2010 Federally mandated non-defeatable ESP interventions
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Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 2,368
From: OR
2010 Federally mandated non-defeatable ESP interventions
I stumbled upon this blurb while reading the Charger SRT8 review. Does any more information about what exactly these ESP interventions would be, and if there will be any trick ways to completely turn them off? I guess the Camaro's going to have them too?
From http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=125459
From http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=125459
Tricky Business
And yes, we finally do some burnouts in the Willow Springs area. Doing a burnout in this car is somewhat tricky. You can't just mash on the brake with your left foot, feed throttle with your right until the tires start spinning, then floor it and go. That worked in the original '70 Challenger. Forget about it in 2008. The culprit is modern technology.
But you can do it. First you have to shut off the ESP, which itself is a two-step process. Hit the dash button once and you get a "soft" shut-off, which means it's still kind of on. Then hold the button for 5 seconds and it's off — kind of. Yes, it's off but it will still intervene in certain circumstances.
For 2010, the federal government has mandated certain ESP interventions on all cars regardless of whether the system is off or on. Since the engineers were designing a new system for this car anyway, they dialed in the compliance for the 2010 regs. So for instance, if you mash on the brake pedal with your left foot and open the throttle with your right foot at a steady setting for 2 seconds or longer, the ESP computer interprets that as the car being "in distress" and shuts down the engine.
Big Brother Takes the Wheel
To do a really major burnout, you have to trick the electronic brain and slightly modulate your foot on the brake as you spin up the rear tires. (Modulating the throttle doesn't work as well.) The computer interprets this modulation as the driver having fun, and it's actually programmed to allow for fun. Then you'll have your burnout.
By the way, when you release the brake, don't let the revs hit the rev limiter at 6,200 rpm or the computer will shut down the engine, shift you into 2nd gear, then give you back control.
It's all a bit tricky but once you get the hang of it, you can smoke the tires at will and look like a NASCAR hero after a big win.
And yes, we finally do some burnouts in the Willow Springs area. Doing a burnout in this car is somewhat tricky. You can't just mash on the brake with your left foot, feed throttle with your right until the tires start spinning, then floor it and go. That worked in the original '70 Challenger. Forget about it in 2008. The culprit is modern technology.
But you can do it. First you have to shut off the ESP, which itself is a two-step process. Hit the dash button once and you get a "soft" shut-off, which means it's still kind of on. Then hold the button for 5 seconds and it's off — kind of. Yes, it's off but it will still intervene in certain circumstances.
For 2010, the federal government has mandated certain ESP interventions on all cars regardless of whether the system is off or on. Since the engineers were designing a new system for this car anyway, they dialed in the compliance for the 2010 regs. So for instance, if you mash on the brake pedal with your left foot and open the throttle with your right foot at a steady setting for 2 seconds or longer, the ESP computer interprets that as the car being "in distress" and shuts down the engine.
Big Brother Takes the Wheel
To do a really major burnout, you have to trick the electronic brain and slightly modulate your foot on the brake as you spin up the rear tires. (Modulating the throttle doesn't work as well.) The computer interprets this modulation as the driver having fun, and it's actually programmed to allow for fun. Then you'll have your burnout.
By the way, when you release the brake, don't let the revs hit the rev limiter at 6,200 rpm or the computer will shut down the engine, shift you into 2nd gear, then give you back control.
It's all a bit tricky but once you get the hang of it, you can smoke the tires at will and look like a NASCAR hero after a big win.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,217
From: Greenville, SC
I noticed this as well. The ESP on the Charger can be turned off by pulling fuse number 17 I believe it is. Lets hope its that easy on the Challenger and it doesn't put the car in limp mode or send the black Suburbans to your house or something.
Big Brother is really starting to overstep it's bounds and it will only get worse if and when a Democrat gets in office. I can't believe a mandate like this passed. Absurd.
Big Brother is really starting to overstep it's bounds and it will only get worse if and when a Democrat gets in office. I can't believe a mandate like this passed. Absurd.
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,179
From: Ballwin, MO
Its the mistaken belief that traffic deaths can be eliminated through legislation. To make it worse it feels like that idea is permeating all facets of life from eating habits to smoking habits. People will die, it is inevitable.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,705
From: Oakland, California
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,705
From: Oakland, California
Here you go (a year old)
NHTSA to require anti-roll tech on all cars by 2012
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/04/06/n...-cars-by-2012/
NHTSA to require anti-roll tech on all cars by 2012
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/04/06/n...-cars-by-2012/
Registered User
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 666
From: Stockton, Ca. USA
This sucks. I autoxed a new Vette and the ESP cannot be shut off all the way. The car kept acting like it was running out of gas everytime I got on it coming out of a turn. This without a doubt slowed me down and made autox no fun.
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,180
From: Yadkinville, NC USA
Just exactly which party has been in office for the last 8 years and got us into the wonderfully prosperous and peaceful economic situation we are in right now? And this Charger we are reading about... it was done under which admin?
Maybe you can blame that on the dems too.
Fuel prices MUST be due to stupid Democrats and their policies I guess.
Your shoe untied? Democrat probably did that too while you weren't looking.
Bah. It's not worth it on this one... back to the thread topic.
I have said for years now that carmakers are taking as much of the human element out of driving as possible. It might be OK for those who don't KNOW how to drive, but it can inadvertantly put a really good driver at risk because their car will not react as the laws of physics and his/her experience would have them believe. Also, I don't think any engineer or programmer can possibly think of every condition/situation that could arise on a road, and have a "canned" program optimized specifically for it. Right now I personally wish they would spend their time and money on weight savings and economy rather than complicating the engine management program to defeat unusual operating conditions.
If you blow it up and request a replacement, they would simply look at the black box to see what you were doing to deny the claim anyway.
So why bother? Put a rev limiter on it and call it a day.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 1,512
From: Miami, FL, US
Now.. if it was a friend of yours.. or your own corvette.. you can hold down the button for 10 sec and everything is off...
hopefully the GM people can work on an easy way to get rid of everything. 
