GM Stock is dropping like a ROCK

Well it looks like GM stock is dropping like a rock.
$11.31 a share,as a low for the last 50 plus years......
GM said that they will not make a profit in 2009.
GM also are not making anymore trucks this year and GM
should have been a tad smarter.They are closing 4 truck plants.
I feel GM stock will be less then $10 on Monday,makes you think if our Camaros will be made in china the way things are going lol.
Gm is in very bad shape.
But as for our Camaro SS,I feel we still will get them at invoice or a tad over it.
Maybe GM and Ford will have some sort of a partnership very soon.....

I just deleted a second post.....don't know what it is about this that sets me off. Maybe it's the constant market speculation or the over-use of the word "invoice". I'll be quiet now.....

They need to do a couple things.

1. Fix their problem with bad dealers.
2. Make a product people will buy, not a product people will statistically buy.

you know i was gonna write or post a thread about it and im glad itwas started. i noticed that and i think Johnny is right. I was wondering if GM will give better deals when the camaro is released. As for the company, it really hurts me to see it drop like that. GM has to start competing head on with the imports or its going to sink faster than we could ever imagine. :(

I'm going to post this response to a thread of the same topic in the Automotive forum:

I must disagree. GM is growing overseas revenue by roughly 20% currently. That translates into an incremental $13-$15B in revenue for 2008. That will actually more than offset the NA decrease. People get way to caught up in the US market without looking at the bigger picture.

GM burned $3B in cash for Q1 because they got caught with their shorts down on the truck build numbers. Internal inventory went up nearly $2B for the quarter because they could not react in time to both the demand change and the American Axle strike. They will work this number back down pretty quickly.

An incremental $6B in cost improvements is only 18 months away when the UAW contract begins to pay-off. Given a 30% contribution margin, overall revenue would have to fall over $19B before GM would be worse off than 2007. They are a long way from done.

Also, at some point the pension overfunding of $18B is going to enter this equation. When you only have a market capitalization of $6.5B, it is time to start figuring out how to cap the pension plan and get some of this excess back into the company. I am sure some smart people are working on this issue.

Maybe it's not as bad as it "seems"? :shrug: Maybe we're crying "the sky is falling!" a little too soon??? :shrug:

Hopefully things work out. GM is a big company. I'm sure they will :cool:.

GM is probably going to eliminate it's dividend, which is the correct thing to do, and that's causing everyone to reevaluate the value of the stock.

However, the company is only worth $7B, so this puts them in easy takeover territory ... if anyone wants them.

I'm tempted to buy some GM stock while it's down. I'm fairly sure it will come back up eventually, so now is the time to buy buy buy (or hopefully mid-July when i get my money it will be).

Well it looks like GM stock is dropping like a rock.
$11.31 a share,as a low for the last 50 plus years......
GM said that they will not make a profit in 2009.
GM also are not making anymore trucks this year and GM
should have been a tad smarter.They are closing 4 truck plants.
I feel GM stock will be less then $10 on Monday,makes you think if our Camaros will be made in china the way things are going lol.
Gm is in very bad shape.
But as for our Camaro SS,I feel we still will get them at invoice or a tad over it.
Maybe GM and Ford will have some sort of a partnership very soon.....

Johnny, although I agree that GM is in serious trouble right now and to a large degree it's their own fault, you're way off in one particular area. Expecting GM's troubles to mean cut rate pricing on their vehicles (I know you are confused about the meaning of "invoice", which actually means dealer price).

The idea of the game is to get as much as you are asking for a vehicle. If Camaro is hot selling, GM will be selling them without any discounts or rebates (a defacto price cut since GM would be paying the public to buy their vehicle). Dealers will be making the difference of invoice and whatever they mark up the price to (dealers get 100% of markups, not the manufacturer).

A car like Camaro will almost certainly have zero rebate, discount, or incentive since 1) the cars will no doubt have high demand initially that will outstrip supply, and 2) since the factory manning hasn't been finalized & GM can still adjust production to where actual projected sales will be unlike a vehicle already in production that needs to cut production.

As for Ford and GM merging, don't see that happening. GM and Ford have teamed up to develop a new 6 speed automatic transmission for FWD applications. I also see GM & Ford getting together in the future and combining resources for various other parts like wiring, pollution systems, and electrical systems in order to save costs.

