LS1 faster then TTA?

Okay guys---head over to the lounge and check out page 6 and 7 of "Is the Formula the fastest F-body" and read my posts.

Theres a few there who think the TTA can match an LS1---esp
accelerating as hard at really high speeds.

No way---no how

0-130 for a TTA is about 30 secs
0-130 for an LS1 about 22

They think just casue the 1/4 is close the TTA will stay with an LS1
accelerating at high speeds.

If you think so to--give me some support.
I tried to support with facts and inna rqational manner---maybe they aren't rational people?:rolleyes:

bone stock ls1's have gone 12's and made over 300rwhp..

the TTA does not do either in stock form... its pretty simple math actually.

most people just arent very well enformed

This is already going on in the lounge...

"Waiter, could I have a lock, and a glass of water?"

Originally posted by PhantomTA
bone stock ls1's have gone 12's and made over 300rwhp..

the TTA does not do either in stock form... its pretty simple math actually.

most people just arent very well enformed

Seen two TTA's go 12's bone stock, HP doesn't get you to the other end torque does. Any LS1 doesn't even come close to a TTA's rwtq #'s. Dyno's don't measure HP. (Unless you ask a Supra owner.);) HP is a pretty simple math calc. of torque.

02' f body over the 89 tta no doubt. if the tta was on slicks it may be different, but the tires on the tta didn't allow for much of a launch let alone outpulling an LS1 on the big end.

Originally posted by 1BADDAM
Seen two TTA's go 12's bone stock, HP doesn't get you to the other end torque does. Any LS1 doesn't even come close to a TTA's rwtq #'s. Dyno's don't measure HP. (Unless you ask a Supra owner.);) HP is a pretty simple math calc. of torque.

so what are the rwtq # put down by bone stock unmodded TTA's?

The problem here is with the definition of stock. In bone stock showroom condition, the LS1 is faster. With a few free/cheap mods, the TTA, like many turbo cars, can be made faster. A swapped out chip and race fuel is not stock.

The TTA wont go 12's without a tire and slight mods

Does the wastegate hose 'falling off' count as a mod?

I'm waiting for a TTA guy to come in here and tell us about one going 12's stock.

The Corvettes of the day were how fast stock? L98 power....14.0?

Sure, the TTA's were faster, but how much faster?

They were upper 13 second cars stock, at least stock as it was defined in the early 90's. I have even seen one running low 14's back in about 1990. :cry:

I am not trying to flame the TTA, I think it is the perfect pony car.

Originally posted by robvas
Does the wastegate hose 'falling off' count as a mod? LOL, of course it does.Originally posted by robvas
I'm waiting for a TTA guy to come in here and tell us about one going 12's stock. That won't be long I just put a link from that message thread to here.

Horsepower does count though. If it didn't we would all have 600+rwtq deisel motors.

I stil don't know why we are argueing over this.

Hi-psi said that Pontiac claimed the cars made 301rwhp and at least 380rwtq before they shipped them to the dealers. The turbo makes for monster torque as do most power adders.

I'm sure this could be verified at a site like gnttype.org, but I seem to recall a road test on a TTA (stock) from that time and the car ran 13.30's at 106 or so. That's comparable to an LS1.
As far as accelerating past the 1/4 mile, I don't know. Turbo cars generally don't like to run at WOT for extended periods.

almost every response is about quarter mile times. The original post admits they are close to the quarter mile, but after that the LS1 wins.

If an showroom stock LS1 can top 171 mph than yeh It is faster. During trial runs at Indy in 89' that is what the TTA was clocked at in the straights. Quicker? Even myself owning a TTA, bought new, I would have to say on average, LS1's would be quicker in the 1/4. 0-60, TTA all the way. I haven't seen any test of an LS1 reaching 60 better than 4.6 seconds. JMO

i'd like to see the test with the tta doing 4.6 to 60 on it's stock gatorbacks and as for top speed, the 320hp ss was clocked at 167 with everything stock except the rev limiter was moved up on an m6 model. the official posted top speed of the tta was like 160 or 162 which is what the m6 models with LS1 will do. another thing to consider, the LS1 doesn't require boosting up at the line to get good numbers as a tta does which is difficult to do on the street. not that i don't really like the tta, i've worked on them and driven them. they are great, but the turbo lag sucks as well as a few other parts. for it's time, there wasn't much out there to compete with it.

http://www.gtasourcepage.com/8920thTACDReview.html

Our test car scorched the drag strip with a 0-60-mph blast of 4.6 seconds and a quarter-mile run of 13.4 seconds at 101 mph.

101mph! Beware LT1's!

