Don't mod 08+ Duramax Trucks

This came straight from a friend who is a GM technician at a dealership in my town.

Word of warning, For those into trucks, Or have friends who are into trucks. The warranty claims for people adding on Bullydog, Edge, ect style programmers and causing damage to engine's and transmissions has been retardedly excessive and with the Owners taking the aftermarket units out to bring the vehicle into the D/Ship for warranty work to make it look stock, trying to prove in the past that the customer had modified the vehicle programing has been the issue. According to our Tech Assistance you give them the major assembly fault (IE specific trans fault or engine fault) and they can tell you exactly what programmer setup the customer uses as they now know which style of programmer causes common related engine or trans breakage. Its that bad.

GM has worked a way around this programmer issue now.

You can now view with the Scan tool and its part of all any major assembly fault inspection to have to scan the History Programing calibrations and search for any 'non GM" calibration id numbers. You can view all the Current and History calibration ID numbers that have been used with the PCM/ECM unit.

We just denied warranty on a customers 08 Duramax that has a blown head gasket. 2000$ parts, 40+ hours of labour due to there is a non GM calibration ID# in the history. Dumbfounded with the news he replied " I was told by the shop that installed the programer that GM would never know I had one in there"

The problem will lie now trying to find a shop that will not scan for this. As with all Warranty work GM audits and mulls over all Warranty claims trying to find a loop hole to not pay the dealership for the repairs if all i's are not dotted and not all t's crossed. IF they want to be dicks, they could deny claims that shops have performed on these vehicles if they did not scan for history calibration faults. Like I say, they know what problems are caused by Controllers. So with the d/ship not wanting to loose their $ for parts and labour spent already and have the claim kicked back and have to be eaten by themselfs. I'm sure most D/ships will be scanning history programming calibrations.

Buyer beware, Just a heads up/word of warning.

If these aftermarket programmers are causing so many problems in the first place :think: (that people are taking the trucks to the dealership to get fixed ...)

... I've gotta wonder, just how "good" are these programmers anyways, and are the "gains" REALLY worth it?! :rolleyes: :shrug:

I can't really feel sorry for people wanting to do whatever the hell they please with their vehicles, and then expecting the company to pick up the cost of repairs. Be a man, have some integrity, suck it up, and pay.

I can't really feel sorry for people wanting to do whatever the hell they please with their vehicles, and then expecting the company to pick up the cost of repairs. Be a man, have some integrity, suck it up, and pay.

AGREED!

I can't really feel sorry for people wanting to do whatever the hell they please with their vehicles, and then expecting the company to pick up the cost of repairs. Be a man, have some integrity, suck it up, and pay.

What? You mean you expect people to be honest? That is complete nonsense. :p

GM uses a rich A/F mixture that burns cleaner and the power programmers lean it out. Results are more power and better fuel mileage. I was happy with the lowest setting of +55hp on my Bullydog programmer for towing. The people that are trying to push 150-200hp are idiots and deserve a large repair bill. The trans just wont take it and the EGTs go way up.

Wait a sec...

The OEM's integrity relative to honoring warrantys isn't exactly stellar either. They'll lie, cheat, steal and obfuscate as badly as ANY customer.

Remember piston slap? Oil guzzling LS1's? Trying to deny warranty work for a lid or an air filter in direct violation of the Manguson-Moss warranty act?

Or shall we talk about media darling Toyota and the engine sludge bull****, or ultra-flimsy tailgates?

Now, I'm not advocating dishonesty here, but I'm here to tell you that at least in the RECENT past, ALL OF THE OEM's I am familiar with, and the dealers, were as dishonest as the people described above.

The truly annoying thing is when GM KNOWS there is an issue, and still resists every attempt to get the issue fixed on a new car.

What we get is a circle of dishonesty, where the customers lie, the dealers lie, the OEM's lie... everybody lies.

What we get is a circle of dishonesty, where the customers lie, the dealers lie, the OEM's lie... everybody lies.

Pretty much the reason I don't think warrenties are worth the paper they are written on on anything that is ever considered in the relam of a car people mod.
I tell them they can keep the warrenty and instead give me more money off.
When they question why. I say because you probably won't honor it anyway without hassle.

I can't really feel sorry for people wanting to do whatever the hell they please with their vehicles, and then expecting the company to pick up the cost of repairs. Be a man, have some integrity, suck it up, and pay.Exactly.

Wait a sec...

The OEM's integrity relative to honoring warrantys isn't exactly stellar either. They'll lie, cheat, steal and obfuscate as badly as ANY customer.

Remember piston slap? Oil guzzling LS1's? Trying to deny warranty work for a lid or an air filter in direct violation of the Manguson-Moss warranty act?

Or shall we talk about media darling Toyota and the engine sludge bull****, or ultra-flimsy tailgates?

Now, I'm not advocating dishonesty here, but I'm here to tell you that at least in the RECENT past, ALL OF THE OEM's I am familiar with, and the dealers, were as dishonest as the people described above.

The truly annoying thing is when GM KNOWS there is an issue, and still resists every attempt to get the issue fixed on a new car.

What we get is a circle of dishonesty, where the customers lie, the dealers lie, the OEM's lie... everybody lies.How many LS1's really had anything wrong with the motor? Most oil usage issues were from idiots wanting to constantly cruise in the upper rpm of 2nd or 3rd gear instead of upshifting and getting into a lower rpm. As for piston slap most people never had that, just an aluminumn block that was noisey when you first started the motor. As for the warranty denials, good for GM, some of the crap people bring in and expect them to fix is beyond ridiculous. SRT-4 owners are the worst for this. I would get the 2nd degree from Dodge anytime I brought my car in for anything, they checked it up and down trying to find something to deny my warranty. Never seen another car that the dealerships treated like that.

Mistubishi is trying to do this as well. With the Evo 8's and 9's there was a program that let you tune you car to your hearts delight, whether you knew what you were doing or not. I think puting some kind of log in there to detect stuff like this is a no brainer for the manufacturers

If these aftermarket programmers are causing so many problems in the first place :think: (that people are taking the trucks to the dealership to get fixed ...)

... I've gotta wonder, just how "good" are these programmers anyways, and are the "gains" REALLY worth it?! :rolleyes: :shrug:

NO. I own a SuperDuty and use it like a rented mule. If it's running, it's either got a load on it or it's heading to get one. It's too expensive to use for a joy-rider.

I've had 15k in/on my truck running interstates - NEVER felt a need for more power. 10k on a trailer and 2k in the bed, cruising in Overdrive at 70-75mph - NO PROBLEM. 520lb-ft of torque is HUGE in stock trim. WTF do I need 600 or 680 for?!?! To burn more fuel getting to 60mph 5 seconds faster?!?! :no:

I've had buddys add propane kits, turbo kits, flash the EProm, and everything else. They start talking about querks and glitches and needing this and that. I get in my truck and go to work. Yes, they can beat me off the line at a stoplight. Whoopty-friggin-doo. It's a diesel work truck that weighs over 6000 lbs empty... is THAT what I want to drag race in? It's hardly why I bought the truck.

Interesting story - just 2 weeks ago I let my company slide a fast one in on me. We needed to get a molding tool to a shop for immediate repairs - down at 1pm, needed to run for an order due the next day. I found a shop that would take the job and get the tool back to us by 11pm so we could run it on 3rd, but we had to get it to him by 5pm. He was 16 miles away. Our company has a van, but no truck. They knew I had a truck and asked me if I'd deliver the tool. I asked the change-over guy what the tool weighed - he replied that he used a 5000lb electric lift to move the tool and it was no strain on the lift, so he guessed about 3000lbs or so.
Short story - as they put the tool in the back of my truck, I noticed it was sinking pretty severely. Right when I called the forklift operator to stop, the forks came free. I've never had my truck squat this much before, so I was pretty skeptical. Well, I got to the tool shop and the guys came out to look at the tool and unload it. 1 of the guys started wiping the oil and fibers and dust off the tool and made a comment, "D@mn, you got a helluva truck." Gloating a bit, I agreed with him and told him it's been a great one. This tool was a little more than I bargained for, but it handled the load pretty good. He responded to me calmly, "I wouldn't even think of putting 4400 lbs in my truck. You got me liking Fords pretty good if you treat yours like this and it's still going for you."
Yes, as he was wiping the tool down, he uncovered where the weight had been hand-stamped into the tool - 4378 lbs. After looking at this, I told him that I don't typically do such things, and that I was going to yank a knot in someone's head when I got back to the plant. I did have words with our changeover tech and threatened his future mobility if he ever hung me out like that again.

