Hate Retro Cars, Love Camaro

I have to say that I hate Mustang and Challangers because they are simply copies of cars of the old days. My initial response to the Camaro concept was oh no not another retro car. The more I examined the car and compared it with my 69 Camaro the more I realized that the designers did an amazing job of designing a car that is a unique blend of modern with styling cues from the old days. Watching the show saving GM they showed an intial design of the Camaro concept that was essentially a 68 Camaro and Ed Wellburn sent them back to the drawing board. Thanks ED. I will buy the Camaro because it does remind me of my first car and first love, my 69 Camaro but I will love this car for the courageous design of taking the best of old styling and blending it with a modern design that just looks fantastic.

couldnt agree more.. so glad they didnt go the way Dodge went and make it a carbon copy

Fellas, denial isn't just a river in Egypt. :o:bang::no:


If you like the styling of the car, great, but don't delude yourself into thinking it is any less retro than the Mustang or the Challenger.

Don't even get me started on the bizarre interior....:think::shock:

Guys, I like the CAMARO as much as anyone, but it IS retro. Maybe not a complete copy (for that matter neither are the Mustang or Challenger) but it is retro. Lets get real here.

Fellas, denial isn't just a river in Egypt.As long as we are using cheesy cliches... opinions are like buttholes, everyone has got one and most of them stink.
I think the Camaro is the perfect balance of a modern design and retro style. Mustang throws retro cues at the car arbitrarily, Challenger is a very retro outside with a completely unrelated modern interior. The Camaro team did a great job of keeping the theme through-out the car.

If you watch the saving GM show you will see what they had originally planned which was a carbon copy of the 68 Camaro. If you see the new Challanger next to the old Challanger you will see that the cars are essentially the same with minor tweeks. The Mustang is less so but things such as taillights are a great example of simply too retro for me. I think the Camaro is an interesting blend of both retro and modern design. Clearly if they were to start from scratch they would not have come up with a large open grill but beyond that most of the styling looks appropriate for a modern car. When you get to the rear of the car they could have sold out an duplicated the 69 rear end with similar taillights, backup lights and shaping. In stead they did some nice blending of concepts.

On the interior at least they didn't just take stuff from other cars or trucks and throw it into the interior of this car. Most of the Mustang interior and 100% of the center stack comes from my Ford F-150. The Challanger is much the same and the interior is a real let down. Having said that both of those cars will sell just fine.

I think the Camaro is more sustainable because it is a car that when compared to a car like the G37 it is still very cool. Of course I am bias because of my passion for the 69 and as a former owner of a 94 Z-28.

Raven99, Actually the name of the river is Nile not denial, our education system has really let these kids down. Yes, I will supersize my number 1 thanks.

...Lets get real here.

+1 :yes:

oh of course it's retro.. but lets get real here.... you cant deny that there is a futuristic look to the car as well.. retro isnt black and white.. one car can be more retro than another.. i'd call the Camaro futuristic retro, as opposed to a carbon copy like the Challenger.. you cant say that they are both the same level of retroness, if you think that's the cas youa re just deluding yourself

I'm not gonna get into a what is "more" or "less" retro argument. The car speaks for itself. BTW I happen to like the design alot. However, I'm not gonna rationalize that it is better than the Mustang or the Challenger because it is less of a "copy" than those cars are. IMO they are ALL copies.

PS - Nothing wrong with that either - the originals are classics for a reason. Just don't deny or try to equivicate that the Camaro is something that it is not. It's RETRO.

If I seen the 2010 Camaro on the street and didn't know nothing about the 2010 Camaro I would not say oh that’s look like the 69 Camaro. GM could have called this car something else. If anything the interior of the car may give it away than exterior. The Mustang looks like a retro Mustang and the Challenger look like a retro challenger.

Raven99, Actually the name of the river is Nile not denial, our education system has really let these kids down. Yes, I will supersize my number 1 thanks.

lol.

you've never heard the saying before, i take it?

denial
denile
de nile
the nile

wow. i hope that was sarcasm.

I have to say that I hate Mustang and Challangers because they are simply copies of cars of the old days. My initial response to the Camaro concept was oh no not another retro car. The more I examined the car and compared it with my 69 Camaro the more I realized that the designers did an amazing job of designing a car that is a unique blend of modern with styling cues from the old days. Watching the show saving GM they showed an intial design of the Camaro concept that was essentially a 68 Camaro and Ed Wellburn sent them back to the drawing board. Thanks ED. I will buy the Camaro because it does remind me of my first car and first love, my 69 Camaro but I will love this car for the courageous design of taking the best of old styling and blending it with a modern design that just looks fantastic.