The rush is so strong that the turbo Trans Am reaches 130 mph in just 30.2 seconds.

Considering a stock LS1 can easily hit 110 in 15 seconds, would it take 15 more seconds to do another 20mph?

Thus freed, the turbocharged 3.8-liter V6 is able to push the Trans Am all the way up to 153 mph

Again, beware LT1's

Pontiac’s output claims for the V6 are exceedingly modest: 250 hp at 4400 rpm and 340 pound-feet of torque at 2800 rpm. Judging by our performance figures, we estimate that the engine produces closer to 300 hp.

The LS1 makes ~ 350hp







Originally posted by 1BADDAM
http://www.gtasourcepage.com/8920thTACDReview.html

Originally posted by chuck
The problem here is with the definition of stock. In bone stock showroom condition, the LS1 is faster. With a few free/cheap mods, the TTA, like many turbo cars, can be made faster. A swapped out chip and race fuel is not stock. Not true unless the LS1 will break the 171 mph barrier in factory stock trim. This is what the actual pace car was clocked at on the Indy track before the race in 1989. You guys have heard of the Indy 500 right?

TTA's came fully loaded with automatic transmissions so compare the two exactly (not to a stripped down manual LS1).

Ignorance is bliss...

Indy pace cars are rarely stock.

Pace car got 171, test car in the article posted got 153. Thats quite a difference between totaly stock vehicles. Sorry, I dont buy it.

Though I doubt it would take much of anything to get that much improvement on a turbo car.

I have not seen the article about the tta pace car being clocked at 171mph, but I know that the Car and Driver program said the 89 tta was one of a few cars that was totally stock and a pace car. Car and Driver said it was the fastest Trans Am they had tested to date, the 89 TTA I am talking about. They said that the pace car was a bone stock TTA, but I have not seen the 171mph test so I do not have any say on that. I am taking all of this knowledge from Car and Driver. I think they said the tta ran 13.2 and the anniversary 2002 Trans Am ran 13.6 when they tested all the trans ams. I am not sure and this is all from the car and driver show.

Originally posted by Freak
Indy pace cars are rarely stock.

Pace car got 171, test car in the article posted got 153. Thats quite a difference between totaly stock vehicles. Sorry, I dont buy it.

Though I doubt it would take much of anything to get that much improvement on a turbo car. Buy it or not, the TTA was the 1st car in Indy history to run as a pace car completely 100% factory original with NO mods. Unless you count the addition of strobe lights as performance modifications. This is a well documented fact.

Originally posted by PhantomTA
bone stock ls1's have gone 12's and made over 300rwhp..

the TTA does not do either in stock form... its pretty simple math actually.

most people just arent very well enformed Ok, here's your proof. Video of an LS1 getting smoked by a TTA:

http://www.krif.com/tta/Movies/blake_vs_jim__ls1_tta.mpg

Come one dude....yeah both of those cars were bone stock?!:rolleyes:

The most awsome part about that vid was seeing all those TTA's in a line!

I love the TTA and in fact I may buy and restore one some day. Lets face it the TTA was under rated and so are the LS1's. But how do you compare apples to apples here with the LS1 having both 6M and A4 with 2 diff. gear ratios to choose from.

My opinon having driven a TTA and owning a '02 SS 6M I would say that the SS would win the 1/4 and the first to 150+ MPH. But really we should be comparing the WS6 to the TTA.

The fact remains though, an 02 WS6 will lay down 300-320 rwhp, the TTA somewhere around 280-300.

After watching that video i would call that not really getting smoked ... i wouldn't even call that a race the Ls1 didn't even launch hah

Probably a bad driver as well? :confused:

Originally posted by XKnightRider
Come one dude....yeah both of those cars were bone stock?!:rolleyes:

The most awsome part about that vid was seeing all those TTA's in a line!

I love the TTA and in fact I may buy and restore one some day. Lets face it the TTA was under rated and so are the LS1's. But how do you compare apples to apples here with the LS1 having both 6M and A4 with 2 diff. gear ratios to choose from.

My opinon having driven a TTA and owning a '02 SS 6M I would say that the SS would win the 1/4 and the first to 150+ MPH. But really we should be comparing the WS6 to the TTA.

The fact remains though, an 02 WS6 will lay down 300-320 rwhp, the TTA somewhere around 280-300. I'll agree with you the LS1 engine makes a few more ponies, but it doesn't come close in the torque number, and torque wins street races. Then again, the TTA topped out at Indy in 1989 at 171mph too....hmmmm.

Originally posted by 02 NBM TA
After watching that video i would call that not really getting smoked ... i wouldn't even call that a race the Ls1 didn't even launch hah

Probably a bad driver as well? :confused: Neither did the TTA...trust me.

