LT1 NA bolt-on only record is broken

After a little bit of testing and a little bit of work I ran the following at Thompson Raceway Park in Thompson Ohio:

first pass
1.552 60'
4.769 330'
7.439 1/8 mile
91.63 1/8 mile mph
9.758 1000'
11.722 1/4 mile
114.59 1/4 mile mph


second pass
1.568 60'
7.448 330'
7.415 1/8 mile
91.63 1/8 mile mph
9.737 1000'
[B]11.702 1/4 mile
114.30 1/4 mile mph

third pass
ABORTED PASS: track was so bad from all the imports and street tires, car tried to hook then spun. I then packed it up and drove the car home.

I wish it was a normal bracket event versus it being a grudge night where the track would have been better as the night went on, the air wasn't that great but this time of the year 63 degree, 50% humidity, and baro of 30.2 was nice.

Josh, that electric water pump dilly really worked, I was shocked to see the gains that the water pump produced. Thanks.

That's flyin!! Congrats.

CONGRATS :metal::bow:

Did you only change the pump or did you tweak anything else? Thats some pretty impressive gains from that electric water pump if thats all that was changed.

Josh

Lots of tweaks, we tested a little prior that morning and found a few things that worked for the car. The pump was a solid .09 by itself. Thanks again!

Congratulations, Tom.

Now what?

c

Good for you Tom, I love following your efforts and improvements. Then again it pisses me off at the same time. ;)

Congrats Tom, you have put a lot of work into it for just having the car for a short time...

But, I hate to be the first to put this out there because I am going to sound like I am complaining, but is this still the same N/A bolt-on record if the intake is swapped, even if you put another GM intake on it directly out of the box, it is a different design (carb setup) then the OE intake (fuel injected setup) that most of us are trying to get this record with.

Congrats man, that is absolutely sick how quick you guys are running w/bolt-ons. :)

Any videos of ur car Tom?

Congrats Tom, you have put a lot of work into it for just having the car for a short time...

But, I hate to be the first to put this out there because I am going to sound like I am complaining, but is this still the same N/A bolt-on record if the intake is swapped, even if you put another GM intake on it directly out of the box, it is a different design (carb setup) then the OE intake (fuel injected setup) that most of us are trying to get this record with.

Is this the car with the powerglide too?

At what point do we stop calling things bolton?

The times are impressive, and the actual et is probably faster than I will ever run. But really my turbo "BOLTS" to the motor... its just exhaust right? Heads bolt on... a cam has bolts in the retainer and the timing gear...

That's why this catagory isn't "OFFICIAL". For me, the 3:73 gears alone would take it out of the bolt on catagory.

That's why this catagory isn't "OFFICIAL". For me, the 3:73 gears alone would take it out of the bolt on catagory.

There are official rules and people who try for it, and they have been in place for many years now. The rules were made up by the editors of GM High Tech when they started testing bolt-on and seeing how far people could take them. Some of us try to abide by that direction, but Tom has thought outside the box and went with a carb setup. Although he has all the standard bolt-ons I think this mainly proves how much better a carb'd car will run vs an efi car at this level...

here is the article with the rules...
http://www.1slowformula.com/gmhtp_bolt-on_article.htm


Shortly after that article was published (within a year or so) Stephen Stumpf (SAR2K) took the record to 11.90's then a year later Shon Herron set it to 11.805 where it remained until this year where a few people are gunning for it. But again according to the rules I would say Tom doesn't technically have it but he definitly took us all by suprise since we didn't think the carb would help that much. I think he should hold the record to the point that it is the fastest bolt-on car so far, but caveat it with the carb'd intake and carb, so that Shon Herron still has the official record. I say this because Tom has done a good job and should be recognized for what he has done but there are not a lot of people who will be swapping out the efi...

John, I'll let others debate that issue. The PM's and calls I've fielded from other members told me that this sort of response would be forthcoming. They also said even if I ran the FI people would still find exception about something just because that is the nature of the beast.

People can argue a thousand different points on what they believe this un-official class to be, I went with the common rules with a twist and that twist (the carb) is one of the most evil creations ever made if you listen to all the exerts boast on how FI is so superior to carbs.

To the person who asked, no this does not have a glide in it.

Mr Norton, I thought about the "cam only" deal, but I still haven't put in my good trans, good convertor, good carb, good exhaust, good rear-end or lightened my car anywhere nearly as much as the others have. So we'll see.

Yes, I have videos and timeslips that I need to figure out how to get into the computer.