But an outright merger is pretty much out of the question because there would be no benefit to either company (the real reason for mergers). Both GM and Ford have operations in the same markets globally. Both have very successful overseas operations. Neither one has the resources to straighten out the liabilities of both companies combines. Both have very different corperate cultures (Ford's is essentially a family business where the CEO is allpowerful as long as he has the family's backing, while GM is a board run bureaucracy where even the CEO doesn't have the freedom to do what's necessary to adapt to quick changes in the market).

Ford actually did have enough cash to buy GM about 8 to 10 years ago, and when Mercedes Benz bough Chrysler, Chrysler had more money in the bank than any US automaker. But with all 3 fighting tooth and nail to change from being truck companies back into car companies as fast as possible, no one is going to have time to even think about merging let alone do it. Combine resources on some subsystems, likely. Merge, not likely.

I'm tempted to buy some GM stock while it's down. I'm fairly sure it will come back up eventually, so now is the time to buy buy buy (or hopefully mid-July when i get my money it will be).

I'm not a financial advisor, but as one citizen to another?:yes:

Here's one issue for me, and I'' try to minimize the politics and mitigate my comments to skirt it from being a rant...

1 in 15 folks, if my uderstanding is correct, in the U.S.A. have their jobs connected to the car business.

In my own personal observation, neither political party gives a *&^t whether our industrial base holds on.

There are a ton of monday morning quarterbacks on the internet that have zero vested interest in how things play out. It's the nature of the venues and not having a dog in the fight usually matters very little when folks are make sweeping statements, from my experience.

Were the truck/suv market so foolish to pursue, what exactly explains the Japanese big 2 making such a concentrated effort to penetrate that market?

The price of fuel at the pumps has done more than any political posturing to change things. CAFE regulation changes at this point are moot as I believe much of the new regs were meant to socially engineer trucks and suv's out of the bargain.

There has been a rash of what I believe to be unfathomed financial stupidity being played out by vehicle buyers of late... by that I mean rushing in an upside down state out of one vehicle into a <usually> lesser one because of pump prices.

The political arena seems to offer us that there is a brave new world which doesn't rely on manufacturing basis, and much being said by the candidates is little other than "snap finger" solutions.

I'm just another human being driving my way on through the present fog. Fortunately I know where I'm going.

GM needs to continue beating the drum to all that will listen to what GM has to offer.

GM will absolutely respond to a changing market and all those who have a vested interest will adjust, adapt, and keep after it.

The majority of the stock market took a bit hit. This is a truth...

Another truth is that GM builds really good vehicles.

Whatever you do, consider the big picture. Regardless if it's in financial choices, patriotic considerations, or common sense.

I apologize if I have crossed any lines in making this post.

Guy,
In my personal opinion, Chrysler is the "dead man walking" and the likely merger candidate. Maybe to a more Asian based interest rather than a home based enterprise.

Time will tell. It could be a real foothold play for someone, maybe.

They need to do a couple things.

1. Fix their problem with bad dealers.
2. Make a product people will buy, not a product people will statistically buy.

Lets' look at that premise...

What do other dealer's do that GM doesn't require from it's dealer network? Specifics would be nice. What do other manufacturer's dealers do that GM dealers do not do?

And then:
What product will people buy? Let's take the Chevy Malibu as an example. Mid-size cars are still a big market. Car for car, where is GM not covering that base in spades?

[QUOTE
And then:
What product will people buy? Let's take the Chevy Malibu as an example. Mid-size cars are still a big market. Car for car, where is GM not covering that base in spades?[/QUOTE]

Statistically people will buy a hot car because of the looks. Consistently people will buy a car because it is a quality built car...And I am not talking about assembly I am talking about corner cutting for cost cutting...

And then:
What product will people buy? Let's take the Chevy Malibu as an example. Mid-size cars are still a big market. Car for car, where is GM not covering that base in spades?

Statistically people will buy a hot car because of the looks. Consistently people will buy a car because it is a quality built car...And I am not talking about assembly I am talking about corner cutting for cost cutting...

I'm really missing what you are saying here... are you suggesting the Malibu is a cost cutting excercise, a hot looking car, or a quality built car? I don't think I'm catching your point from your reply. I apologize for the lack of reception of your point on my part. Could you elaborate?

I don't think one could truly show that trucks or suv's are off on sales due to any of your suggested reasons...:rolleyes: Granted, looks are subjective. Sales are off for something other than you suggest.

As Chrysler has just announced that they, basically, expect the 2009 Ram to save their company............ and that truck sales will bounce back to where they were (you know, because we have so much of a precident as to what happens when fuel prices double) after a short down period.................. I agree with you completely.

They sound as out of touch as GM sounds panic'd.

