I have a problem I can't figure out

First this is all new set-up. new engine etc.

It turns the rpm....goes through the top end 7400 but will only run 112 or so mph. I though it was the trans first, replced that, then thought iwas a converter so I got a ATI 8" 5500. Still does the exact same thing....

It turns the rpm but is slow as crap.......a dead duck. nothing

It a 14:1 LT1, ported heads, ported/matched single plane intake. Accel DFI, the air fuel is good all the way through. Plugs look good. th350 trans, ATI converter, 9" rear with 4.56 and 28" tire ET drag

I really feel its not a trans issuie anymore...the fluid is like new, no smell or anything. Could possibly the cam be wrong or off? Its 27x/28x @ .050 640/640 on a 106. The cam was used before in another car with the exact motor (just beeter parts, I have some eagle stuff) and went 135 mph. I said this thing should go at least 125 on a bad day....but it wont even get close.

I also used a converter that was known to be good......we pulled it directly out of a car that went 140 mph and tried it...same thing.

Dead out of the hole, dead everywhere. Maybe I have shifted it too low I thought? I shifted at 6500....but on the top end its still slow on mph. So if the cam was not in correctly would it make it that slow but still turn alot of RPM?

I am lost at this point and thousands of dollars later I'm also broke.....:cry:

Roll it across the dyno so that you can post a graph - that will greatly help.

Some common things could be plugged exhaust, bad ring seal, low pressure valve springs, ignition issues(very common)...

Roll it across the dyno so that you can post a graph - that will greatly help.

Some common things could be plugged exhaust, bad ring seal, low pressure valve springs, ignition issues(very common)...

I leaked the motor when I got home...its all good.

Springs are all still 200#+ on the seat.....my checker wont do higher but they are 260# when we did them

Ignition could be.....would I lose 10mph though? exaust is just headers and 3" pipes with bullets

I leaked the motor when I got home...its all good.

Springs are all still 200#+ on the seat.....my checker wont do higher but they are 260# when we did them

Ignition could be.....would I lose 10mph though? exaust is just headers and 3" pipes with bullets

It seems like a lot of cam to me. Who did it for you? 27x/28x @ .050, wasn't it?

LT1 guys I know usually don't run that much cam. Maybe the cam isn't a good match for the heads and the rest of the combination.


Joe Urban

It seems like a lot of cam to me. Who did it for you? 27x/28x @ .050, wasn't it?

LT1 guys I know usually don't run that much cam. Maybe the cam isn't a good match for the heads and the rest of the combination.


Joe Urban

we have used it before and been 135 mph in a very similar car.

I think its kind of small myself.....LTx or not its a race engine.

we have used it before and been 135 mph in a very similar car.

I think its kind of small myself.....LTx or not its a race engine.

Is this the 7400 rpm engine that broke the ARP rocker arm stud?

Obviously it's your engine and your choice. I see 130 mph full weight LT cars with single planes and lots less cam. I was just curious as to who designed the cam and valvetrain. I'm always trying to learn.

No offense if you don't want to reveal the cam designer. I understand that.



Joe Urban

Is this the 7400 rpm engine that broke the ARP rocker arm stud?

Obviously it's your engine and your choice. I see 130 mph full weight LT cars with single planes and lots less cam. I was just curious as to who designed the cam and valvetrain. I'm always trying to learn.

No offense if you don't want to reveal the cam designer. I understand that.



Joe Urban

came from someone who has been doing them for 40+ years. sent everything to cam techniques and had it ground.....The rocker stud didn't break at 7400...it broke idling when I put fluid in the trans......I think it must have gotten loose or was a cheap ass stud, but I got a new set of arp pro ones now.
I have seen plenty of full weight cars run faster too...**** this car ran 119 with stocks heads and bottom end 7 years ago :lol: I want to know why this one isn't running like it should. Its not the cam design Joe. as I said...this cam has been used before and done the job.

Whats I don't understand is if its turning the rpm......not matter if it is making power or not it should still have some mph correct? Which would lead me back to thinking trans or converter again.....

Whats I don't understand is if its turning the rpm......not matter if it is making power or not it should still have some mph correct? Which would lead me back to thinking trans or converter again.....

Punch your #'s in HERE (http://www.wallaceracing.com/converter-slip.php) once to see if convertor is to blame.

Give us a rundown on one of the passes. May give a clue to where your problems are.

How does the car feel down the track I know you said dead everywhere. But can you give us a little more info on how it feels, is any one part of the run crappier than the other? Does it launch half ok and fall on its face, or does it run hard then lay down on the big end?

Depending on how its doing down the track. It could be a whole laundry list of things. I'll say more when I see a complete timeslip rundown.

If everything is the same in the motor with proper assembly, then I suspect an ignition breakdown problem. You need to put an ignition scope on the car and watch it under load, we always run this testing while on the dyno and it can easily cost you 40+HP, with the car feeling like its running fine.

Edit: Are you saying that at the end of the track you are getting up to the same rpm that you were before?

If so, then it sounds like slippage, huh?

Punch your #'s in HERE (http://www.wallaceracing.com/converter-slip.php) once to see if convertor is to blame.

When I use this it shows 17% slippage

The car pulls all the way through but is really lacking power bad. It has power but it just does not feel right, its too slow and it is turning up good.

I will try and get it on a dyno this week and get a graph. Its possible it could be in the tune also or be too rich. Possibly too much gear? but it should still run better in the 1/8

I'm going to get a few slips together and get an averag of the passes.
Most are like this
12.0-12.1 @ 112.4

1/8 it has been all over but runs about a 7.40 t 90mph.....way off.

60' have been anywhere from high 1.6's to 1.52....

Put a carb on that beast and let it eat!!

Put a carb on that beast and let it eat!!

wouldn't be the first time I thought about throwing all this efi **** in the woods

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiQVZbZ2eZc
Here is a vid. so you can see what it is doing. It is not moving at the big end. I think we have found the problem but you can take a look and see. We were having problems with the trans pushing oil and you will hear them say something about it but that is fixed and still running the same times...
Buck

video makes me want to throw up :lol:

:cry:

The cam was on a 106 icl. I do not have the card but I think it was supposed to be on a 103.

I will check tommorow and I tore the engine down(for no reason, everything look o.k.) I want to see if this cam could be an issue, If I need to I will get another one this week. If that won't fix it I sell the whole damn thing and get something else :cry:

17% is beyond excessive slippage, you should be seeing 6-8%, 10% at worst.

That could be caused by combination problem too. I went from running mid 10's with my smaller Bullet Racing cam to 10.80's with this POS comp cam junk i vowed i'd never install in a motor...and this cam is bigger, and engine dyno dyck somehow had it making 636hp/600tq as opposed to old motor making 600hp/570tq to which given weight of my car was right.

I would give serious look at timing first and foremost since it's easiest to look at. I had a dizzy go bad with my first 388cid, off the trialer it was running 12.00 like a zerox machine, but slower than i had ever expected. Stabbed a brand new dizzy in after finding alot wrong with what i had, 11.20's off the trailer with no other change...timing is THAT dramatic. I had an issue this year again and i lost .4, found what it was and got right back to 10.80's that next pass and same mph. So what i'm saying, timing issues cause huuuge problems and can also mask itself as many other problems.

Another issue, is combination, maybe that cam spec is not right for application? maybe it should be ground on a 108-110LSA instead of the 106. This is what alot of guys are telling me with mine and why mines so focking slow too compared to where it used to be. First Bullet Cam Bullet speced for me was on a 108*LSA, this Comp pos is on a 106, so right now heads want to flow up here in the rpm band, cam wants to flow down low in the rpm band, gears what to keep eveythign in the middle. I keep saying i am going to buy another cam from Bullet and get this Comp in the trash as fast as possible, but i'm so sick of working on it, spending money from last year i'm running dog assed slow, not fun, but i cant complain as i've picked up checks at 8 of 10 events ran this season.

I think its in the cam......

I just can't see all the converters being bad.

Is it possible if the cam timing is off it would lose a huge amount of power?

I have check the timing over and over and just don't see a problem anywhere with it....its advancing like it should and is in sync with the DFI.....no popping or anything...I just can't see it being in the timing/ignition. I feel its more in the cam timing, or the cam is too retarded, it still "cams" up to about 4500 or more before it clears out.

Its out now so I hope to find out something this week and run next week. If not I got another car to run but I want this one fixed.

Are you running an air filter on it? how are the air/fuel ratios as you go down the track, on both sides.

You could still rpm fine and just have a weak or dead cyl or poor combustion from weak spark. I dont know about camming all the way up to 4500 that sounds like something is broke to me (dead cyl).

If you have a new cam put in, have it ground on a wider lsa you have the compression for it easy.

Have you tried overfilling the trans any? Sometimes with a deep pan and the wrong filter you can have trouble also. At its most basic even an auto tranny is a clutch, without any apply pressure it cannot do its job 17% slip is pretty sad.

Are you running an air filter on it? how are the air/fuel ratios as you go down the track, on both sides.

You could still rpm fine and just have a weak or dead cyl or poor combustion from weak spark. I dont know about camming all the way up to 4500 that sounds like something is broke to me (dead cyl).

If you have a new cam put in, have it ground on a wider lsa you have the compression for it easy.

Have you tried overfilling the trans any? Sometimes with a deep pan and the wrong filter you can have trouble also. At its most basic even an auto tranny is a clutch, without any apply pressure it cannot do its job 17% slip is pretty sad.

no filter

1 dead cyl would lose that much power? cyl leakdown test is good. compresion is good. wires, coil, msd etc. is all new and seems to be in good working order as I tested it all before.

Only thing about the trans is the fluid is like new and not burnt or anything. If it was slipping then you would smell or see clutch in the fluid. I even tore down the one I thought was slipping and everything air checks good and the clutches/steels look like new. That one had all alto clutches and the one I have now is raybestos blues....I drained the fluid and it looks like it did when I put it in. Its a stock trans pan and a madman dipstick....so it reads the same as a stock one, I have measured it previously when I thought it was slipping.


My question right now is could the engine spin up that high and not make any power if the camshaft was off? My tach could be wrong too......

Well if you make 500hp one dead hole is going to cost you 63hp or so. Puts you down about 12.5% on power. Do the plugs look good when you pull them after a run? Not wet or sooty?

Is the throttle opening 100% have you checked while somebody else held it to the floor. Thats about all I can think of if everything else checks out, you just arent moving the air. Which is pretty hard for me to believe with who did the heads.

I dont think your cam will kill you on hp that much, its not too far out of line for what you have running. I have run cams as big as 288* in 383's in small tire cars but they were running about 1000rpm over what you do.

Let me ask you this when you leave the line does the tach hang around the stall speed for about a second or so before it picks up. This usually happens with higher stall cars until the car catches up with the engine speed. Might give some insight into whats up.

I still wanna see a breakdown of a run.

MD- seriously, 17% convertor slippage is waaaaay to loose/sloppey and is why your seeing such huge rpm at the stripe and such slow mph in relationship to it.

Aside from timing, induction could play into it too. My junk this season was running low 11's, not good at all. I put a new 4.56 gear in since i had 16% convertor slip and figured the taller back tire killed me. Car still running dog slow and 60'ing slower than it did at the end of last year...something was'nt adding up. Locked distributor out to eliminate timing jump from the equation, still ran like azz. Borrowed a know working carb a few months back, boom, problem solved, ET picked up huge, 60's dropped big time, mph was lacking due to steeper gearing and i was know trapping 7400...as opposed to the 6600 I'm at now with my Pro System rebuilt carb and old 4.11 gear back in it.

I would try a different cam for no more than they cost, esspecially if ya got the engine out, the specs seem off a bit to me, but i' not a cam grinder and am just basing thoughts off the guys i run with with similar combo's. But i would still give serious look into induction/timing since what your describing work hand in hand with the poor performance your having, and would cause excessie convertor slip too since it's laboring too much to get the car going.

.I still wanna see a breakdown of a run

6-14-08 9.5" converter 5500
,027 rt
1.695 60'
4.96 330
7.71 660
88.98
10.117 1000
12.158 1320
112.37

6-21-08 8" ATI 5500
.0349 rt
1.7372 60'
5.0016 330
7.73 660
90.14

I can't find the tickets from the videos, but the second pass was a 1.52 60' and I think 11.69 at 113, I can't see. The last pass was 11.89 on the brakes....

The motor is turning the rpm and the mph isn't there, so it is the converter or the trans. Which one is of course the question. It is really hard to tell. If you can get the tranny apart yourself, I'd start there. If not, they each need to go back to who put them together. They may both come back with you being told "nothing wrong" but magically they will work. go figure.

Rich

no filter

1 dead cyl would lose that much power?
If it were a dead cylinder you would just know it. Your car would sound and feel different enough for you to know it was not firing on all 8.

If it were a dead cylinder you would just know it. Your car would sound and feel different enough for you to know it was not firing on all 8.

feels like it hitting on all 8 to me. Once you wind it out its nice and smooth....just weak as ****, might as well be driving a stock one.

Last fall one trip to the track the car felt "soft", still ran 12.4 but especially the launch was just weak. Popped a header gasket that day. Well when I got home I found one header port on each side looked different numbers 2 and 7, number 7 had a white spot and cracking in the plug wire, and number 2 had this plug. http://s120.photobucket.com/albums/o165/96capriceMGR/?action=view&current=DCP_0544.jpg

Had someone else drive the car that day even, someone WAY more experianced than I, neither of us felt a miss. Felt a whole lot better after fresh plugs and one new wire though.

Point being sometimes ignition issues can be a bit less obvious than we usually find. I was floored when I found those problems, and amazed the car ran as smooth as it was.

timing
fuel
confirm those are tip top and in perfect working order since car will still run just fine, but be lacking ALOT of power like you describe
then move back into convertor, send it back in. Did you order the the convertor with the CX stator or CCX stator? hard hit or soft hit stator if you dont know which stator type? those will make a difference too in overall performance
once all those options have been looked at and confirmed tip top, then move into engine internals, but only then, otherwise you may be wasting alot of time pulling engine and breaking them down for nothing-it's that simple. all of the items i described will hide themselves and make ou look elsewhere, and yes, car will run just fine, but performance lacking like you described.

having faulty timing, or faulty induction WILL make the convertor slip more...been there done that this year...now that i have carburator right, convertor slip dropped from 16% to 10%. still not perfect, but better. fact remains i have the wrong cam for the combo and possible head issues too with the throat area.....which brings up another very important question...were these heads worked on? hogged on? it's very very possible/plausible the heads are junk now and need repaired if somebody just went in there and started chewing away at them without flowing to moitor progress.

Eric Bradby ported the heads, for what they are they flow good. He got the cam too......we just talked and he is going to go over everything tommorow and thinks we need to moves the cam.

He does alot of fast LT1 cars and stockers, and we just copied another combo when we did mine.

Eric Bradby ported the heads, for what they are they flow good. He got the cam too......we just talked and he is going to go over everything tommorow and thinks we need to moves the cam.

He does alot of fast LT1 cars and stockers, and we just copied another combo when we did mine.

Flow dont mean squat...proper air flow means everything and is one of the reasons i am having issues with my junk as well. the guy picked up 35cfm over what these 100% CNC'd heads did out of box....picked up flow at all point in the lift, but guess what, air flow is now screwed up since it's bottle necking in the throat area and causing too much turbulance and hurting it.

too many old school guys get caught up with more flow, more flow...it's not all in the flow, heads are a perfect example of less is more; more often than not, hence easily screwing up a set of heads by just grinding on them without checking certain spots across the port. The guy that voluntered to make mine right says he takes a minum of 5 readings across each port as he works, this way he can catch and fix anything that makes flow worse. not saying your guy ruined your heads, but i was'nt saying that about my guy either..and it happened...and the dude that did my engine builds alot of the outlaw super street S/C engines for that class...so i just assumed he knew his sheeot.

If it were a dead cylinder you would just know it. Your car would sound and feel different enough for you to know it was not firing on all 8.

feels like it hitting on all 8 to me. Once you wind it out its nice and smooth....just weak as ****, might as well be driving a stock one.



Point being sometimes ignition issues can be a bit less obvious than we usually find. I was floored when I found those problems, and amazed the car ran as smooth as it was.


I was at the dyno the other day watching a friends 402 LSx on the rollers. Previously, the car did 480 rwhp with an A4. He now has a T56, Dana 60 rear, and 4.10 gears versus 3.42s and was wanting to see the power difference. First pass put down 412 rwhp! :mad: Car was smooth as silk and he had been driving it for QUITE A WHILE like this and noticed no driving issues except for it being kinda "soft" down low. A bunch of tuning wasn't helping much, so they started looking for problems.

Turns out, it was an MSD coil, therefore a completely dead cylinder!:( Changed it out for a stock one and BAM... 498 rwhp! :bow:

Ended up with 501 rwhp. So it was down ~90rwhp from a dead cylinder and was running smooth as silk! :)

Not saying that is your problem, just agreeing with others saying it can sometimes be unnoticeable!

Not saying that is your problem, just agreeing with others saying it can sometimes be unnoticeable!
A dead cylinder is noticeable to those who know their own setup. As stated the engine responds, sounds and feels different. I've never owned a LSx therefore I don't know... perhaps it's more difficult to find a dead cylinder because of its firing order.. dunno...

No clue. He drove it to the Fbody Gathering in Atlanta from NC which is about 4 hours and around town all the time and never noticed.

He said he never really got on it, either, so maybe that's why he couldn't notice the huge lack of power.

well the camshaft was 100% correct. everything else in the motor is dead on. No problems found there.

Talked to people about converter, sending the second one back to get checked out.

I have allready swapped all the igniton stuff once, wires, plugs, coil, msd box etc. etc. and it didn't do anything.

What does your map show when you go through the lights?

Again what is the a/f down the track? I know you asked about widebands before in the pcm section.

What did your ve tables end up showing for the higher hp rpm areas when you got the fueling right?

What fuel are you running in it?

You have made sure you're getting wot?

How do the plugs look?