Thanks everybody!

In a lot of ways, category racing reminds me of all the drama that used to be (likely still exists) within the old school NMCA cars. Now that same mentality still exists with a class known as real street. One can debate it all they like. A 7-second timeslip at 200mph on 10" tires is still impressive.

As is the case with a bolt-on car running 11-anything that from the factory clicked anywhere from 14.0's to 13.9's. Good job man, and just like others have said, there will always be questions on what is considered legit or not when categorizing a car and being the top dog in that category. Myself, just trying to get into the 12's is looking like a long shot, but I'll bet since the motor was rebuilt by the previous owner, regardless of what results I would post, that would be the issue as it is not stock anymore, even though it still houses the factory bumpstick and all factory internals, with the exception of .030" over pistons. It's all gravy. :p

Congratz, been watching for this for some time :D

To the person who asked, no this does not have a glide in it.



My appologies, someone was recently debating this on somone gunning for the record too.

So what intake is on the car? Are you saying it simply performed better because of the carb? Or did it perform better because of an intake swap and the addition of a carb? I know nothing about carbs, but arn't we just talking about limiting how much air and fuel gets into the motor?

Tom, congratulations! As far as I am concerned, you now own the record.

Anybody can swap to a carb-style intake manifold with fuel injection if they want. The LT1 intake manifold IS a restriction. There are better designs available.

oh yeah, I would love to see a video of your car in action if anybody has it?

Thanks, as soon as my un-technical self can figure out how to download the vids I'll get them up and the timeslips.

Tom if you need help with the technology stuff let me know I can see what I can do to help you out...

Congratulations Tom! :bow:

I say you should put the FI back on and click off some 11.60s to silence everyone. :D

You've put a lot of work into this and deserve the timeslip; unofficial record or not. Good for you!

Scott

John, I'll let others debate that issue. The PM's and calls I've fielded from other members told me that this sort of response would be forthcoming. They also said even if I ran the FI people would still find exception about something just because that is the nature of the beast.

People can argue a thousand different points on what they believe this un-official class to be, I went with the common rules with a twist and that twist (the carb) is one of the most evil creations ever made if you listen to all the exerts boast on how FI is so superior to carbs.

To the person who asked, no this does not have a glide in it.

Mr Norton, I thought about the "cam only" deal, but I still haven't put in my good trans, good convertor, good carb, good exhaust, good rear-end or lightened my car anywhere nearly as much as the others have. So we'll see.

Yes, I have videos and timeslips that I need to figure out how to get into the computer.

Thanks everybody!

Please don't take my comments as detrimental or derogatory. I think what you've accomplished is out standing!

However it's also meaningless. A couple of magazine editors does not constitute and Official Body of anything!!
Did you set this "record" at an Official Sanctioned event? Were there other competitors there? Were the editors of GM High Tech Mag. there? Did they sanction the timing apparatus? Did they record this "record" in any kind of historical log? Did you get a "Tech Inspection" (for this "class") before you ran? Would Guinness World Records put this in their book?
If I literally, strip my car down to nothing but a drivetrain and drivers seat, and then beat your time, do I win? See what I mean?

Also, when people talk about FI being better then Carbs, they are NOT talking about WOT 1/4 mile runs.

Please don't take my comments as detrimental or derogatory. I think what you've accomplished is out standing!

However it's also meaningless. A couple of magazine editors does not constitute and Official Body of anything!!
Did you set this "record" at an Official Sanctioned event? Were there other competitors there? Were the editors of GM High Tech Mag. there? Did they sanction the timing apparatus? Did they record this "record" in any kind of historical log? Did you get a "Tech Inspection" (for this "class") before you ran? Would Guinness World Records put this in their book?
If I literally, strip my car down to nothing but a drivetrain and drivers seat, and then beat your time, do I win? See what I mean?

Also, when people talk about FI being better then Carbs, they are NOT talking about WOT 1/4 mile runs.

The track is probably NHRA or IHRA sanctioned. Had GMHTP editors been there, they probably would have given him credit AND given him hell for ditching fuel injection like everybody else is.

Why are so many people criticizing Tom? He is obviously more familiar with carbs, so he converted his car to utilize one. Anybody could do the same, ubt they wouldn't automatically run better. It is pretty common for higher power LT1s to change their intake manifolds out to a single plane or sheetmetal. There is simply more power to be extracted with a better intake manifold design.

If you think it is so easy, then go ahead and strip down your car and outrun him.