You own a 69 Camaro and you hate retro?

Interesting arguements in this thread why other people should still like the car for different reasons than they already do though.

I think it's interesting when some people talk about 'retro' cars. I have one friend that says he'd rather have an old car like the '68 than a new one. I guess I'm rather spoiled, because I'm getting used to the better ride, less sound, and better handling of the newer cars.

I agree with what some others have said before. Challenger is way retro, Mustang is fairly retro. However Camaro just has some retro cues, but some modern lines as well. There's a big difference. Mustang is more retro than Camaro. Nothing totally wrong with that, either. I admire all three. :cool:

Is a 4th gen camaro a "retro" 2nd gen? Is the 94 mustang a retro 64? Does a new gen have to look completely different from all previous gens to not be "retro?" I think if it was that way it would lose its identity for the sake of 'not being retro' whatever retro is supposed to mean.

Raven99, Actually the name of the river is Nile not denial, our education system has really let these kids down. Yes, I will supersize my number 1 thanks.

:nuts:

lol.

you've never heard the saying before, i take it?

denial
denile
de nile
the nile

wow. i hope that was sarcasm.

:thumb: Thanks! :) I'm glad somebody got it. I didn't want to waste my time educating him about that :lol:

I remember when I first saw the pics of the concept when they took pictures of it on the streets of Dallas (I believe). The first thought that came into my mind was, "wow, that thing looks alien".
Maybe it was the show car proportions or chopped top, but it didn't look like anything else on the road NOR did it look like a 1st gen Camaro.

Raven99, Actually the name of the river is Nile not denial, our education system has really let these kids down

I totally agree with your opening statement, but you know it was a joke
about denial and the Nile right?

I totally agree with your opening statement, but you know it was a joke
about denial and the Nile right?

Of course I know it is a joke. I was just trying to be a smart ass. I don't consider my opinion denial however. It is simply my point of view that the Camaro has a refreshing blend of old and new. When I bought my 04 GTO I had to read hundreds of posts of guys complaining about why the car was not retro. Personally I think other than the lack of hood scoops and dual exhaust exits the GTO was pretty cool. If you look at where the GTO left off at it is easy to see that 20 or so years of evolution would have landed the design about where they were.

Back to the Camaro. I love the 69 Camaro but would not want to by a carbon copy of the car. I think Mustang is way too much of a carbon copy and Challanger is a total reproduction car in terms of every meaningful visual element. My intial impression of the Camaro Concept was that GM had done the same thing but as I compared this car with my 69 and watched the production car evolve I think GM did a nice job of not taking the easy way out.

Lastly, why do I hate retro cars? Simple what will the next step be in the design? For Mustang I have to wonder are they going to build a Mustang II next? I assume the Challanger will have a decent run and then when sales die off they will put it back into moth balls. Heck I am not so sure Chrysler will live to see the full life of the model. As for Camaro I wonder what the next gen will look like but I think they have enough modern elements that this design has the ability to evolve more so than the others. Again this is my opinion and nothing more. I am however looking forward to the 2012 Mustang II 4 cyl with a tan vinal top.

I would call the call the Camaro retro-modern, a edgy looking car that recalls the past.
The Challenger,which i used to like until the production pics of the Camaro,is just basically a carbon copy with no modern look at all,except for the compromises to make a '70 car into a '09 car.
The Mustang isn't so much retro to me as the others,as a Mustang has always looked like a Mustang. The F-body evolved into a racy look,and each generation took on a completely different look from the last,with only the 3rd and 4th gens sharing a type of similar look. The Mustang always looked the same,it got only more muscular from '67 until the bloated '71. But the car retained the basic design.Then the Mustang II(the 1st "retro" Mustang)put the car back to its roots in size and character. The '79-93 Mustang is the only model that doesn't "look" like a traditional Mustang if only because the lack of a horse grill,it also tried various tri-tailight themes,but other than that generation,the Mustang has always retained the horse grill,tri-taillights,long hood,short deck look.
So,other than a return to round headlights,the '05-09 Mustang looks like any other Mustang,it's like a Mini,it can't be retro if its always looked like that. The most retro thing about the '05 was the marketing,but then Ford played up the past with the '94 as well("it was,it is"...or something like that) The newest T-bird is the worst,most cynical example of a bad retro car.
I love the new Camaro by the way,i really hopes Ford steps up with the new '10 Mustang,because i want a tough choice when it comes time to buy! This may the last time these two rivals square off with big engines and bad attitudes.

Just picked up an Iphone yesterday and searched you tube for Camaro and watched a video of Jay Leno commenting on the Camaro. The reporter asked about the car being retro and Jay was very clear in his opinion that it was a modern car with design aspects that were complementary to the history of the car. He named the Challanger and Mustang as straightforward retro cars.

It always brings a smile to my face when I read these threads. "copies". If you cant tell the diffrence between the model years that they took styling cues from and the current gen models you should be driving a civic. It's impossible to confuse the 2 cars. Neither the challenger or the mustang look like direct copies. You can see where the styling was derived.......but guess what? Thats how it should be. Unique cues should not be abandoned as thats brand identification. You can park a last gen mustang next to the current and see they are just as related as or more so then the '68. You can park the challengers next to each other and even an idiot can see they have nothing in common but a shared theme. They dont even share porportions. Retro in reality is just using heritage cues that strike a cord with the intended audiance. OH, and its a reason just another reason for some guys to complain. If it was not the retro argument it would be something else.

If you watch the saving GM show you will see what they had originally planned which was a carbon copy of the 68 Camaro. If you see the new Challanger next to the old Challanger you will see that the cars are essentially the same with minor tweeks. The Mustang is less so but things such as taillights are a great example of simply too retro for me. I think the Camaro is an interesting blend of both retro and modern design. Clearly if they were to start from scratch they would not have come up with a large open grill but beyond that most of the styling looks appropriate for a modern car. When you get to the rear of the car they could have sold out an duplicated the 69 rear end with similar taillights, backup lights and shaping. In stead they did some nice blending of concepts.

On the interior at least they didn't just take stuff from other cars or trucks and throw it into the interior of this car. Most of the Mustang interior and 100% of the center stack comes from my Ford F-150. The Challanger is much the same and the interior is a real let down. Having said that both of those cars will sell just fine.

I think the Camaro is more sustainable because it is a car that when compared to a car like the G37 it is still very cool. Of course I am bias because of my passion for the 69 and as a former owner of a 94 Z-28.

Raven99, Actually the name of the river is Nile not denial, our education system has really let these kids down. Yes, I will supersize my number 1 thanks.

Um, yeah. From pics on this site when the concept debuted the diffrence from the "really retro" to the "somewhat retro" were not all that great at all. They were very few.

Of course I know it is a joke. I was just trying to be a smart ass. I don't consider my opinion denial however. It is simply my point of view that the Camaro has a refreshing blend of old and new. When I bought my 04 GTO I had to read hundreds of posts of guys complaining about why the car was not retro. Personally I think other than the lack of hood scoops and dual exhaust exits the GTO was pretty cool. If you look at where the GTO left off at it is easy to see that 20 or so years of evolution would have landed the design about where they were.

Back to the Camaro. I love the 69 Camaro but would not want to by a carbon copy of the car. I think Mustang is way too much of a carbon copy and Challanger is a total reproduction car in terms of every meaningful visual element. My intial impression of the Camaro Concept was that GM had done the same thing but as I compared this car with my 69 and watched the production car evolve I think GM did a nice job of not taking the easy way out.

Lastly, why do I hate retro cars? Simple what will the next step be in the design? For Mustang I have to wonder are they going to build a Mustang II next? I assume the Challanger will have a decent run and then when sales die off they will put it back into moth balls. Heck I am not so sure Chrysler will live to see the full life of the model. As for Camaro I wonder what the next gen will look like but I think they have enough modern elements that this design has the ability to evolve more so than the others. Again this is my opinion and nothing more. I am however looking forward to the 2012 Mustang II 4 cyl with a tan vinal top.

Stop repeating what you have read for years on this and other boards. Think about what you are saying. No one did a direct copy on any of these cars. They used bits of the older cars. The next step can be whatever the designer wants as long as it looks like it belongs. Its not very smart to say something like "the next step has to be the same as it was for the car who styling the cues came from". The next mustang will not be a mustang 2 and you dont even remotely think it will.

