im ready to be shot down....PRICING?!?

ok so ive been doing some extensive searching all over the web to try and answer a question that i have but im having no luck.



I know that the car isnt going to be released until the 1st quarter and blahh blahh blahh..., but when will we be able to know what the true price or the car/ options? Everything Ive read is all about what the pricing is "supposed to be",or an opinion of the prices. Dosen't GM release the price tag before the car is actually out? or is it the other way around? Either way im just as excited as anyone to see thing thing roll on the streets again!

They don't release price until just before the car comes out. There's a lot of reasons for this, but one thought is that during the initial build process, production costs are clarified and that has an effect on the outcome of the car. Plus or minus forecasted costs divided by X amount of cars scheduled to be built sways the car pricing in one direction or another. Just off the top of my head, I might be incorrect. Someone else may be able to chime in.

However, they can't even start anything without a business case, which determines how viable the car will be in the target price range. People's jobs are on the line to stay close to that target goal. Mustang pricing is that target, and from what we all know so far, it is going to hit that target. We are expecting to know sometimes after the first of the year.

Mustang pricing is that target, and from what we all know so far, it is going to hit that target. .

should clarify that we arent going to be getting a LS for $19,735 like the base mustang v6 is priced, and you arent going to get an SS for $26,425 like the Mustang GT starts at.

GM has said they will price the Camaro to match what they feel is a comparably equipped Mustang.. and since the Camaro comes with more standard features than the Mustang, it's base prices for the v6 and v8 will be higher than those above for the Mustang

If the price is right for the average consumer to purchase, I dont think selling 80 - 100K cars a year is going to be a problem. The bigger problem will probably be to make enough to meet demand. For that I hope this brings GM back where it was before.

I forgot about the volume of Camaros GM plans to make, does anyone know the amount of G8's made (imported) because those come in at just under 30k and they move no where near the volume that the camaro is supposed to move...

could the 80k-100k camaros that GM is supposed to build help get the cost down closer to the mustang price???
the G8 is over 30k now, atleast, from what I last heard.

the G8 is over 30k now, atleast, from what I last heard.

I bought an 08 G8 GT IOM. The 29995 was for the GT with no options. The 09 G8 GTs (no options) bumped up to over 30k. But other GM cars also got bumped up for 09 due to sluggish truck sales.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/chevrolet-increases-malibus-price-by-300-for-2008.html

:| so to answer my question, there is no "SET" date on when the actual price will be told. correct? i mean not even an insider who works for a chevy dealership will know? it just dosent make sense that, well i guess it does make sense, have the car first then sell it, not sell it then build it. sheesh what was i thinking....:bang:

:| so to answer my question, there is no "SET" date on when the actual price will be told. correct? i mean not even an insider who works for a chevy dealership will know? it just dosent make sense that, well i guess it does make sense, have the car first then sell it, not sell it then build it. sheesh what was i thinking....:bang:

Dealers do not get the pricing much before pricing is announced to the press -- simply because there is no such thing as a secret anymore!

The pricing will be announced shortly after the new year --

Meanwhile -- I can tell you that it will be very competitively priced. I've seen any number of 'experts' say that the car is going to be $35,000 to $45,000 -- they could not be more wrong..............

Dealers do not get the pricing much before pricing is announced to the press -- simply because there is no such thing as a secret anymore!

The pricing will be announced shortly after the new year --

Meanwhile -- I can tell you that it will be very competitively priced. I've seen any number of 'experts' say that the car is going to be $35,000 to $45,000 -- they could not be more wrong..............

oh crap a fifty thousand dollar Camaro! :eek: :cry:




:lol:

I don't doubt that dealers will initially ask outrageous prices for the Camaros.

Here's another Pontiac dealership rant: The local Poncho dealership has had a V6 G8 sitting in the same spot for over a month now. They won't let anybody test drive it unless they go ahead and write up all the paperwork, run your credit, etc.

oh crap a fifty thousand dollar Camaro! :eek: :cry:




:lol:

I don't doubt that dealers will initially ask outrageous prices for the Camaros.

Here's another Pontiac dealership rant: The local Poncho dealership has had a V6 G8 sitting in the same spot for over a month now. They won't let anybody test drive it unless they go ahead and write up all the paperwork, run your credit, etc.

that's funny. i had some 20 year old salesman practically begging me to go on a test drive on a new G8 when i told him i just wanted to look at the interior and rear suspension (checking up on quality and what to expect from the Camaro). I told him that was my only intention and how I use to work in the sales end of the business as well and He still kept trying selling tactics :lol:

that's funny. i had some 20 year old salesman practically begging me to go on a test drive on a new G8 when i told him i just wanted to look at the interior and rear suspension (checking up on quality and what to expect from the Camaro). I told him that was my only intention and how I use to work in the sales end of the business as well and He still kept trying selling tactics :lol:

I had a similar experience this past weekend. I was out tooling around on my Busa and pulled into a Chevy dealer to look for Aqua Blue. (no luck) Found a Jetstream Vette, and explained to the "vulture" that swooped in on me that I was ONLY looking at colors because I AM getting the new Camaro when it comes out next year. He understood and was actually pretty cool.
Then I went down the street to the Pontiac dealer to see if they had a Brazen Orange Solstice around that I could see for color. They didn't, but they did have an Ignition Orange G8 (v6). Ick. That color is nasty. Anyway, the vulture swooped in and didn't get that I was JUST looking at color for a CAMARO. It's amazing how little salespeople know about the products they sell. This salesperson (an older female) told me that GM uses the same colors and just change the names for different cars. And that the Ignition Orange is probably what they are going to use. I of course informed her that GM is ALREADY using Brazen on a few models, including one that SHE sells. Idiot.
When I pulled myself free from her talons, I noticed gaggle of vultures circling my Busa. Another interesting exchange of information insued. Funny, how they knew more about the Hayabusa than they do about Pontiacs. Surprising as the one asking the most questions had to be in his 60's. I was shocked he even knew what a Hayabusa WAS.

oh crap a fifty thousand dollar Camaro! :eek: :cry:






Yep, and that's probably for the v6 model. :mad:

should clarify that we arent going to be getting a LS for $19,735 like the base mustang v6 is priced, and you arent going to get an SS for $26,425 like the Mustang GT starts at.

GM has said they will price the Camaro to match what they feel is a comparably equipped Mustang.. and since the Camaro comes with more standard features than the Mustang, it's base prices for the v6 and v8 will be higher than those above for the Mustanga 300hp mustang starts at $26,495 and what do you think the 300hp camaro will start at?

a 300hp mustang starts at $26,495 and what do you think the 300hp camaro will start at?

pure conjecture.. but i'm guessing less than that

pure conjecture.. but i'm guessing less than thatwhy?
they said the camaro will be more than the mustang. not much more but more none the less. i'm betting on 28k for the base camaro. 34-35k for a SS.

why?
they said the camaro will be more than the mustang. not much more but more none the less. i'm betting on 28k for the base camaro. 34-35k for a SS.

ooohhh, ooohhhh (raises hand) I want in on that bet!!!!

The Camaro will be more than a comparable Mustang. The fact that the V6 Camaro has 300hp is just a good reason to laugh and point at Ford people, V6 vs.V6 is all we care about here.

I say low 20k's for the base LS, mid 20k's for the base LT, and low 30k's for the SS. It would be awesome if the L99 version started at 29k and change.

ooohhh, ooohhhh (raises hand) I want in on that bet!!!!