Point is, Capn Pete is spot on - such modifications are NOT WORTH THE COST OR IMPROVED PERFORMANCE - especially while the vehicle is under warranty. If it's older, needs a new engine or rebuild, or if you are doing a custom-job on one, great - go for it. However, it's my experience that a new superduty truck comes from the factory with enough power and capability to do anything the average guy can throw at it. If you mod it, you should pay for it.

As for PacerX's comments - I agree 100% It's a circle jerk.
None of the liars are the losers - they get what they deserve even if they "lose".
The REAL LOSERS are the few honest guys (on either side) because the liars have spoiled it for everyone and the honest dude really get's a load in the loins.
Sort of takes us back to the new American Business Model that has prospered so well for the last few decades, huh?
You know the one.."Love thy dollar above all else, Me first, Max my profits, Screw whomever/whatever you need to for money...etc.":shame:

NO. I own a SuperDuty and use it like a rented mule. If it's running, it's either got a load on it or it's heading to get one. It's too expensive to use for a joy-rider.

I've had 15k in/on my truck running interstates - NEVER felt a need for more power. 10k on a trailer and 2k in the bed, cruising in Overdrive at 70-75mph - NO PROBLEM. 520lb-ft of torque is HUGE in stock trim. WTF do I need 600 or 680 for?!?! To burn more fuel getting to 60mph 5 seconds faster?!?! :no:

I've had buddys add propane kits, turbo kits, flash the EProm, and everything else. They start talking about querks and glitches and needing this and that. I get in my truck and go to work. Yes, they can beat me off the line at a stoplight. Whoopty-friggin-doo. It's a diesel work truck that weighs over 6000 lbs empty... is THAT what I want to drag race in? It's hardly why I bought the truck.

Interesting story - just 2 weeks ago I let my company slide a fast one in on me. We needed to get a molding tool to a shop for immediate repairs - down at 1pm, needed to run for an order due the next day. I found a shop that would take the job and get the tool back to us by 11pm so we could run it on 3rd, but we had to get it to him by 5pm. He was 16 miles away. Our company has a van, but no truck. They knew I had a truck and asked me if I'd deliver the tool. I asked the change-over guy what the tool weighed - he replied that he used a 5000lb electric lift to move the tool and it was no strain on the lift, so he guessed about 3000lbs or so.
Short story - as they put the tool in the back of my truck, I noticed it was sinking pretty severely. Right when I called the forklift operator to stop, the forks came free. I've never had my truck squat this much before, so I was pretty skeptical. Well, I got to the tool shop and the guys came out to look at the tool and unload it. 1 of the guys started wiping the oil and fibers and dust off the tool and made a comment, "D@mn, you got a helluva truck." Gloating a bit, I agreed with him and told him it's been a great one. This tool was a little more than I bargained for, but it handled the load pretty good. He responded to me calmly, "I wouldn't even think of putting 4400 lbs in my truck. You got me liking Fords pretty good if you treat yours like this and it's still going for you."
Yes, as he was wiping the tool down, he uncovered where the weight had been hand-stamped into the tool - 4378 lbs. After looking at this, I told him that I don't typically do such things, and that I was going to yank a knot in someone's head when I got back to the plant. I did have words with our changeover tech and threatened his future mobility if he ever hung me out like that again.

