Black Box in Camaro?

I was wondering if anyone knew if the Camaro's computer will store data about the car's parameters in the event of a crash? I heard not too long ago that some guy was convicted and sent to jail as a result of an accident he had. The major piece of evidence that helped convict him was the download from his car's computer. This would not deter me from the car, but I would still like to know if the new Camaro will do this.

I would think yes. It's on just about every car now.

I would think yes. It's on just about every car now.

+1

just like they are able to tell now whether or not you had a tune, regardless if you put the stock tune back in or even if you swap computers.

Yes.
It will carry more information than you can imagine.
GM won't talk about it.

dammmmm, it's getting harder and harder to break the law.

dammmmm, it's getting harder and harder to break the law.

You say that like its a bad thing.

You say that like its a bad thing.

na, just joking. Believe me, with all the morons on the roads these days, it's a good thing.;)

yeah, my father in law just went to SMOG school to re-up his lisence and most of it was on OBD-III...its amazing technology...google that ish

Actually the purpose of the "black box" is not for legal purposes, its for warranty purposes. When i worked for honda we had a brand new accord 6 speed coupe with 2800 miles on it come in with the pistons shoved into the valves. We downloaded the info from the computer and found out it was overrevved to 10,700rpm's. At that point and time his warranty claim was denied because warranty from honda only covers defects, not driver error or stupidity.

Actually the purpose of the "black box" is not for legal purposes, its for warranty purposes. When i worked for honda we had a brand new accord 6 speed coupe with 2800 miles on it come in with the pistons shoved into the valves. We downloaded the info from the computer and found out it was overrevved to 10,700rpm's. At that point and time his warranty claim was denied because warranty from honda only covers defects, not driver error or stupidity.

What??! You mean it can't safely revv to 11,000 rpm?!!? what a bunch of MALARKY!!!

What??! You mean it can't safely revv to 11,000 rpm?!!? what a bunch of MALARKY!!!

I was actually thinking 'Why would a modern engine let itself rev so far past redline?'

Actually the purpose of the "black box" is not for legal purposes, its for warranty purposes.

Tell that to the guy that got convicted by evidence from his computer.

Found this:

US rules on big brother black boxes(Automobiles)
New Zealand Autocar ^ | 22 Aug 2006 | DAVID CRAWLEY

Posted on Wed Aug 23 03:04:44 2006 by Marius3188

WASHINGTON: The U.S. government will not require recorders in autos but has said that car makers must tell consumers when technology that tracks speed, braking and other measurements is in the new vehicles they buy.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration regulation standardises recorder content and sets guidelines for how the information should be disclosed. It also requires recorders to be more durable.

Privacy experts complained that consumer interests are not fully protected and information captured by recorders can be exploited.

Safety experts, consumer groups and insurance companies have long pressed the agency to mandate recorders in cars, but industry has responded voluntarily in recent years. About two-thirds of the new vehicles now produced each year contain the device that is connected to air bag systems. General Motors equips all its vehicles with recorders, a company spokesman said.

Regulators sought on Monday to set basic standards for their use, saying that uniform safety data will help make future auto safety regulation more precise.

Automakers have until September 1, 2010, to comply with the notification and other requirements in the new regulation, if they choose to equip their vehicles with recorders.

The rules governing auto recorders, which are similar to the 'black boxes' that store information about mechanical flight systems on commercial airliners, are intended to give law enforcement, emergency medical personnel, auto companies and safety regulators a minimum set of mechanical measurements in the seconds leading up to and during a crash.

Under the new rules, auto recorders must track vehicle speed, acceleration, and deceleration, braking, steering and some air bag functions. In some cases data on vehicle roll angle, steering inputs, and passenger safety belt use will be recorded.

Privacy experts criticized the decision to use the owners' manual to notify consumers that the vehicle contains a recorder, arguing that many people do not look at it. They also raised concerns that data could be misused for legal or insurance purposes.

"They basically punted on the privacy issues," Jay Stanley, a privacy expert with the American Civil Liberties Union, said of the NHTSA regulation. "This is a technology that is powerful and rapidly advancing and we need to bring our laws up to date."

Rae Tyson, a NHTSA spokesman, said the owner's manual is suitable for notifying consumers and stressed that recorder information is private property that cannot be downloaded without permission of the vehicle owner.

Tyson said most privacy concerns should be addressed by the courts and Congress, not by NHTSA.

I was actually thinking 'Why would a modern engine let itself rev so far past redline?'

go 100 mph down the highway and shove it in 2nd gear and find out.

You say that like its a bad thing.

Sure, people need to step out over the line every once and awhile, keeps them from going nuts and doing something really crazy.

go 100 mph down the highway and shove it in 2nd gear and find out.

Hey I did that :eek: botched a 3-4 shift at the big end of the track, mod motors sound hella-good when the tach needle bounces off the left side of the guage. I kind wish the ECM had some sort of lifetime peak value datalogging capability just to see how far that rascal revved.

go 100 mph down the highway and shove it in 2nd gear and find out.