I just find it really hard to believe that you have had multiple trannies and converters as well as ignitions in this thing and it has responded to NOTHING.

What kind of line pressure are you seeing in the trans? It could be slipping but with those rpm's you'd know pretty fast when the atf turned into baby ****. I vote converter if the engine stuff checks out and the trans is in order.

What does your map show when you go through the lights?100kpa

Again what is the a/f down the track? I know you asked about widebands before in the pcm section.in high gear at WOT about 12.4

What did your ve tables end up showing for the higher hp rpm areas when you got the fueling right?uh not sure....like.882 or something with a 60# injectorWhat fuel are you running in it? sunoco 110

You have made sure you're getting wot? Yep

How do the plugs look? good, maybe a tad rich but pretty good, the timing mark goes right to the mid point of the bend

I just find it really hard to believe that you have had multiple trannies and converters as well as ignitions in this thing and it has responded to NOTHING.

What kind of line pressure are you seeing in the trans? I have no idea It could be slipping but with those rpm's you'd know pretty fast when the atf turned into baby ****. I vote converter if the engine stuff checks out and the trans is in order.

If I can get it back together and in tommorow I may try to dyno it this week, although I feel its a waste of money....and plan to run it again this weekend also. I also plan on a nice timing marker when I put it back together and locking out the DFI to 37* and seeing what it does. and I mean locking it 37 per a timing light.....

I see no problem with any of that, just wanted to make sure you werent running c16 or something.

12.4 is a little rich but at that level it is probably not hurting a thing.

Hook a hydrualic gauge up to the trans to monitor pressures, without good apply pressure a clutch will do nothing. Its just something else to verify. Should be in the 200-230psi range imo.

A dyno will not do you any good if the trans isnt putting the power down. The mph and your wideband tell you about all you need to know, your a/f is good, and the hp you're putting to the tire is not worth a diddle.

What gap are you running on the plugs? Verifying the timing with a light sounds like a good plan to me and should be worth a try. I was hoping your ve would be in a % so we could see what kind of wind you're moving at high rpm kind of a backdoor way to verify hp.

Sorry dude sounds like its probably your trans or converter as the doc said quite awhile ago.

Either that or god just hates you and reaches down special just to hold your car back :lol:.

This sounds very simliar to the problem I had with my turbo setup. Get it on the dyno and look at the datalogs closely to see if you are LOSING rpm at wot. Mine was doing that, and in the end would only drop about 50rpm(not noticable on the tach), but you could see it in the logs. My car on 8lbs should've been good for 10.80 at 128mph, but was pulling 12.0 at 110. It did make one good 1/8th mile pass when I first put it together, going 101mph in the 1/8th.

I replaced EVERYTHING ignition related, double checked the fuel side and replaced parts, swapped transmissions/converters, pcm's, tunes, everything....even went through my wiring harness WIRE BY WIRE checking it all.

Final straw was to replace the engine wiring harness completely, and I just got fed up with the car. I ended up pulling it out and sold the turbo kit, motor, etc.

I did find another thread on here where a guy had the same problem for 2 years and couldn't find it, even though he replaced everything. I wish I still had the page book marked.

the plugs are gapped at .035

I'm sending one of the converters back.

where do I hook a pressure gauge to on the trans? and where do I get one?

Did you retard the cam when you re-installed it? (second time). I'm at a loss if its not cam timing, if the FI is fine and the tranny is fine then thats the only thing that could rob that amount of power.

For bracket racing convertor slippage is a good thing for vehicle consistancy.

Sounds to me that the power is going out the exhaust. If it were the converter/trans and you were making decent power your rpms would shoot up fast and never come down at all between shifts. It would be almost like revving in neutral. Most likely you'd run out of RPM before the end of the 1/4. I say it is a pushrod/cam timing/timing/valvetrain issue. Ensure the installed height is correct on the springs and that the geometry is correct.

I am also wondering where you have the MAP located as a false reading from the MAP sensor could cause major tuning issues.

Good Luck,

where do I hook a pressure gauge to on the trans? and where do I get one?

There is a port down on the pass side toward the rear to check line pressure. It would be just a couple inches from the rear corner of the pan. Just any hydraulic gauge would work, ask around the track or go to a tranny shop see if you can borrow one.

There is a port down on the pass side toward the rear to check line pressure. It would be just a couple inches from the rear corner of the pan. Just any hydraulic gauge would work, ask around the track or go to a tranny shop see if you can borrow one.

I have one, ATI said to look for 165-170 psi.




The map is located in an intake port in the plenum under the TB.






I put the cam back in exactly like it was. ATI said this 8" is a real tight converter and if my timing was off I could turn rmp all day long and not go anywhere b/c no power but there is stil too much rpm so 1 check the line pressure and 2 check the ignition timing, if it was fuel it would be very obvious

Woops, guess I was having a brain fart on the line pressure. Too much time in 4l60e's lately. Look for 175 or so as a max in D, 230-270 in reverse as a max and 170-200 in park. I dont usually check reverse because I dont care about it

Minimums should be 70-90 or so in drive, little higher for manual first.

If you have a full manual revers or forward pattern or a trans brake pattern just look for 150-170 max.

Woops, guess I was having a brain fart on the line pressure. Too much time in 4l60e's lately. Look for 175 or so as a max in D, 230-270 in reverse as a max and 170-200 in park. I dont usually check reverse because I dont care about it

Minimums should be 70-90 or so in drive, little higher for manual first.

If you have a full manual revers or forward pattern or a trans brake pattern just look for 150-170 max.

I can use a regular oil pressure checker right?

I have a snap-on set 0-300....

get it all back together, prime it, try to fire it up NO FIRE

check coil etc. and swapped b/c its easy to swap and I keep a spare module/coil/mount in the trailer. So after that it looks like the distributor is not good.

So how about just going to this if it is bad?

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=ACC%2D77100&N=700+307985+115&autoview=sku

just eliminate the factory one. Its a pita anyway....

I dont know enough about the dfi to give you a suggestion on what to do with the dist. May not be a bad idea to give accel a call about that? Let us know what you find out when you get it running again.

Bad news is its going to cost you money. Good news is, whatever was holding you back has finally just completely died.

Well I have swapped in a dual sync distributor. huge PITA.

an opti block-off

made the wires soldered everything etc.

I have plenty of fire...but not starting. I'm fed up with it, If I don't figure it out friday or sat. all of it is coming off. I will put a carb on it and run it until I finish something else.

I don't even want the car anymore.....wish I had kept my ezstreet 3rd gen

Ah come on thats girly talk, don't quit on it.

You verified spark.. how about fuel now. Since you havent got it to fire have you tried advancing and retarding the distributor while somebody cranks it. All the fire in the world is no good if its at the wrong time or retarded a bit too far.

Does it do anything at all besides crank over? sputter? anything? I'm sure its not your first day but you're positive you have it installed with #1 at tdc on the compression stroke?

If you're sure of all that a easy test for fuel is to shoot some carb cleaner etc into the tb and then try to fire it.

Ah come on thats girly talk, don't quit on it.

You verified spark.. how about fuel now. Since you havent got it to fire have you tried advancing and retarding the distributor while somebody cranks it. All the fire in the world is no good if its at the wrong time or retarded a bit too far.

Does it do anything at all besides crank over? sputter? anything? I'm sure its not your first day but you're positive you have it installed with #1 at tdc on the compression stroke?

If you're sure of all that a easy test for fuel is to shoot some carb cleaner etc into the tb and then try to fire it.

It fires, thought it was going to start but wont.

Something in the distributor.....it has 2 LED inside it. you put it on #1 tdc then turn it til the LED's go off.....then the rotor will move so you can get it to tdc. Its a huge pita to get to it.

Well I have swapped in a dual sync distributor. huge PITA.

an opti block-off

made the wires soldered everything etc.

I have plenty of fire...but not starting. I'm fed up with it, If I don't figure it out friday or sat. all of it is coming off. I will put a carb on it and run it until I finish something else.

I don't even want the car anymore.....wish I had kept my ezstreet 3rd gen


Smaartest thing you've said thus far:p I have too many gadget geek freinds with all this FI bullsheeot and i've never seen them make too many passes back to back where they run good, they're always fighting this or that, taking them to shops for dyno tuning, then if the sun does'nt shine the next day, the car runs like crap and away they go again LOL!! Oh well, fun for me to give them ****. Good concept, lottsa possiblities with a properly tuned system, only problem is nobody within miles of here does that kind of thing so only the guys that can trave out of state and have the time to constantly fight it do it, the rest of us just go.:cool:

Smaartest thing you've said thus far:p I have too many gadget geek freinds with all this FI bullsheeot and i've never seen them make too many passes back to back where they run good, they're always fighting this or that, taking them to shops for dyno tuning, then if the sun does'nt shine the next day, the car runs like crap and away they go again LOL!! Oh well, fun for me to give them ****. Good concept, lottsa possiblities with a properly tuned system, only problem is nobody within miles of here does that kind of thing so only the guys that can trave out of state and have the time to constantly fight it do it, the rest of us just go.:cool:

I have a big ass pile of wires and i juyst am not happy with the whole system at all. So here I am about 5 grand later after messing with all this....... POS

I don't give a damn if it runs good or not, I'm a bracket racer without a running car of my own..........I'm going to get a carb. The only reason I haven't is b/c I have so much money in the dfi **** allready......I'm tired of having to mess with it. And the car is weak anyway. I want a big motor

If you're not good with efi i'm not sure why you would have even considered it anyway. It has a very steep learning curve and is not at all forgiving. What I would do is walk away from the whole works for a day or two. Make a list of things you took off or adjusted, go over all the sensors and wiring harness. Something changed when you tore it down. Look at the data your efi is giving you, and give the readings from the sensors a sanity check.

If you still cant get it after that, then maybe it is time to either have another set of eyes check it out, and as a last resort go to a carb. Just go over everything with a fine tooth comb.

If you're not good with efi i'm not sure why you would have even considered it anyway. It has a very steep learning curve and is not at all forgiving. What I would do is walk away from the whole works for a day or two. Make a list of things you took off or adjusted, go over all the sensors and wiring harness. Something changed when you tore it down. Look at the data your efi is giving you, and give the readings from the sensors a sanity check.

If you still cant get it after that, then maybe it is time to either have another set of eyes check it out, and as a last resort go to a carb. Just go over everything with a fine tooth comb.

I have had a few people look at it, I'm not so sure its not a bad PCM or something. The opti deffinatly dies. I checked it several times and never got it to work again. I'm getting fire now and I locked it out at 20*.....its good with a timing light dead on. Look at it again later. I'm not happy at all right now......after I overnighted all this stuff and dropped enough money to buy some serious parts I know I could have made work. I feel like a huge dumbass now..... time to fold em :lol:

Shoot some carb cleaner down the tb or pour a little gas in it. If it fires you know where to look! Check your fuses and the idle air temp sensor out and engine coolant temp and make sure they're sane. Make sure your fuel pump is coming on and you have good pressure. Might even try varying the throttle while cranking to see if you can get it to catch. Check your plugs too and make sure you're actually getting some fuel, could also be that its flooded. May also be that it just needs a little more enrichment and air to start now.

I know how you feel, I battled an edelbrock efi that had a bad dist problem and the ecu itself had trouble overheating as well ran like a total dog after it got hot. They looked it over on thier test rig but not a live engine and found nothing. Got tired of messin with it they took it back, car has a 6 pack and msd ignition on it now and runs like a champ. So I have been where you are before, but it wasnt my car I was just doing the work on it.

So I only get spark for the first second or so then it throws a code and cuts ignition. says the trigger wire going to the MSD box is over .25 amps. so it shuts off ignition.....

Call MSD they say its not in the box but the wire has no shorts or anything, I checked it all the way to where it goes in the box and its all good. Possibly a bad box? Everything is hooked up like it should be and I have checked the sync of the rotor several times...its all good.

Only thing I can thing of is the box is bad.....could have been the issue all along? But I was not getting any signal out of the opti before.....so maybe a bad box burned up the opti drawing too many amps?

Any thoughts.....I'm ****ing clueless, If I had just a little more cash I would drop a 540 in it ready to go, just need headers. But I spoent all my money on this POS :(

Bypass the junk msd box and run it? Have you run an ammeter on the line that the msd box says is bad and verified that its getting too much current?

Any thoughts.....
Any possible way to bypass the box?

Insure it for a large amount and it "may" catch on fire...

Carb time, your s burnt out on the EFI stuff you'll never like it.

Carb time, your s burnt out on the EFI stuff you'll never like it.

YEP

I'm not even bothering with it anymore. I need a cell and a pump....someone is building me a carb now and I have a super vic with a vortec patern. Hopefully summit will let me trade this distributor for a crab cap...If not I will jusy order one. My EFI drag racing days are over. I'm not out to prove anything, don't know what the hell I'm doing...so I need something I can work with.

If you want to buy any of this junk let me know...:lol:

I wish I would've been able to just ditch everything and go carb on my setup, but turbo plus carb isn't real easy to get tuned in for a daily driver, lol.

don't know what the hell I'm doing...so I need something I can work with.

I would have just bypassed the msd box and fired it up if it were me before I took it apart or spent another dime. Seems mostly you just have a bad taste in your mouth about the efi.

BTW your msd box will still be screwed up with a carb fueling it too.

Seems like you've made up your mind though sorry it didnt work out for you.

Shoot me a price on this stuff, we run a comp eliminator car and are new combination might be DFI.

Shoot me a price on this stuff, we run a comp eliminator car and are new combination might be DFI.

tom it all listed in the for sale section, if you still got my number give me a call we can work something out

I can't add any technical knowledge to this thread (since you guys know about 10,000x what I do), but I can say this: Don't underestimate the power of walking away from this for a few days. I make my worst decisions and do my poorest thinking when I'm pissed off & burned out over something like this.

carb is on, I put it on the intake I had already and blocked off the injector holes :lol:

need to run the main line and go get a cell and distributor in the morning.....

I would like to say this....I feel so relieved at this point without having 1,000 wires and harnesses etc. all over the engine. I feel so good right now...don't care if its slow or not. The only carb I could get on short notice was a 4777 650 dp. At least I know now how to make it run :D

Well she is right on time now.....

Eric Bradby did a carb for me, its a 750hp he said it will burn cleaner than a bigger one....( whatever that means)

But he tuned it drove it etc. and it sruns good now for sure. Going to run it next weekend. I have a few small things to finish. But I'm happy now.......starts up soon as you hit the button too. Nice and simple. My fuel injection days are long gone.

Well she is right on time now.....

Eric Bradby did a carb for me, its a 750hp he said it will burn cleaner than a bigger one....( whatever that means)

But he tuned it drove it etc. and it sruns good now for sure. Going to run it next weekend. I have a few small things to finish. But I'm happy now.......starts up soon as you hit the button too. Nice and simple. My fuel injection days are long gone.

As is your need for a technical degree and non stop computer programming trying to get it to run right...smart move. KISS method in full swing at the mdacton camp:cool:

As is your need for a technical degree and non stop computer programming trying to get it to run right...smart move. KISS method in full swing at the mdacton camp:cool:

I'm really pissed I didn't listen to begin with.......I just wasted 6 months and about 5 grand. Oh well.....kiiss method from here on out.

Your next step will be getting away from the LT1 stuff (and the small bore stuff).

Congrats on getting with the program finally, now go out and win back some of that money!!

Put your vacuum gauge on it, I still think with the 750hp you're going to pull way too much vacuum in the upper rpm with the power you're going to be making. Power starts dropping like a rock with anything over 1.5" hg.

Your next step will be getting away from the LT1 stuff (and the small bore stuff).

Congrats on getting with the program finally, now go out and win back some of that money!!

yep, screw the small blocks, I'm building a dart block 540 with pro 1's.might take some time but thats next.

She was pulling the tires today on the street, we added some CV spacer and it really did help a ton, took a stumble out. and changed a squirter in the rear.....she is ready to get busy now.....

Oh and he burned about 8 gallons of fuel and burned my damn tires up too...:lol: But we know damn well it will do it now........If I see a 10.80 I say screw it leave it at that.

Was the spacer one of those 4 hole tapered kind (like an HVH super sucker)? That what I used and it took my slight stumble away versus the open spacer and 4 hole spacers I've tried.

Good deal

Was the spacer one of those 4 hole tapered kind (like an HVH super sucker)? That what I used and it took my slight stumble away versus the open spacer and 4 hole spacers I've tried.

Good deal

yes, I'm not sure if it was tapered. don't think so but its about an inch and a half and is CV products. I was really suprised it worked.....but it did.

Coool! Waiting or results!:)

My High tech= Carb and LM-1...haha:D

ran it today, it was hot and humid as hell....

converter is way too tight, can't get over 2k with it....( came out of an 8 sec car so....:lol:)

o.k. so it pulls the wheels then spins when the touch the ground..... cutting 1.6's

ran 125 in the heat so.....with some work we can get the car to run now.....It has alot in it. and too much gear, lots of small stuff.

I pulled it out the trailer and never took the hood off all day :lol:

ran it today, it was hot and humid as hell....

converter is way too tight, can't get over 2k with it....( came out of an 8 sec car so....:lol:)

o.k. so it pulls the wheels then spins when the touch the ground..... cutting 1.6's

ran 125 in the heat so.....with some work we can get the car to run now.....It has alot in it. and too much gear, lots of small stuff.

I pulled it out the trailer and never took the hood off all day :lol:
What gear ratio are you running?

What gear ratio are you running?

4.56 28" ET drag

you need to update your sig now to reflect the dfi delete.
glad to here your back in business at the track!

4.56 28" ET drag

oh good lord man, that is some serious gear reduction...would it be easier/cheaper to just upgrade to a 29" tall tire to bring finish line rpm down? I ran my 28" for years and finally made the switch to 29x9 and love it, but i use mine with a 4.11 gear and still trap 6600 on a decent air day. but i dont know how much room you have to work with back there? maybe some inner wheel well mods...ie hammer:cool:

4.56 28" ET drag
Hey lookie! It's in your sig too! I'm such a dufus...
4.88's son!