Point is, Capn Pete is spot on - such modifications are NOT WORTH THE COST OR IMPROVED PERFORMANCE - especially while the vehicle is under warranty. If it's older, needs a new engine or rebuild, or if you are doing a custom-job on one, great - go for it. However, it's my experience that a new superduty truck comes from the factory with enough power and capability to do anything the average guy can throw at it. If you mod it, you should pay for it.

As for PacerX's comments - I agree 100% It's a circle jerk.
None of the liars are the losers - they get what they deserve even if they "lose".
The REAL LOSERS are the few honest guys (on either side) because the liars have spoiled it for everyone and the honest dude really get's a load in the loins.
Sort of takes us back to the new American Business Model that has prospered so well for the last few decades, huh?
You know the one.."Love thy dollar above all else, Me first, Max my profits, Screw whomever/whatever you need to for money...etc.":shame:

QFT

I work the hell out of my Duramax/Alison Silverado and have no desire to mod it.

QFT

I work the hell out of my Duramax/Alison Silverado and have no desire to mod it.Allison has two Ls, Mr.

:D

:cool:

I think this is good. It isn't a manufacturers job to fix broken parts from your aftermarket modifications.

Of course, this only applies if the aftermarket parts installed directly relate to the failure of the OEM equipment. None of this airfilter caused rear to lock up BS...

How many LS1's really had anything wrong with the motor? Most oil usage issues were from idiots wanting to constantly cruise in the upper rpm of 2nd or 3rd gear instead of upshifting and getting into a lower rpm. As for piston slap most people never had that, just an aluminumn block that was noisey when you first started the motor. As for the warranty denials, good for GM, some of the crap people bring in and expect them to fix is beyond ridiculous. SRT-4 owners are the worst for this. I would get the 2nd degree from Dodge anytime I brought my car in for anything, they checked it up and down trying to find something to deny my warranty. Never seen another car that the dealerships treated like that.

MY LS1 both slapped and drank a quart in 600 miles, and I went through World War 3 with a dealership trying to get it fixed.

Rare?

Ummmm....

NO.

There was most assuredly an issue with the engine blocks from the 2001-2002 era, and I've measure more than my fair share myself showing oversized bores.

The problem is not necessarily that GM had a problem - the problem was that they constantly tried to weasel out of it instead of manning up and admitting they had blown it - and then fixing the cars without making their customers jump through hoop after hoop after hoop.


Now, I'm a GM fan, always have been... but sometimes the truth is the truth and folks have to face up to it.

Of course, this only applies if the aftermarket parts installed directly relate to the failure of the OEM equipment. None of this airfilter caused rear to lock up BS...

Agreed... but good luck if they find the air filter...

Allison has two Ls, Mr.

:D

:cool:


oops.:cool:

It's amazing what can be done with modern electronics and software, huh? Actually, tracking the calibration history is something that some powertrain modules have had the ability to do for years; I'm kinda surprised that GM is only now using this to deny warranty claims.

But as PacerX stated, the OEMs have indeed demonstrated a long history of slimy behavoir, and it's not surprising in the least that customers feel no shame in trying to "play the game".

BTW, it should be interesting to see how many of these newer trucks get blown up by tuners. Sure, back in the day when the OEMs were sloppier with their own tunes and we were getting only 250 HP from the factory, it was easy to find safe gains. But now, with 20 PSI of boost being used to get 360 HP from a 6.6L engine, maybe it's not so wise to assume that a couple of guys in a rented office building are smarter than the Big 3 powertrain engineers :lol:

... maybe it's not so wise to assume that a couple of guys in a rented office building are smarter than the Big 3 powertrain engineers :lol:

It's not always that they're smarter, but rather they're willing to make different trade-offs that the OEMs can't or won't make, e.g. worse fuel economy, worse emissions, less durabilty, less concern for other powertrain components such as trannies, etc.

<---- Ford 7.3L+ 90mm turbo, custom tune, intercooler, exhaust, intake, turbo timer, lift, 36" tires, etc.... 110K, father purchased new

only issue: blew the stock turbo (his fault, runs to FD calls and shuts down hot. Stock boost 15psi reset to 30 haha)

Buddies/works/other friends 6.0L bone stock= trans, rods, valves, ecu, fuel system failures. More time in shop than on road.

