Which would you rather have - New V6 with SC or Turbo VS New SS

Here is the situation, I will have saved up around $10,000 by the end of the year to put down on either a new C6 or on a new SS. But i am really not to excited to be paying the payments on a $50,000 C6 or a $40,000 SS, so I was thinking that it might make sense to just put $5000 down on a V6 camaro and use the other 5 left over to put a turbo or SC in the V6. The car would be alot cheaper with lower insurance and weight, and would be as fast or probably faster than a stock SS. So what do you guys think? Also would $5000 be enough for a good SC/Turbo set up, and what other supporting mods would I need to do in addition to the power adder.

I am no expert but adding boost will probably void your warranty. Seeing how this is the first year for this car, a warranty might be useful.

I don't think that will be enough money if you want the powertrain and chassis to servive for a long time. I'm not sure you'd be able to find such a SC/turbo kit that cheap, in addition. Good luck though :)

I don't think that will be enough money if you want the powertrain and chassis to servive for a long time. I'm not sure you'd be able to find such a SC/turbo kit that cheap, in addition. Good luck though :)


Depends on how stout the powertrain is. The Mustang GT can easily handle a sc making 500hp. But, like many cars, the upper model is more then just power. In most cases its brakes and handleing improvments as well (suspension and wheels) along with better interior (seats). It usually costs far less then trying to build your own equivilant.

I wouldn't get a SC or a turbo the first year you get the car. I wouldn't be thinking waiting for another 4 or 5 years, when your warranty is over plus you give plenty of time for Aftermarket companies to really fine tune it. You don't want to be the first test subject on a Turbocharger or SC from a aftermarket company.

Here is what I see with going that route:
Voided warranty
Headaches with tuning issues that plague all modded cars but are more dangerous on FI
5k....no more like 6-10 for a a full turbo kit if you want one that will be worth it. Superchargers need all the same supporting mods as turbo's so it ends up being more than just 5K for the kit.

just to name a few.

Honestly I would never by a brand new car that was my daily driver and then mod it like that because I have been there and done that and it is just asking for problems.

Spend a few extra grand and by and SS you have a year before you would even be able to get your hands on any Camaro without mark ups so just start saving now.

Thanks for all the coments. I'll probably just get the SS or mabye a used o8
C6. I never even thought about it being the first year and likely could have some bugs. A voided warranty and being the first year just has bad news written all over it.

Thanks for all the coments. I'll probably just get the SS or mabye a used o8
C6. I never even thought about it being the first year and likely could have some bugs. A voided warranty and being the first year just has bad news written all over it.

Skip the supercharger and the V6 could be quite an interesting option with a Turbocharger . The biggest impediment will be the very complicated Bosch PCM's GM is using with the direct injected engines . Not one of the new DI engines has seen full potential because it has not been fully cracked yet ....on sections of it have and few companies have plug in controllers that are quite costly ...Hahns is $1000 as are a few others . My crystal ball says a 3.6 with VVT , a turbo and DI with a fully tuneable PCM will embarrass more than a few modded LS3 SS cars .

There shouldnt be much to worry about with 1st year bugs as far as the engine and trans is concerned . The same V6 and trans has been in the CTS since the new one came out in 07 , the LS3/t56 in the vette , and the 6.0w/AFM/A6 in the Holden Commodore . The newbie bugs woulda worked themselves out in those cars by now .

I would jus pop for a SS . Proven engine and a fully asjustable PCM .

a $40,000 SS,

Say what? $40,000 for the SS. Where you getting that price?

i could care less about those two... i just want a z/28

I second that.

I wish GM would offer a turbo V-6 in the top level model along with the V-8.

Say what? $40,000 for the SS. Where you getting that price?

I'd like to know that myself.

I'd think it is just a guess. I personally don't think that he is that far off, probably a little low if anything.

I'd think it is just a guess. I personally don't think that he is that far off, probably a little low if anything.

$40k for an SS is way high. There's lots of threads on pricing, but here's the short versions:


Q. How much will it cost?

A. Pricing is not expected to be released until early 2009, but it is expected to be similar to the Camaro target, the Ford Mustang.


This car will be amazingly affordable -- esp. when you realize what comes standard with the car-- and the comfort in driving it day in and day out......

Premium.....the V8 Camaro will not be $37,000 -- if it were, it would bomb.
It will be affordable and it will be in Mustang territory. "Premium" could mean a few hundred dollars......

Say what? $40,000 for the SS. Where you getting that price?

I wasnt giving an exact price, thats just what I figure the price will be close to, give or take. My thinking is that the price will be comperable to a Challenger or Charger SRT8 which is in the $40,000 range. I know that they are saying that it will be in line with comperable Mustang pricing but the 300 hp GT Mustang is not comperable to the 400+ SS so I think they will be higher than the $29,000 GT in my opnion. My guess is that a fully loaded top of the line SS will be around $42,000 but obviously thats just my thinking and opinion. I hope for all of our sakes that I am way off on this but I doubt it.

My guess is that a fully loaded top of the line SS will be around $42,000 but obviously thats just my thinking and opinion. I hope for all of our sakes that I am way off on this but I doubt it.

You did actually read my post before yours, right? :)

Neither.

Turbo or supercharge an SS.



Well, anyway...

That might not be an option, so let's look at your idea a little closer:

Modding the V6 like that is going to have some problems:

1) Compression. It's too high to effectively implement forced induction. You'll have to swap out the pistons to get the compression low enough to then make forced induction practicible.

2) There isn't going to be much aftermarket support for your endeavor. Tuning is going to be problematic.

3) It's not really built for it. Expect to grenade parts.

If you really want to have fun for less on a smaller displacement motor, a Solstice GXP coupe with the 260hp motor is going to be a better bet. It's built for forced induction as is, there will be significant aftermarket support, and it's lighter (more bang for you $$$).

You did actually read my post before yours, right? :)

Yeah I did I, I still think the pricing will be around $40,000 though. I guess time will tell. You know it would be cool if we could set up some kind of contest to see who could guess closest to the starting price for an SS. Anyway thanks for everyones opinions I will just stay away from trying to SC the V6 and just get a SS or used C6.

Yeah I did I, I still think the pricing will be around $40,000 though. I guess time will tell. You know it would be cool if we could set up some kind of contest to see who could guess closest to the starting price for an SS.

Or...are you interested in a friendly wager? :yes:

Anyway thanks for everyones opinions I will just stay away from trying to SC the V6 and just get a SS or used C6.

Not a bad idea. I would wait until those prices come out, though.

Yeah I did I, I still think the pricing will be around $40,000 though.

Or...are you interested in a friendly wager? :yes:

As long as everyone's talking MSRP and NOT markups. It could be 50k if idiots are willing to pay it. My money's on about $30,500 plus options.

Anyway..back on topic. I looked into FI and it looks more economical (for me, anyway) to just go cam, intake, exhaust, tune. I'd be happy with that kind of HP for the money.

Neither.

Turbo or supercharge an SS.



Well, anyway...

That might not be an option, so let's look at your idea a little closer:

Modding the V6 like that is going to have some problems:

1) Compression. It's too high to effectively implement forced induction. You'll have to swap out the pistons to get the compression low enough to then make forced induction practicible.

2) There isn't going to be much aftermarket support for your endeavor. Tuning is going to be problematic.

3) It's not really built for it. Expect to grenade parts.

If you really want to have fun for less on a smaller displacement motor, a Solstice GXP coupe with the 260hp motor is going to be a better bet. It's built for forced induction as is, there will be significant aftermarket support, and it's lighter (more bang for you $$$).

It can be done to add a turbo or an SC on the DI V6 matter of fact there are working on one now for the CTS. The High compression is just a mere hurdle in development FI. You see Superchargers and turbos on Diesel engines. I will not be surprise if there is more aftermarket support for the V6 than the V8 due to the innovative secrets the DI V6 holds.

Judging by what Fbodfather has posted about it not being 37,000 and being comparable to a Mustang, plus the option prices that were in the survey, I don't think a loaded SS will cost 42,000, I think it will be a good bit less.

Regardless of what it will cost, as others have pointed out, supercharging or turboing a 1st year car is not my idea of a good time. Not because I expect the Camaro to have 1st year bugs, but because I don't think the aftermarket will really have a handle on how to best add forced induction to the car in the 1st year.

