1st time to track..am I really that bad?

Ya it was terrible in many ways...missed 3rd 2/4 times...car's in the sig. Just got done w/ new head gaskets plugs/wires etc..

My best run: 60': 2.276 1/8: 9.401 MPH 77.63 1/4:14.394 MPH 99.06

I am concerned as to why the mph is so low. Can the drive mod really effect mph a whole lot? What should I be at. I was looking for a mid 13 at least, which I know it probably could do. I belive I shifted close to 6k. Tires are fuzion zri 245's basically a stock tire but a little aggressive track tread. Removed spare/sub and had about 1/4 gas. Not too sure about elevation, it was at route 66 in joilet.

Your shifting must be ugly as sin. And your launch is terrible too!

You're MPH is about 4-6 low and your 60' is over 3 tenths high!

Was that time with a missed shift?

No offense.

Practice, practice, practice. Work on that launch and you'll see dramatic improvements in your times. I imagine you were spinning quite a bit off the line. Feather the clutch a little more and see what happens. That or buy some good tires.

It takes a whole lot of practice (practice=fun), to be come good.

My first time I was granny shifting, spinning the tires, reaction times were half a second too high.... I did everything wrong.

I had drag radials on order in less than a week and started talking to the other guys at the track seeing what I could learn. I thought I knew "everything" before I even showed up at the track but I found that being a good guy, asking questions, and expressing thanks went a long way toward educating myself. It is amazing how many folks don't mind spending a few minutes to help out a newcomer.

You're shifting must be ugly as sin. And your launch is terrible too!

You're MPH is about 4-6 low and your 60' is over 3 tenths high!

Was that time with a missed shift?

No offense.
ha the missed shift runs were bad...real bad. If the 60' foot is brough down to a 2.00 wouldn't that mean a 13.5 or so. So is the shifting really that bad? I have a video I will put up later.

ha the missed shift runs were bad...real bad. If the 60' foot is brough down to a 2.00 wouldn't that mean a 13.5 or so. So is the shifting really that bad? I have a video I will put up later.

The mph is what leads me to believe the shifting is bad, or you have a slug of a car.

And with those mods, I'd think the car could do better than a 13.5 even if you did hit that.

what tires are you running?

what tires are you running?

Read the post!!

Tires are fuzion zri 245's basically a stock tire but a little aggressive track tread.

I ran quicker then you with a stock auto with CAI. Just need to work on it :)

I ran quicker then you with a stock auto with CAI. Just need to work on it :)

ET or trap? I'd totally believe the ET, but the trap is kinda high.

How old are you?
I have a feeling your just a kid? ( i am too)
On my first trip to the track i was 17, I managed a 14.02 @101 with a cai and pos flowmaster exhaust. My very first run was a 14.3@99, just to give you an idea of where you stand. It took me a solid 60-75 passes and lots of rear tires to go from 2.25 60fts to 2.00's, so this isnt something that will be cured in one day.

You really need to work on your driving, it is really that bad.
Your car with its current mods should be capable to 13.30's @105 easy. Your a full second behind.

Im in palatine,IL and will he headed to Byron and Great lakes a few times in the next month of so, if you would like to join I'll do whatever i can to help.

Your next mod should be drag radials tho. They will provide the traction you so badly need.

ET or trap? I'd totally believe the ET, but the trap is kinda high.
My trap was also higher, was like 99.5ish Them numbers did not seem odd to me at all. On a few occasionas I got into the 98's but mostly 99's

My trap was also higher, was like 99.5ish Them numbers did not seem odd to me at all. On a few occasionas I got into the 98's but mostly 99's

What's your typical DA there?

How old are you?
I have a feeling your just a kid? ( i am too)
On my first trip to the track i was 17, I managed a 14.02 @101 with a cai and pos flowmaster exhaust. My very first run was a 14.3@99, just to give you an idea of where you stand. It took me a solid 60-75 passes and lots of rear tires to go from 2.25 60fts to 2.00's, so this isnt something that will be cured in one day.

You really need to work on your driving, it is really that bad.
Your car with its current mods should be capable to 13.30's @105 easy. Your a full second behind.

Im in palatine,IL and will he headed to Byron and Great lakes a few times in the next month of so, if you would like to join I'll do whatever i can to help.

Your next mod should be drag radials tho. They will provide the traction you so badly need.

Nice, Ya I may head to byron in the next month. Leme know what date your gona be there and I'll see if it matches up. Are you going to the LTx showdown at Cardova? I plan on going to that, perhaps you can drive the sucker once just to eliminate some type of mechanical problem w/ the car(and see what time it really is capable of). I'm not really a kid...21 years old...buy anyhow. I know its about a full second behind..thats what I figured. I've got a video of my runs I'll post up later, I dont think the shifting is really the problem...but I dunno. I haden't really raced the car through all 4 gears in over a year so I was very rusty. Used to do a lot of racing in my 93 car. Anyways, I am thinking about drag radials but I really can't afford to buy a new rear end after dumping about 1k into the car during the head gasket/header swap.