"is it worth it"
uhhh look at your camaros! do you guys really need 500+hp street cars...NO
do you want it...YES

It's not always that they're smarter, but rather they're willing to make different trade-offs that the OEMs can't or won't make, e.g. worse fuel economy, worse emissions, less durabilty, less concern for other powertrain components such as trannies, etc.

And how many of those tuners are straightforward and upfront about these trade-offs? Many of them seem to overlook these compromises in their marketing literature, and then hide behind the SEMA/OEM agreement when something goes wrong.

I can't really feel sorry for people wanting to do whatever the hell they please with their vehicles, and then expecting the company to pick up the cost of repairs. Be a man, have some integrity, suck it up, and pay.

Cobalt Owners have been really bad about that. They would buy a smaller pulley and some larger injectors and not program the car. (or go with a mail order program.) They wouldn't have air/fuel gauge and then when thier crap blew up they would put the stock parts on and take it in.

Pretty much the reason I don't think warrenties are worth the paper they are written on on anything that is ever considered in the relam of a car people mod.
I tell them they can keep the warrenty and instead give me more money off.
When they question why. I say because you probably won't honor it anyway without hassle.

I've never had an issue with any warrenty work on my Camaro or my Cobalt. :shrug: Guess it all depends on your dealer.

And how many of those tuners are straightforward and upfront about these trade-offs? Many of them seem to overlook these compromises in their marketing literature, and then hide behind the SEMA/OEM agreement when something goes wrong.

That's very true.

They NEVER validate anything like the OEM's do.

That being said, they really can't in many cases. The money it would require is astronomical.

For a Cobalt SS, given what you can get from GM (a complete hp upgrade kit, ready to roll, WITH a warranty), I don't see a whole lot of sense in going to the aftermarket. Back in the F4 Camaro days, such a thing wasn't available that would net any large gains.

Regardless, the aftermarket upgrade area is fertile ground for GM to explore, even to this day. I firmly believe that they could make even more money on both ends (new sales and aftermarket parts sales) with some more effort there.

I agree, not worth wrecking your diesel or Auto trans trying to get an extra 100ft torque out. The modern diesel from the big 3 is pretty impressive out of the box!

I dont care for warrenties much either,.

My GTO is 100% mechanically stock and when I was complaining about the shifting and clutch they tried everything to build a defense that it was my fault. (my tires have all even wear and over 20K with still great tread) I dont drive hard at all:mad:

Fortunately my warrenty soon expired and I can be free of that service department:mad:

I agree, not worth wrecking your diesel or Auto trans trying to get an extra 100ft torque out. The modern diesel from the big 3 is pretty impressive out of the box!

I dont care for warrenties much either,.

My GTO is 100% mechanically stock and when I was complaining about the shifting and clutch they tried everything to build a defense that it was my fault. (my tires have all even wear and over 20K with still great tread) I dont drive hard at all:mad:

Fortunately my warrenty soon expired and I can be free of that service department:mad:

You can take the car to any GM dealer.

If you don't like the Pontiac dealer's service department, drive down the road to the Chevy dealer and use him.

Where you buy the car, or what division is marketing it is irrelevant.

what if someone bought a used truck that still had a warrenty, but had been tuned and put back to stock before trade in. would they be SOL if it needed warrenty services? or would a dealer actually take note of it before taking it in as a trade in?

NO. I own a SuperDuty and use it like a rented mule. If it's running, it's either got a load on it or it's heading to get one. It's too expensive to use for a joy-rider.

