Rumormill: GMC brand getting the axe?

This has been a big year for GM's organization alignment, with President Fritz Henderson opening up about the brand issue snafu and the appointment of four brand czars. HUMMER was meant to join forces with Cadillac and Saab in a premium channel, but while HUMMER is still in the family, it's apparently been put out on the lawn. GM Inside News (GMI) reports that GM is treating HUMMER as a goner, saying that the H4 program is on life support for handover to the next buyer, and the H3 GMT-700 program is kaput.

The bigger hearsay is that GM's board is considering euthanizing GMC or Pontiac. Those two brands were to be aligned in a brand channel with Buick (PBG). Getting rid of GMC could make some kind of sense, since it's entirely brand-engineered vehicles with some of the worst mileage numbers in the fleet. Shunning Pontiac would be a surprise to us since the Solstice and G8 have given it a nice brand awareness boost and it's got some products in the pipeline. If GMC or Pontiac did go, the GM board would consider folding Saturn into the PBG channel to maintain sales volume. In corporate-speak, we believe this is called GM's "gloves off" phase. Thanks for the tip, Dan!

GMC is a useless brand, it should go.

I guess there's the school of thought that says give Chevy trucks the Denali treatment on the high end and kill GMC. The big reason why GMC made sense was that trucks were extremely profitable, especially in the ridiculous volume they were moving. Now -- not so much. Trucks may be free-falling into a liability now, something no one could imagine just a few years ago.

However, there are still a lot of guys who will not buy a Chevy truck, for them it's GMC or nothing. I'd hate to see such knee-jerk reactions to gas prices and CAFE on this magnitude (killing a long standing traditional brand).

I honestly wouldn't care.

The economy isnt lucrative enough to support the old stupid ideas like GMC...

GMC has been around like 90 years or something... we have high gas prices for a year or so, and people think it's time to just kill it.

It made it through the gas crunch of the 70's OK.

It puts trucks and SUV's in showrooms that otherwise wouldn't have them. If Buick/Pontiac/GMC is truely treated as a GROUP, I see no problem with GMC.

Remember, Olds is gone, and GM NEVER got that volume back. The same woudl happen with GMC leaving, IMO.

I always thought that GMCs were just cheaper versions of Chevrolets. Kind of like the "equate" brand at Wal-Mart. Its essentially the same thing with different packaging. I could be wrong though, thats just how I always viewed them.

Actually its been a premium version. Chevy is the Sams Choice of everything GM.

If GMC goes away, the Buick/Pontiac dealership network goes with it. They will probably consolidate everything under the roof of your friendly neighborhood Chevy dealer.

This might be the first step towards GM actually rationalizing it's brand structure, which would be a good thing.

Remember, Olds is gone, and GM NEVER got that volume back. The same woudl happen with GMC leaving, IMO.

Yup, GMC is GM's second bets selling division. Why would anyone want to throw all those sales away?

GMC out sold Saturn and Buick combined and at a higher price per unit. GM probably spends as much money on Saab and they don't even get 1/10th the sales. Sierra is still selling over 13,000 units a month and they will sell over 150,000 of them this year.

Saab and Hummer should go before anything else.

It made it through the gas crunch of the 70's OK.


Yeah, but GMC made something more than Yukon Denalis and Acadias back during the 70s:

http://www.hankstruckpictures.com/pix/trucks/wes_bergman/album/album3/gmc_dump.jpg

http://www.hankstruckpictures.com/pix/trucks/mark_wayman/2004/oct21/bragg/file0030.jpg

I love GMC like no other brand (I basically grew up at the GMC dealership where my dad was service manager), but I'd rather be left with a bunch of fond memories than to see the brand reduced to selling rebadged crossovers and a bunch of useless luxury SUVs. It was bad enough that GMC's Class 8 business got spun off to White and then gobbled up by Volvo, and seeing a bunch of rebadged Isuzus on GMC lots wasn't fun, but the last straw was the sale of GM's medium-duty business to Navistar. GMC trucks used to be bought by the guys who drove a General or Top Kick during the day; now they're purchased by soccer moms who are probably pissed that their husbands couldn't afford a Escalade after the mortgage industry went underwater :mad:

Hopefully, someone at GM realizes that the GMC GMT900s are way better looking than their Chevy counterparts before the plug is pulled.