I don't think one could truly show that trucks or suv's are off on sales due to any of your suggested reasons... Granted, looks are subjective. Sales are off for something other than you suggest.

Truck sales are down because they have a direct correlation to fuel. What im saying is if the malibu or any car for that matter is truly a qaulity car you cant judge that from the first model year, in terms of quality, that is something that you at least need( and this is generous) two years to tell...Right now the malibu, (which is a handsome car) is a impulse buy.. In the past Gm has taken the approach especially on cadillacs and the northstar headgasket problem, the percentage game those headgaskets will go out but what percentage would be caught under warranty as opposed to after. Not a problem if it was a two, three, four maybe even a thousand dollar fix but a four to ten thousand dollar problem on forty and fifty thousand dollar cars makes no sense unless you are playing percentages and there was no recall of factory fix... Sorry I am ranting...
GM IS MESSING UP THIS CAR thats what I am saying. All this time and this car will not be the future of automobiles it is not thermonuclear technology it is not the presidential g man getaway car. This for all purposes is a sports car or sports coupe. If saleen was able to make a few 5th gen camaros on the gto platform gm could have done the same, and progressively improved on it instead of takeing it out of the market for EIGHT YEARS. The concept was out four years ago..Well now you have a interesting predicament enthusiast are going to buy this car regardless it could be a cobalt badged as a z28 and they will buy it...unfortunately they are not the ones that gm is worrying about...Its average joe that needs to be impressed...(For all those who will say the camaros sales were decreasing....Two words PONTIAC AZTEC, enuf said.:D

GM IS MESSING UP THIS CAR thats what I am saying. All this time and this car will not be the future of automobiles it is not thermonuclear technology it is not the presidential g man getaway car. This for all purposes is a sports car or sports coupe. If saleen was able to make a few 5th gen camaros on the gto platform gm could have done the same, and progressively improved on it instead of takeing it out of the market for EIGHT YEARS.
Wow, I'd LOVE to hear the reviews on an overhauled GTO-based Camaro..............:rolleyes:
(go read around to find out why the concept-car only showed it face in 2006.)

The concept was out four years ago.
:think:
Actually...it's been out for two and a half years (barely), and come production time, the project will have had 2.2 years in the oven.

. . .

:uhoh:

Wow, I'd LOVE to hear the reviews on an overhauled GTO-based Camaro..............:rolleyes:
(go read around to find out why the concept-car only showed it face in 2006.)


:think:
Actually...it's been out for two and a half years (barely), and come production time, the project will have had 2.2 years in the oven.

Actually its closer to 3 years...and they started showing it at shows around 2 1/2 years ago they They had the idea before the pictures leaked(I guess);)hopefully it has a longer run than cavalier gxp, my bad the GTO. Styling doomed the car before it got out of the gate.:D YOU know you hate that it is taking and has taken gm this long....

YOU know you hate that it is taking and has taken gm this long....
Of course I do. We all do! But I can understand why it's taking them this 'long'.
I for one, don't want a slapped-together Challenger. oops, did I say that out loud?:lol:


Anyways, Stock...and rocks.

Truck sales are down because they have a direct correlation to fuel. What im saying is if the malibu or any car for that matter is truly a qaulity car you cant judge that from the first model year, in terms of quality, that is something that you at least need( and this is generous) two years to tell...Right now the malibu, (which is a handsome car) is a impulse buy.. In the past Gm has taken the approach especially on cadillacs and the northstar headgasket problem, the percentage game those headgaskets will go out but what percentage would be caught under warranty as opposed to after. Not a problem if it was a two, three, four maybe even a thousand dollar fix but a four to ten thousand dollar problem on forty and fifty thousand dollar cars makes no sense unless you are playing percentages and there was no recall of factory fix... Sorry I am ranting...
GM IS MESSING UP THIS CAR thats what I am saying. All this time and this car will not be the future of automobiles it is not thermonuclear technology it is not the presidential g man getaway car. This for all purposes is a sports car or sports coupe. If saleen was able to make a few 5th gen camaros on the gto platform gm could have done the same, and progressively improved on it instead of takeing it out of the market for EIGHT YEARS. The concept was out four years ago..Well now you have a interesting predicament enthusiast are going to buy this car regardless it could be a cobalt badged as a z28 and they will buy it...unfortunately they are not the ones that gm is worrying about...Its average joe that needs to be impressed...(For all those who will say the camaros sales were decreasing....Two words PONTIAC AZTEC, enuf said.:D

Well, I appreciate the clarification. The Malibu is new, but the undepinnings have a bit more history than 2008. The Ecotec isn't a new untested piece either. It's more than good looks that's geting the Malibu noticed.