As far as them being stock, who's to say either is or isn't??

Originally posted by TT/A1233
I'll agree with you the LS1 engine makes a few more ponies, but it doesn't come close in the torque number, and torque wins street races. Then again, the TTA topped out at Indy in 1989 at 171mph too....hmmmm.

Not even close huh....wanna see my stock dyno sheet w/ only 1200 miles on the car I put down 318rwhp and 330 rwtq.

It was my understanding that the TTA was rated 300hp 340tq and that was flywheel. Even if it's rear wheel it's close!:cool:

I haven't topped my SS out yet so I'm not sure on that one. But the TTA was listed as 161MPH so was this car a ringer? Was it absolutly stock down to the computer program....we'll never know!

Originally posted by XKnightRider
Not even close huh....wanna see my stock dyno sheet w/ only 1200 miles on the car I put down 318rwhp and 330 rwtq.

It was my understanding that the TTA was rated 300hp 340tq and that was flywheel. Even if it's rear wheel it's close!:cool:

I haven't topped my SS out yet so I'm not sure on that one. But the TTA was listed as 161MPH so was this car a ringer? Was it absolutly stock down to the computer program....we'll never know! 340 rwtq huh? Very odd since mine dynoed at 397 ft/lbs on a chassis dyno. I'd say 67 ft./lbs. is sizeable. Different magazines had different top TTA speeds in their tests such as 166, 159 mph etc. on their courses with their drivers. At Indy with a "real" driver on a "real" track one of the 3 actual pace cars (all still completely original and untouched) hit 171.3 mph in the Indy straights with a professional race driver behind the wheel. End of story. For a refresher press PLAY and review the video a few posts up.

Case dismissed! :Owned:

Nighty night......

Originally posted by TT/A1233
340 rwtq huh? Very odd since mine dynoed at 397 ft/lbs on a chassis dyno. I'd say 67 ft./lbs. is sizeable. Different magazines had different top TTA speeds in their tests such as 166, 159 mph etc. on their courses with their drivers. At Indy with a "real" driver on a "real" track one of the 3 actual pace cars (all still completely original and untouched) hit 171.3 mph in the Indy straights with a professional race driver behind the wheel. End of story. For a refresher press PLAY and review the video a few posts up.

Case dismissed! :Owned:

Nighty night......

hmmm, you show in your sig "1.83 60' street tires" .. what do you call street tires? Drag radials? they are street legal.. or ET STREETS? very vague.. and your dyno run, were you bone stock? how many miles? I am not flaming, just want facts..


as for the video above.. there are no facts to gain from it.. was not on a track and there is nothing known about either car.. moreover if he camera were being held by anyone in my car which is bone stock (I take the MTI lid off) they couldnt hold it that still.. ohh but I am an M6 so I will have to use my 1995 A4 Z28.. Stock it too would hit hard 2nds.. so who knows huh?

Originally posted by TT/A1233
340 rwtq huh? Very odd since mine dynoed at 397 ft/lbs on a chassis dyno. I'd say 67 ft./lbs. is sizeable. Different magazines had different top TTA speeds in their tests such as 166, 159 mph etc. on their courses with their drivers. At Indy with a "real" driver on a "real" track one of the 3 actual pace cars (all still completely original and untouched) hit 171.3 mph in the Indy straights with a professional race driver behind the wheel. End of story. For a refresher press PLAY and review the video a few posts up.

Case dismissed! :Owned:

Nighty night......

What bed time for you already!:o

397rwtq----please post dyno sheet- and do you swear that was bone stock down to the paper filter? And internal oil of the engine. Stock has a broad meaning!

I find it interseting that you have 67ft/lb more TQ than me and you only trap 104 and 12.9 and there is no way you pulled a 1.83 on gaterbacks:bs: where's your vid on that one. Granted I am not the best driver but I have trouble pulling 1.8's on the ET streets!

Bone stock( tire pressure and paper filter) I ran a 13.3 at 107.9 with a 2.18 60' on a 80+ degree night at near sea level. Your times are with no cats and a chip!:Owned:

It's no use watching your vid cuz we don't know what either car had. I can sit here an post vids of my SS roasting z06 vetts but who really cares.

All throttle....then the bottle = 11.8's for me!:D

My 12.93 and 1.83 60' was done with Firestone Firehawk FP street tires at standard tire pressure. No air was added or removed from that of everyday driving.

The dyno was run at the Hot Rod Power Tour when they were in town. I hadn't owned my T/A long prior to it's run and I can't remember if I had the DP on it or not. It would have had 9k-10k on the clock and believe it had the computer chip. The listed mods are the ONLY performance mods on my car. A prior owner added a fuel rail FP gauge, but that's not a performance mod. The rest of the entire car is bone stock original even the restrictive air box. 5hit, it had the original 20th Anniversary spark plug wires. Here's an up close engine photo:
http://www.krif.com/tta/TTA/tta%20engine%203.JPG

The day of the dyno run the computer was pulling the throttle back at WOT. I later found out the O2 sensor was going bad and changed that so I believe my power #'s were low. The graph looked like Mount Everest (up-down) due to throttle being pulled, that's since been fixed.

On a side note I refuse to believe, as stated before in this post, that a Turbo T/A requires 17 more seconds to gain just 25 MPH. That's simply LAUGHABLE. Indy requires a superior level of acceleration from 80-120 mph to pace Indy cars when the green flag drops. The TTA was able to do it in factory stock trim, A/C included.

Originally posted by TT/A1233
Buy it or not, the TTA was the 1st car in Indy history to run as a pace car completely 100% factory original with NO mods. Unless you count the addition of strobe lights as performance modifications. This is a well documented fact.

well documented hu? then how do you suppose the 78 and 86 Corvettes managed to slip by this "documentation"? they were both suposedly bone stock as well. dosent sound like your documentation is worth the paper its printed on

top speed has much more to do with HP to drag than with Tq to weight as in acceleration. Id bet the newer F bods are more aerodynamic than the 89's. and so far no one has disputed they make less HP than an LS1. so it simpy doesnt add up. unless they make more power at about 4800-5000 RPM than the LS1 does at 5200-5300 RPM (this is about what RPMs each car would be at at the indicated top speeds) and no one has spoken up about this yet.

and since we are talking about all LS1s vs the TTA, perhaps we should bring Corvettes into this discussion. they are even more aerodynamic, and lighter, so they should be both quicker int he 1/4 and have a higher top end than the f bodies

anyway, if top speed is as driver dependant as you would like us to belive, then we are going to have to wait untill someone with equal skills does a test of an LS1. Of course we could just use C&D for both of them. 153 for the TTA, 162 for the 99 WS6 Vert (banging the rev limiter)

Originally posted by Freak
well documented hu? then how do you suppose the 78 and 86 Corvettes managed to slip by this "documentation"? they were both suposedly bone stock as well. dosent sound like your documentation is worth the paper its printed on

top speed has much more to do with HP to drag than with Tq to weight as in acceleration. Id bet the newer F bods are more aerodynamic than the 89's. and so far no one has disputed they make less HP than an LS1. so it simpy doesnt add up. unless they make more power at about 4800-5000 RPM than the LS1 does at 5200-5300 RPM (this is about what RPMs each car would be at at the indicated top speeds) and no one has spoken up about this yet.

and since we are talking about all LS1s vs the TTA, perhaps we should bring Corvettes into this discussion. they are even more aerodynamic, and lighter, so they should be both quicker int he 1/4 and have a higher top end than the f bodies

anyway, if top speed is as driver dependant as you would like us to belive, then we are going to have to wait untill someone with equal skills does a test of an LS1. Of course we could just use C&D for both of them. 153 for the TTA, 162 for the 99 WS6 Vert (banging the rev limiter) Yep, I guess you're right and Pontiac Motor Division, The Indianapolis 500, TNN and Car & Driver are wrong. View the mpeg below from Car and Driver/TNN and pay particular attention for the 1st seven seconds. Last I knew 1989 came after 1978 and '86 making this video the latest info available contradiciting your "facts". What's more interesting is the fact Pontiac and Indy chose their 3 TTA pace cars at RANDOM from the pack of 1500 made, threw strobes on'em and off they went. Neither year Corvette you site can claim this, I've checked.

http://www.krif.com/tta/Movies/TTA.mpeg
http://www.krif.com/tta/TTA/Indy%20page%201.jpg
http://www.krif.com/tta/TTA/Indy%20page%202.jpg

Using your driver parity logic your driver with equal skills needs to drive cars equally optioned too. As stated before TTA's were all fully loaded with 4 speed autos (no choices but t-tops and leather seats). Grab a fully loaded non-vert, auto LS1 and top it out, it ain't hittin' 162. Believe the lower of the several documented tops speeds for the TTA top end, how very convienent. You're forgetting one important factor in your "logic".......gearing. Take a guess which car has the "highway" gear? I'll help you out, one has a 3.27:1 and the other has a 3.42:1. Strange thing is the car w/the highway gear also gets to the 1320' mark quicker. Hmmm.....

No sense in replying, you'd just be pandering to the non-beliving audience in here. We agree to disagree and you can't seem so believe videos and photos. You probably think OJ was innocent in the face of overwhelming physical evidence too.

Ciao....

it doesn't take skill to top a car out. Just a little bit of balls and some open road.

I've got a non-vert, auto LS1, I don't have any options, but I'll carry a passenger for some weight.

Wanna bet it'll hit 162?


Using your driver parity logic your driver with equal skills needs to drive cars equally optioned too. As stated before TTA's were all fully loaded with 4 speed autos (no choices but t-tops and leather seats). Grab a fully loaded non-vert, auto LS1 and top it out, it ain't hittin' 162.

Manuals generally come in 3.42's, since we are making a comparison of automagics, the majority (possibly all) of those come with 2.73's and 3.23's. I am also a believer that the average running LS1 bone stock would outrun a bone stock TTA. I attribute some of this to tires.. but the car definately has less power. The gearing should be pretty similar. Take $200 and mod both cars though, and I think the TTA would be the winner.

Basically, this boils down to the TTA being a faster street racer, and LS-1s being better in the high end. Even my 305 tpi Iroc when it was slightly modded (exhaust) would outrun my LS-1 in a street race. Torque rules the streets....so do the TTAs. But any race after 60, and an LS-1 will walk a TTA.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TT/A1233
[B]My 12.93 and 1.83 60' was done with Firestone Firehawk FP street tires at standard tire pressure. No air was added or removed from that of everyday driving.

I hadn't owned my T/A long prior to it's run and I can't remember if I had the DP on it or not. It would have had 9k-10k on the clock and believe it had the computer chip. The listed mods are the ONLY performance mods on my car.

That's the only performance mods huh...well I ONLY have A lid, headers and a 150shot:rolleyes:

Now you can't remeber if you had the DP....what :bs: \

Your car was NOT stock when you dyno'd and 1/4'd that's the facts jack...so all bets are off.

Still you could post the dyno sheet, or better yet your times slip with the 1.8 60' (you must have had glue on your street tires).....:rolleyes:

Originally posted by guywidiroc
Even my 305 tpi Iroc when it was slightly modded (exhaust) would outrun my LS-1 in a street race. Torque rules the streets....so do the TTAs.


Lemme get this straight, you think that a 305 TPI w/ exhaust is going to make more torque than an LS1 (stock)?

Not even an L98 would make the torque (peak) an LS1 does, it would probably be pretty close but the LS1 would come out on top. LS1 vs L98



An LS1'd 4th gen. would make a 305 TPI'd 3rd gen. look silly in a street race.

96SFLZ......Wooooaaaaaa....
I never said that I could ever out run my LS-1 in the high with my Iroc. But since my Iroc is a stick, and has about 360 ft/lb with a few mods (it has headers and more but I didnt want to get off the topic), and lots of gear it comes out of the hole way faster with a 3000 rpm dump. Do you know what a street race is? Its up to about 40 mph. Until about 30, my particular 13.4 Ls-1 doesnt do all that well(1.9 60 ft). But these cars are serious after that. So yes, my Iroc will hop out in front of my LS-1 with ease until 40 or so......then the lack of hp hurts big time.


Dont attack me, cause I love my LS-1 too, but you shouldnt talk without more knowledge. Despite the torque differences anyway....how could a car that traps at 13.4 @106mph car make any 14.4 @99.8 mph car look silly in only 4 seconds?? During my 98,00, and 02 Ls-1's, I happen to have a little experience with them.

THis is not a TPI vs LS-1....dont make it that. Just two diff cars with two diff advantages.

Originally posted by TT/A1233
My 12.93 and 1.83 60' was done with Firestone Firehawk FP street tires at standard tire pressure. No air was added or removed from that of everyday driving.

The dyno was run at the Hot Rod Power Tour when they were in town. I hadn't owned my T/A long prior to it's run and I can't remember if I had the DP on it or not. It would have had 9k-10k on the clock and believe it had the computer chip. The listed mods are the ONLY performance mods on my car. A prior owner added a fuel rail FP gauge, but that's not a performance mod. The rest of the entire car is bone stock original even the restrictive air box. 5hit, it had the original 20th Anniversary spark plug wires. Here's an up close engine photo:
http://www.krif.com/tta/TTA/tta%20engine%203.JPG

The day of the dyno run the computer was pulling the throttle back at WOT. I later found out the O2 sensor was going bad and changed that so I believe my power #'s were low. The graph looked like Mount Everest (up-down) due to throttle being pulled, that's since been fixed.

On a side note I refuse to believe, as stated before in this post, that a Turbo T/A requires 17 more seconds to gain just 25 MPH. That's simply LAUGHABLE. Indy requires a superior level of acceleration from 80-120 mph to pace Indy cars when the green flag drops. The TTA was able to do it in factory stock trim, A/C included.

So what your saying is that you ran12.9 with your modded turbo trans am while there a LS1's running 12.9's off the showroom floor.Aftermarket chips make a HUGE diffrence in those Buick engines.
I've read quite a few road tests back in '89 of TTA's and they ran mid 13's.No one even ran low 13's.
On the street Its a close call so it'll come down to better the driver

----------------
'88 Saleen- 9.3@145 shooting for 8's this spring
'89 Steeda- 12.5@112 N/A have 150hp NOS
'95 Saleen S351- stock
'00 T/A-M6,hurst,MTI lid,Borla,KB DD SFC's,17' TT II's
my site www.renegadesaleen.com

this sure doesn't boil down to the tta being a better street racer. ever tried to race with a turbo car without having time to boost it up first??? as for the dyno numbers on the torque side, as everyone into auto LS1's have found out, with a higher stall such as is on the TTA, your torque numbers are outragous. it's the tc that gains you most of that torque number. i've most certainly driven both and an auto LS1 equipped f body would outrun a TTA as well as obviously the m6. from a similar source, the ss camaro with an M6 and the rev limiter moved up (2000 year) was able to go 167mph top speed. btw, firestone's, are not factory on a tta so you can't call that stock. i'm sure there are many firehawk owners that would be all over volunteering to run anyone with a stock TTA.

Street race to 40?

Who even has traction under 40?

The only guys who race to 40 are WRX/Talon drivers who get a 2 car jump on you at the light, then shut it down before you can blast by them.

It's common knowledge that a TTA running equal 1/4 et's will trap about 3-5 mph less. I have no doubt the LS1 will pull in the mid to upper range(3rd gear is a killer), However a TTA at full boost for a sustained period will surpass the 160 mark easily. To those quoting et's from mags. Most of the cars run are broken in already(usually press cars) and when a mag does testing track prep is the utmost concern. 10 gallons of vht will do wonders for radials.

Two different engines making different power. The TTA is a TQ biased motor the LS1 is a tecnho marvel,the inherent make up of the LS1 should make a lot of tq, but the engineers managed to ring a lot of hp out of it as well(small bore long stroke).

Not to throw in the IF's! The TTA was meant to be a good performing 1/4 car and a decent top end. 2.77's would have added a few more mph up top. There is one at least that had the gears swapped for the silver state challenge and ran way past the claimed 162 mph top speed. The quickest et I've seen was a 13.4 at 104mph for the TTA. The quickest LS1 I've seen was a 12.983 by GMHTP mag.

I agree that with 2.73's I don't think an A4 LS1 will hit 162. As for the aerodynamics of the 3rd gen T/A body I remember reading an article about the Iroc series and they said that the new body style wasn't quite as aerodynamic as the 3rd gen t/a. The Camaro by comparison is quite dirtier by design(open fascia).

In the end you can't compare apples to oranges. As for the street I think the TTA wiould win(past an 1/8 mile the LS1 would definately start to gain though!!!!!!

I ran a 02 TA wit my 02 Z28B4C if that even matter from 70 miles/hr he could not keep up when I hit 155 he was a least 2 football fields behind. now I do have a 6-speed and he had a auto but the look on his face with 2 girls hanging their heads out the window asking me what I had done to my car??? You see it has no Z28 emblems on it. Ha Ha::

I think this whole thread is quite stupid....who cares...both cars are pretty dang fast.


Oh yeah....a STOCK LS1 will beat a STOCK TTA

Some body KILL this thread....Please!!!

In any case my car kicked 2 Buick T-type's last night and a Viper!

New personal best of 11.97 @ 118.9MPH with a 1.8 60'

Good Runs XKnightRider.

I miss the kill forum:(

I guess I'll bring a video camera with me when I top my car out.

It got to 146 without breaking a sweat. I know it'll hit 162.


Originally posted by Pete 548
I agree that with 2.73's I don't think an A4 LS1 will hit 162.

I got my A4 V6 Camaro with a 3.08 upto 118(limiter kicked in). I think a LS1 A4 with 2.73s shouldn't have a problem getting to 162mph.

Friends,
My TTA is pretty much stock except for a custom exhaust (yes I am running Goodyear GT2s) BUT I am running stock 16.5 pounds of boost. Against the 02 SS 6spd...I pulled an instant 3 car lengths to 70...the guy caught up when I hit 100 mph. BUT I had 200 lbs of additional passenger weight and a full tank... I would have to admit I doubt the guy was running stock...he had semi drags (tread pattern) and I am sure he had a upgraded lid. It appeared that he was looking for a race (by his aggressive driving and "ricer" weave driving. If I would have "boosted" off the line the 3 car length would have been a bus length...it would have been interesting to see if he could have caught me at the 1/4.

The arguement of whos car (TTA vs LS-1) faster???? is really a pissing contest...who cares! The TTA has it's advantages...and the LS-1 is the best small block ever. I DO believe that there is a little slant in here regarding what is considered "stock" and what sources we "CHOOSE" to place more weight in (in this forum, most of its slants against the TTA's favor)... For one, I think it's idiocy to compare a brand spanking new LS-1 with all the advance in technology with a TTA with 14 year old tires. With the Buick Turbo V-6...ITS ALL ABOUT BOOST. Anyone running 16.5 psi is considered "stock" in the Buick (TTA) community. Would I get marked down by running Red Line oil...it's not stock you know... How about the gas...back in 89...92 octane was considered the norm...not the lame 91 stuck they have now?? If I was to race "true" 92 octane fuel...would this be unfair to the LS-1 owners?

Million dollar question::: How many GNs, Syclones, TTAs, Typhoons are running stock boost these days?

***It is my opinion that the so called stock LS-1s running high 12s are few and far between. At best we are talking "factory freaks". Let's not be guilty and claim that ALL SS and WS-6 run high 12s. This overgeneralization is similiar to the situation when back in early 90...a guy and his 5.0 LX ran 13.9...then like magic every MUSTANG owner believed their car was running 13.9. There are a lot of factors to consider on how this one instance tagged a 13.9 vs the rest of the field runing mid 14s.

***Anyone with a "in tune" Turbo Trans Am running low 14s (with practice?) needs to quickly put an add in the paper and sell the car to a hobbiest that knows how to drag race. I have heard similiar low 14s for SS... (I didn't believe it one minute)

:rolleyes:

Moral: Both TTA and SS/WS-6s are exciting cars and worthy of our passion. If LS-1 owners want to say their car is the fastest in the west...it's fine with me.


;) :D ;)

Let me just add two facts to this pissing contest.

My friend (notable Firebird expert, has written two books on the subject) has TTA no. #231 and ran a best of 13.9 @ 101 at Terminal Island (sea level). His is bone stock and immaculate.

My 2001 SS A4 when it was showroom stock ran a 13.8 @ 101 at LACR (2700' elevation).

Showroom stock vs showroom stock. :p

MRZ28HO
Your buddy doesn't have to sell his TTA...(didn't run low 14s ;) )...1.) BUT he really is going to have to learn how to hold boost off the line. Sounds like he is having problems with his wastegate if he isn't able to hold boost off line. OR 2.) Running 89 Octane OR 3) Needs to fine tune his TTA. Be a friend and inform him that his TTA is on the slow end of the spectrum. 4.) Ran the TTA in 89 degree temp. He should be running at least a mid 13 in stock form. There is a huge dif between 13.9 and 13.2-13.4.

****One of the limiting factors in comparing the TTA and LS-1 cars is the fact that the TTA is going on 14 years old and with age...(example above) some things deteriorate and require tuning...esp with the Buick Turbo V-6. The LS-1 engine on the other hand is pretty modern and should be running close to potential in the hands of anyone with some technical competance.

On a personal note...It's been really fun owning the TTA...As an owner I have noticed...you are not 100% accepted by the Buick GN crowd...and not accepted 100% by F-Body crowd or 100% accepted by the Muscle Car crowd! This weekend...I had a GN owner telling me that my intercooler fan was the "regular stock GN" fan...when as a Fact the TTA came with the upgraded GNX intercooler/fan setup. After hereing this nonsense...I didn't even want to get into it and just said "what ever buddy". If I would have broke the news that the TTA engine is in fact equal to the GNX in terms of upgrades and improvements over stock GN V-6 (minus the ceramic turbo impeller/contanimation trap)...he probably would have blown a vessel. It's better to let people stew int their beliefs. Ignorance is bliss.

Originally posted by MRZ28HO
Let me just add two facts to this pissing contest.

My friend (notable Firebird expert, has written two books on the subject) has TTA no. #231 and ran a best of 13.9 @ 101 at Terminal Island (sea level). His is bone stock and immaculate.


George knows a lot about Pontiacs, but that doesn't mean he can drive;)

Bone stock in 89' mine turned 13.52 at slippery Carlsbad Raceway.

Does anyone here have a stock car? So why are we arguing stock. I have driven a TTA with 2700.00 in mods to a 10.4@137, I think that should about cover it. What would an LS1 with 2700.00 in mods run. I could care less about showroom condition, I never have had a car stock for more than a week. The question should be what would you rather own, I'll take a TTA please.

Originally posted by stubbs
Does anyone here have a stock car? So why are we arguing stock. I have driven a TTA with 2700.00 in mods to a 10.4@137, I think that should about cover it. What would an LS1 with 2700.00 in mods run. I could care less about showroom condition, I never have had a car stock for more than a week. The question should be what would you rather own, I'll take a TTA please.

I don't know that you'd get that deep into the 10's on $2700, but you would still be running really respectable times in the LS1 with that kind of investment. With a 150 wet shot ($700?), a 4400 stall converter ($700?), some ET Streets($200), and a pretty big nitrous-friendly cam ($500?), plus $600 in other bolt-ons like a lid, headers, catback exhaust you could probably be running in the 10's (probably not 10.4's tho). Could you buy all that stuff for $2700? Maybe, maybe not. It would all depend on where you bought the stuff, and if it was new or used.

I feel stupid for reading this thread...........


I want to know how a 305ci chevy made 360ftlbs of tq.....thats some crap.......305 is the king of crappy SBC's.......end of story....
if you want to compare tq......put your 305tpi up next to an Lt1....it will get stomped...

the TTA is a good car...but its old ..out dated and drives like a truck...but no way in hell is it as quick topend as an LS1......

I must disagree there. Most of the GM shootouts I have been to always have a few Grand Nationals at the end, and how much heavier is a GN that a TA? The track finals speak for themselves, I see more GN's than LS1 cars everytime.

Originally posted by LetsRollTTA
Friends,
My TTA is pretty much stock except for a custom exhaust (yes I am running Goodyear GT2s) BUT I am running stock 16.5 pounds of boost. Against the 02 SS 6spd...I pulled an instant 3 car lengths to 70...the guy caught up when I hit 100 mph. BUT I had 200 lbs of additional passenger weight and a full tank... I would have to admit I doubt the guy was running stock...he had semi drags (tread pattern) and I am sure he had a upgraded lid. It appeared that he was looking for a race (by his aggressive driving and "ricer" weave driving. If I would have "boosted" off the line the 3 car length would have been a bus length...it would have been interesting to see if he could have caught me at the 1/4.

The arguement of whos car (TTA vs LS-1) faster???? is really a pissing contest...who cares! The TTA has it's advantages...and the LS-1 is the best small block ever. I DO believe that there is a little slant in here regarding what is considered "stock" and what sources we "CHOOSE" to place more weight in (in this forum, most of its slants against the TTA's favor)... For one, I think it's idiocy to compare a brand spanking new LS-1 with all the advance in technology with a TTA with 14 year old tires. With the Buick Turbo V-6...ITS ALL ABOUT BOOST. Anyone running 16.5 psi is considered "stock" in the Buick (TTA) community. Would I get marked down by running Red Line oil...it's not stock you know... How about the gas...back in 89...92 octane was considered the norm...not the lame 91 stuck they have now?? If I was to race "true" 92 octane fuel...would this be unfair to the LS-1 owners?

Million dollar question::: How many GNs, Syclones, TTAs, Typhoons are running stock boost these days?

***It is my opinion that the so called stock LS-1s running high 12s are few and far between. At best we are talking "factory freaks". Let's not be guilty and claim that ALL SS and WS-6 run high 12s. This overgeneralization is similiar to the situation when back in early 90...a guy and his 5.0 LX ran 13.9...then like magic every MUSTANG owner believed their car was running 13.9. There are a lot of factors to consider on how this one instance tagged a 13.9 vs the rest of the field runing mid 14s.

***Anyone with a "in tune" Turbo Trans Am running low 14s (with practice?) needs to quickly put an add in the paper and sell the car to a hobbiest that knows how to drag race. I have heard similiar low 14s for SS... (I didn't believe it one minute)

:rolleyes:

Moral: Both TTA and SS/WS-6s are exciting cars and worthy of our passion. If LS-1 owners want to say their car is the fastest in the west...it's fine with me.


;) :D ;)

Well said:cool:

My faculty adviser once said "When the flag drops the bull**** stops".

Makes and models are just an indication of the outcome of a race. If everyone can't agree which one is faster, take it to the track.

I think the LS1 clubs should get together with the TTA clubs and have a track day for somew friendly racing. Even then the outcome is a wash because of drivers skill, modifications and as he said, the TTA is a much older vehicle. We can never determine which one "was" faster just which car is fastest at that particular time.

Rock on everybody:metal: