95 Trans Am vs. 98 Trans Am-both modded

Everyone,
a good friend of mine has challenged me to a race, from a roll of about 30mph. He has a 98 Trans Am LS1 with these mods- LS6 intake, Hooker long tubes, SLP air induction, duals that dump at the axle, Nitrous pistons, (not sprayed), 6 speed with hurst shifter, 4.10 gears, his heads are stock also. Hes got a fairly large cam in it as well, don't know the specs. Both cars have street tires. Seeing my mods in the sig, Will I outrun him with my A4? Any good technique that would increase my distance from him?

Dude, if you don't out run him I'd be pissed off. Unless your car is some overweight pig with 500lbs of stereo equipment in the back you should beat him.

Why not race from a dead stop?

Naw it doesnt have any stereo equip in it. We both dont like the idea of racing from a stop since we both have the stock 10 bolt and dont want to screw it up, so we said about 30mph to be safe.

I highly encourage you to take it to the track.

Too many unknown variables. Why not take it to the track to get real #'s?

i agree with taking it to the track

Cammed LS1s can hit 10s. I'd personally either do it on the street up to 100, or if LSx man needs to show his über topend pull take it to the track.

I bet it's a close race. With him winning on the extreme high end and you down low. So the lower the start the better off you'll be. Especially with the stalled auto.

Cammed LS1s can hit 10s. I'd personally either do it on the street up to 100, or if LSx man needs to show his über topend pull take it to the track.

I bet it's a close race. With him winning on the extreme high end and you down low. So the lower the start the better off you'll be. Especially with the stalled auto.

show me a cammed ls1 car running 10's

show me a cammed ls1 car running 10's


I don't think it will happen. :no:

ya cam and spray!!!

im sure with cam and spray. But i highly doubt it with just cam. BTW, the guy i will race is not spraying.

you will win!!

I wish my confidence was as high as urs, his TA just sounds so effin badass with those dumps. Does anyone suggest a good way of driving mine to be able to pull away from him? From a 30mph roll.

show me a cammed ls1 car running 10's


Ask and ye shall receive:

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=346770
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=926113

Check out these BOLT ON ONLY #s:
The top one on the list is the LS1 BOLT ON RECORD HOLDER.
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=273788

The LS1 heads are VERY VERY VERY good from the factory. As you can see it doesn't even take a cam to get to the LOW 11s and in one dudes case (the bolt on record holder) 10s. So add a cam into that list and yeah.

LS1 as much as I hate to say it is FAR superior to the LT1. But, I will NEVER trade up. I am die-hard LT1. But I am not ignorant to their power.

And the best part is that this http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=346770 was done 3 years ago.

Roll racing is for weinies and 03/04 Cobra's:p

I would play it safe and take to the track just as few others have mentioned. As for the race I would say that you should have the upper hand. Cam only 10 second LS1 cars are definately out there as shown above but they are a little more rare than it seems. I tend to look at those cars the same way that I look at Shon Herron's car. Definately not something that you just throw in and "Viola!" a 10 second car.

Im only roll racing because i'd like to have a still working stock 10bolt when i finish racing, and he feels the same way.

Ask and ye shall receive:

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=346770
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=926113

Check out these BOLT ON ONLY #s:
The top one on the list is the LS1 BOLT ON RECORD HOLDER.
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=273788

The LS1 heads are VERY VERY VERY good from the factory. As you can see it doesn't even take a cam to get to the LOW 11s and in one dudes case (the bolt on record holder) 10s. So add a cam into that list and yeah.

LS1 as much as I hate to say it is FAR superior to the LT1. But, I will NEVER trade up. I am die-hard LT1. But I am not ignorant to their power.

I'd say those lightweight purpose built cars are polar opposites of these 2 cars.

I'd say those lightweight purpose built cars are polar opposites of these 2 cars.


precisely

If hes an m6 and your an a4 why wouldnt want to race from stop. You have a decent stall, do a heads up race from a stop. He is a thousand times more likely to break something in the rear than you.

Next, LS cam only motors have gone realy fast. They can make up to 420, 435rwhp, beware he may have just as much power as you. He may also have spray which wouldnt be good for you. Dont take this as a in the bag win. It may not be.

The launch shock is what breaks rears. If you launch easy and then get on it you will likely have more than a few passes in the rear if it is in decent condition. I got over 400 passes out of mine, rebuilt it and got another 400 before switching to the 12 bolt.

Strokers usually have a lot of torque and I would almost be more concerned with spinning the tranny if you actually can hook up.

I know most of the time evrything goes right and people have fun and then go home, but I have seen far too many acciednets from flat tires to animals crossing the street to ever street race again, not to mention the huge hit on insurance if you get caught. I suspect the added preiums may even be more expensive than that the rear you are concerned about breaking...

Also a driveshaft loop is a real good thing if you don't already have one. There is nothing like seeing a driveshaft come through the floorboards to get the adrenaline flowing. Thanks to me, even street cars at my track have to have a blanket or shield if they have been modified. Not that the rule was y idea but after my tranny exploded during a burnout a few years back the track higher-ups instituted the rule.

I'd say those lightweight purpose built cars are polar opposites of these 2 cars.

Ok, isn't that what you did basically? I'm not raggin on you, but you have a purposeful bolt on only setup to try to go as fast as you can. Am I right?

Now you guys who just discounted those time show me an LT1 ANY LT1 with the same times with similar mods.

Show me one.

You can't. I love my LT1, but I'm not deluded. Some of you are.

Ok, isn't that what you did basically? I'm not raggin on you, but you have a purposeful bolt on only setup to try to go as fast as you can. Am I right?

Now you guys who just discounted those time show me an LT1 ANY LT1 with the same times with similar mods.

Show me one.

You can't. I love my LT1, but I'm not deluded. Some of you are.

Nope my car was never built for that purpose it just happens to fit. I still drive my car on the street, my car runs on radials on all 4 corners and is not gutted to the core. Heck I run a convertor that was built in the mid 1970's that I bought off E-bay All this equals hardly built for the job at hand.

I've stated this before if somebody really went after the "LT1 bolt-on only" deal they could run 11.30's or better, granted its not as fast as the LS1 dilly but considering whats there for a LT1 cylinder head that would be flying.

Nobody is kidding anybody that an LT1 in any where near factory form can run with the equally built LSx , however the LT1 powered car in question should be able to handle this ls1, not one of the ones listed in the fastest bolt-on LS1 list

So are most of us in agreement that i should pull this win off? I really do not wanna get my ass handed to me in front of about 70+ people ya know?

More than likely You'll win by a lot, but there's a chance that that's one hell of a cam. That's all I was saying.

yes ur right it could be. Before we thought about racing he was telling me about he'd like to get a smaller cam, i guess to be more streetable so... that might be a red flag, but we'll see i guess. I appreciate the inputs.

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2961519 -- heres mine for a detailed list of mods.

Just make sure you get rid of the extra crap in your car (spare tire, floor mats, jack assembly, CD collection and etc.) lighter weight is your friend.

Do you know anything about this guys driving ability?
If hes complaining that the cam is too big, he has 4.10's, and knows how to dirve you may be in trouble.
Like i said before, a cammed ls1 can be a very fast car. Chances are you ll win easy, but you never know.
I would try to get him to go from a stop. Let you a4 and stall do their job off the line.

What kind of tires will both of you be running?

If you are going from a roll, spend a little time with a gear ratio / RPM program. First figure out where in the RPM range your car will be at what RPM based on your tranny and rear gear ratio. Then figure out the same info for his car (manual with 4.10 gears). Then pick a speed that is the best for you. 30 MPH may be slow enough for your car to kick-down to first. Immediately your stall lets the engine rev to what may be higher than your best torque output (bad for you) and then it will shift. His car might be in its sweet spot and he could put a couple of lengths on you and getting that back will be difficult. Also figure that a lot of people do bad thigs when they are behind in a race. Over-revving a 6-speed trying to make up ground (since they are convinced higher is better) is a common theme.

Put the odds in your favor and you have a better than even chance. He can always miss a gear or other. I think you have the advantage at the strip since your converter helps a lot with torque down low. Again getting out front seems to be a key factor when running people who may seldom actually "race" their car.

Have fun but BE SAFE ....

Later ... Larry S.

slomaro- he definetly knows about cars since he works as a mechanic, as far as being able to drive good, i don't know really. But thats what im afraid of-- i would like to use my stall and a4 off the line, but i don't want to send too much shock through a basically stock driveline and come away with something seriously damaged. I believe everyone is right about my advantage from a stop- which i'd like to race from. Maybe i'll get over myself and go easy from a stop. BTW, both of us are on street tires, mine being BFGoodrich G-Force 275/40/17. with his being similar size. I'm at about 40psi in the rears, what do u think i should have it at so i dont have alot of spin? 25-30psi?


Mislman- thanks for that info i just might try that, ur right i hope he'll miss a gear and i think that would be it for him. Thanks and we'll be safe.

i hope he'll miss a gear and i think that would be it for him.

Hollow victory!

yea thanks

Just remember, it aint' the end of the world. It's a freakin car race. In normal society, nobody cares.

yea i know, Even if i do lose i'll still be faster than 75% of the cars watching which are mostly tuners. lol

Guys have gone 10's on stock rears, I not saying yours is bulletproof, but I think your okay for this one. what gears do you run? stall?

What kind of g force tires? Kdw, KDW II, KD?
40psi is way too much, try 22 or 24.

I think your worrying too much about the rear, if anything he should be worried and only should be if hes running a very sitcky tire. Otherwise he ll just spin, spinning the tires will never hurt the rear.

Read up about auto's and 10 bolts. They last a while for them. Mainly because a a4 preloads the rear and the ring and pinion. Which is much better than dumping or slipping the clutch on a m6 car.

Do a serach, Im not saying it to be an ass. You will find endless threads about it, hopefully when done you will have a better understanding of the mechanics of it. Also you will know how and what to do so you dont break it. (launching the car)

Right now it has 3.73 gears, with a Vigilante 2800 TC and the tires are G'Force KDWS. yea i need to read up a bit on this subject, I'll see what i can find. Thanks

Get a rearend "brace" for your stock rearend. Basically a reaend cover with two bolts and locknuts in the cover. With the rearend brace/cover bolted inplace, you seat the bolts down against the rearend caps and lock them in place with the lock nuts. This helps prevent the caps "walking" a little when the rearend is loaded at launch and the launch makes the gears try and walk out of the housing. When the gears move the teeth don't mesh cokmpletely and you can chip a gear tooth and/or have major rearend carnage.

I had over 200 drag strip launches on drag radials with my T/A running high low 12's to high 11's with no damage to the rearend (3.73 gears).


Later ... Larry S.

hopefully im gonna run with him this weekend, im thinkin about havin someone in the passenger with a camera so i can post it up maybe.

Leave the passenger watching from outside of the car, are you crazy adding extra weight??!!

dam, i cant believe i didnt think about doing that. LOL. yea im crazy for thinking bout adding weight.

your fine.
air pressure around 25psi

your fine.
air pressure around 25psi

The very best way to set the rear air pressure is to get to a secluded spot and lay a small patch. Check to see if it's even all the way across. If it is then let the pressure down an couple of psi and patch again. Keep doing this untill the patch starts looking thinner/lighter black in the middle then go up 2 psi and you now know for sure what pressure you should run with your tires for best traction during a launch.

I have never seen a cammed LS1 here in ga run anywhere near 10 as a matter of fact high 11's, cars that are modified comes down to driving stroker LT-1 VS CAMMED LS-1 I will take LT-1 all day.

I have never seen a cammed LS1 here in ga run anywhere near 10 as a matter of fact high 11's, cars that are modified comes down to driving stroker LT-1 VS CAMMED LS-1 I will take LT-1 all day.

There's a local LS nutswinger that has thus far only mustered a 12.9 (I think) with a cam. He then proceeds to make fun of LT1s.

He then proceeds to make fun of LT1s.



What a dumbass. :lol:

There's a local LS nutswinger that has thus far only mustered a 12.9 (I think) with a cam. He then proceeds to make fun of LT1s.

What's the altitude of the track where he ran that number?

And what does your LT1 run at the same track and conditions?

What's the altitude of the track where he ran that number?

And what does your LT1 run at the same track and conditions?

1200 elevation. Firebird International Raceway.

I don't have anything but stock times for my car.

I also have learned that he has gotten the time down to 12.5

Well turns out i found out a little more about my friends 98 Trans Am. Hes got what i believe he called the "Magic stick 3" cam in it, havent heard about it but he said the size is like .603/.609 w/113 lsa. Also his heads are milled and polished from what he said. He raced a what looked like Honda hatchback last night that looked like a sh!tbox and sounded like it too. The only thing is, this car was outrunning every tuner out there. So they take off from a dig (T/A spinning pretty badly) and the honda has him by half a car. Half way down the road his LS1 performs like a jet and blows the honda's doors off. Turns out the honda was spraying a 200 shot and other mods unknown. All in all last night there was plenty of street races in my city and it was fun watching them. Just thought i'd let y'all know that. Comments would be great. Oh and i didnt race him since my engine has been making a strange chirping noise lately and i didnt want to make it worse.