I realize the Camaro has been out of production longer than fans of the car would like.

As for Saleen being able to do in short time... He built a movie car. A good looking piece that generated a lot of recognition. Still, it's a movie car and it's only suitable for that purpose. The production Camaro is quite a bit further reaching and more desirable than a reskinned Monaro.

It's unfortunate that you think GM is "messing up this car". I gotta disagree completely with your conclusion.

As Chrysler has just announced that they, basically, expect the 2009 Ram to save their company............ and that truck sales will bounce back to where they were (you know, because we have so much of a precident as to what happens when fuel prices double) after a short down period.................. I agree with you completely.

They sound as out of touch as GM sounds panic'd.

I don't think GM is in panic. They have quite a bit going on in alternative fuels and fuel saving tech.

I didn't say they were.............. I said they sounded like it.

Read all of the topics on what has been said to the media lately, and it truly does come off like they really don't know what to do. Of course, their manage by commitee method can easily cause that................ and goodness knows that fast and decisive decisions are not something that GM is known for.

I realize I will probably get slammed for saying this, but you all know that it is true. Frankly, the amount of justification that has been going on around this site is starting to sound like there is a need for a 12-step program. Talk about codependency. LOL

I watch all of this with amazement actually. When the bad news just keeps coming in, then everyone is in uproar, and they want things to change now. Then, if a day goes by without much bad news, everyone starts justifying everything that GM is doing, or not doing................. and by the end of the day, there are just a few of us that are truly worried. Its kind of like watching my mother with her string of loser boyfriends.

I realize I will probably get slammed for saying this, but you all know that it is true. Frankly, the amount of justification that has been going on around this site is starting to sound like there is a need for a 12-step program. Talk about codependency. LOL

I watch all of this with amazement actually. When the bad news just keeps coming in, then everyone is in uproar, and they want things to change now. Then, if a day goes by without much bad news, everyone starts justifying everything that GM is doing, or not doing................. and by the end of the day, there are just a few of us that are truly worried. Its kind of like watching my mother with her string of loser boyfriends.

Well, as for me? I'm optimistic.

I agree that there are mood swings here, but that's nothing at all new.

A great new Camaro is coming and I think folk will spend their money well if they are in a position to buy one.

The things which concern me are political and economic. The price of gas doesn't bother me as much as folks running for office proud to suggest they will raise taxes. Ask Herbert Hoover how well that worked in an inflation/recessionary cycle.

Like I said, I'm optimistic. I'm seriously thinking of buying a new Chevrolet for my wife on Monday. I figure it's cloudy but the sky isn't falling.

You know, we all stay very optimistic about GM's future and I think in this day of extreme speculation it has actually had an impact on the stock. Even though I'm sure no one will believe it.
Lets' look at that premise...

What do other dealer's do that GM doesn't require from it's dealer network? Specifics would be nice. What do other manufacturer's dealers do that GM dealers do not do?


I don't think some guy on the internet is going to know Toyota's business model. :)

Guy,
In my personal opinion, Chrysler is the "dead man walking" and the likely merger candidate. Maybe to a more Asian based interest rather than a home based enterprise.

Time will tell. It could be a real foothold play for someone, maybe.
I hear this a lot, but I disagree. Chrysler has thrown some good hail-marys in their day.




And then:
What product will people buy? Let's take the Chevy Malibu as an example. Mid-size cars are still a big market. Car for car, where is GM not covering that base in spades?

Im gonna start a new thread for this.

No one is going to bail out GM after the mistake Cerberus made trying to take on Chrysler. Sounds like they're a few weeks from chapter 11.

One problem facing GM is definitely the dealer mark up, and has been for a long time. It just hasn't been critical until now.

I don't think their biggest problem can be fixed a reasonable amount of time. They build great trucks, but their cars are $h!t. I drove a new Impala recently and wouldn't give it to my son as a starter car. Interior by Playskool, strut clunk, uncomfortable, gutless pile of dog$hit. No thanks, after driving my company car Camry for a year, I'm going with Toyota for my family's vehicles.

They need to dump the entire truck line with the exception of basic 1/2 and 1 ton work trucks and start making cars not as good as, but BETTER than Toyota, Honda, and Nissan. If they aren't, they WILL go out of business. With a market cap of less than $7B in an overall market of trillions, does it really matter though?