For example, if you put a heads and cam package or a blower on your 98 LS1 in 1998, you didn't end up with as much drivability and power as could be had with a circa 2005 heads & cam setup or blower. Simply because after the car had been out for a while, the aftermarket got more proficient at extracting power, and more parts became available as well.

Neither.

Turbo or supercharge an SS.



Well, anyway...

That might not be an option, so let's look at your idea a little closer:

Modding the V6 like that is going to have some problems:

1) Compression. It's too high to effectively implement forced induction. You'll have to swap out the pistons to get the compression low enough to then make forced induction practicible.

2) There isn't going to be much aftermarket support for your endeavor. Tuning is going to be problematic.

3) It's not really built for it. Expect to grenade parts.

If you really want to have fun for less on a smaller displacement motor, a Solstice GXP coupe with the 260hp motor is going to be a better bet. It's built for forced induction as is, there will be significant aftermarket support, and it's lighter (more bang for you $$$).

The DI V6 does have a pretty high compression ratio, but GM recommends regular gas. This means that if you are okay with having to buy premium you can safely add a fair amount of boost, more than you could with an LS3 for instance.

FWIW: I think that the secret to the high compression with cheap gas is: oil squirters cooling the pistons and DOHC VVT would allow the computer to reduce the effective compression ratio if the knock sensors go off.

I would love a TT DI V6 Camaro (or maybe a Mustang), but I think I’ll wait for a factory unit or a few years of aftermarket experience.

Judging by what Fbodfather has posted about it not being 37,000 and being comparable to a Mustang, plus the option prices that were in the survey, I don't think a loaded SS will cost 42,000, I think it will be a good bit less.

Regardless of what it will cost, as others have pointed out, supercharging or turboing a 1st year car is not my idea of a good time. Not because I expect the Camaro to have 1st year bugs, but because I don't think the aftermarket will really have a handle on how to best add forced induction to the car in the 1st year.

For example, if you put a heads and cam package or a blower on your 98 LS1 in 1998, you didn't end up with as much drivability and power as could be had with a circa 2005 heads & cam setup or blower. Simply because after the car had been out for a while, the aftermarket got more proficient at extracting power, and more parts became available as well.


who cares if thatll be the first year of the camaro. THE ENGINE will already have been out for a few years. In 98' the LS1 was only 1 year old and that style engine was new entirely to the aftermarket. Much different scenario

since its pretty much the same car as the G8 and GXP i expect the Camaro to be priced very similar to it. 2 less doors yes, but the styling is a lil more sporty as well.With the AUTOMATIC Camaros being closer to the G8 in price and the Manual LS3 in the GXP range.

since its pretty much the same car as the G8 and GXP i expect the Camaro to be priced very similar to it. 2 less doors yes, but the styling is a lil more sporty as well.With the AUTOMATIC Camaros being closer to the G8 in price and the Manual LS3 in the GXP range.

Why would the manuals be more? Seems like it should be the other way around. Is the L99 in anything else? The LS3 is shared with at least the Corvette which should make it cheaper than the L99 (if this is the only car it is used in) and aren't manuals usually standard and automatics are option$

Why would the manuals be more? Seems like it should be the other way around. Is the L99 in anything else? The LS3 is shared with at least the Corvette which should make it cheaper than the L99 (if this is the only car it is used in) and aren't manuals usually standard and automatics are option$

Maybe this gen but not last gen! The manual was more expensive. I did not buy my 3rd gen new so I dont know if it was that way then.

Maybe this gen but not last gen! The manual was more expensive. I did not buy my 3rd gen new so I dont know if it was that way then.

On 3rd gens the 700r4 was damn close to $1000 more than the t-5's on the 305 cars . The Later LS1 4th gens the manual was a no cost option . And last I saw on the Corvette , the new ( way more advance than a 4L65e ) 6 speed auto is again back to hefty premium over the t-56 ....$12xx option on the last auto Vette I looked at .

I will not be surprise if there is more aftermarket support for the V6 than the V8 due to the innovative secrets the DI V6 holds.

The LS engines in the new Camaro already benefit from one of the largest aftermarket bases in the industry . I do think though , this time around ....there will be PLENTY of people playing with the V6 model as a preference over the V8 .