The Camaro will be more than a comparable Mustang. The fact that the V6 Camaro has 300hp is just a good reason to laugh and point at Ford people, V6 vs.V6 is all we care about here.depends if its a V6-V6 comparison or a hp-hp one.

Cost is a factor as well in the camparison.
(for arguments sake)
If said V6 with 300hp is priced at 26,000.. you wouldn't really be comparing it to the base V6 Mustang anymore, it'd be better compared to the GT. (based on power and price)

I could see it threading the needle on the comparible mustangs (at least in the interm until ford starts using the newer engines)
Priced (and faster) above a V6 mustang, but more power, yet not as expensive as the GT, nor as fast.
Priced (and faster) above the GT mustang, but more power, yet not as expenisve as a Shelby, nor as fast.

Cost is a factor as well in the camparison.
(for arguments sake)
If said V6 with 300hp is priced at 26,000.. you wouldn't really be comparing it to the base V6 Mustang anymore, it'd be better compared to the GT. (based on power and price).thats where i see it heading.

Heres one of my predictions...


Many times i have seen all motor lightly bolted on 02 SS's run with or in front of lightly bolt 03 supercharged cobras....

Many times i will see 2010 lightly bolted on SS's run with or in front of 2010 supercharged GT500's


:evilgrin:

Dealers do not get the pricing much before pricing is announced to the press -- simply because there is no such thing as a secret anymore!

The pricing will be announced shortly after the new year --

Meanwhile -- I can tell you that it will be very competitively priced. I've seen any number of 'experts' say that the car is going to be $35,000 to $45,000 -- they could not be more wrong..............

OK for everyone still debating the price please read the most inportant post in this whole thread.

A Camaro team member has just responded with when the pricing will be released and that it will be "very" competitively priced. He even decided to bust a popular pricng myth.

End of Debate!

^You better hope 18" wheels fit over the rear Brembos on a Camaro. I dont know of any 20" drag radials out there.
The 09 Mustang GT premium has gone up $1000 over the 08. Added content that was optional is now standard. The 2010 Mustang GT will be out in Jan. 09. THAT is the model that GM will base its 2010 Camaro pricing on, not the 08 or 09.

i just hope i can afford one thats all...lol....i dont care if its a pink V6 base model.....I WILL have one. :D thanks for all the replies fellas

I'm sure GM will price it fairly like they have in the past. I'm just afraid of dealer mark ups.

I'm sure GM will price it fairly like they have in the past. I'm just afraid of dealer mark ups.

well who's the Jason guy in your sig? :confused:

^You better hope 18" wheels fit over the rear Brembos on a Camaro. I dont know of any 20" drag radials out there.
The 09 Mustang GT premium has gone up $1000 over the 08. Added content that was optional is now standard. The 2010 Mustang GT will be out in Jan. 09. THAT is the model that GM will base its 2010 Camaro pricing on, not the 08 or 09.

NITTO makes a 20" Drag Radial.

^You better hope 18" wheels fit over the rear Brembos on a Camaro. I dont know of any 20" drag radials out there.


Who needs brakes.....that's what the parachute is for. :cool:

Nittos are junk, you need MT ET Street radials to really hook. On second thought, Nittos might be good for the Camaros IRS. We'll see how strong the halfshafts are early next year when cars are taken to the tracks with sticky tires by their owmers.

^You better hope 18" wheels fit over the rear Brembos on a Camaro. I dont know of any 20" drag radials out there.
The 09 Mustang GT premium has gone up $1000 over the 08. Added content that was optional is now standard. The 2010 Mustang GT will be out in Jan. 09. THAT is the model that GM will base its 2010 Camaro pricing on, not the 08 or 09.
it'll be tough. with the back brakes being 14.4", I think 19" might be the limit there. 17" is as small as you can fit on my 13" brakes.

well who's the Jason guy in your sig? :confused:

:lol:

JasonD, the administrator for the site...and that was for the die-casts he was selling. He's getting ready for a third version...so you should check out the link!

I say low 20k's for the base LS, mid 20k's for the base LT, and low 30k's for the SS. It would be awesome if the L99 version started at 29k and change.

That is what I'm hoping for

God bless him, Scott is trying to ease peoples minds...

I think someone should just come and say what model Mustang the SS will be compared to. That should quiet down the price debate for a few minutes...

Just going by what i read in motor tred it has a est. price range of 22000-33000 at the end of the camaro section

Just going by what i read in motor tred it has a est. price range of 22000-33000 at the end of the camaro section

If those numbers are correct (I think both ends are about 2000-2500 low), Chevy won't be able to keep up with production on the V6 models. A 300 HP V6 getting better gas mileage than it's direct competitors, who have less HP, will sell and sell and sell... Let's be real for a moment- the Camaro demographic has always been mainly comprised of young men and all ages of women who want a sporty car without having to "up the ante" to a V8. The 60/40 split estimate I've read, V6 to V8, will probably end up more like 65/35 by year two now that a 300 HP V6 is the base engine. Bang for your buck, IMO, is definitely slanted in the V6 direction in this case. I do however agree that the smartest marketing initially would be to get the "core" enthusiasts into the V8 models they (we) are craving.

It won't take too long to flood the market with vehicles and get the dealer markups out of the way. If you want a Camaro in the first 2-3 months of production, I would expect that many dealerships will have somewhere in the range of 3-10k markups; that's life. BUT, it will be short-lived, unlike the Challenger, because it will not be a limited production run with only one model choice in the first year. Now that the Challenger is in full production, like the Camaro will START OUT, Challengers can be ordered at less than sticker in my area (500-1000 off). My .02 says around May 09 Camaros will be there also.

The biggest problem that exists right now is people who are buying Challengers and Mustangs at reasonable prices because they don't need to, or want to, wait another 4-5 months to find out the actual Camaro pricing levels. Every Challenger or Mustang sold between now and then is a potential lost sale for the Camaro just because pricing (which has to be known give or take $1000) isn't available to the public.

GM will be lucky to sell these at MSRP the Camaro SS
The 2009 Hemi Challenger RT will be at Invoice and so will the 2010 Mustang GT.
GM will flood the market with V8s
Since GM lost 15 Billion dollars this week,they better sell
whatever they can

I'm a 33 year old wife, mother, and teacher and I want a HOT car to drive that has decent gas mileage. I would have to say that the V6 would be for me. Now...what color? :)

GM will be lucky to sell these at MSRP the Camaro SS
The 2009 Hemi Challenger RT will be at Invoice and so will the 2010 Mustang GT.
GM will flood the market with V8s
Since GM lost 15 Billion dollars this week,they better sell
whatever they can

I disagree. Pricing across the board throughout various manufacturers seems to have leveled out over the past few years. You no longer seem to be able to walk into any model dealership and automatically assume you're going to be able to pay around INVOICE for a vehicle; that was not the case 6-8 years ago where you indeed could get very close to invoice in most cases (barring top models and exotics).

You are correct though that GM should flood the market with Camaro V8's. That being said, selling more units cheaper to slow the bleeding hurts the entire marketplace as the competitors prices will lower to follow suit. I hate to play devil's advocate and say that we should pay more than you think we should (invoice) for this car, but the reality is the only way the US automotive market- including the dealerships- stays in business is to make money; they can't simply print more and raise your taxes to compensate like the government can.