The future is electric. They better be working overtime on releasing a high quality version of the Volt ASAP if they expect to survive.

Like a rock
Stock was low as it could be
Like a rock
no one buyin SUV's
Like a rock
oooooh Like a rock.

couldn't help myself:)

^^ :lol:

Unfortunately, I'm not cluey enough to understand the accounting lingo as my understanding of a loss is losing money or assets.

GM have been making losses for years, the manufacturing volume hasn't really increased over the years and GM are losing market share at a rapid rate. And GM has been hampered by the fact that it's been unable to shrink it's workforce in line with the drop in market share. All these factors have led to financial firms downgrading stock to virtually junk levels.

Not being an accountant, I don't understand how there are any positives when the situation is bad and outlook bleak... Despite all this, GM seems happy with its current position, going forward?

So my short question is what real alternatives do GM have short of declaring Ch11? And I don't mean how can GM sell assets in order to secure money and/or loans, I mean how can GM turn the business around?

I don't think GM is in panic. They have quite a bit going on in alternative fuels and fuel saving tech.

Yea that they should be putting out in commercials..Hondas doing it witht he Clarity vehicle..while GM has been doing the same for YEARS

Unfortunately, I'm not cluey enough to understand the accounting lingo as my understanding of a loss is losing money or assets.

GM have been making losses for years, the manufacturing volume hasn't really increased over the years and GM are losing market share at a rapid rate. And GM has been hampered by the fact that it's been unable to shrink it's workforce in line with the drop in market share. All these factors have led to financial firms downgrading stock to virtually junk levels.

Not being an accountant, I don't understand how there are any positives when the situation is bad and outlook bleak... Despite all this, GM seems happy with its current position, going forward?

So my short question is what real alternatives do GM have short of declaring Ch11? And I don't mean how can GM sell assets in order to secure money and/or loans, I mean how can GM turn the business around?

Believe me, GM has some big challenges ahead and I not that big a cheerleader. But I do not believe the situation is as dire as immediate bankruptcy like some. The big challenge for GM remains cash flow. They burned through $3.6B in net cash flow from operations (after capital investments) in Q108. That is really bad and lots of people are extrapolating a continuation of those kind of numbers. The issue is they actually used up $2.1B of working capital in the quarter due to getting caught short on the demand picture deterioration and American Axle strike.

This kind of working capital burn should not happen again (and has not happened in the previous three years) and in fact should reverse as they adjust the inventory to new demand levels. So you can think about GM in Q1 as losing about $1.5B in cash from other than working capital, $2.0B from working capital, and doing this while only making 885K units in North America. Q208 will be more of the same, they are only making 835K units in NA - but an incremental 60K for Rest of World (ROW). So, it would not be a surprise to see another big burn for Q2. An optomist would say they reverse the working capital issue and get flat cash flow even with the lower volume numbers. I am not quite that big an optomist.

One other thing to mention is in the first half, GM will have reduced US inventory at dealers by close to 130K units (probably $3B in revenue). I would not expect this level of adjustment going forward either.

Finally, to the more positive view. GM production for Q3 looks to be increasing about 125K units (200K units above Q307) and Q4 looks to be an all-time high unit build number. It is not North America driving the numbers, it is international. International automotive revenue has been up $8B, $9B, and $14B the last three years. In Q108, it was up $3.5B so it continues to improve.

Couple this with the upcoming savings from implementation of the UAW contract and by 1/1/2010 GM will be looking at $6B in costs coming out of the North American model. What do the true worldcars save in mfg and material costs? Who knows, but given this is their biggest cost bucket it is probably significant as well. Traverse, Camaro, Volt, and new small cars add to momentum in 2010.

By the way, GM has $23.1B in cash right now. Compare that to a low of $16.6B at the end of 2005. There is some good news around, it is just a little hard to keep track of with the full-size market imploding. Get the labor agreement implemented, hit the Volt dates, get the worldcars and better mileage vehicles into production, continue to drive international business, and conserve cash as best as possible. You add all that up and GM would be in a position to have $5-$6B annual cash flow by 2010.

Also, the US pension plan has $104B of assets with only $85B projected liability. They are currently $19B overfunded. It is near impossible to get this money back out of the pension and to the company, but not totally impossible. If GM really believed the turnaround story, I would have the pension buy up 25% of the outstanding stock (only $1.7B). At $11.55, it would not take much to show quite a return. It is amazing they only have a $6.5B market valuation - but most people are looking for the black lining.

On the other hand - they have $40B in debt, are having to put up huge promotions to move cars in NA, GMAC auto loans may join Rescap in falling apart, and are counting on unproven technology to get the Volt into production, while currently lagging behind on small car offerings. What to believe?

JackDye,

You wouldn't happen to be a GM engineer who's attended the company's fact-sharing meetings in the past couple of weeks, would you?

JackDye,

You wouldn't happen to be a GM engineer who's attended the company's fact-sharing meetings in the past couple of weeks, would you?

Birds of a feather Eric? :lol:

JackDye,

You wouldn't happen to be a GM engineer who's attended the company's fact-sharing meetings in the past couple of weeks, would you?

No, I am a retired financial guy living in the Houston area. I follow GM as a potential investment and drive GM trucks (Avalanche currently). Are you saying there are a few others saying the same thing? Hopefully he is pitching the silver lining vs the black version.

Birds of a feather Eric? :lol:

Different species, but same risk of extinction if things head the wrong way ;) Read: I'm not a GM employee, but I'm going to get an unplanned vacation if the company files for Chapter 11.

Are you saying there are a few others saying the same thing? Hopefully he is pitching the silver lining vs the black version.

I'll just say that similar numbers are being thrown around, albeit with different tone and levels of optimism. There is also some concern about how to get from here to 2010, when perhaps things might take a turn for the better.

Believe me, GM has some big challenges ahead and I not that big a cheerleader. But I do not believe the situation is as dire as immediate bankruptcy like some.

JackDye

Thank you for your extremely informative post that was relatively easy to understand. :)

Geeeee I didnot think I would start a war lol
GM is now at $11 and some cents
We will know by weeks end since GM will report their earnings this week what the stock and the companywill be doing.
GM had the 72 hour sale and will end tomorrow,I think it was a dud but then again I can be wrong?
Many say GM will introduce the VOLT next year??????
Lets say that 1 out of 10 people have a electric car and we all plug the cars in to recharge it at 6pm every night.I think we will have many BROWNOUTS all over the country in our homes,Blackoutsssssss.
Funny I am sure if and when the Volt comes out that the dealers will also markup the cars also...So where is the savings?????
I would hold off buying any GM stock untill the end of next week and see what GMs earnings will be????
I try to stay away from Auto and airline stocks....
As for the Camaro SS I will look and buy one knowing what I am going to pay.And its alot less then MSRP.......
GM never cared too much at making money with cars because they were making money with their trucks.Now I think it might be tad be too late for them.
Hummmm lets see when Gas prices hit $7 a Gal and how many people will be able to afford a car and gas.Some of us are lucky and will be able to upgrade their cars every 2-3 years,but I am sure many will not be able too.........JT

Geeeee I didnot think I would start a war lol
GM is now at $11 and some cents
We will know by weeks end since GM will report their earnings this week what the stock and the companywill be doing.
GM had the 72 hour sale and will end tomorrow,I think it was a dud but then again I can be wrong?
Many say GM will introduce the VOLT next year??????
Lets say that 1 out of 10 people have a electric car and we all plug the cars in to recharge it at 6pm every night.I think we will have many BROWNOUTS all over the country in our homes,Blackoutsssssss.
Funny I am sure if and when the Volt comes out that the dealers will also markup the cars also...So where is the savings?????
I would hold off buying any GM stock untill the end of next week and see what GMs earnings will be????
I try to stay away from Auto and airline stocks....
As for the Camaro SS I will look and buy one knowing what I am going to pay.And its alot less then MSRP.......
GM never cared too much at making money with cars because they were making money with their trucks.Now I think it might be tad be too late for them.
Hummmm lets see when Gas prices hit $7 a Gal and how many people will be able to afford a car and gas.Some of us are lucky and will be able to upgrade their cars every 2-3 years,but I am sure many will not be able too.........JT

Updated.....
Yes GM sells many cars around the world,,,,,But the US is their bread and butter

Wow...in the $10 area. How low will it go before you guys start buying some to ride out the storm?

Wow...in the $10 area. How low will it go before you guys start buying some to ride out the storm?

I have about 50 shares right now and when it hits $10 I'll probably double up and get 50 more. and then double again if it hits $5. I hope it doesn't go that low though.

Wow...in the $10 area. How low will it go before you guys start buying some to ride out the storm?

If I were looking for a bargain, I'd wait until GM announces that the dividend will be cut. That has a very good chance of sending the stock even lower.

I suspect that the release of June sales numbers and GM's Q2 financial statement will hammer the price a bit lower, too.

If I were looking for a bargain, I'd wait until GM announces that the dividend will be cut. That has a very good chance of sending the stock even lower.

I suspect that the release of June sales numbers and GM's Q2 financial statement will hammer the price a bit lower, too.

Any idea when they'll be cutting the dividend?

Any idea when they'll be cutting the dividend?

It's damn near impossible to say (at least without inside info, which of course is illegal to use for profit), and the high likelihood of this occurring may already be priced into the stock.

Today, GM's stock actually went up for a while after the announcement that sales dropped 18%, because the market was expecting something even worse. This is why bad news sometimes causes stock prices to increase.

A $1/yr dividend on an $11/share stock is 9%. Try getting that at your local bank.

A $1/yr dividend on an $11/share stock is 9%. Try getting that at your local bank.


I think the dividend is still 50 cents.

More bad news:


NEW YORK (AP) -- Shares of General Motors Corp. plunged Wednesday to their lowest level since September 1954, as investors shrugged off better-than-expected June sales and analysts raised concerns about the company's cash needs.

Shares of General Motors have closed below $10 for the first time since Dwight Eisenhower was president of the United States. The stock ended the day at $9.98, down 15.1%, its lowest level since Sept. 13, 1954.

On Tuesday, GM (GM, Fortune 500) shares surged as much as 12%. The automaker reported an 18.2% drop in sales from a year ago, but it retained its traditional U.S. sales lead over Toyota Motor Corp. (TM), which posted a 21.4% decline.

Analysts, who had expected a much steeper drop, said GM's sales were able to outpace those of most other automakers because of late-month incentives and double-digit jumps in demand for certain small and midsized cars.

Deutsche Bank's Rod Lache said that while previous incentive programs have resulted in temporary boosts to GM's market share, they have generally been followed by drops in later months.

"If history is any guide, we would expect GM's sales to experience 'payback' for the pulled-forward sales in the months ahead," Lache wrote in a note to investors.

The analyst said GM's market share could drop back to the 19% to 20% range, down from its June level of 22.1%.

Meanwhile, Citi Investment Research analyst Itay Michaeli slashed his price target on GM shares to $14 from $21, citing liquidity fears.

"While we do not believe GM is facing an immediate cash crunch, the urgency to shore up liquidity to navigate through a difficult 2008-09 has risen significantly in recent months," Michaeli said in a note to clients. He kept a "hold" rating.
Ford's position

Ford Motor Co. (F, Fortune 500) didn't fare as well as its crosstown rival. The Dearborn, Mich.-based automaker said its June sales plunged 27.9%, blaming surging gas prices for knocking its light-truck sales down 35.4%.

On Wednesday, Ford shares fell 9 cents to $4.62 after touching a multidecade low of $4.41 the day before.

Despite the sales drop, Lache said Ford remains the best positioned among the U.S.-based automakers and has the required cash to handle a drawn-out industrywide slump.

"In addition, we continue to believe that Ford is the most 'fixable' of the three U.S. automakers - it has effectively consolidated itself to two brands, and we still see considerable cost-savings opportunities within the enterprise," Lache said.

June was a dismal month for the industry overall, which posted an 18.3% sales drop, according to Autodata Corp. Only Honda Motor Co. (HMC), whose lineup is tilted toward smaller and more fuel-efficient cars, managed to report a sales increase for June - slightly over 1%.

The automakers' shares have taken a beating in recent weeks, hurt by rising oil prices and a weak U.S. economy, along with a shift in consumer demand away from gas-guzzling light trucks and toward more fuel-efficient cars and crossovers.

Presumably, this didn't help GM's stock price performance yesterday:

Merrill: GM Needs $15 Billion, Bankruptcy 'Not Impossible' (http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/djf500/200807021246DOWJONESDJONLINE000539_FORTUNE5.htm)

NEW YORK -(Dow Jones)- General Motors Corp. (GM) is burning through cash faster than investors realize and may even face bankruptcy if the auto market worsens and it can't raise enough capital, Merrill Lynch warned Wednesday.

Merrill downgraded GM to underperform from buy and said that shares may fall below $7 over the next 12 months. GM shares fell 4.5% in recent trading to $ 11.22, the lowest its been in more than 30 years. A GM spokeswoman declined to comment on Merrill's report.

"Bankruptcy is not impossible if the market continues to deteriorate and significant incremental capital is not raised," the Merrill analysts wrote, while also deepening their expectations for GM's losses this year and projecting the automaker will report a loss next year as well.