The LS engines in the new Camaro already benefit from one of the largest aftermarket bases in the industry . I do think though , this time around ....there will be PLENTY of people playing with the V6 model as a preference over the V8 .

why do people lump the "LS" engines together if their parts are not even fully interchangeable?

Why would the manuals be more? Seems like it should be the other way around. Is the L99 in anything else? The LS3 is shared with at least the Corvette which should make it cheaper than the L99 (if this is the only car it is used in) and aren't manuals usually standard and automatics are option$

using that reasoning the GXP would cost less than the G8......Its not all about cost, its about value and what people would pay.

using that reasoning the GXP would cost less than the G8......Its not all about cost, its about value and what people would pay.

But the GXP has the LS3 which is better than the L76 that the base G8 with a V8 option comes with.

But the GXP has the LS3 which is better than the L76 that the base G8 with a V8 option comes with.

its also better than the L99.Since the L99 is "better" than the L76, and the G8 and camaro are pretty much the same cars with similar content then pricing should be the same, if not MORE for the Camaro.And obviously the manual tranny higher horsepower LS3 version is an upgrade from that still.If it offers pretty much the same performance as the GXP and is pretty much the same car underneath the sheetmetal, i dont see why people would be surprised to find it in a similar price range............

who cares if thatll be the first year of the camaro. THE ENGINE will already have been out for a few years. In 98' the LS1 was only 1 year old and that style engine was new entirely to the aftermarket. Much different scenario

While the engine has been out for a little while already, as far as I know it is only in the 2008 and up CTS and STS. Not a whole lot of aftermarket support there, relative to Mustang/Camaro/Corvette levels. So for all practical purposes, the aftermarket will still be learning the Direct Injection 3.6 during the 1st year of the 2010 Camaro, at about the same level they were still learning the LS1 in 1998.

While the engine has been out for a little while already, as far as I know it is only in the 2008 and up CTS and STS. Not a whole lot of aftermarket support there, relative to Mustang/Camaro/Corvette levels. So for all practical purposes, the aftermarket will still be learning the Direct Injection 3.6 during the 1st year of the 2010 Camaro, at about the same level they were still learning the LS1 in 1998.

my bad. Miscommunication. i was talkin about the LS3

The DI V6 does have a pretty high compression ratio, but GM recommends regular gas. This means that if you are okay with having to buy premium you can safely add a fair amount of boost, more than you could with an LS3 for instance.

FWIW: I think that the secret to the high compression with cheap gas is: oil squirters cooling the pistons and DOHC VVT would allow the computer to reduce the effective compression ratio if the knock sensors go off.

I would love a TT DI V6 Camaro (or maybe a Mustang), but I think I’ll wait for a factory unit or a few years of aftermarket experience.

Bro, if you're going to jump all the hurdles involved with throwing forced induction on a car that doesn't have it, and leave the static compression north of 10.1:1 you're leaving a tremendous amount of power on the table.

Regarding your second statement, you're right there...

Being the pioneer in slapping forced induction on the DI V6 would require a lot of $$$ to cover the parts you are most assuredly going to destroy.

why do people lump the "LS" engines together if their parts are not even fully interchangeable?

I run LS7 titanium rods and crank with an LS1 reluctor in a truck based LQ4 iron block with LS7 derivative heads, custom forged pistons, an LS7 intake, and an LS2 timing chain with LS1 coil packs bolted to stock LS1 valve covers with standard 1 7/8" Edelbrock stepped headers (universal LSx - they bolt to any of the motors...) handling exhaust duties... all bolted into a 2001 Camaro SS.

That's pretty darned interchangeable if you ask me.




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To me, the Camaro is about raw appeal. The thought of a boosted V6 just doesn't stir my emotions as much as a strong V8. Even with a significant edge in performance, it wouldn't be enough to make me want to opt for a boosted V6 in a 5G.

I run LS7 titanium rods and crank with an LS1 reluctor in a truck based LQ4 iron block with LS7 derivative heads, custom forged pistons, an LS7 intake, and an LS2 timing chain with LS1 coil packs bolted to stock LS1 valve covers with standard 1 7/8" Edelbrock stepped headers (universal LSx - they bolt to any of the motors...) handling exhaust duties... all bolted into a 2001 Camaro SS.