Yeah, but GMC made something more than Yukon Denalis and Acadias back during the 70s:



I love GMC like no other brand (I basically grew up at the GMC dealership where my dad was service manager), but I'd rather be left with a bunch of fond memories than to see the brand reduced to selling rebadged crossovers and a bunch of useless luxury SUVs. It was bad enough that GMC's Class 8 business got spun off to White and then gobbled up by Volvo, and seeing a bunch of rebadged Isuzus on GMC lots wasn't fun, but the last straw was the sale of GM's medium-duty business to Navistar. GMC trucks used to be bought by the guys who drove a General or Top Kick during the day; now they're purchased by soccer moms who are probably pissed that their husbands couldn't afford a Escalade after the mortgage industry went underwater :mad:

Hopefully, someone at GM realizes that the GMC GMT900s are way better looking than their Chevy counterparts before the plug is pulled.Once again I find myself quoting Mr. Bryant.

Quoted for truth.

(Which is not to say I'd like to see GMC canceled, as I fear much of that volume will be lost, as happened with Olds. But PLEASE make all the trucks look like Sierras instead of Silverados if they do pull the plug...)

With rising fuel prices it really should. It offers basically rebadges of almost all Chevy trucks and SUVs... there's very little value in doing that in this day and age unless you're going to differentiate the brand somehow. They always marketed themselves as 'pro grade' but in reality they were built identically to the Chevy products in terms of almost everything including their 'grade' of assembly and materials.

I always thought that GMCs were just cheaper versions of Chevrolets. :rolleyes:

Completely bassakwards. GMC has always been a step above Chevrolet. (In luxury, power, options, price etc.)

The "GMC Truck" brand has a 100 year anniversary coming up in 4 years. I'd be shocked if they killed it now.

kill it...

Those two brands were to be aligned in a brand channel with Buick (PBG).

How many years have they been talking about this? I'm sure there is a lot of unseen work involved with the dealers but some have already consolidated. What's the problem?

hummer should be killed before gmc. hummer lost their 4x4 image but gmc still has the truck image. people love gmc's and hate chevys.

gmc's denali concept is amazing. e85, two mode, and a 4.9 v8. that looks like a successful truck in the future if it get 30+ mpg. that could be the future for gmc.

Also kill off saab. saab has some awesome technology like their turbos and especially xwd. those technologies would be very well suited for cadillac. cadillac has some great looking vehicles but, their power and drivetrain are a huge yawn. besides the di3.6, a6's,and lsx motors.

Also kill off saab. saab has some awesome technology like their turbos and especially xwd. those technologies would be very well suited for cadillac. cadillac has some great looking vehicles but, their power and drivetrain are a huge yawn. besides the di3.6, a6's,and lsx motors.

I see no reason to kill SAAB in Europe. In the US sure but not in the EU.

Hell for the US re badge them as the compact Buicks and be done.

Hummer and Saab should be sold.

Doubt Saab will ever be sold unless Opel goes with it..

GM Europe is the crown jewel of the operation, while GM North America is the boat anchor. If they really need cash bad, they will have no choice but to sell off the profitable operations like Europe or Korea to investors, but that would be the last ditch attempt.

If they really need cash bad, they will have no choice but to sell off the profitable operations like Europe or Korea to investors, but that would be the last ditch attempt.

That will never happen. GM will just shut down more U.S. production and use production from Korea and Mexico to fill in the gap. Especially if this scenario happens - http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/general-motors-death-watch-181-bankruptcy/

Dead against killing GMC.

1. Even with truck sales down, it's still a strong selling brand.
2. Strong selling brand means profits.
3. Got alot of history with it. 90+ years.
4. Has strong brand loyalty, even though it's basically a rebadged Chevy.
5. There's still a huge amount of things you can do with the brand that doesn't involve killing it.