Merrill believes GM will need to raise $15 billion in capital to fund its operations for the next two years - more than the between $5 billion and $10 billion analysts had previously forecast. The capital raise would come partly from existing credit facilities, with the remainder through a combination of secured debt, asset sales or even by effectively borrowing from the United Auto Worker's independent trust created to fund retiree health care, the Merrill analysts said.

Well, I read this stuff on a daily basis... only to have the notion repudiated. So what's a guy supposed to believe when the same thing makes headlines daily? :(

I just wonder how much of this doom and gloom reporting is making things worse for GM. I mean there's the story in the lounge about speculation, bad news, and rumors putting the nails in the coffin of Bears & Stern. We've seen what bad news and speculation can do to the price of oil. I just can't help but think that sending out all of these articles about how bad things are at GM is just throwing fuel on the fire.

I just wonder how much of this doom and gloom reporting is making things worse for GM.

Anyone can make sh*t up - GM's problem is that it doesn't have the fundamentals or the PR capabilities to refute any of this stuff. If the facts aren't in your favor, and if you're incapable of generating positive spin, the future doesn't look so bright.

The Detroit News reports today that the Merrill Lynch analyst, John Murphy, in a note to investors, said he expects GM stock to fall to $7 and believes there is potential downside in the stock below $7. He forecasts significant losses for GM this year and next and that bankruptcy is not impossible if the market continues to deteriorate. This is significant because "The Merrill Lynch analyst was one of the last tepid bulls on GM," said David Sowerby, senior portfolio manager at Loomis, Sayles & Co. LP investment management in Bloomfield Hills [MI]. "He was the last guy defending the bunker."
By Christine Tierney and Brian J. O'Conner

Anyone can make sh*t up - GM's problem is that it doesn't have the fundamentals or the PR capabilities to refute any of this stuff. If the facts aren't in your favor, and if you're incapable of generating positive spin, the future doesn't look so bright.

Whos making this up????
GM came out a month ago and said that they will not make any money in 2009.
I would not buy any of GM stock since the company looks very gloomy.
Maybe its good a few companys go out of business?
It will make a better ecomomy in the near future with one less company.
I try to stay away from Auto and airline stocks,,,Buy Visa,JPM,BAC,WFC since they are there for our pickings.....

GM go out of business... no thanks, IIRC that would bump unemployment in the US by 10% as it rippled across the economy.

Not to mention the inevitable incarceration I would face for beating some pimple faced ricer to death for gloating about it.

Whos making this up????
GM came out a month ago and said that they will not make any money in 2009.

I didn't say anyone was making up anything - I was simply responding to a couple of people who asked a what-if.


I would not buy any of GM stock since the company looks very gloomy.
Maybe its good a few companys go out of business?
It will make a better ecomomy in the near future with one less company.


Most industries can do just fine with 2-3 major players and a few smaller companies. The automotive industry currently has too many companies and too many brands.

Tax the **** out of imports. ;)

Tax the **** out of imports. ;)

Problem is that many are made here, so you can't exactly tax an import if it's not an import. They also have factories that employ people, if you shut them down, there too will be unemployed people right here.

Problem is that many are made here, so you can't exactly tax an import if it's not an import. They also have factories that employ people, if you shut them down, there too will be unemployed people right here.

No, Chrome has the right idea.
Tax the living snot out of every foreign good in this country, whether it's "assembled" here or somewhere else.

When is this country going to start taking care of itself?

No, Chrome has the right idea.
Tax the living snot out of every foreign good in this country, whether it's "assembled" here or somewhere else.

When is this country going to start taking care of itself?

With your country's debt at the level that it is now, it cannot afford to tax the snot out of every foreign good.

With your country's debt at the level that it is now, it cannot afford to tax the snot out of every foreign good.

One would also find that a lot of "American" companies would be in huge trouble if they were to be "protected" by tariffs on foreign products.

One would also find that a lot of "American" companies would be in huge trouble if they were to be "protected" by tariffs on foreign products.
That is certainly true.

Down $.56 at 1pm today to $9.36. GM needs to kill the dividend. To suspend the $1/share dividend would save them $566.15 million per year.

Down $.56 at 1pm today to $9.36. GM needs to kill the dividend. To suspend the $1/share dividend would save them $566.15 million per year.

Suspending the dividend may severely hurt the stock price, though (depending on to what extent such an event is already priced into the stock's value). It's going to be tricky for GM to convince the market that suspending the dividend will make the company more viable and thus more valuable.