It sucks when I spend nearly 1.5 years wrenching on the car and then have it suck so bad mainly because of me lol....oh well. Time to start practicing on those on ramps!

I ran quicker then you with a stock auto with CAI. Just need to work on it :)

I know what stock LT1's run and know what I ran...I was running about .2 tenths faster than another stock LT1 that same day. Stock suspension/tire + A4 will dominate stock suspension/tries M6 fbody anyday at the track in 60' translating to a big 1/4 difference. Although that is hard to belive you are trapping 99mph w/ a basically stock LT1.

MPH generally has to do with power and ET has a lot to do with launch and shifting. The DA at a track can vary significantly ober the course of a day to exact comparisons are always difficult.

When my 1994 had drag radials, a short throw shifter, Edelbrock shorty headers, and cold air I was running 13.5-13.6 at 100-101mph. 60' times were 1.9x... And this was in fairly decent air on a fairly decent track. The car was very consistent at this level and my goal was to consistenty launch, consistently cut a good reaction time, and consistently be able to hit my number. There was probably another tenth in it but I didn't go for it as my goal was to win bracket races and not bash my car in the process.

In bad air on a bad track that performance level could easily translate to 14 seconds plus...

I remember my first time on the quarter mile (I cut my teeth on a 1/8 mile track) one of my more experienced buddies congratulated me on hitting 100mph as in the old days 100 was the mark of a fast street car.

You will be just fine. I would worry less about performance and focus your improvement goals on launching and shifting.

Certainly some drag radials would help, and some looser shocks up front, disabling the front sway bar, removing any excess weight, perhaps adding a line lock to facilitate the burnout process, and then it is simply seat time and experience.

It is better to to take your time 9in my opinion) to learn the basics of the sport in a relatively slow ride. Not that your car is "slow", but it is far more forgiving than a 10 second or even 12 second car. This is the time to spend extra days at the track with people more experienced than you. Ask questions and try different things, use both lanes, experiment with staging techniques and tire pressures, try different shift points... I found the 1-2 shift could be done at a lower rpm than the 2-3 or 3-4 shifts. The goal is not to detroy your car but to obtain the maximum performance that can be repeated each and every time without hurting something.

Have some fun and one of the keys to knowing what works and what doesn't is to document everything. Start a notebook. Write down all the incremental times and weather conditions. If you spun, write it down. if you miss a shift, write it down... Often patterns of performance develop as you keep records. One year I found that the third pass of eliminations usually resulted on a .02 slowdown at a particular track. I also noticed that the air got heavy at that time of day and many people would "dial down" but the reality was the extra humidity slowed my car (at least that is how the computer would interpret the weather), and so I would dial it it a bit to compensate.

Racing in many ways is a thinking person's sport. Get to know your car as an extension of your body as the way to the winner's circle is to hit your number and cut a good light each and every time regardless of what happens in the other lane.

I looked at some time slips from apr 08 when i ran a friend with a 95z auto no headers almost stock he ran 2.224 in60' 9.289@78.30 in 1/8 14.321@97.52in 1/4
what I'm saying is about the same time but yours is faster top end
right now yours is not slow last year I saw 3 ,forth gens not break 9.40s in the 1/8
last year was the first time in 14 years I had been on the track, my nerves were shot, felt like I was on my tip toes the whole time and mines an auto. cant expect to get the best run all at once. give your self time to relax and practice ,you'll be faster. every time you kick it on the street practice power-shifting,

straight gears are an art, I learned I was not that good with a stick,68 camaro 406cid small block, 2.68 in 60' 8.18 at 91 mph in 1/8th. launching with street tires and a lot of power is hard

good luck

Is my mph consistent w/ that 1/4 mile time? Is a 13.3 @105 hard to manage w/ street tires and my setup? BTW on the 14.3 run I had just shifted into 4th about 20 yards before the end of traps and shifted at about 5500 the whole way...second time I shifted at 6k and help 3rd gear out until just about the end of traps..I have to look at what my rev limiter is set at. but what is a normal shift point for m6 lt1? Should you be hitting 4th w/ stock 3.42's in the 1/4?

As I recall, hitting fourth a few hundred feet before the traps is normal. Someone can correct me if I am wrong. I seem to remember pulling third shortly before the 1/8 mile marker and 4th at the end of the quarter. The points changed when I went to 3.73s.

I started shifting at 5400 to be safe. Then I found 5800 was a sweet spot. 6000 is more than enough, in my opinion, on a stock motor. 6800 seemed to me to be nice and consistent for bracket racing if I remember correctly. It isn't about doing what someone else does, it is about doing what is right for your car, your track, and your level of driving ability. The rev limiter is a computert thing so you will need to adjust it through a tuning device of some sort (there are multiple options available).

I do know I would run 13.5-13.6 at 100-101. When I was dipping into the high 12s I was at 104-105, but a lot of that is gearing and sixty foot times. by 106 I was in the 12.7-12.7 range... But hey, the sixty foot times
were 1.7x.... Take it all with a grain of salt. I think you can knock on the door of 12s with a mph of 105, but I believe you will need tires (realistically) and a lot of practice with a shifter. I mean a lot of practice. Most of us normal folks would invest in tires, gearing, and maybe some loose shocks up front to get into the 12s more easily. A guru with the shifter would do it with just tires in good air.

Is my mph consistent w/ that 1/4 mile time? Is a 13.3 @105 hard to manage w/ street tires and my setup? BTW on the 14.3 run I had just shifted into 4th about 20 yards before the end of traps and shifted at about 5500 the whole way...second time I shifted at 6k and help 3rd gear out until just about the end of traps..I have to look at what my rev limiter is set at. but what is a normal shift point for m6 lt1? Should you be hitting 4th w/ stock 3.42's in the 1/4?

Back when my car still had the stock 3.42's I was having to shift into 4th just before the traps just as you do. Best time I could muster was a 14.2 @ 99. The following week I got a good deal on a HPP and set my rev limiter to 6400 and was shifting @ 6200. The next time to the track instantly netted a 13.8 @ 102. The shift into 4th really kills a good time on a stock geared car.

Back when my car still had the stock 3.42's I was having to shift into 4th just before the traps just as you do. Best time I could muster was a 14.2 @ 99. The following week I got a good deal on a HPP and set my rev limiter to 6400 and was shifting @ 6200. The next time to the track instantly netted a 13.8 @ 102. The shift into 4th really kills a good time on a stock geared car.

I know my rev limiter was set at around 6400 by madz28. I think if I hold every gear out to around 6200 I wouldn't need to shift into 4th, but I don't know if I want to rev that high. I'm going to play around w/ the points next time I'm at the track, perhaps shifting into 2nd around 5.5k, and 3rd around 6k. Seems like it pulls hardest in 2nd and getting into that gear sooner w/ a lower rpm would utilize some of that low end torque more.

If one were to get a dyno tune and see exactly where peak hp was...is it then ideal to shift right after peak at the track, or is it still a guessing game?

That would be a good starting point but it's still a guessing game since the tire size and gear ratio doesn't ideally compliment the power you make nor is it designed with 1/4 mile blasts in mind.

As for shifting at 6200, I have been doing it since 2000 and that motor lasted 150,000 miles before it went (which was a totally unrelated problem to the discussion here.) New stock rebuilt motor hasn't had any problems either. But as in all things automotive related I could be one of the lucky ones. Get a few more opinions and make your best judgement from there.

shift your car at 5750 rpms. a stock car should be shifted at stock shift points.

Why? Please elaborate on your argument. Not trying to flame....just would like supporting reasons why it should be left stock. I believe that the manufacturers sometimes play it safe. Kind of like force gages and load cells. Most 100 lbs force gages have an overlimit of 50% of full scale. That means that you can actually apply up to 150 lbs of force without damage to the unit. So can you measure 120 lbs of force to it on occasion? The manufacturer states that it only goes to 100 lbs but it's not going to hurt anything if you do.

Unless you plan on running Bonneville or something along those lines an occasional sprint down the 1/4 isn't going to hurt anything IMO. At least it hasn't in the 250 runs that I have made or the late night sprints on the street back when I was young and stupid.

With that being said if there is enough of a counter argument to show that it's unsafe then I will stop revving that high until some springs are ordered.

After reading your signature with 1.6 rr's and LT4 springs there should be no reason why you can't rev it to 6200 rpm.

I think my tire pressure may have had a lot to do with the 60'. I was running near 36psi on the rears.

I think my tire pressure may have had a lot to do with the 60'. I was running near 36psi on the rears.

I'm running 20psi and it does make a diffrence

got a 1.876 best
1.887 in60' 8.256 in 1/8@85.75, 12.802@108.36 on 235 eagels with 60hp jet
pump the fronts up to 40 or 50 and let the rears down to 26psi and try, then lower @ 2# at a time till it slows down

read some of the posts for 60' times

95firehawk, are you talking to me?

I shift my stock bolt-on camaro at 6150 rpms during a pass, anything over 6200 it slowed down. Sometimes I'm a hair quick on the 2-3 shift but it doesn't seem to affect the ET much.