Just picked up an Iphone yesterday and searched you tube for Camaro and watched a video of Jay Leno commenting on the Camaro. The reporter asked about the car being retro and Jay was very clear in his opinion that it was a modern car with design aspects that were complementary to the history of the car. He named the Challanger and Mustang as straightforward retro cars.


Ahh, you got us all. If Leno agrees it must be true.

It always brings a smile to my face when I read these threads. "copies". If you cant tell the diffrence between the model years that they took styling cues from and the current gen models you should be driving a civic. It's impossible to confuse the 2 cars. Neither the challenger or the mustang look like direct copies. You can see where the styling was derived.......but guess what? Thats how it should be. Unique cues should not be abandoned as thats brand identification. You can park a last gen mustang next to the current and see they are just as related as or more so then the '68. You can park the challengers next to each other and even an idiot can see they have nothing in common but a shared theme. They dont even share porportions. Retro in reality is just using heritage cues that strike a cord with the intended audiance. OH, and its a reason just another reason for some guys to complain. If it was not the retro argument it would be something else.

Agreed 100%!

Stop repeating what you have read for years on this and other boards. Think about what you are saying. No one did a direct copy on any of these cars. They used bits of the older cars. The next step can be whatever the designer wants as long as it looks like it belongs. Its not very smart to say something like "the next step has to be the same as it was for the car who styling the cues came from". The next mustang will not be a mustang 2 and you dont even remotely think it will.

I'm not quoting what I have read here for years. I am stating my opinion just as you are. I think you are a bit rude and don't understand your attitude. I thought this was a place where we can discuss issues and show respect for eachothers ideas and opinons but apparently that is not the case where you are concerned. What makes your opinion any more or less valid than mine?? Perhaps this is an oppourtinuty for self reflection.

I've been lurking around here awhile, trying to get info on the camaro. Well, earlier this week I had the opportunity to sit in and start (lit up the dash/gauges) the Red RS camaro that's been floating around. All I have to say is WOW!!

I had a '98 z28 that I reluctantly sold and was thinking about buying another 4th gen because I was so dissappointed about the retro "chunky" styling and the retro interior. But, once I sat in it and got the feel they were going for I really liked it.

The gauges and everything look great, and I liked it even more. I agree about some retro cues.....but regardless, this Camaro has way more style than the 4th gen. The only thing I'm still not sure about is the radio....but that may end up growing on me too.

I knew the first concept they built was more retro. I'm glad they went a little newer. i think the next mustang , in a few years, is already planned that way. If you think about it, the new Camaro is an evolution of the 67', the same way the current Corvette is an evolution of the 68'. The big difference with the Camaro, is that it made big changes from one generation to the next, while the Corvette maintained a similar look. It just straightened it's curves, or brought them back , from one decade to the next.
I would have liked a lower front end, but i'm happy with the design.
Only things that bother me are the gauges on the floor and the weight.

.......was thinking about buying another 4th gen because I was so dissappointed about the retro "chunky" styling and the retro interior. But, once I sat in it and got the feel they were going for I really liked it.

The gauges and everything look great, and I liked it even more. I agree about some retro cues.....but regardless, this Camaro has way more style than the 4th gen.......


Cool!! Hopefully when these they start appearing on the roads and at the dealerships even more people will be "converted".

The reporter asked about the car being retro and Jay was very clear in his opinion that it was a modern car with design aspects that were complementary to the history of the car. He named the Challanger and Mustang as straightforward retro cars.

Bingo! I dare someone to say Jay doesn't know his cars. Of course I'm sure
there are many up here that think they know way more than him. :lol::lol: Key word being think. ;)

Lastly, why do I hate retro cars? Simple what will the next step be in the design? For Mustang I have to wonder are they going to build a Mustang II next? .

You do know when Ford made a significant departure from the tradtional Mustang styling (not talking about the IIs - they did follow the trend) with the Fox body car only a certain subset of Mustang guys prefer the car. Yes Fox cars are popular, but only with the crowd that grew up with them, when Ford went with the S-197 all the commercials that featured the cars history showed the 64-66, 67-68, 69-70, 71-73, 74-70, 94-98, 99-04 Mustangs - fox cars, apprently not a Mustang.

Ask the majority of Mustang guys what a real Mustang is and they will tell you a fox car was more or less just a V8 EXP.