I'd bet it's the old full throttle, max rev, 3rd to hopefully 4th, but finding 2nd, shift. :cry:

I kind wish the ECM had some sort of lifetime peak value datalogging capability just to see how far that rascal revved.


What makes you think they don't?:metal:

I'd bet it's the old full throttle, max rev, 3rd to hopefully 4th, but finding 2nd, shift. :cry:

Which is incredibly easy to do in the accords because they have very short throws and very narrow gates and very finicky clutches, if i ever get a family car, it'll be a v6 6 speed accord.

go 100 mph down the highway and shove it in 2nd gear and find out.

Good point. Didn't think of that...

Hey I did that :eek: botched a 3-4 shift at the big end of the track, mod motors sound hella-good when the tach needle bounces off the left side of the guage. I kind wish the ECM had some sort of lifetime peak value datalogging capability just to see how far that rascal revved.

If by mod motor you mean modular motor in a mustang, i work at ford now (i bounce around alot apparently lol), and yes on the 96+ mustang we can look up the "history" stored in the pcm for a certain time frame before last known but not much, if you drove it like a batt out of hell all the time then drove it like a grandma for 30 miles before u took it into the dealership, wed think u drive like a grandma.

I've got to say that this black box plsses me off. I just heard about a guy that had one drink and on the way home was involved in an accident that was not his fault.

Putting aside the obvious stupidy of drinking and driving, this guy was not drunk.

It turns out that the other guy had some insurance or other problem and that neither of them wanted to involve the police. They wanted to settle it among themselves.

Sorry. Police are on the way. Courtesy of OnStar because the airbag deployed. I will never buy a car with OnStar or a black box unless it comes with an option for peramanently disabling it.

This is the only reservation I have about buying the new Camaro. If I do buy it, the service department will be drilling a hole through the black box and Onstar before I drive it off the lot.

I will not accept big brother watching me in my own car for any reason. I certainly don't want to pay for it.

Just my 2 cents.

If by mod motor you mean modular motor in a mustang, i work at ford now (i bounce around alot apparently lol), and yes on the 96+ mustang we can look up the "history" stored in the pcm for a certain time frame before last known but not much, if you drove it like a batt out of hell all the time then drove it like a grandma for 30 miles before u took it into the dealership, wed think u drive like a grandma.

Sorta, wish I would have had something to check it out that day I botched the shift at the track, that would have been pretty interesting to see.

People have alot of misconceptions about the "black box"... For instance, as I hope most of you know, there really is no "black box". The info is downloaded mainly from airbag modules and the ECM/PCM. I do this sort of work for a living as an investigator and certified EDR Tech, and actually do it for one of the big 3 and just came back from a meeting two weeks ago on their new program. I don't want to say a whole lot, as I don't know what's exactly public info at this point, but a quick google search turned up this site...read up on it and it can inform you of exactly what these downloads can reveal. Now OnStar...that's a whole other animal.

http://www.accidentreconstruction.com/research/edr/index.asp

I've got to say that this black box plsses me off. I just heard about a guy that had one drink and on the way home was involved in an accident that was not his fault.

Putting aside the obvious stupidy of drinking and driving, this guy was not drunk.

It turns out that the other guy had some insurance or other problem and that neither of them wanted to involve the police. They wanted to settle it among themselves.

Sorry. Police are on the way. Courtesy of OnStar because the airbag deployed. I will never buy a car with OnStar or a black box unless it comes with an option for peramanently disabling it.

This is the only reservation I have about buying the new Camaro. If I do buy it, the service department will be drilling a hole through the black box and Onstar before I drive it off the lot.

I will not accept big brother watching me in my own car for any reason. I certainly don't want to pay for it.

Just my 2 cents.

If you're THAT worried about big brother watching you, you better get off the internet quick!!!!

Seriously though, You said the guy had a drink and drove then got into a wreck. Do you fully understand what DUI means? You do not have to over the legal limit to be considered under the influence, any level of alcohol into the blood stream affects reaction times and reflexes, Ive seen many people get DUI's for being on prescription medication at the time of an accident. If it impares you, and you drive, its a DUI and guess what its your fault.


As for the black box: Your 94 has this same thing on a certain level, all cars with a ecu have this. The ecu stores certain data parameters so that it can base its next move off of previous data, this helps the ecu perform its functions quicker since it doesnt have to recalc every situation. Think of it this way, its like when an internet site puts a cookie on your hard drive which stores some of the site on ur computer so it loads faster the next time. Your ecu does the same thing, it goes, ok at X% throttle in X gear at X rpm's the a/f ratio is X, so the next time it hits 38% throttle in 4th gear at 2300rpm's it knows how to adjust the air fuel mixture.


So yeah, if you want them to go drill a hole in ur ecu then go for it.

I've got to say that this black box plsses me off. I just heard about a guy that had one drink and on the way home was involved in an accident that was not his fault.

Putting aside the obvious stupidy of drinking and driving, this guy was not drunk.

It turns out that the other guy had some insurance or other problem and that neither of them wanted to involve the police. They wanted to settle it among themselves.

Sorry. Police are on the way. Courtesy of OnStar because the airbag deployed. I will never buy a car with OnStar or a black box unless it comes with an option for peramanently disabling it.

This is the only reservation I have about buying the new Camaro. If I do buy it, the service department will be drilling a hole through the black box and Onstar before I drive it off the lot.

I will not accept big brother watching me in my own car for any reason. I certainly don't want to pay for it.

Just my 2 cents.

I've heard that some Sky & Solstice owners have had problems with OnStar detecting a crash during SCCA events. The airbags don’t deploy, but they are braking and turning hard enough that the OnStar operator comes on and asks if they are okay, which can be pretty distracting in the middle of a race. :eek:

Their solution is not activating the service.

I've heard that some Sky & Solstice owners have had problems with OnStar detecting a crash during SCCA events. The airbags don’t deploy, but they are braking and turning hard enough that the OnStar operator comes on and asks if they are okay, which can be pretty distracting in the middle of a race. :eek:

Their solution is not activating the service.

Unplug the box. Can't quite do the same with the "black box", but onstar is still seperate AFAIK.

I'm not sure if i'll ever buy a new car with a "black box". I don't need someone watching me to make sure i behave. More so who's watching those who may be watching me? No one...

Unplug the box. Can't quite do the same with the "black box", but onstar is still seperate AFAIK.

I'm not sure if i'll ever buy a new car with a "black box". I don't need someone watching me to make sure i behave. More so who's watching those who may be watching me? No one...

They are NOT watching you to make sure you behave. It is there for safety and warranty purposes. If you throw a rod and we find that your cars last known rpm was 10,500rpm then that means you were doing something stupid and driving the car incorrectly and you're warranty will go poof. Do they care that the last recorded speed was 138mph? No, if they cared if you went 138 theyd limit the car to go 85. Do they care if y ou do 0-60 runs off every stoplight? No as long as you dont miss a shift or improperly use the cltuch causing hot spots. As far as onstar is concerned, its a safety issue people, you complain because if the airbag depolys they call and make sure ur ok and if u dont say anything they send authorities. If you have an air bag deploying accident, they call ur car and ask you if you are ok, if you respond with "yes, im fine thank you" they ask you if you need assistance, you say "no, i have already called a tow truck. And poof, no authorities arrive. Its not a hard concept people.

They are NOT watching you to make sure you behave. It is there for safety and warranty purposes. If you throw a rod and we find that your cars last known rpm was 10,500rpm then that means you were doing something stupid and driving the car incorrectly and you're warranty will go poof. Do they care that the last recorded speed was 138mph? No, if they cared if you went 138 theyd limit the car to go 85. Do they care if y ou do 0-60 runs off every stoplight? No as long as you dont miss a shift or improperly use the cltuch causing hot spots. As far as onstar is concerned, its a safety issue people, you complain because if the airbag depolys they call and make sure ur ok and if u dont say anything they send authorities. If you have an air bag deploying accident, they call ur car and ask you if you are ok, if you respond with "yes, im fine thank you" they ask you if you need assistance, you say "no, i have already called a tow truck. And poof, no authorities arrive. Its not a hard concept people.
Soon enough driving "hard" will be against warrrenties too. Already is with the nissan GT-R which requires an expensive dealership visit after a track day or you void the warrenty.

Soon enough driving "hard" will be against warrrenties too. Already is with the nissan GT-R which requires an expensive dealership visit after a track day or you void the warrenty.

why would a car company warranty a car outside its intended operating peramters? besides, if you can afford an $125k nissan you can afford a dealership visit after a track day if you feel so inclined. Im not sure how the dealership would know uve been on the track but that besides the point.

I don't like that there would be a black box envading my privacy, however I could see the value. There are too many people who aren't responsible enough to drive or conduct themselves responsibly, IMHO. I'm not saying that I'm always Mr. Johnny Lawful, but, I know when it's safe to play and don't threaten the safety of those around me. If it helps lower insurance too, then maybe I'd consider it if it were an option.

I don't like that there would be a black box envading my privacy, however I could see the value. There are too many people who aren't responsible enough to drive or conduct themselves responsibly, IMHO. I'm not saying that I'm always Mr. Johnny Lawful, but, I know when it's safe to play and don't threaten the safety of those around me. If it helps lower insurance too, then maybe I'd consider it if it were an option.



The big thing most of you are missing is its not a black box, its an ecu, hate to break it to you guys but if you drive an OBD2 car, it does this.

The big thing most of you are missing is its not a black box, its an ecu, hate to break it to you guys but if you drive an OBD2 car, it does this.

Exactly, there are tons of cars out there right now that people are driving that are already doing this. Been that way for awhile now.

Lets face it, car companies/dealerships are business's and are not gonna warranty work on a car thats disabled because the owner thrashed the sh!t out of it.

+1

just like they are able to tell now whether or not you had a tune, regardless if you put the stock tune back in or even if you swap computers.

Thats why my SRT's cpu is staying stock till the warranty runs out or when I buy the new Z! There have already been stories of many SRT8 owners being blacklisted for this exact reason.