Every car is slightly different especially if your running a slush box with a higher stahl convertor.

I know what stock LT1's run and know what I ran...I was running about .2 tenths faster than another stock LT1 that same day. Stock suspension/tire + A4 will dominate stock suspension/tries M6 fbody anyday at the track in 60' translating to a big 1/4 difference. Although that is hard to belive you are trapping 99mph w/ a basically stock LT1.I don't understand why 99mph is hard to believe, I thought this was normal, like really normal,if not a mph slow. Here is my time, most people in my thread said I was about where I should be. I had faster mph's on other runs, but this was the best. I was under the impression a well driven m6 was quite a bit faster then an auto at the track, for example running 14's flat. Maybe im nuts lol.

R/T .430
60' 2.259
330 6.172
1/8 9.245
MPH 77.96
1000 12.044
1/4 14.319
MPH 99.12

I shift my stock bolt-on camaro at 6150 rpms during a pass, anything over 6200 it slowed down. Sometimes I'm a hair quick on the 2-3 shift but it doesn't seem to affect the ET much.

Every car is slightly different especially if your running a slush box with a higher stahl convertor.

A full second slower wouldnt account for the car just being 'different'. I'm gona go back to the track and give it hell one more time before I declare something is wrong w/ the car.

There has to be something up with your car. Despite you bad 60's your trap should still show the potential of the car. So if you ran 14.xx's your trap still should be 105,106, etc. Your ET is going to show your driving skill, your trap is your car's hp.
Your trap is what a stock car produces, which is why i think theres something up with your car.

There has to be something up with your car. Despite you bad 60's your trap should still show the potential of the car. So if you ran 14.xx's your trap still should be 105,106, etc. Your ET is going to show your driving skill, your trap is your car's hp.
Your trap is what a stock car produces, which is why i think theres something up with your car.

yeah, it makes me very angry after spending so much work on it. The one thing I can think of is this ticking noise it makes after it worms up. It started happening after the head gasket/long tubes/tuneup I have a stethoscope and couldn't pin point it. But I went ahead and re-lashed all the rr's on the side of the motor it seems to be coming from. The odd thing is it seems to be loudest on the drivers side when you put your head down by the header primary.

Do you think datalog is the best bet to try and sort this out, considering everything else is new?

It seems I am not getting the same mpg I got before everything was done to the car. Perhaps it is running rich and have no idea why since the 02's are brand new.

On a side note: is granny shifting going to effect mph at all then?

I have a thought for you, After you pre-stage, inch the car forward until it barely trips the stage light. That will allow you to get a better 60 ft. Also feather out the clutch and if that is a stock cam shift around 5400rpm. I picked up 2 tenths shifting there with a stock cam and 1.6 rr.

Your ticking may just be an exhaust leak. What kind of shape is your clutch in? Yes, granny shifting/missing shifts will kill both ET and MPH. Have you had the car on a dyno? FLP in Naperville just had an open house and they seemed very professional. They have a great reputation over on LS1tech. You might want to get it dyno'd to see where you're at HP/TQ wise and where your air/fuel ratio is.

agree with above. It may help out finding out what issues your dealing with.
The hp and tq curve will show whats up.

I replaced my temp sensor, as the one I had was indeed broken. I dropped it when installing it and that must have broken it. My fans never came on...now they come on around 200 like they are suppose to. I'm gona assume the original sensor was reading really low the whole time. None the less I still got a scanner in the mail, I will hook it up and see whats up. But I think the temp sensor helped a lot....dont want to knock on wood...so I'm not going to say it fixed the problem until I get a timeslip.

ha the missed shift runs were bad...real bad. If the 60' foot is brough down to a 2.00 wouldn't that mean a 13.5 or so. So is the shifting really that bad? I have a video I will put up later.
Simply shaving .27 seconds off your 60' time isn't going to bring your total ET down by .8 seconds. Maybe half that. The rest of the time will come with quicker shifts and in making sure that everything on your car is running right.

MPH generally has to do with power and ET has a lot to do with launch and shifting.
I can personally attest that shifting affects MPH. If you're really bad, it will affect both.

Simply switching from a quick, regular shift to a flat-footed powershift (all three shifts) took me from a 13.2x @ 107.5 to a 13.2x @ 108.9. Same day, the runs were less than an hour apart. The higher-MPH run was actually a couple hundredths slower than the other.

typically mph has to do with power and ET is driver skill. There are some exceptions(like yours) but for the most part this how things go.

typically mph has to do with power and ET is driver skill. There are some exceptions(like yours) but for the most part this how things go.

If you take a full second to shift, it's going to affect your ET.

This "typical" stuff only applies when the driver is already fairly good. :)

yeah, i guess i should of said if you can shift this should apply. If not you have a whole lot more problems.