I think the Arcadia is a good direction for GMC. Why they gave the same thing to Saturn is beyond me. I don't even favor Chevrolet getting a version.

Upcoming Hummer-type of vehicles can easily be adsorbed into GMC and do very well. An H4 would be perfect under the GMC badge, as would the H3. GMC used to make conventional heavy hauling trucks. Hummers, tie in with that as well as GMC's high roller image it's developed.

GMC can get out of the low end, workday, pickup truck business and leave it to Chevrolet.

I see more logic in GM shutting down Buick and combining Pontiac and Saturn which IMO makes far more sense than joining the luxury Buick division with a performance Pontiac division (Pontiac and Saturn both have ties to GM's overseas divisions). But shutting down GMC, though logical in that most all it's vehicles can be bought over at your local Chevrolet dealer anyway, is still an important and high volume brand.

It's still a strong division.

I would not kill it..

My father in law for instance bought a GMC Truck because he thought it was a little nicer (even though they are basically the same truck). I am guessing there are plenty of people out there like this who do not know better. Also with the latest round of pickups, the Sierra is actually better looking IMO.

I would kill Buick in the US and make it an international only brand...and then move Saturn as the mid lux offering.

Someone posted on another board that GM should consolidate to the following brands, and it makes sense to me:

Chevrolet
Saturn/Saab (import)
Cadillac/Buick (luxury)

Eliminate GMC and Pontiac.

Someone posted on another board that GM should consolidate to the following brands, and it makes sense to me:

Chevrolet
Saturn/Saab (import)
Cadillac/Buick (luxury)

Eliminate GMC and Pontiac.

Never though about combining Buick and Cadillac, but it does make plenty of sense. As Cadillac is moving up to become a global luxury brand, Buick would natrrally be the place to go for buyers who prefered the "old" Cadillac. Putting both in the same showroom would make far and away better sense combining Pontiac and Buick.

As far as Saturn & Saab combining, I disagree. I think Pontiac and Saturn would make a better combination, and here's why. First, both have links to GM's divisions overseas. The G8 is a Holden Commodore, The Solstice and Sky are shared with the Opel and Vauxhall GTs. Astra is shared with Vauxhall, Opel, and Saturn as well as Holden. Vue is also shared with GM of Europe. The next G6 is still likely to be a version of the small RWD architecture Holden is putting together. combined with the FWD Aura replacement a Solstice coupe and a Sky convertible would create a pretty impressive lineup.

If anything, Saab should combine with Opel, and we'd have cars here filtered through them.

GMC's are only sold in the U.S, Canada and Mexico correct?

Once again I find myself quoting Mr. Bryant.

Quoted for truth.

(Which is not to say I'd like to see GMC canceled, as I fear much of that volume will be lost, as happened with Olds. But PLEASE make all the trucks look like Sierras instead of Silverados if they do pull the plug...)

Lets also not forget that Pontiac dealerships need GMC so that they can have trucks and SUVs on the lot.

Lets also not forget that Pontiac dealerships need GMC so that they can have trucks and SUVs on the lot.

I suspect that having trucks and SUVs on the lot will not be quite the asset in the future as it was in the immediate past.

Why are they holding onto Buick so much? They only offer 3 models right now!:eek:

I have to say, If given the choice I would choose a Sierra over a Silverado on looks alone.

Never though about combining Buick and Cadillac, but it does make plenty of sense. As Cadillac is moving up to become a global luxury brand, Buick would natrrally be the place to go for buyers who prefered the "old" Cadillac. Putting both in the same showroom would make far and away better sense combining Pontiac and Buick.

As far as Saturn & Saab combining, I disagree. I think Pontiac and Saturn would make a better combination, and here's why. First, both have links to GM's divisions overseas. The G8 is a Holden Commodore, The Solstice and Sky are shared with the Opel and Vauxhall GTs. Astra is shared with Vauxhall, Opel, and Saturn as well as Holden. Vue is also shared with GM of Europe. The next G6 is still likely to be a version of the small RWD architecture Holden is putting together. combined with the FWD Aura replacement a Solstice coupe and a Sky convertible would create a pretty impressive lineup.

If anything, Saab should combine with Opel, and we'd have cars here filtered through them.

While we're at it, why not drop the Cadillac SUVs and use GMC for the "luxury" truck brand that's a slice above Chevy?

Why are they holding onto Buick so much? They only offer 3 models right now!:eek:

One is a nicer Impala, one is a not as nice DTS and the other is a nicer Acadia.

Why are they holding onto Buick so much? They only offer 3 models right now!:eek:

That's already more than they can manage without a ridiculous amount of overlap

If you ask me, a ~3 product lineup would be make sense for Pontiac if you could get hatchback/convertible/performance versions of each of them.

But then you've still got four car brands with a few products each. EDIT: Unless they're not going to give Chevy a version of everything, which they seem to be completely unwilling to do.

how much does it cost to have GMC or Buick as brand names? How much would it cost to hit the delete key on them? GMC and Buick are for the most part, lower volume, but higher profit versions of Chevrolet vehicles. When you put them on the same lot as as "exciting" cars then they should cover a very large audience!

how much does it cost to have GMC or Buick as brand names? How much would it cost to hit the delete key on them? GMC and Buick are for the most part, lower volume, but higher profit versions of Chevrolet vehicles. When you put them on the same lot as as "exciting" cars then they should cover a very large audience!

It cost GM over $2 Billion (about 1/4 of what GM is currently worth) to shut down the Oldsmobile dealer network. I'm not sure if they're anxious to do that again. I think that's been a big part of why they're consolidating Buick, Pontiac and GMC - hoping that those three can move enough volume together to not have to shut down a brand completely. However, if all three of those are in one dealership, they can shut down one of those brands without having to buy out the entire dealership...

It cost GM over $2 Billion (about 1/4 of what GM is currently worth) to shut down the Oldsmobile dealer network.
Weigh that against what it would have cost to redesign the Aurora and Intrigue and so on (when they weren't selling).

I think that's been a big part of why they're consolidating Buick, Pontiac and GMC - hoping that those three can move enough volume together to not have to shut down a brand completely. However, if all three of those are in one dealership, they can shut down one of those brands without having to buy out the entire dealership...
IMO Buick/Pontiac/GMC is still somewhat of a half-measure. The pairing doesn't really make sense, you still have three entirely different images, three different advertising campaigns, and so on.

I don't think the brands themselves are necessarily the big problem. The issue is that GM has two dealership networks (Chevy and P/B/G) that pretty much directly compete with each other, and that lowers overall transaction prices and sales and makes for crappier uncompetitive dealerships.

Suspect the next move will be to starve or eliminate Pontiac to get P/B/G dealers to merge with Chevrolet. This isn't going to be cheap either, but hopefully it will be executed better than Oldsmobile.

Weigh that against what it would have cost to redesign the Aurora and Intrigue and so on (when they weren't selling).


Compare spreading those redesign costs across all of the W and G/C bodies vs. just opening up your wallet and spending 2 billion dollars with no return whatsoever.

You can't just say "it would cost 56 billion dollars to do a new Aurora and Intrigue and only 2 to shut down the division!" because there would, in the case of the redesign, be some return.

Besides, the problem with the Aurora and Intrigue wasn't really design. It was image.

Yeah, it obviously wasn't my call, and who knows what the real numbers were.

However, I will agree that it takes at least a decade of consistant effort to really establish a brand identity, and that Olds wasn't really given enough time to do so.

:rolleyes:

Completely bassakwards. GMC has always been a step above Chevrolet. (In luxury, power, options, price etc.)

The "GMC Truck" brand has a 100 year anniversary coming up in 4 years. I'd be shocked if they killed it now.

I understand that's how GM has always positioned GMC relative to Chevy trucks but it's not really true.

I can't think of anything in terms of luxury or options that any GMC offers over its Chevy twin other than potentially a chrome trim piece here or there... just a tad bit of fluff.

The exception being the Denali lineups. But if that's the case then why bother with any of the non-denali stuff? Much of the Denali stuff ends up overlapping with Cadillac, too.

Yeah, it obviously wasn't my call, and who knows what the real numbers were.

However, I will agree that it takes at least a decade of consistant effort to really establish a brand identity, and that Olds wasn't really given enough time to do so.

Cadillac managed to do their turnaround in about 3 years. By 5, people barely remembered the old Cadillac. Hell, Cadillac went from hopeless to cool in less than 5 years. :)

Cadillac managed to do their turnaround in about 3 years. By 5, people barely remembered the old Cadillac. Hell, Cadillac went from hopeless to cool in less than 5 years. :)

The Cadillac turnaround really started back in the 1990s with the STS and ETC. And Cadillac still really only has one big winner, the rest (STS, SRX, XLR, BTS) bombed, so I wouldn't say they've completely turned it around yet. Maybe in 5-10 years they will be seen in the same category as M-B and BMW, but not yet.

Cadillac is a good example of the long-term patience and cash necessary to nurture a brand back to health though. :)

I suspect that having trucks and SUVs on the lot will not be quite the asset in the future as it was in the immediate past.

I think the SUV fad is dead but trucks will always be in demand.

The Cadillac turnaround really started back in the 1990s with the STS and ETC. And Cadillac still really only has one big winner, the rest (STS, SRX, XLR, BTS) bombed, so I wouldn't say they've completely turned it around yet. Maybe in 5-10 years they will be seen in the same category as M-B and BMW, but not yet.

Cadillac is a good example of the long-term patience and cash necessary to nurture a brand back to health though. :)

How can you say that a car line "bombed"? Just because they don't sell many Cadillacs means they bombed?? Is it a coincidence that their "big winner" is also the least expensive? Actually, I'm not sure which car you are talking about, the CTS or the DTS?

I wonder how much it actually costs to build an XLR or XLR-V compared to a Corvette? Nevermind they sell for at least 50% more than a Corvette...

You can still make more profit by selling fewer cars and charging more for each one.

How can you say that a car line "bombed"? Just because they don't sell many Cadillacs means they bombed??
STS will be discontinued, SRX will be replaced by FWD/AWD model, XLR reportedly discontinued, BTS (a stopgap admittedly) will be replaced by RWD model. Feel free to make your own assessment but these models bombed IMO.

The Cadillac turnaround really started back in the 1990s with the STS and ETC. And Cadillac still really only has one big winner, the rest (STS, SRX, XLR, BTS) bombed, so I wouldn't say they've completely turned it around yet. Maybe in 5-10 years they will be seen in the same category as M-B and BMW, but not yet.

Cadillac is a good example of the long-term patience and cash necessary to nurture a brand back to health though. :)

I wouldn't go as far as to say it started in the late 90s. True, the planning and start of engineering started in the 90s, but on the streets, the day before the CTS pulled into a Cadillac showroom for the very 1st time Cadillac's reputation wasn't very good. If I'm, not mistaken, Lincoln was still whipping Cadillac's behind up till about 2000.

Fastforward 3-4 years. The press was swooning over the new Cadillac. To the public, Cadillac was no longer a car for those who were knowingly buying their last car. Cadillacs were in music videos, on football fields being given to NFLs MVPs, CTSv was America's hot rod sedan and knocked on the door of the world's best in handling. Even the DTS had a new look and an interior that was world's better than the past.

STS actually did pretty well in the begining. So did the XLR. SRX has been mediocore in sales, and went down from there.

However, what I'm talking about was the Cadillac IMAGE. The brand did a 180 in the public's view thanks to the CTS and Escalade. The other cars you mentioned were more or less in a supporting role.

True, but my point is more that the Buick/Pontiac/GMC issue is more of a structural problem within GM than a brand perception issue.

Pontiac has gotten that "one car" over and over again (GTO, Solstice, G8), but its irrelevant when the rest of the place is red chevrolets.