That's pretty darned interchangeable if you ask me.




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Couldnt have said it better myself :D

Couldnt have said it better myself :D

why didnt he just bolt all that to an Ls1 block? cant? Are there any LS1's out there with LS3 heads? L76Heads? LS2 heads? Any LS1's with LS7 intake manifolds?

The LS1 had a small bore compared to the newer engines out there. The newer engines utilize the large bore to optimize valve placement and size.

Before you add 5 or 10 k in mods you have to consider several things. If the car gets stolen you are out all of the value of the mods. If the car is totaled same thing. When you go to sell the car you are unlikely to get a penny more for your car if it has engine mods. In fact you are likely to have more of a problem with selling your car. The more mods the smaller the pool of potential buyers. I know this from personal experience. I have a buddy who does this with every car and every time he takes a bath.
I think you can get an SS for far less than 40k. For the price difference between the SS and LT/LS you gain tons of performance advantages in the areas that really count like suspension and brakes.

Before you add 5 or 10 k in mods you have to consider several things. If the car gets stolen you are out all of the value of the mods. If the car is totaled same thing. When you go to sell the car you are unlikely to get a penny more for your car if it has engine mods. In fact you are likely to have more of a problem with selling your car. The more mods the smaller the pool of potential buyers. I know this from personal experience. I have a buddy who does this with every car and every time he takes a bath.
I think you can get an SS for far less than 40k. For the price difference between the SS and LT/LS you gain tons of performance advantages in the areas that really count like suspension and brakes.

I think we should keep an eye out at the price of the GXP as an indicator of the price of the SS camaro since they will be compareable in a lot of areas (performance,build quality,ride,etc....) as well as being built off the same (same enough) platform. Comparing the GXP and the new Camaro will pretty much be the same as comparing a Challenger with the Charger, and we know those two are priced similarly as well.

why didnt he just bolt all that to an Ls1 block? cant? Are there any LS1's out there with LS3 heads? L76Heads? LS2 heads? Any LS1's with LS7 intake manifolds?

LS1 + LS7 crank = 383

LQ4 + LS7 crank = 408

I ran the numbers for the LS1 vs. the LQ4, and the benefit from the added 25 cubes was greater than the weight penalty. Vehicle-wise, it's a 3% weight penalty for a 7% increase in displacement.

The ideal would be one of the aluminum LS2 blocks from a weight standpoint... BUT... they're pricey (even as cores - IF you can find one), and the iron block is more robust, which helps with keeping the heads seated, main flex, crank durability, etc...


Regarding the other interchanges...

Yes, you can put LS7-style (LS7 or L92) heads on an LS1. At that point you need a different intake manifold, spacers for you fuel rails and a different throttle body.

The LS7 intake doesn't bolt up to LS1, LS6/LS2 or LQ4 heads, so if you want to put the LS7 intake on your car, you have to change the cylinder heads.

Here's my combo laid out top to bottom:

LQ4 iron block
ARP main studs
LS7 crank
LS1 reluctor
LS7 titanium rods
Katech rod bolts
F-car oil pan
Ported LS1 oil pump
Stock F-car balancer
Custom forged Arias pistons
Clevite bearings
ET Performance LS7 235cc heads
LS7 intake and exhaust rockers
Stock GM 6.0 liter MLS head gaskets
Stock GM head bolts (first design)
A pretty nasty cam... Heh...
LS7 intake manifold (the FAST intakes, in whatever iteration, are pretty much a waste of money... GM doesn't leave power on the table from intake manifolds gents...)
42# injectors
Edelbrock 90mm throttle body
SLP 85mm MAF
Fast Toys Ram Air
Whisper Lid
Fram PAPER filter (K&N = another waste of $$$)
Edelbrock stepped headers (non-emissions)
Edelbrock Y pipe (no cats... erm... OBVIOUSLY...)
Stock cat-back with a cutout welded into the middle of it


For the drivetrain:
Spec Stage 3 ceramic clutch
Spec Aluminum flywheel
D&D beefed up T-56 w/ Viper output shaft
4130 Driveshaft w/ 1350 yokes
Strange 12-bolt w/ 4.11 gears & an Eaton Tru-Trac




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