Factory to dealer holdbacks, the "taboo" unseen money, goes to cover dealership overhead costs including building, heat/cool, lighting, advertising, base pay, etc. While MSRP, imo, is always viewed as a starting point for negotiation, INVOICE is actually below its bottom level. Personally, I've always set my pricing goal at invoice +$500, my upper end at invoice +$1000 and failed to get there only a couple times. That generally splits the invoice/msrp gap and both sides feel they got something. I have NEVER paid MSRP or greater for a vehicle and NEVER will.

I'm a 33 year old wife, mother, and teacher and I want a HOT car to drive that has decent gas mileage. I would have to say that the V6 would be for me. Now...what color? :)

Did you say you were a HOT 33 year old teacher who wants a decent gas mileage V6? j/k

Dealers do not get the pricing much before pricing is announced to the press -- simply because there is no such thing as a secret anymore!

The pricing will be announced shortly after the new year --

Meanwhile -- I can tell you that it will be very competitively priced. I've seen any number of 'experts' say that the car is going to be $35,000 to $45,000 -- they could not be more wrong..............

This is the only quote you need to know the pricing. Obviously GM is going to price this car competitively with the Mustang. I suspect the Camaro will be more expensive because I think there is much more content and thus value. I have just looked at Mustang prices and added about 10% or so as an estimate. With the price of the materials of the car going up between now and production so there really is no way they would set a price well in advance. Having said that Mustang and Challanger are competition and price is a key factor in any buying decision so those cars are your basis for comparison.

The other point is that how some of you define GM is interesting. GM the corporation gets basicly invoice for every car that is sold (I know there are holdbacks etc but stay with me). The dealers are independent and they get the difference between the cost they pay and what they sell it for. If the dealers sell for over or under MSRP it may effect volume but won't effect the margin on each unit. I hope GM will flood the market with these cars. Why wouldn't they? The Camaro is a car for the average car buyer not a limited edition car. It is best for us as fan's and future owners for the supply to match demand for the car so that we all get decent deals on the cars we want. I bought a 04 GTO in Jan of 05 for 8k under MSRP once all of the incentives were added up. That is what happens when demand was high and supply short then the tables turn. Many of those who wanted GTO's got turned off by the dealers markups and waited or moved to another car. Having said that the GTO was a low volume three year model and the Camaro is a high volume long term model.

This is the only quote you need to know the pricing. Obviously GM is going to price this car competitively with the Mustang. I suspect the Camaro will be more expensive because I think there is much more content and thus value. I have just looked at Mustang prices and added about 10% or so as an estimate. With the price of the materials of the car going up between now and production so there really is no way they would set a price well in advance. Having said that Mustang and Challanger are competition and price is a key factor in any buying decision so those cars are your basis for comparison.

The other point is that how some of you define GM is interesting. GM the corporation gets basicly invoice for every car that is sold (I know there are holdbacks etc but stay with me). The dealers are independent and they get the difference between the cost they pay and what they sell it for. If the dealers sell for over or under MSRP it may effect volume but won't effect the margin on each unit. I hope GM will flood the market with these cars. Why wouldn't they? The Camaro is a car for the average car buyer not a limited edition car. It is best for us as fan's and future owners for the supply to match demand for the car so that we all get decent deals on the cars we want. I bought a 04 GTO in Jan of 05 for 8k under MSRP once all of the incentives were added up. That is what happens when demand was high and supply short then the tables turn. Many of those who wanted GTO's got turned off by the dealers markups and waited or moved to another car. Having said that the GTO was a low volume three year model and the Camaro is a high volume long term model.


I was in the exact same boat as you with the GTO. I bought in Sept 04, got $3500 factory/dealer incentive, $3000 off directly from dealer, and $1500 for financing through GMAC. NO ONE made money on that transaction. 3500 was a direct hit to GM (Pontiac); the dealer didn't have 3k to move in price without going through ALL the holdback money plus, and GMAC financing me at 2.9% didn't make squat giving me $1500 up front.

Bottom line, there was little demand for that model year of the car until they started giving it away. You and I both know that the 04 GTO is (was) indeed a 30k+ car NOT 25k and that they lost their collective asses selling them to us at that discount. IMO, the GTO was marketed POORLY at the get-go and no one "in the loop" ever considered that a true (looking) dual exhaust and a simple hood scoop could make all the difference in selling the car closer to MSRP instead of below invoice. The LS2 and its 50 more HP was just a bonus in the situation.

The "extra" time taken in getting the Camaro to market the right way will make all the difference in its sales. Unlike the GTO, its target pricing should make us all say, "WOW !" instead of "Hmmm, well if I can get 5k off that price... ?" We won't see a complete 2nd year model change like the GTO had either. Unfortunately, it appears they did screw up something as simple as HUD for the first production models, but no one is perfect... As I said earlier, I would expect that somewhere in between invoice and MSRP should end up being palatable to both sides.

TRM002, you are right on target with your assessment that it is good that GM is taking their time. With the GTO they were in such a rush that the simple things like hoods, and exhaust that do make a difference were discounted. My guess is that if GM could offer the HUD right away they would but my guess is the supplier cannot get it done. I will be waiting till Dec 2009 for my car specifically for the HUD.

I visited my local Dodge dealer yesterday just to have a look at the new Challanger. The sales reps there were doing everything they could to get me to buy one of their last 3 Limited edition cars. They are asking $20k over sticker and getting anywhere from $12-$20. I told them I was there to compare the challanger to the Camaro expectations. The sales person told me they were "just told on Friday" the base camaro is going to start at $46,999. I asked him if that was on the "base" V6 or V8 and he said it was on the base. As I got more specific with my questions, he dug himself into a deeper and deeper hole. It was hilarious. He had no answer when I asked him why the chevy dealer did not have any pricing info and yet he did. As for the challanger, if you have not seen one in person, it actually does look better in person then on paper. Still, it is huge. It has a very nice and roomy interior, which, gets me even more excited to see the camaro in person. I did like the push button start, but, the exhaust sounds horrible. There is no muscle car sound coming from it. The dealer said you would have to add after market effects to get it to sound like a true muscle car. All in all, it appears to be no competition to the camaro.

I visited my local Dodge dealer yesterday just to have a look at the new Challanger. The sales reps there were doing everything they could to get me to buy one of their last 3 Limited edition cars. They are asking $20k over sticker and getting anywhere from $12-$20. I told them I was there to compare the challanger to the Camaro expectations. The sales person told me they were "just told on Friday" the base camaro is going to start at $46,999. I asked him if that was on the "base" V6 or V8 and he said it was on the base. As I got more specific with my questions, he dug himself into a deeper and deeper hole. It was hilarious. He had no answer when I asked him why the chevy dealer did not have any pricing info and yet he did. As for the challanger, if you have not seen one in person, it actually does look better in person then on paper. Still, it is huge. It has a very nice and roomy interior, which, gets me even more excited to see the camaro in person. I did like the push button start, but, the exhaust sounds horrible. There is no muscle car sound coming from it. The dealer said you would have to add after market effects to get it to sound like a true muscle car. All in all, it appears to be no competition to the camaro.
That's funny that you say that about the exhaust. I've always felt (heard) that the LS1/2/3's were pretty weak sounding. The LT1 sounded great, but the LS series engines just have never sounded that great to me, both stock and modded. They just don't sound deep at all.

I have been buying Stang Gts,Tahoes and never paid over INVOICE
My 2006 Stang Gt was also Invoice while everyone else was getting Msrp or better,but that was when gas was at $2.00 a gal.
When the Camaro SS comes out pas prices will be $4 -$5 a gal or more.
I feel if one dealer does not want to deal with you,there will be another 50 dealers within 1 hours drive.But 99% of the dealers will not let you walk out without you buying something,so I feel invoice is a fair price and screw the dealers because they could care little about us.......Jt

I have been buying Stang Gts,Tahoes and never paid over INVOICE
My 2006 Stang Gt was also Invoice while everyone else was getting Msrp or better,but that was when gas was at $2.00 a gal.
When the Camaro SS comes out pas prices will be $4 -$5 a gal or more.
I feel if one dealer does not want to deal with you,there will be another 50 dealers within 1 hours drive.But 99% of the dealers will not let you walk out without you buying something,so I feel invoice is a fair price and screw the dealers because they could care little about us.......Jt

You are in for a big disappointment in this scenario then IMO. There's only three ways you pay invoice for the 2010 Camaro SS:

1) you wait until MY end and buy a left-over
2) GM screws up the pricing levels like they did with the GTO introduction and has to offer similar factory to dealer incentives
3) You, a family member, or real close friend, own a Chevy dealership.

From the supposed Feb introduction until April, dealer markups will be in effect;
from April to May MSRP;
June-Sep 500-1000 off;
Oct-Feb invoice to invoice +700.

I would guess that MSRP over invoice on the SS will be less than most think- probably in the $1700 range. Just my opinion.

Yea I don't think you will be able to pay invoice on a brand new model such as this unless they aren't selling at all. When I went to purchase my last vehicle, I offered 3% above invoice for the vehicle which is fair profit for them and fair price for me. They had little room to argue with me.

Well we are not in 2009 yettttttt
Lets say Oil prices are at $150 a barrel or more
What will people want to spend.
And lets not forget GM lost so far another 15 billions dollars
and not saying what they will lose 3 months from now?????
You really think GM will make a profit????
GM said they will not make a profit in 2009(I guess that means Camaros SS also???}
Yep dealers can charge whatever they want
But I am sure there will be TONS of Camaros SS on dealer lots and they will be crazy not to sell them at invoice otherwise they will just stay on their lots....
I will not mind paying a tad over Invoice on a Camaro SS ($200-$300}
But anything higher ,I am sure other dealers will do better......

Lets remember there are TONS on GM dealers within 1 hour from us.
And even less Toyota,Nissan and honda dealers.
So I think if many dealers will have a few Camaro SS on their lots I would think they would want to get rid of them in early 2009......You really think people are gong to run and buy them???I am sure there will be a few.
But most will look at the Stang Gts,Challengers Rts and then Camaros.
GM will make as many as they can
There will be as many as Camaro as Mustangs on the road.
The Camaro SS will not be a limited car by farrrrrrr.
To me limited is 2000 cars and under being made.................

Well we are not in 2009 yettttttt
Lets say Oil prices are at $150 a barrel or more
What will people want to spend.
And lets not forget GM lost so far another 15 billions dollars
and not saying what they will lose 3 months from now?????
You really think GM will make a profit????
GM said they will not make a profit in 2009(I guess that means Camaros SS also???}
Yep dealers can charge whatever they want
But I am sure there will be TONS of Camaros SS on dealer lots and they will be crazy not to sell them at invoice otherwise they will just stay on their lots....
I will not mind paying a tad over Invoice on a Camaro SS ($200-$300}
But anything higher ,I am sure other dealers will do better......

Lets remember there are TONS on GM dealers within 1 hour from us.
And even less Toyota,Nissan and honda dealers.
So I think if many dealers will have a few Camaro SS on their lots I would think they would want to get rid of them in early 2009......You really think people are gong to run and buy them???I am sure there will be a few.
But most will look at the Stang Gts,Challengers Rts and then Camaros.
GM will make as many as they can
There will be as many as Camaro as Mustangs on the road.
The Camaro SS will not be a limited car by farrrrrrr.
To me limited is 2000 cars and under being made.................

Please don't confuse the issues. I 100% hope you are right and you and I can get into new SS's dirt cheap. However, if you are, then the Camaro marketing campaign failed before it even started. Dealers will not order (or consign) vehicles to their lots that they can't make a profit on. They'll let the Camaros rot in some holding pen outside Oshawa and sell Malibus and Impalas with better MPG and better profit margins. Keep in mind that GM can't force the dealers to put any car on their lot.

That's when the factory to dealer incentives start raising their ugly heads from the sand, and GM (Chevy) takes DIRECT LOSSES to get the dealers to take possession of the discounted vehicles. Works in the short-term for people like you and me, but sinks GM farther into debt. We both know they can't afford that. They have too much invested in the Camaro at this point to have not done their homework on this one. IMO, the Camaro could actually have the power to make or break Chevy. This is a totally different ballgame from a 3-year GTO production run made overseas on a line already basically making the same car...

Yea I don't think you will be able to pay invoice on a brand new model such as this unless they aren't selling at all. When I went to purchase my last vehicle, I offered 3% above invoice for the vehicle which is fair profit for them and fair price for me. They had little room to argue with me.

a 3% profit margin is FAIR?? do you do this everywhere you go whenever you shop? do you not see ANY VALUE in what you buy? so if the camaro SS comes out at 25,000 MSRP, you don't think that's a good value? Your one of the reasons dealerships turn as bad as they do when it comes to customer service. You don't see value or service, you only see a price tag.

a 3% profit margin is FAIR?? do you do this everywhere you go whenever you shop? do you not see ANY VALUE in what you buy? so if the camaro SS comes out at 25,000 MSRP, you don't think that's a good value? Your one of the reasons dealerships turn as bad as they do when it comes to customer service. You don't see value or service, you only see a price tag.

You too have to be a little fair in your assessment. No, on the surface, a 3% profit margin doesn't seem fair to the dealership. However, keep in mind the "sacred" holdback money; in Chevy's case, 3%.

ref-> http://www.edmunds.com/advice/incentives/holdback/index.html

6%, or $1800 on a 30,000 car doesn't really sound abusive to either side. Personally, I don't think either side is being abused at 3-4% over invoice- sounds about right. If the cars are staying on dealer lots "too long" and thus costing the dealer inventory costs, either the invoice pricing was set wrong by the factory or the dealer isn't willing to deal to the public. In that case, the average Joe isn't to blame.

You too have to be a little fair in your assessment. No, on the surface, a 3% profit margin doesn't seem fair to the dealership. However, keep in mind the "sacred" holdback money; in Chevy's case, 3%.

ref-> http://www.edmunds.com/advice/incentives/holdback/index.html

6%, or $1800 on a 30,000 car doesn't really sound abusive to either side. Personally, I don't think either side is being abused at 3-4% over invoice- sounds about right. If the cars are staying on dealer lots "too long" and thus costing the dealer inventory costs, either the invoice pricing was set wrong by the factory or the dealer isn't willing to deal to the public. In that case, the average Joe isn't to blame.

I know all about hold back. I used to work at a dealership. Most of the time the hold back is ~$1,300, but it all depends on the car. The holdback is hardly even profit, it basically pays the maintenence, electricity, water, advertising and leasing of the land. The $500-$900 on the other end goes towards the Dealership (usually $300-$500) and then the rest goes to the General Manager, Desk Manager, Closer, finance manager, fleet manager, lot attendants, the car wash guys. And oh ya, let's not forget the sales guy.

a 3% profit margin is FAIR?? do you do this everywhere you go whenever you shop? do you not see ANY VALUE in what you buy? so if the camaro SS comes out at 25,000 MSRP, you don't think that's a good value? Your one of the reasons dealerships turn as bad as they do when it comes to customer service. You don't see value or service, you only see a price tag.

There are only 2 entities that count in determining whether a deal is fair, the buyer and the seller. You me and everybody else don't count. If the dealer didn't think 3% was fair they had all the power in the world to tell him to take a hike, but they didn't, so apparently they thought it was fair. A fair price is whatever the buyer and seller can agree to..

That being said, I think the new Camaro is going to be the one vehicle to make me break my "never pay MSRP" rule. I'll pay MSRP and smile while doing it. Of course I'm already socking money away in my "Camaro fund" so it won't hurt that bad. No car will ever make me break my "never pay over MSRP" rule though, the early adopter premium is just not for me...

Just to be clear, I never said paying invoice was fair to the dealership. If all the dealership could make was 3% selling a car (assuming selling at invoice), they may as well just close the dealership and put the money in tax-free municipal bonds. They'd make about the same rate and have absolutely no issues to contend with. They deserve to make money like the rest of us- risk vs reward- but to say they deserve MSRP on every vehicle sold just doesn't hold water either.

Everyone knows that it's a starting point for negotiations- including the dealers. Obviously the 3% "holdback" on a $20,000 (?) base model Camaro is only $600 vs the same 3% on a $70k Z06 Corvette being $2100 so there's more wiggle room as you move up to more expensive vehicles.

Assuming the MSRP / invoice difference on the base Camaro is $1300, we can also assume the associated difference on the Corvette is probably around $8000. You can't sit there with a straight face and tell anyone that the dealer should make $8k PLUS the $2100 holdback for selling a Corvette. If I was in the market for a Z06, I'd pay no more than invoice +2000. That's a total of $4100 to the plus for the dealership but still equates to only 5.7% profit based on MSRP.

Maybe I'm rambling a bit but I'm just trying to illustrate that actual dollar amounts vs. percentages vary greatly when comparing car models sold.

There are only 2 entities that count in determining whether a deal is fair, the buyer and the seller. You me and everybody else don't count. If the dealer didn't think 3% was fair they had all the power in the world to tell him to take a hike, but they didn't, so apparently they thought it was fair. A fair price is whatever the buyer and seller can agree to..

dealers don't always take the fair deal. they'll move a unit just to move a unit, even if it's a loser deal sometimes. it doesn't mean they thought it was "fair." there's a whole slew of reasons why they may take the deal, but that doesn't mean that they think it was "fair."

and everybody else does count. Burger king sells whoppers for ~$2.50, which they make for $0.30 cents. so the actual value is 31 cents then? the person making the burgers, the cashier, the manager, the custodian all shouldn't be factored in?

Just to be clear, I never said paying invoice was fair to the dealership. If all the dealership could make was 3% selling a car (assuming selling at invoice), they may as well just close the dealership and put the money in tax-free municipal bonds. They'd make about the same rate and have absolutely no issues to contend with. They deserve to make money like the rest of us- risk vs reward- but to say they deserve MSRP on every vehicle sold just doesn't hold water either.

Everyone knows that it's a starting point for negotiations- including the dealers. Obviously the 3% "holdback" on a $20,000 (?) base model Camaro is only $600 vs the same 3% on a $70k Z06 Corvette being $2100 so there's more wiggle room as you move up to more expensive vehicles.

Assuming the MSRP / invoice difference on the base Camaro is $1300, we can also assume the associated difference on the Corvette is probably around $8000. You can't sit there with a straight face and tell anyone that the dealer should make $8k PLUS the $2100 holdback for selling a Corvette. If I was in the market for a Z06, I'd pay no more than invoice +2000. That's a total of $4100 to the plus for the dealership but still equates to only 5.7% profit based on MSRP.

Maybe I'm rambling a bit but I'm just trying to illustrate that actual dollar amounts vs. percentages vary greatly when comparing car models sold.
you've just made my point. you dont see any VALUE in the car. In your eyes, the car is not worth it. all your seeing is $$ figures.

you've just made my point. you dont see any VALUE in the car. In your eyes, the car is not worth it. all your seeing is $$ figures.

And perhaps you see too much value in it. Beauty (value) is in the eye of the beholder as the saying goes. To me, the "arbitrary" value of the 70k Z06 is 64k, to you apparently it's closer to the 70k. Just because the Z06 MSRP is set at 70k doesn't mean it's worth it. If they raised the MSRP to 75k does the inherent value of the vehicle increase in your eyes?

And perhaps you see too much value in it. Beauty (value) is in the eye of the beholder as the saying goes. To me, the "arbitrary" value of the 70k Z06 is 64k, to you apparently it's closer to the 70k. Just because the Z06 MSRP is set at 70k doesn't mean it's worth it. If they raised the MSRP to 75k does the inherent value of the vehicle increase in your eyes?

you can flip it the same. if they raised the msrp from 70k to 75k, all of a sudden your "value" of the car goes from 64k to 69k for no reason?

Im not advocating paying MSRP because that's what it should be worth. Im saying pay what you think the car is WORTH as in VALUE. If the Camaro SS is $29k MSRP but you feel the car is inferior and not worthy of it, then go ahead and go for less. See the value in what your buying, not just the $$ amount. Too many people see the $$ amount and instantly want less for no reason without seeing the real value.

you can flip it the same. if they raised the msrp from 70k to 75k, all of a sudden your "value" of the car goes from 64k to 69k for no reason?

Im not advocating paying MSRP because that's what it should be worth. Im saying pay what you think the car is WORTH as in VALUE. If the Camaro SS is $29k MSRP but you feel the car is inferior and not worthy of it, then go ahead and go for less. See the value in what your buying, not just the $$ amount. Too many people see the $$ amount and instantly want less for no reason without seeing the real value.

I will say this:
I did (do) think the "value" of my 04 GTO far surpassed any GM product I owned in the past. Form, fit, function, hell even the seats are nicer than either of the Z28's I had. The interior rivals top imports (in the class) in my humble opinion. I had been waiting for something to kick me in the nuts to get rid of the 96 Z28 and the GTO was definitely it. BUT, while the GTO itself was "a better value" than what I was driving, I didn't think it was any screaming value deal at $33,700. When I got the email regarding $3500 factory to dealer incentives though, I was all about it at 30k and maybe saving another $1000 on top of that "playing the game". So for somewhere between 29k and 30k I was going to buy the car. I left paying 26 and change (+ttl). Whose fault is that?

dealers don't always take the fair deal. they'll move a unit just to move a unit, even if it's a loser deal sometimes. it doesn't mean they thought it was "fair." there's a whole slew of reasons why they may take the deal, but that doesn't mean that they think it was "fair."

I'll say this again. The definition of a "fair deal" is one that both the buyer and seller can agree to.

"Fair" is a bullsh*t word that people use to describe the deal they like best. Its so completely arbitrary a conecpt as to be meaningless. In the context of free exchange of goods/services/money, I would dare you to come up with a definition of "fair" that is not completely arbitrary. Whether you're talking raw dollars, percentages, or whatever, "fair" is in the eye of the beholder.

Lets assume for a second that you're my employer using your Burger King example below. I think it would be "fair" if my employer paid me $50/hour to come in to work the cash register, I mean crap I got bills to pay. By your arguments, Burger King should just pony up regardless of the relative value of the transaction. Now you and I both know thats not going to happen because from BKs perspective of value, that deal is anything but "fair." Whats going to happen is there will be a negotiation of sorts which will result in a "fair" solution in which I come to work for $7.50/hour, any less and the value is not enough for me to sell my labor and any more and its too much for BK to hire me.


and everybody else does count. Burger king sells whoppers for ~$2.50, which they make for $0.30 cents. so the actual value is 31 cents then? the person making the burgers, the cashier, the manager, the custodian all shouldn't be factored in?

Again "fair" is whatever they can convince people to pay for it, whether its $0.10 or $10. As the buyer, I don't give a d*mn what the seller's overhead is. Its NOT MY CONCERN. My only concern is the relative value I get from exchanging my money for the hamburger, ie I'm hungry, they have the burger, giving them $2.50 is less painful than being hungry, therefore from my perspective the relative value is high.

Your above example about dealers selling cars just to move a car falls into that framework. Whether people want to admit it or not, it costs money to have inventory sitting around, no matter what the business. When it comes to the choice of sell to the customer for a small loss or let the car sit for another 30, 60 or more days, the better value for the dealer is to get rid of the car. If it was not the better value and thus not "fair" by the definition I outlined above, they wouldn't sell the car.

This is really basic economics...

you can flip it the same. if they raised the msrp from 70k to 75k, all of a sudden your "value" of the car goes from 64k to 69k for no reason?

Im not advocating paying MSRP because that's what it should be worth. Im saying pay what you think the car is WORTH as in VALUE. If the Camaro SS is $29k MSRP but you feel the car is inferior and not worthy of it, then go ahead and go for less. See the value in what your buying, not just the $$ amount. Too many people see the $$ amount and instantly want less for no reason without seeing the real value.

TrickStang hit the nail right on the head, people are more worried about the $$ sign on the window than the product. If the Camaro SS came out with an MSRP of 20K some people would still want to pay 16K for it even though it would be built to 30++K standards.

........
This is really basic economics...

its basic psychology is what it is. People dont care about the economics of it at all they just want to pay less than whats on the window even if the car cost more to make than what theyre selling it for.

Im tired of people saying "well, ummm they have uh holdbacks and stuff" and then getting told what that holdback is for and how much profit really is made, then getting a reply like "uhh uhhh umm i dont care how much theyre making" when obviously they gave it thought when they hear the words holdback and other industry jargon.

TrickStang hit the nail right on the head, people are more worried about the $$ sign on the window than the product. If the Camaro SS came out with an MSRP of 20K some people would still want to pay 16K for it even though it would be built to 30++K standards.

I disagree. People, by the nature of car buying, are "set-up" for the buying experience long before they walk into a showroom, except in the Saturn "at price" example and even that is full of holes. Saturn had set out to sell at MSRP and did (does) but in most cases they'll up the value of your trade instead of discounting the MSRP. Is there really any difference?

In the example of someone wanting to buy the 20k (but should be 30k) Camaro for 16k, that's human nature and the dealerships caused it. Wanting to pay 16k is a lot different from walking out the door because you can't get to that number. Common sense kicks in, on both sides usually, and a "fair" ( I now hate that word ) deal is reached. I refuse to believe that they could rebadge a Corvette with an Aveo emblem and someone would SERIOUSLY say they would only pay the 18k (or whatever) Aveo price for it. By the same token, if the automaker marketed what should be a 30k car at 20k, shame on them, not on the buying public.

........
Again "fair" is whatever they can convince people to pay for it, whether its $0.10 or $10. As the buyer, I don't give a d*mn what the seller's overhead is. Its NOT MY CONCERN. My only concern is the relative value I get from exchanging my money for the hamburger, ie I'm hungry, they have the burger, giving them $2.50 is less painful than being hungry, therefore from my perspective the relative value is high....

their overhead isnt your concern but their profit is? So youre saying you ask for a discount below MSRP because you know youre buying an inferior product. I mean thats the only reason you would pay less than what something should be valued at correct?
Is this new camaro gonna be an inferior product from the get-go?
If this car came out with an MSRP of 25K would you still hassle them for a discount? if so, why? How much is the new camaro really worth in your eyes?

.............
In the example of someone wanting to buy the 20k (but should be 30k) Camaro for 16k, that's human nature and the dealerships caused it. Wanting to pay 16k is a lot different from walking out the door because you can't get to that number. Common sense kicks in, on both sides usually, and a "fair" ( I now hate that word ) deal is reached......

common sense would kick in? the buyer never had any if he or she didnt see the value in the car and STILL wanted to pay less than 20K. Thats what happens at dealerships, customers dont appreciate the value, they see the numbers and think discounts are the road to happiness.

their overhead isnt your concern but their profit is? So youre saying you ask for a discount below MSRP because you know youre buying an inferior product. I mean thats the only reason you would pay less than what something should be valued at correct?
Is this new camaro gonna be an inferior product from the get-go?
If this car came out with an MSRP of 25K would you still hassle them for a discount? if so, why? How much is the new camaro really worth in your eyes?

I will tell you here and now, sight unseen other than pictures and video, and obviously not knowing pricing levels, that I wouldn't hesitate to buy a loaded SS/RS for 32k. I could live with up to 34k regardless if that ends up being the MSRP or if I have to try to beat a couple thousand out of them to get there. Given the general quality of all the GM vehicles I've owned (with the exception of the GTO), I don't believe the car will warrant more money than that. Time will tell.

I have been buying Stang Gts,Tahoes and never paid over INVOICE
My 2006 Stang Gt was also Invoice while everyone else was getting Msrp or better,but that was when gas was at $2.00 a gal.
When the Camaro SS comes out pas prices will be $4 -$5 a gal or more.
I feel if one dealer does not want to deal with you,there will be another 50 dealers within 1 hours drive.But 99% of the dealers will not let you walk out without you buying something,so I feel invoice is a fair price and screw the dealers because they could care little about us.......Jt

granted that dealers are sometimes a bit pushy.....i agree on that. i hate that im just looking, im just looking. ive got 100 that says when the new camaro is out they wont be giving out free joy rides....but they might let me take a cobalt LT around for a bit...haha

their overhead isnt your concern but their profit is?

Where did I say their profit is my concern as the buyer? Its really not...


So youre saying you ask for a discount below MSRP because you know youre buying an inferior product. I mean thats the only reason you would pay less than what something should be valued at correct?

No thats not what I'm saying. The quality of the product is related to but distinct from the "value" an individual assigns to the product. It may be part of how they assign value but not necessarily.

Detach the idea of "value" from products altogether for a second. Say I work for a company and they pay me $50/hour. The company has made a value judgment that my time is worth at least and likely more than $50/hour. I've made a value judgement that my time is worth at least and likely less than $50/hour. Thus I come to work and get paid $50/hour, essentially selling my time for maximum value.

If suddenly another company calls me up and offers me $60/hour, then suddenly the definition of maximum value has changed. My percieved value of my time has now increased to $60/hour. In that case selliing my time for $50/hour when its worth $60/hour according to the other company, is not maximizing my value. In that case I'm probably going to quit and go work for the other company.

Going back to cars, if the value to the dealer is more than the value to you, regardless of the criteria used to determine "value" the transaction probably won't take place. The dealer can decide to depend on another customer coming with value ideas that are more in line with theirs.

In the case of the Camaro and the Mustang before it, thats probably a good bet at first and there will be support for dealer premiums for a few months. Right now in the case of full size trucks, thats not a good bet, hence one dealer in my area offering 42% off Dodge quad cabs.

In each case though, there's a tug of war between buyer and seller trying to maximize value while arriving at a price that both can live with. The end result is a "fair" price, that is by defintion, whatever price the buyer and seller can agree on.


Is this new camaro gonna be an inferior product from the get-go?
If this car came out with an MSRP of 25K would you still hassle them for a discount? if so, why? How much is the new camaro really worth in your eyes?

No indeed. I don't know how I gave that impression but I don't want anybody to think that I think its going to be a POS or anything. I've wanted one with a V8 under the hood ever since I got my '94 V6 10 years ago and wanted one even worse since I got rid of the '94...

As far as worth to me I thought I already said that in my first post in this thread...

That being said, I think the new Camaro is going to be the one vehicle to make me break my "never pay MSRP" rule. I'll pay MSRP and smile while doing it. Of course I'm already socking money away in my "Camaro fund" so it won't hurt that bad. No car will ever make me break my "never pay over MSRP" rule though, the early adopter premium is just not for me...

The value of the car to me is going to be at least MSRP simply because its got "Camaro" plastered on the side. GM says its worth MSRP and I can agree with that for a Camaro. In principle though I won't pay over MSRP just because I'm not going to give a "bonus" to the dealer for the privilege of selling me a car. Early adoption "fees", whether its a car, iphone or whatever are not for me.

Some people will though, in which case they and the dealer will come to an agreement on a "fair" price thats quite a bit more than my "fair" price. Where I "pay" is in time, in that I'm not the first guy on the block to have one...

Thats in contrast to both my truck and my wife's car. I paid right at invoice for both because thats what I decided the value was to me in the process of negotiation. The dealer and I were able to meet at a "fair" price point that maximized the value increase for both of us. If we couldn't get to that point either one of us could have and would have walked and the transaction wouldn't go through.

I am one of many that enjoy buying a Car every 2 or 3 years.
I have bought a 2006 Stang GT at INVOICE and thats all I was going to pay when 99% odfdealers wanted over MSRP when gas as a tad over $2.00 a Gal.
As for Value
I am sure many just like me that will buy a Camaro SS and buy it knowing that most will only keep it for 2 - 3 years only.
I am getting bored with the 2006 Stang Gt
I am also sure I will be bored with the 2010 Camaro SS within 2 years after I buy it.
Most like to buy cars(not Leased} every 2 years
Myself why would I want to walk into a showroom and not expect to pay Invoice on a camaro ss???
Yeaaa I have too play that Bullsh*t game with prices where the lame salesman walking back and forth to the salesmanager for 2 plus hours to make believe that they are working with me.
I feel screw the dealer and I am sure many feel the same way.
Years ago dealers got away with hiding the real price,but we have the internet and the dealers are getting screwed[Screw them I feel}
Now if the dealer don't want to deal with me with a INVOICE price on a 2010 camaro SS
with 2 or maybe 5 Camaro SS on their lot,I say screw them and I am sure that there are hundreds of GM dealers within 1 hour from where we live.
Whos to say GM will not flood the market?????
If I was GM and just lost 15 billion dollars and might be at BK7 next year
I would flood the market and see what happens............................

I am one of many that enjoy buying a Car every 2 or 3 years.
I have bought a 2006 Stang GT at INVOICE and thats all I was going to pay when 99% odfdealers wanted over MSRP when gas as a tad over $2.00 a Gal.
As for Value
I am sure many just like me that will buy a Camaro SS and buy it knowing that most will only keep it for 2 - 3 years only.
I am getting bored with the 2006 Stang Gt
I am also sure I will be bored with the 2010 Camaro SS within 2 years after I buy it.
Most like to buy cars(not Leased} every 2 years
Myself why would I want to walk into a showroom and not expect to pay Invoice on a camaro ss???
Yeaaa I have too play that Bullsh*t game with prices where the lame salesman walking back and forth to the salesmanager for 2 plus hours to make believe that they are working with me.
I feel screw the dealer and I am sure many feel the same way.
Years ago dealers got away with hiding the real price,but we have the internet and the dealers are getting screwed[Screw them I feel}
Now if the dealer don't want to deal with me with a INVOICE price on a 2010 camaro SS
with 2 or maybe 5 Camaro SS on their lot,I say screw them and I am sure that there are hundreds of GM dealers within 1 hour from where we live.
Whos to say GM will not flood the market?????
If I was GM and just lost 15 billion dollars and might be at BK7 next year
I would flood the market and see what happens............................

Then you my friend are one of the privileged or have a different set of priorities- neither of which is a bad thing. Very few households can afford new vehicles every 2-3 years; not the "many" as you seem to infer. The US mean income is something like 42k; no one is buying cars every 2-3 years on that. While my wife and I both work and make a comfortable 100k+ living, even we would have to cut somewhere to cycle through vehicles as you suggest. Maybe it would be as simple as only taking the family trip with the kids every other year instead of each year. A lot comes down to priorities in life. With me, my house (stable, comfortable, family home) is first, time with the family (including the yearly 1-2 wk vacation) is second, and yes, for me, the car comes no earlier than 3rd. I could easily make the car first, make it a Z06, a Viper, or a Ferrari for that matter by shuffling the deck a little. I could afford any of them but what suffers because of it? I could move into a 1200sf ranch, take vacations in the backyard and park my new Lamborghini Diablo out front and not spend a penny more than I do now. Difference being, I don't expect Lamborghini to sell me the car at cost so I can do it more comfortably.

Sorry for the rant; your statement of getting bored with cars, and simply getting another new one every two years or so, just rubbed me wrong when accompanied by the fact you think that on top of it all the dealer should bend over backwards to make next to nothing on the deal to please you.

Oh, and please show me anywhere in the US that there are hundreds of GM dealers within an hour of where you live. First off, if you're buying a Camaro, you only have the luxury of looking at how many CHEVY dealers are within an hour; the local Pontiac dealership isn't going to be able to get the "make no money" deal you're looking for- that's for sure. I have about 20 Chevy dealers within 100 mile radius of me. That's a far cry from hundreds within an hour.

Please don't take any of this as a personal attack; it isn't meant to come off like that. Just an observation that from my point of view, you expect to get something for nothing or somehow feel that because you had to put up with all the salesman BS that you should be compensated by getting the vehicle for what the dealership bought it for. I'm all for playing the game with the dealership and playing the "meet in the middle" game. That's what's fair- your line of thought is not. Just my .02

I am one of many that enjoy buying a Car every 2 or 3 years.
I have bought a 2006 Stang GT at INVOICE and thats all I was going to pay when 99% odfdealers wanted over MSRP when gas as a tad over $2.00 a Gal.
As for Value
I am sure many just like me that will buy a Camaro SS and buy it knowing that most will only keep it for 2 - 3 years only.
I am getting bored with the 2006 Stang Gt
I am also sure I will be bored with the 2010 Camaro SS within 2 years after I buy it.
Most like to buy cars(not Leased} every 2 years
Myself why would I want to walk into a showroom and not expect to pay Invoice on a camaro ss???
Yeaaa I have too play that Bullsh*t game with prices where the lame salesman walking back and forth to the salesmanager for 2 plus hours to make believe that they are working with me.
I feel screw the dealer and I am sure many feel the same way.
Years ago dealers got away with hiding the real price,but we have the internet and the dealers are getting screwed[Screw them I feel}
Now if the dealer don't want to deal with me with a INVOICE price on a 2010 camaro SS
with 2 or maybe 5 Camaro SS on their lot,I say screw them and I am sure that there are hundreds of GM dealers within 1 hour from where we live.
Whos to say GM will not flood the market?????
If I was GM and just lost 15 billion dollars and might be at BK7 next year
I would flood the market and see what happens............................

if your any good with money, you sound pretty stingy, why not just lease? why pay tax on the complete purchase instead of the time used/depriciation? you can probably save more money on that alone than going straight to invoice. please don't tell me your making cash purchases on these cars, and if your financing, the bank owns it anyways so leasing wouldn't change anything on that part.

I am one of many that enjoy buying a Car every 2 or 3 years.
I have bought a 2006 Stang GT at INVOICE and thats all I was going to pay when 99% odfdealers wanted over MSRP when gas as a tad over $2.00 a Gal.
As for Value
I am sure many just like me that will buy a Camaro SS and buy it knowing that most will only keep it for 2 - 3 years only.
I am getting bored with the 2006 Stang Gt
I am also sure I will be bored with the 2010 Camaro SS within 2 years after I buy it.
Most like to buy cars(not Leased} every 2 years
Myself why would I want to walk into a showroom and not expect to pay Invoice on a camaro ss???
Yeaaa I have too play that Bullsh*t game with prices where the lame salesman walking back and forth to the salesmanager for 2 plus hours to make believe that they are working with me.
I feel screw the dealer and I am sure many feel the same way.
Years ago dealers got away with hiding the real price,but we have the internet and the dealers are getting screwed[Screw them I feel}
Now if the dealer don't want to deal with me with a INVOICE price on a 2010 camaro SS
with 2 or maybe 5 Camaro SS on their lot,I say screw them and I am sure that there are hundreds of GM dealers within 1 hour from where we live.
Whos to say GM will not flood the market?????
If I was GM and just lost 15 billion dollars and might be at BK7 next year
I would flood the market and see what happens............................

:lol: I seems to find your post always interesting.

Ha Ha Ha
as I said I must have at least 100 dealers within 1 hour from me.
I live in Pa
So I have all southern Philly and all northern pa and Most of NJ and some parts of NY.
Hummm I would think there is al Least 100 dealer,well maybe 90 lol.
Reason I never leased was because before I retired at age 45,I used to drive to and from NYC and put about 200 miles on the car aday...
So if I leased a car there would be about 70,000 over the limit in miles and think I would get screwed when I trade the car in with the extra miles.
So thats why I bought cars every 2 -3 years
Because I need to get to work with a reliable car at that time.
But now I bought a 2006 Stang Gt with I think it has aroiund 28,000 miles on it and I hate to have a car without a warentty when it ends in Oct.
When I bought the 2006 Stang Gt
It cost $28,000 at invoice
I think I paid 19,000 cash down and paid the rest within 6 months.I hate paying interest.
With the Camaro I would use the Stang Gt as a tradein and maybe I will get $14,000 for it and the rest I will pay cash.
As for the Tax????
In Pa. if you tradein your old car and buy a new car.The taxes on the new car will be alot lower because you paid tax on the older car.
I am not sure how it works but whenever I traded in a car,on the new car the taxes would always be lower....

Ohhhhh I do agree with you
The Family comes first and so does the house.
You can take the kids on vacation in your new camaro around the block a few times lol.
Yep if you are only getting 2 weeks a year,I know a vacation would be high on the list.
When I worked.
Vacation was everyday lol
When it rained I would call sick and when it snowed I would take the whole winter off.
I told my bosses how can I get to work in the snow in a mustang lol.
Thats the benefits when working for the city of NY.
I know if I woked for a private company I would have gor fired lol.....Jt

i went to my local dealer yesterday asking about the camaro pricing.no info exept no mark up whoo-hoo and then i am one of the lucky ones i get gm discount i also heard from berger chevrolet they are doing a special verson of the camaro just like they did in the old days but they are only doing 30 or so they are probly spoken for already.my camaro will be rs/ss rally yellow black racing stripes with l99 auto

I talked to the GM at Polar Chev here in MN about the new Camaro and Specifically a vert. I told him I would not pay more than $500 over invoice and he agreed to it. This was about 1 1/2 years ago. I still have the email and will bring it in when I order it next December for my 40th bday. Shop around there is more than one dealer out there that will not try to take advantage of you.

I talked to the GM at Polar Chev here in MN about the new Camaro and Specifically a vert. I told him I would not pay more than $500 over invoice and he agreed to it. This was about 1 1/2 years ago. I still have the email and will bring it in when I order it next December for my 40th bday. Shop around there is more than one dealer out there that will not try to take advantage of you.

unless he agreed on a specific date he will sell you that car, that quote is useless. Maybe youll get $500 over invoice EVENTUALLY when/if they have trouble selling the car much later after its release, but theyre not gonna give you that price when theyre going to be selling it for much more than that (understandibly so) to thousands upon thousands of customers that will be willing to pay thousands upon thousands more than youre offer.Sorry to say but $$$ talks and 500 over invoice is barely a whisper, especially with a car that is all but guaranteed to move a lot of units.

BTW. Selling a car at MSRP is not taking advantage of anyone.

Ever take into account that the cars will start rolling in around Feb? How many people are seriously car buying in the winter (in the North)? For those of us in "cold" states, we may actually have an advantage jumping in early. Cars here will sit on lots until late April/Early May when the weather breaks. Of course there are die-hards like most of us here that really don't care if they have to drive the new Camaro home in Feb in Buffalo in 18" of snow... but really, WE don't reflect the masses.

You will be able to get the Camaro SSfor Invoice if you want to look at more then one dealer,you might have to try a few.
Don't listen to most on here because they are salesmen and know they might be out of a job if GM goes out of business next year.
Trust me GM will make TONS of Camaros and TONS of camaro SS also...Most will make you believe that the Camaro SS will be limited lol.They will make as many Camaros as Ford makes Mustangs,,,,Geeeeeeee does not sound like a rare car too me.If you want something more limited get a Vette,Viper or a yugo
Dealers will have plenty of camaros when they first come out early next year.
Invoices sounds like a fair price since GM is in soooo much trouble,,,,,I guess the folks on here that sells GMs don't want you to know they are a problem company for the next 2 years without making a profit.....Jt:yes:

Ever take into account that the cars will start rolling in around Feb? How many people are seriously car buying in the winter (in the North)?

That is when production ramps up (Feb 16th from what I've read), you won't start seeing cars in the lots until March probably, especially in the North for that very reason.

Actually Polar Chev is a one stop price dealer. Typically they are below everybody else and about $500 over invoice. There sales people are on salary not commission and the one I am going to deal with used to be my neighbor. They are a high volume dealer that can discount cars. I have no problem with them and for my understanding they are going into production on Dec. 9th 2009.
I am willing to buy in the winter and wait till May to take delivery. Heck they can keep it on their showroom floor for all I care.

Actually Polar Chev is a one stop price dealer. Typically they are below everybody else and about $500 over invoice. There sales people are on salary not commission and the one I am going to deal with used to be my neighbor. They are a high volume dealer that can discount cars. I have no problem with them and for my understanding they are going into production on Dec. 9th 2009.
I am willing to buy in the winter and wait till May to take delivery. Heck they can keep it on their showroom floor for all I care.

Not a snowballs chance in hell. Even roped off, when the "new" style Corvette came out a couple years ago, one of the local Chevy dealers I was buying a company truck at, had one in their showroom with a nice scratch down the right rear quarter. I don't want to hear, "don't worry, it'll be good as new when you take possession..." NO WAY. Not for sticker, not for $1000 off, not for invoice.

Yea hit the nail on the head........
When I buy my camaro ss,I want it that day and not a day later.
They have it on the lots ,I am taking it home with me........