Well turns out i found out a little more about my friends 98 Trans Am. Hes got what i believe he called the "Magic stick 3" cam in it, havent heard about it but he said the size is like .603/.609 w/113 lsa. Also his heads are milled and polished from what he said. He raced a what looked like Honda hatchback last night that looked like a sh!tbox and sounded like it too. The only thing is, this car was outrunning every tuner out there. So they take off from a dig (T/A spinning pretty badly) and the honda has him by half a car. Half way down the road his LS1 performs like a jet and blows the honda's doors off. Turns out the honda was spraying a 200 shot and other mods unknown. All in all last night there was plenty of street races in my city and it was fun watching them. Just thought i'd let y'all know that. Comments would be great. Oh and i didnt race him since my engine has been making a strange chirping noise lately and i didnt want to make it worse.

All the more reason for you to race him from a dig, preferably at a track. If you can hook decent you should put enough on him to stay out front.
I think that if you go from a roll he'll eat you up. JMHO

race from a stop. That magic stick is no joke.

All the more reason for you to race him from a dig, preferably at a track. If you can hook decent you should put enough on him to stay out front.
I think that if you go from a roll he'll eat you up. JMHO


I think Al is right on this one. been thinking it since reading post #1. TONS of LS cars making 400RWHP with cam only. your car is very similar to mine. with 3:42's I went 11.69. but I got a much better 3800 stall. so you should be somewhere in the high 11's. problem is, thats where he should be too with a cam and 4:10s. IF he can launch.
make it a 20mph roll, you holding 1st gear manually. maybe try 15mph. trust me thats enough preload that neither of you should hurt any parts. atleast not that wouldnt also be hurt from launch at 30mph.

you guys should also try best 2 out of 3.

ok thanks for the advice. I'm pretty sure if i have it in 1st at 15-20 mph, i will spin my street tires like crazy though. I think since learning from what he's done to his car, he could be north of 400 to the wheels. we might just end up going to the local dragstrip instead of the street but who knows. Everyone's advice is very helpful.

make this race happen. Lets go, we want results.

yes i want to race him but i only see him like once a week and last week he didnt show up. But im gonna run him soon :burnout:

oh yeah, wasnt thinking. your right though, I always drove around with my 15" et streets, no burnout problems there. but I did play around a few times with my 17" drag radials and yeah, all kinds of sideways doin that.

ok thanks for the advice. I'm pretty sure if i have it in 1st at 15-20 mph, i will spin my street tires like crazy though. I think since learning from what he's done to his car, he could be north of 400 to the wheels. we might just end up going to the local dragstrip instead of the street but who knows. Everyone's advice is very helpful.

yeah those cam only ls1s can be nasty but you shouldnt have a problem with him. ive ran a 98 ta with a ms3 cam in it that made around 430 rwhp. ran him 4 times and we were tied twice an the other 2 times i beat him by like a car. its all mainly on the driver, an who can get the better hit. at 30mph you should be able to stay in first, just try to keep your rpms around 3500 to 4000 cause thats probably where you make peak torque at. you will spin but not as bad as him with those 4.10s plus he'll have to shift at like 40 or so an u still be in forth. another thing is depending on how tall his tires are he'll have to go to 5th gear at around 115 and your 3rd (which is way stronger than his 5th) will run out till like 135 or so. in the end i think you will have him the whole way.

oh an my car is a 97 lt1 formula 6 speed with stock short block and full bolt on with the le2 package. car made 415 and 385 at the time with the 10 bolt an 3.42 gears an all 4 races were from 60 and 45 i think an we went to around 135 to 140. i was also shifting at like 6500

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8Fk_HykWcs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8Fk_HykWcs

Missmatched rims on the street! Stylin!!

I actually think it doesnt look too bad.:shrug: am I the only one thinks that?

Missmatched rims on the street! Stylin!!

Yeah, most people just do that back and forth to the track but I guess if you don't have a dedicated set of drag wheels and want extra traction on the street...;)


As for the 10 and 11 second cam only LS1 cars, I'm a looser converter away from the 11's and I'm full weight with a smaller cam. My 2,800 Vig isn't quite enough. I'm sure with some weight loss and a killer DA, I'd get there but you better believe that bird with traction is already there.;)

Good Luck!!!

Here's my buddies TA runnin against a turboed ricer. TA spins off the line.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp7J-RTwCXM

Just race the guy already

every time i get close to racing him (which could only happen on Saturday's) something gets f-ed up on my car. This weekend it was rough idle, dumping fuel, and loss of power. So now i gotta go pull the plugs and check em. When we run i'll post up the vid or let you all know.