I've had 15k in/on my truck running interstates - NEVER felt a need for more power. 10k on a trailer and 2k in the bed, cruising in Overdrive at 70-75mph - NO PROBLEM. 520lb-ft of torque is HUGE in stock trim. WTF do I need 600 or 680 for?!?! To burn more fuel getting to 60mph 5 seconds faster?!?! :no:

I've had buddys add propane kits, turbo kits, flash the EProm, and everything else. They start talking about querks and glitches and needing this and that. I get in my truck and go to work. Yes, they can beat me off the line at a stoplight. Whoopty-friggin-doo. It's a diesel work truck that weighs over 6000 lbs empty... is THAT what I want to drag race in? It's hardly why I bought the truck.

Interesting story - just 2 weeks ago I let my company slide a fast one in on me. We needed to get a molding tool to a shop for immediate repairs - down at 1pm, needed to run for an order due the next day. I found a shop that would take the job and get the tool back to us by 11pm so we could run it on 3rd, but we had to get it to him by 5pm. He was 16 miles away. Our company has a van, but no truck. They knew I had a truck and asked me if I'd deliver the tool. I asked the change-over guy what the tool weighed - he replied that he used a 5000lb electric lift to move the tool and it was no strain on the lift, so he guessed about 3000lbs or so.
Short story - as they put the tool in the back of my truck, I noticed it was sinking pretty severely. Right when I called the forklift operator to stop, the forks came free. I've never had my truck squat this much before, so I was pretty skeptical. Well, I got to the tool shop and the guys came out to look at the tool and unload it. 1 of the guys started wiping the oil and fibers and dust off the tool and made a comment, "D@mn, you got a helluva truck." Gloating a bit, I agreed with him and told him it's been a great one. This tool was a little more than I bargained for, but it handled the load pretty good. He responded to me calmly, "I wouldn't even think of putting 4400 lbs in my truck. You got me liking Fords pretty good if you treat yours like this and it's still going for you."
Yes, as he was wiping the tool down, he uncovered where the weight had been hand-stamped into the tool - 4378 lbs. After looking at this, I told him that I don't typically do such things, and that I was going to yank a knot in someone's head when I got back to the plant. I did have words with our changeover tech and threatened his future mobility if he ever hung me out like that again.

Point is, Capn Pete is spot on - such modifications are NOT WORTH THE COST OR IMPROVED PERFORMANCE - especially while the vehicle is under warranty. If it's older, needs a new engine or rebuild, or if you are doing a custom-job on one, great - go for it. However, it's my experience that a new superduty truck comes from the factory with enough power and capability to do anything the average guy can throw at it. If you mod it, you should pay for it.

As for PacerX's comments - I agree 100% It's a circle jerk.
None of the liars are the losers - they get what they deserve even if they "lose".
The REAL LOSERS are the few honest guys (on either side) because the liars have spoiled it for everyone and the honest dude really get's a load in the loins.
Sort of takes us back to the new American Business Model that has prospered so well for the last few decades, huh?
You know the one.."Love thy dollar above all else, Me first, Max my profits, Screw whomever/whatever you need to for money...etc.":shame:
QFT again, was gonna do it first, then the guy right below you did it. But ill do it anyways. :yes:

How many LS1's really had anything wrong with the motor? Most oil usage issues were from idiots wanting to constantly cruise in the upper rpm of 2nd or 3rd gear instead of upshifting and getting into a lower rpm. As for piston slap most people never had that, just an aluminumn block that was noisey when you first started the motor. As for the warranty denials, good for GM, some of the crap people bring in and expect them to fix is beyond ridiculous. SRT-4 owners are the worst for this. I would get the 2nd degree from Dodge anytime I brought my car in for anything, they checked it up and down trying to find something to deny my warranty. Never seen another car that the dealerships treated like that.

What planet are you from and how many light years from reality is that planet?!!!!!!

I can easily name half a dozen people (not including myself) that have LS1 powered F-bodies that have piston slap (mines sounds like a diesel till it reaches temp) and consumes oil.

You mention the engine tends to be noisy when it starts up... what the hell do you think that noise is????... that's frigging piston slap!

GM had issues with this when the LS1s were under development (read: "All Corvettes Are Red" which touches on a couple of very familiar issues in the LS1 running behind schedule). The recall on LS1 F-body catalytic converters is rooted in the fact that LS1s are oil burners and they cause a high incidence of premature cat failures.

Sure, the LS1 puts out a high amount of horsepower and gets very good gas mileage. But don't for a minute pretend these engines are 100% perfect. They aren't. The issues the engine isn't is the result of people over revving their engines. It can exasperate this, but the LS1's piston slap & oil consumption is a design flaw that's been well reported.

As for SRT-4 engines, I personally know a person who had their entire engine replaced under warranty. Chrysler in general has been very good about honoring warranties. Dealers on the other hand (to be honest) are spotty.

The issues the engine isn't is the result of people over revving their engines. It can exasperate this, but the LS1's piston slap & oil consumption is a design flaw that's been well reported.


That's not a 'problem', though.

Great, another way for dealers to get out of warranty work.

Don't get me wrong, I know GM isn't responsible for fixing a transmission if the owner has been modding the hell out of of his/her engine, but dealers are going to take this very far.

I can't wait until:

A) Dealer refuses to replace guy's radio because he's adjusted his shift points.

B) Dealer tells dumbfounded soccer mom they aren't doing a thing to fix her Tahoe because their scanner found some foreign code.

what if someone bought a used truck that still had a warrenty, but had been tuned and put back to stock before trade in. would they be SOL if it needed warrenty services? or would a dealer actually take note of it before taking it in as a trade in?

It would probably make for an interesting fight. But if the dealer advertised it as having a warranty when he sold it (which I'm sure he would), and you took it back to him for a subsequent problem, I don't see how he could legitimately deny it. It would be interesting to know if GM can determine when the tuning was put in and returned to stock.

Great, another way for dealers to get out of warranty work.

Don't get me wrong, I know GM isn't responsible for fixing a transmission if the owner has been modding the hell out of of his/her engine, but dealers are going to take this very far.

I can't wait until:

A) Dealer refuses to replace guy's radio because he's adjusted his shift points.

B) Dealer tells dumbfounded soccer mom they aren't doing a thing to fix her Tahoe because their scanner found some foreign code.

The Magnuson-Moss act addresses your scenario A; a manufacturer cannot deny warranty coverage for a component not directly affected by an owner's modifications.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson-Moss_Warranty_Act

That's not a 'problem', though.

I'm not really sure it was a design flaw. Given the bores I have personally measured, I think it was a manufacturing defect.

The rule of thumb now on any early LSx block, including LS6's and 6.0's is to bore 'em .005" over and re-piston them if you're doing a performance rebuild... welllll... I take that back... ANY rebuild.

This is your best bet for knocking out both piston slap AND oil consumption. I really don't think the Napier-style rings made a ****'s worth of difference. What did eventually change was GM starting boring the blocks to the proper dimensions.

Betcha a dozen doughnuts that on a at least one cylinder you won't be removing a whole lot of material with a .005" overbore... If you're brave enough to bet me dinner, I'll bet you I can name which one specifically it is (possibly along with others)... That's how consistent it is.



Now, and let's just lay the cards out on the table and be honest here...

GM and their dealerships spent lord knows how much time and effort and outright hot air trying to bull**** owners into the idea that their DRIVING HABITS had something to do with this. OR... alternately... looking for any excuse they could find to void a warranty at every level all the way up to area service reps.

Maybe ignorance was part of the problem in the diagnosis stage, but there was a willful campaign to mislead and obfuscate and re-direct blame to the owners during this time period.

I have precious little tolerance for anyone who wants me to feel bad about people committing some type of warranty fraud on GM with their car on a onesy-twosy basis, when an entire platform of engines, of which MILLIONS were made, were part of a deliberate campaign to either outright deny or make the warranty repairs so difficult to get as to make them functionally impossible to receive in many cases.

I'll never forget the look on the face of the guy in front of me in line at John Bowman Chevrolet when he was told that his brand new truck burning a quart of oil every 800 miles was normal and they weren't going to fix it.

BTW... it's still the best performance motor in the world, and in my book has caught and passed the venerable small-block Chevy in that regard.