powerful V8s"

That's some scary stuff right there. :(

Bob

I know the Z28 name carries a lot of heritage, but I don't understand the "either I get a Z28 to be the happiest person in the world or I'm not getting a Camaro at all" mentality. Get an SS, upgrade the suspension, and buy your own supercharger. You'll probably spend less than what the Z28 would have cost.

Putting a supercharger on a factory n/a engine is a long way from buying a factory s/c engine. I'm not sure what people don't get about that. Same for the suspension. I'm not buying a new car just to make a hack hot rod out of it. I'll buy something else with 500-550hp, since there are a fair amount of choices now...

What really, really makes me laugh is that the LS3 six speed is the MOST POWERFUL Camaro ever offered in the history of the car. It's got bigger brakes, better suspension, more tire on the ground... Yet people still complain.

Get this through your whiny, rock hard heads... The market for a 500+ HP supercharged V8 is just too damn small to mess with right now. The Camaro has to hit the ground running with affordable models to be a success. I'm happy there *is* a fifth gen Camaro. You can bet your bottom dollar I'll be buying one in about 2 years when my truck payment is done. More than likely a six speed 422 horse model.

Keep in mind that the 422 horse LS3 car is *just* as powerful as the premium, top of the line Challenger. It's also lighter. The Challenger RT is 390 horse. None of the mustangs currently offered are close unless you're talking the supercharged models, and then you're in the 50k+ range.

If your outlook is "No Z-28, no Camaro" then you need your head examined.

I am still hoping that by taking a look at what the market wants and gas prices and all this and that, they come up with a Camaro 150-250lbs lighter, with an even better suspension and if anything 435hp. It would probably get better mileage, handle better, and would be my perfect Z/28 from the factory....

Save ridiculous 500hp supercharged motors for the Mustang, I'd rather have a car that can handle and not pay a gas guzzler tax to do so..

I agree with what Bishop is saying. I know that a lot of people are frustrated about there being no Z/28 right off the bat. I'm one of them. But I for one was totally against a s/c Z/28 because in my mind, I did't feel like that's what the Z/28 is. I don't want to get off track, so that's another topic for another thread. I'm just happy that I have the option to buy a new 2010 Camaro. If there's no Z/28, well I'll upgrade the motor and suspension on an SS when I'm ready to buy. Lets just be glad that we all will have the opportunity to buy a new Camaro in the very near future and that GM is putting a lot of effort into getting this car right.

What really, really makes me laugh is that the LS3 six speed is the MOST POWERFUL Camaro ever offered in the history of the car. It's got bigger brakes, better suspension, more tire on the ground... Yet people still complain.

Get this through your whiny, rock hard heads... The market for a 500+ HP supercharged V8 is just too damn small to mess with right now. The Camaro has to hit the ground running with affordable models to be a success. I'm happy there *is* a fifth gen Camaro. You can bet your bottom dollar I'll be buying one in about 2 years when my truck payment is done. More than likely a six speed 422 horse model.

Keep in mind that the 422 horse LS3 car is *just* as powerful as the premium, top of the line Challenger. It's also lighter. The Challenger RT is 390 horse. None of the mustangs currently offered are close unless you're talking the supercharged models, and then you're in the 50k+ range.

If your outlook is "No Z-28, no Camaro" then you need your head examined.

Im impressed with both the LS3 and the 5th gen, Im happy with the V6 comming from Caddy and being a serious powerplant but thats not for me. what I like most is that video that showed the near 500 hp LS3 with just a cam swap.

I cant imagine no Z28. The meat and potatoes are already there. Swap for Lighter somewhat exotic parts, bump in power or not. The biggest part would be lightening up the car at a higher price point and that doesnt take away gas milege. Of course I could be wrong.

Lutz said: "discourage the sale of large powerful V8s"

That's some scary stuff right there. :(

Bob



Yes -- it is...........and he's referring to government mandated CAFE standards.

The U.S.Government is passing laws that tell you what you can drive. Rather than allow the free market to determine what will be built and sold, they'll mandate it.

If this upsets you (and personally, I think it should) you need to write to every lawmaker you can find.............

Aww man!!!

I might just purchase the SS then...Even though I was going to lease it and wait for the now almost impossible to have 2011 Z28.

Putting a supercharger on a factory n/a engine is a long way from buying a factory s/c engine. I'm not sure what people don't get about that. Same for the suspension. I'm not buying a new car just to make a hack hot rod out of it. I'll buy something else with 500-550hp, since there are a fair amount of choices now...

blackflag gets it :thumb:.

It's not about (at least to me) the name "Z28". What it IS about is 500hp+....the closer to 556hp, the better. Like I said in another post, they can call it a Berlinetta for all I care. I'd STILL want it.

I have no interest in modding the hell (and destroying the warranty) out of a brand new car to get the power I want. I want something that will shove me back in the seat, and put a huge grin on my face, and make the person in the passenger seat say "holy sh!t" when I hammer it.....all the while still under factory warranty. Why? .........Why not?

I absolutely LOVE the looks of the 5th Gen. I have no problem taking a "step down" in handling from my C5 Z06 to the 5th Gen. But If I can't get AT LEAST the same (and hopefully MORE) acceleration from that 5th Gen as my Z06, then I'm not interested. I'll take the same amount of money that "bad-@ss & blown" Camaro would have cost me and either get a used C6 Z06 or a new C6 (or C7?) in a few years. If I end up having to go the Vette route I'll be trying to convince my wife she "needs" a 5th Gen for her next new car:D.

ya, they overreached on this. i mean, the patriot act and the rights that tramples on is bad, but when they start raising fuel standards, thats where I draw the line!!

Any chance of GM having a aftermarket supercharger they sell that installed would still retain the warranty?

If your outlook is "No Z-28, no Camaro" then you need your head examined.

My wife says the same thing. :)

No sense comparing to the Camaro's from 10 yrs. ago. That's history. Today - what I like to call "the golden age" - you can by a bone stock car with 550hp. How can you pass that up? Maybe Z06 is the way to go...but I have to drive the CTS-V.

But a 430hp, 3800lb Camaro doesn't cut the mustard anymore. That much is sure.

Hey, maybe the way to go is to buy a used Camaro 6 yrs from now...and drop in an LS7. But I sure as hell ain't buying a brand new car just to hot rod it. That's silly.

I read it as they are going to try to make the V6 an awesome car, so much so that the majority of buyers will go that route and it will help offset the (CAFE) impact of the V8s. That said, I'd expect to see fairly aggressive pricing and packaging on the V6, in particular, the RS.

What really, really makes me laugh is that the LS3 six speed is the MOST POWERFUL Camaro ever offered in the history of the car. It's got bigger brakes, better suspension, more tire on the ground... Yet people still complain.

Get this through your whiny, rock hard heads... The market for a 500+ HP supercharged V8 is just too damn small to mess with right now. The Camaro has to hit the ground running with affordable models to be a success. I'm happy there *is* a fifth gen Camaro. You can bet your bottom dollar I'll be buying one in about 2 years when my truck payment is done. More than likely a six speed 422 horse model.

Keep in mind that the 422 horse LS3 car is *just* as powerful as the premium, top of the line Challenger. It's also lighter. The Challenger RT is 390 horse. None of the mustangs currently offered are close unless you're talking the supercharged models, and then you're in the 50k+ range.

If your outlook is "No Z-28, no Camaro" then you need your head examined.

Funny you don't mention the Camaro's true competition - the Mustang. Wonder why...

ya, they overreached on this. i mean, the patriot act and the rights that tramples on is bad, but when they start raising fuel standards, thats where I draw the line!!

There is no difference. Except for the fact that one was to help keep you safe and the other is to help keep the greens happy.

Putting a supercharger on a factory n/a engine is a long way from buying a factory s/c engine. I'm not sure what people don't get about that. Same for the suspension. I'm not buying a new car just to make a hack hot rod out of it. I'll buy something else with 500-550hp, since there are a fair amount of choices now...

Excellent post! Im not keen on the idea of buying a brand new car and playing blacksmith as if I just pulled it out of the woods...

Yes -- it is...........and he's referring to government mandated CAFE standards.

The U.S.Government is passing laws that tell you what you can drive. Rather than allow the free market to determine what will be built and sold, they'll mandate it.

If this upsets you (and personally, I think it should) you need to write to every lawmaker you can find.............

Well put Scott! Its discouraging though. How do you tell or word something like that to the Government who feels the Current CAFE was a compromise of the least MPG they can get. Theres no consolidated effort or petition to sign is there? Im not complaining just asking.

There is no difference. Except for the fact that one was to help keep you safe and the other is to help keep the greens happy.

LMAO at "designed to keep you safe" what a joke. In that case, CAFE is designed to keep you safe from inhaling fumes of gas guzzling cars...........

I read it as they are going to try to make the V6 an awesome car, so much so that the majority of buyers will go that route and it will help offset the (CAFE) impact of the V8s. That said, I'd expect to see fairly aggressive pricing and packaging on the V6, in particular, the RS.

but if there's gonna be THAT many more V6's sold vs. the V8 version, then that means the V8 versions might be limited in availability (ex$pen$ive) if they sell a ton of V8 cars then the V6 sales needed to really offset the CAFE impact might be unrealistically high.

all they need to do with the z28 is make it like the 1le.. Koni all around... better sway bars and lighten the car for gods sake... THat is it... I don't care about the 556hp! i care about the weight. Mods will ALWAYS come to the car, so in the end... They might as well change the camshaft and bring the rating of the car up with lower weight. Leave it to the aftermarket to do such wonders.

Heck.. Give me a 7L with a small enough camshaft that doesn't pay gas guzzler tax and I will definitely do wonders to it, yada yada yada.

Anyways... one more thing to get hopes up... Scott post it... and he referred to as "he was talking about CAFE" so NOT about the z28. I just hope that the z28 comes and I will hold myself. I don't want to buy a car that I will ahve to sell to get the z28. So I will wait probably a year or so after the maro is out.

I bought a brand new Trans Am in 1986. It had the Tuned Port 305 in it. The top of the line engine for that year. I spent the next 9 years getting my ass handed to me by every Mustang 5.0 owner within a 500 mile radius of my house. I said, NEVER AGAIN, sold it and bought a 1995 Z28 6 speed, and paid back the favor for the next 10 years.

I will not buy a 2010 Camaro SS and spend the next 9 years getting my ass handed to me by every guy in a Mustang GT500. That is why I want a Supercharged LSA Camaro with 556hp. Because the competition has a 500hp vertion of THEIR car. If GM can't offer it, then I will buy the Mustang, or a used Z06.

but if there's gonna be THAT many more V6's sold vs. the V8 version, then that means the V8 versions might be limited in availability (ex$pen$ive) if they sell a ton of V8 cars then the V6 sales needed to really offset the CAFE impact might be unrealistically high.Have you ever looked at 4th gen sales figures? :p

I will not buy a 2010 Camaro SS and spend the next 9 years getting my ass handed to me by every guy in a Mustang GT500. That is why I want a Supercharged LSA Camaro with 556hp. Because the competition has a 500hp vertion of THEIR car. If GM can't offer it, then I will buy the Mustang, or a used Z06.

Word.

....eh, i don't see the big deal with HAVING to get a Z28. I've only ever seen 2 GT500's ever.

I bought a brand new Trans Am in 1986. It had the Tuned Port 305 in it. The top of the line engine for that year. I spent the next 9 years getting my ass handed to me by every Mustang 5.0 owner within a 500 mile radius of my house. I said, NEVER AGAIN, sold it and bought a 1995 Z28 6 speed, and paid back the favor for the next 10 years.

I will not buy a 2010 Camaro SS and spend the next 9 years getting my ass handed to me by every guy in a Mustang GT500. That is why I want a Supercharged LSA Camaro with 556hp. Because the competition has a 500hp vertion of THEIR car. If GM can't offer it, then I will buy the Mustang, or a used Z06.

Fighting an uphill battle......if you're concerned with being the fastest around, don't buy another new car, theres always something better and faster coming out the day after you make your first payment. A lot more fun throwing a motor in an older car than bragging about how fast your new factory car is anyway. And most importantly, a hell of a lot cheaper.

After reading the whole interview (Part 1 anyway), I'm sure Lutz is talking about CAFE standards and not a Z/28. GM will turn away more people who want SUV's and trucks than people who want Z/28's. You think Lutz is going put the enthusiast market before that of the average buyer?

That being said, I still think the business case for the Z/28 is stronger now that one year ago. There are people that I know who want an SUV, but don't want "just another car". I think those people will find their way to distinctive cars like the Camaro, and that means more demand for a Z/28.

....eh, i don't see the big deal with HAVING to get a Z28. I've only ever seen 2 GT500's ever.

Dude we'd be a hell of a race from a roll...:yes:

I'm in San Jose too...in a place where Ferrari's and Lambo's can be seen at will, i've seen 1 GT500 on the road...ONE.


Lightened up, better suspension and a Z/28 look...thats all, keep it simple and sell the damn thing!

....eh, i don't see the big deal with HAVING to get a Z28. I've only ever seen 2 GT500's ever.

I'm in the bay area, and I've seen at least a half dozen on the road...maybe you're just not distinguishing them from regular mustangs.

I'm in the bay area, and I've seen at least a half dozen on the road...maybe you're just not distinguishing them from regular mustangs.

they are fairly easy to distinguish, i just think the majority of owners fail to just drive the tanks.

I'm in San Jose too...in a place where Ferrari's and Lambo's can be seen at will, i've seen 1 GT500 on the road...ONE.


serious. maybe it's just san jose. it seems like i see more C6 Z06's than just regular C6's around here.

Dude we'd be a hell of a race from a roll...:yes:

I'm in San Jose too...in a place where Ferrari's and Lambo's can be seen at will, i've seen 1 GT500 on the road...ONE.


Lightened up, better suspension and a Z/28 look...thats all, keep it simple and sell the damn thing!

we should do a three way race that might be fun,but im not too big on street racing.......also ive only seen 1 or 2 GT500 also. C6 Z06's are everywhere though

they are fairly easy to distinguish, i just think the majority of owners fail to just drive the tanks.

Have you guys seen a Challenger on the road? Maybe you guys just don't get out much... no offense. Ha ha.

i seen one challenger a few weeks ago. and im on the road EVERYDAY. LOL @ people thinking every V6 mustang with stripes is a GT500

Have you guys seen a Challenger on the road? Maybe you guys just don't get out much... no offense. Ha ha.

I drive across town just about every other day and i haven't seen any out yet. and san jose isn't exactly small, it is the 10th largest city in the country.

I drive across town just about every other day and i haven't seen any out yet. and san jose isn't exactly small, it is the 10th largest city in the country.

But it is kind of scuzzy... ha ha. No offense - again.

I have seen one new Challenger. I have to admit...it looks really nice out on the road. I wish it weren't such a pig. I plan to take one for a drive once I can find one at a dealership.

......... I wish it weren't such a pig. I plan to take one for a drive once I can find one at a dealership.

so its confirmed, a 5th gen + one passenger = pig?

....eh, i don't see the big deal with HAVING to get a Z28. I've only ever seen 2 GT500's ever.

Ive seen a few from when I was living in Southern MD. Seen a couple on the 495 DC beltway on my way to work. Ironically since Ive been in Annapolis last year Ive seen new Ferraris, M3's, and 911's one AC Cobra one Z06 but no GT 500s. Point is Ive seen a few GT500s and they turn my head. My cousin just bought a new Z06. I love those.

so its confirmed, a 5th gen + one passenger = pig?

Does that add up to 4100 lbs?

"Scuzzy"?? i don't know where in the bay area your located, but it can't be menlo park, san francisco, san mateo, santa cruz, oakland, burlingame, palo alto, redwood city, sunnyvale, milpitas, alviso, dublin, livermore, gilroy, ****, pretty much the whole bay area could use the word "scuzzy" describe it before San Jose. or is that your way of dancing around the fact of the large hispanic population here? Unless your some elitist who's overpaying even more or living in the boonies out in the middle of nowhere, i don't see how you can even use that word. scuzzy? do yourself a favor and never go to a big city with real grime, you might **** yourself.

please.

Oh, boy...looks like I hit a nerve...ha ha. Come on. You can't say that San Jose is as clean as...say...Palo Alto, Pleasanton, Walnut Creek, Tiburon...please. Come on. San Jose reminds me of Daly City. And I hate Daly City.

(And I have lived in some grimy cities...ha.)

Does that add up to 4100 lbs?

yup

Oh, boy...looks like I hit a nerve...ha ha. Come on. You can't say that San Jose is as clean as...say...Palo Alto, Pleasanton, Walnut Creek, Tiburon...please. Come on. San Jose reminds me of Daly City. And I hate Daly City.

(And I have lived in some grimy cities...ha.)

i CAN say san jose is that clean. Ever been to the blossom hill area or evergreen area? those communities are even bigger than those small towns u just listed. The towns on your list are as big as a few city blocks. Pleasanton cant count for anything its out in the boonies. SJ has almost a MILLION residents of course the WHOLE city isnt gonna look perfect. I have noticed that the cities youve listed have a low minority population/demographic i sense you have deeper rooted issues with diversity, is that what youre scared of?. Dont be scared of san jose, its one of the safest large cities in the country and it has been for years. Lots of nice houses/areas/communities and overall a great city, but no GT500's. There just arent very many people out driving around in their GT500's because we have "scuzzy residents"? but for some reason C6 Z06's arent out of their range,or other exotic cars.

I don't understand people who say " I won't buy a Camaro because it isn't a Z-28"... Sersiouly, had Chev put Z-28 on the SS and still have the exact same car, you'd probably have been all over it, simply because of 3 digits...

Honestly I'm glad they stopped at the SS. It's cheaper and the LS3 has so many bolt on upgrades that it's pointless to cry over. Just an extra 4000$ will give the LS3 roughly 540hp and 530 lb.ft.

The SS already come with 20" wheels, 14" brembo brakes, leather seats... It comes with everything, hell you can even get a hurst short-throw shifter on it! Other than stock 500 hp and the Z-28 badge, what else could you possibly want that the SS won't have???

Anyways, I couldn't care less if you don't buy a Camaro because it isn't a Z-28. The SS will be all that much more unique for me since there won't be as many on the road.

we should do a three way race that might be fun,but im not too big on street racing.......also ive only seen 1 or 2 GT500 also. C6 Z06's are everywhere though

When my SS was bone stock i raced a white Galaxie 500 on san tomas...a 64 or 65 maybe, older guy...He stayed on my door to 130, car was no joke for how massive it was! Had a 428 Cobra Jet in it. Whats your car run do ya know?

But it is kind of scuzzy... ha ha. No offense - again.

I have seen one new Challenger. I have to admit...it looks really nice out on the road. I wish it weren't such a pig. I plan to take one for a drive once I can find one at a dealership.


Most of west, south, and north SJ are really nice...downtown looks like most 'downtowns' and even parts of east SJ are beautiful. As mentioned, it does pretty well for having 1 million people.

And i've actually already seen more(2)Challengers than the 1 GT500...this between a million Vettes, brand new looking C5's...C6 Z06's, 911 turbos, Murcielago's, Ford GT's...Vipers...hmmm you name it, must be some real scuzzy millionaires here, think there just visiting, everyday?

I don't understand people who say " I won't buy a Camaro because it isn't a Z-28"... Sersiouly, had Chev put Z-28 on the SS and still have the exact same car, you'd probably have been all over it, simply because of 3 digits....
You mean like how some people drool over the car no matter how much it weighs, how much history was forgotten, or how well if performs stock vs. stock against the Mustang - simply because Chevy put Camaro on it?


... what else could you possibly want that the SS won't have???
Light weight, SLA front suspension, a car that's faster then an equivilent Mustang...

I think some of the folks in this thread are on the wrong board... :lol:

I think some of the folks in this thread are on the wrong board... :lol:


no....some are late for their psychology counseling session....give it time..chevy will have a Z/28 unless they just want to let mustang run away with the market..with GM and the brain drain going on the latter may be correct

When my SS was bone stock i raced a white Galaxie 500 on san tomas...a 64 or 65 maybe, older guy...He stayed on my door to 130, car was no joke for how massive it was! Had a 428 Cobra Jet in it. Whats your car run do ya know?

not sure what my car runs yet, i only have about 120miles on this combo and need to tune the carb but should be putting out at least 650HP although i have seen as high as 700+ with similar combos. With the massive drivetrain losses of the C6+ 9in. rear im aiming for 500+RWHP @around 4000lbs. coould be pretty fast (114MPH traps), could be REALLY fast (125?), i honestly dont know yet.