It is pretty common for higher power LT1s to change their intake manifolds out to a single plane or sheetmetal. There is simply more power to be extracted with a better intake manifold design.


See you hit the nail on the head. It's not the carb that made the difference it's the manifold.

If you think it is so easy, then go ahead and strip down your car and outrun him.

This quote here, may be the one most people should pay closest attention to regarding what was accomplished.

This isn't NASCAR, and the only way likely everybody would be happy is if the exact same mods were done to every single fbody, then shoot it out, it would come down to driver, track conditions, weather, tailwind, etc.

But that isn't the case. Non-power adder, stock internal (rotating assembly & heads), in an fbody. Do the most you can meeting that criteria, and who finishes first? I think those times are sick considering I am having fits just getting a 12-anything out of my own fbody.

Jealousy perhaps? :) I know I am a little! :p

Fantastic job there Tom. You and 1slowformula are doing great. I enjoy seeing that the LT1 really has alot on the table from the factory. I haven't added any power yet to mine and I see some better times in it still on the table.

congrats tom! but like many others i will agree that its unoffical... u really cant change the entire intake and expect it to still be a bolt on only car... but with what u did is amazing.... 11.70? like OMFG! good luck on any future goals... i give u all the credit in the world for your setup and times...

but i have to agree with john, shon still holds the offical record...

Camaro12 et all,

I also don't think the intent of the rules was to gut a car down to the bare bones to the point it resembles a stripped recovery vehicle, nor run open headers or have the cars to not be street legal either. My car has a full interior with carpeting (except backseat), full exhaust system, bolt-on hood, I run on street tires (not slicks) and I drive my car to the track unlike those cars who have previously been faster than me. Do you see me complaining or adding exceptions to thier performance? They chose the route they did and I chose mine.

I've had plenty of conversations regarding my intake choice and the vast majority have said "Use it, but your not going to get the type of performance your expecting" Heck I even spoke to a person from GM High Tech and they said the same thing.

Honestly, if a person built a car specific to do this feat, the car could easily go 11.50's to 11.40's (maybe lower) without being overly exotic and still resemble a factory f-body and I'm not talking taking extreme weight measures into the equation. However its getting harder to find low mileage lt1 engines floating around and the "why bother" factor comes into play.

I'd like to thank all the well wishers and for the people who have called and thanked me that route.

Shon, its time to update your website. lol

ok i first off congradulated u on ur accomplishment.... my car is full interior, a/c, erg, air, radio is all still in it also... and i drive my car to and from the track week in and week out and my car is a summer DD i drive it everywhere... so i agree with u on that...

but bottom line is a 1993-1997 F-Body did not come from the factory with a carb setup, therefore u did not break the bolt on record... but u did achieve something no one even thought was possible... i really think its amazing

But, these cars also didn't come with roller rockers(except LT4's), 12 bolt rears, 4.10 gears, aluminum driveshafts, larger bore throttle bodies, 255lph fuel pumps wired properly, modified PROMS/flash programs, 3600rpm stall converters, etc.

Why draw the line with a simple manifold/carb swap vice all these other modificiations? It isn't a sheetmetal or single plane high-rise intake with a dominator. Also, what about the guys that converted to coil-per cylinder? That wasn't factory equipment either. Or drag radials/slicks?

I think the fbody world needs a sanctioned "bolt-on" fbody shootout. :cool:
I also think it would be funny, if this said shootout had more than one class, lol!

But, these cars also didn't come with roller rockers(except LT4's), 12 bolt rears, 4.10 gears, aluminum driveshafts, larger bore throttle bodies, 255lph fuel pumps wired properly, modified PROMS/flash programs, 3600rpm stall converters, etc.

Why draw the line with a simple manifold/carb swap vice all these other modificiations? It isn't a sheetmetal or single plane high-rise intake with a dominator. Also, what about the guys that converted to coil-per cylinder? That wasn't factory equipment either. Or drag radials/slicks?

I think the fbody world needs a sanctioned "bolt-on" fbody shootout. :cool:
I also think it would be funny, if this said shootout had more than one class, lol!

I like the idea.

i just think a carb setup drasticly changes the design of the motor... unlike all the other mods u listed.... taking it away from stock drasticly... thats all... i still think its awesome what tom has done i just think u should have to have the stock intake to say u have the bolt on only record....

I'd say you own the bolt on record! Great job!

Nice time. It has been proven that a carb makes more power then FI many times.:yes: