A PRODUCTION BMW that gets better fuel economy than a Prius?

545 mile run from London to Geneva.

One corner, the greenies favorite (and a car I happen to despise) the Toyota Prius. A vehicle most frequently driven by smug, self righteous folks.

In another corner, a BMW 520d with a 2.0-liter diesel engine and regenerative braking from a company that's more known here as a yuppie high roller than as it is in Europe as a full line car company.

The BMW, a fair sized 5-series based sedan (not a 3 or even 1 series)

BMW goes from 0-62 in 8.3 and reaches 144 mph, versus 11 seconds and 106 in the 500 pound lighter and more aerodynamic Prius.

Results?

Prius? 40.1 mpg.

BMW 520D? 41.9 mpg!

The BMW was also quicker, had a longer cruise range (bigger fuel tank).

Prius was cheaper to buy, though.

No, this isn't from BMW's marketing department. It's a test carried out by a couple of people from the London Times.

If we were able to get Diesel down to the price point of gasoline (again), diesel would be a better alternative to hybrids IMHO. I imagine if a Prius was diesel powered, it would be cheaper and get better fuel economy than the high tech, high-cost-to-make complex Hybrid system it has.

(short article)
http://www.technoride.com/2008/03/bmw_diesel_beats_prius_in_econ.php

(full article)
http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/driving/used_car_reviews/article3552994.ece

If their driving was mostly heavy-footed and highway then the Prius would be at a natural disadvantage. If it was moderate to light footed and in the city then the Prius was in its element.

I'm very interested in some good diesel cars showing up here in the US in the next couple of years, but every time I look at the gas prices at my local station and see the 20+% premium over regular unleaded I can't help but consider that even if the diesel vehicle got my 20+% better mileage than a comparable gas 4-cyl car I'd be breaking even, not taking into consideration the premium price I probably paid for the diesel motor itself.

I wonder what a TDI jetta would have got in that same test.

Csaba Csere has an interesting editorial on the challenges diesel faces in this month's Car and Driver. I know that there are some here who aren't fans of the monthly car rags, but he does bring up some interesting points about diesel and where it fits in the U.S. infrastructure currently.

Should American Vehicles go Diesel Just When the World is Running Short of it? (http://www.caranddriver.com/features/columns/c_d_columns/should_american_vehicles_go_diesel_just_when_the_w orld_is_running_short_of_it_column)

Results?
Prius? 40.1 mpg.

BMW 520D? 41.9 mpg!
Apples and oranges. With diesel at 50¢ more per gallon (in my area) the beemer would need to get 45.6 mpg for me to break even on fuel alone. (Compared to the Prius.) Impressive? Yes. But hardly Prius impressive.

Show me a turbo diesel that gets 50 mpg average and then I'll consider it. :D

I think because of the similar prices in europe it is better, but here it's just an extra 20grand down the whole.

Where's my Hybrid Corolla TOYOTA? HUH? HUH? That's right, you gotta buy a Prius to get the drivetrain...Or a Camry!

Diesel is cheaper than gasoline in Canada.

For high-speed driving at moderate throttle openings, diesels are likely to return better mileage - especially compared with a single-ratio system like the HSD in the Prius, which actually is less efficient than traditional drivetrains at higher speeds.

In stop-and-go traffic with a lot of low-speed driving at varying throttle openings, hybrid drive systems are going to shine.

Apples and oranges. With diesel at 50¢ more per gallon (in my area) the beemer would need to get 45.6 mpg for me to break even on fuel alone. (Compared to the Prius.) Impressive? Yes. But hardly Prius impressive.

Show me a turbo diesel that gets 50 mpg average and then I'll consider it. :D

No problem,

Just buy a diesel electric.

(Yeah, I know trains can't run on the road :D)

I think a better comparison would be the Jetta TDI. It gets a little better mileage than the BMW and the overall car cost and size is more inline with the Prius. But it is impressive the mileage the BMW gets for its size. I look forward to more diesel car options in the future.

Hmm, the BMW has to cost at least twice that of the Prius. Of course it has more power, more room, is probably more comfortable to ride in and easier to drive.

Now put a diesel in the 1-series, or even better, in the Mini, and you'd have an impressive vehicle.

Hmm, the BMW has to cost at least twice that of the Prius. Of course it has more power, more room, is probably more comfortable to ride in and easier to drive.

Now put a diesel in the 1-series, or even better, in the Mini, and you'd have an impressive vehicle.

They have diesel in a Mini. Just not in the USA...

They have diesel in a Mini. Just not in the USA...And GM builds a sub 2.0L diesel version of the Ecotec, but you can only get it in Europe. :(

With the 20% cost difference in 87 and diesel here, the BMW would need to get nearly 50mpg to be break even.

Weak! Why does the anti-hybrid crowd insist on testing hybrids in conditions that they aren't built for? These are the same retards that quote the best highway mileage their car ever got as their "norm.":rolleyes:

Hmm, the 5 Series is in a completely different class than the crappy Prius which makes the results more impressive. One of the tidier, less luxurious turbo diesel sedans with similar technology would probably end up destroying the Prius in this test, and maybe even get close to it in the city while having a cheaper buy in.

Regarding city mileage of the 520d:
Stuck in rush-hour traffic in Reims, fuel consumption dropped to an average of about 40mpg
Sadly only ~33mpg (in US gallons), but not bad for a car its size.

The computer was telling me that, for the journey as a whole, I had averaged more than 50mpg. The test had taken us along just over 200 miles of autoroute, about 200 miles of B roads, including winding ascents and descents in Switzerland, and 100 miles of urban driving.

Prius is rated at 48mpg city, 45 highway fwiw.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/capn233/1002_thaaannks.jpg

Apples and oranges. With diesel at 50¢ more per gallon (in my area) the beemer would need to get 45.6 mpg for me to break even on fuel alone. (Compared to the Prius.) Impressive? Yes. But hardly Prius impressive.

Show me a turbo diesel that gets 50 mpg average and then I'll consider it. :D

Your point is a very good one. Diesel here costs over $4.10, regular costs about $3.60.

The point though is that from an enviromental standpoint, and from a standpoint of using less fuel, the Prius can be matched and surpassed. It isn't the golden fleece that it's fans seem to proclaim it.

Weak! Why does the anti-hybrid crowd insist on testing hybrids in conditions that they aren't built for? These are the same retards that quote the best highway mileage their car ever got as their "norm.":rolleyes:

It's fair to test Hybrids in the same variations of driving conditions that everyone else has to drive, not only urban-only conditions.

The point though is that from an enviromental standpoint, and from a standpoint of using less fuel, the Prius can be matched and surpassed. It isn't the golden fleece that it's fans seem to proclaim it.Agreed. IMHO bio-diesel is far greener than E85, and hybrids are today's pet rock. Once the shine wears off and people find something greener, hybrids will need to evolve into something else, or they'll disappear altogether.

Agreed. IMHO bio-diesel is far greener than E85, and hybrids are today's pet rock. Once the shine wears off and people find something greener, hybrids will need to evolve into something else, or they'll disappear altogether.

What I don't like about most hybrids is that they aren't cost effective for most consumers. I'm all for saving energy, but for most consumers, buying a Corolla makes more sense than a Prius.

That being said, some of the technologies used in hybrids can and should be applied throughout the industry. Regenerative braking (electric or air), and drivetrains that don't need to idle when the vehicle is stopped.
In city driving, these technologies can save a lot of fuel.

What I don't like about most hybrids is that they aren't cost effective for most consumers. I'm all for saving energy, but for most consumers, buying a Corolla makes more sense than a Prius.

That being said, some of the technologies used in hybrids can and should be applied throughout the industry. Regenerative braking (electric or air), and drivetrains that don't need to idle when the vehicle is stopped.
In city driving, these technologies can save a lot of fuel.This is chicken and egg, though. You can't have cost-effective next-generation hybrid technology for the masses, if you don't have early adopters willing to pay the extra cost for the first generation stuff, that ultimately finances the next generation (and always cheaper) stuff.
It's fair to test Hybrids in the same variations of driving conditions that everyone else has to drive, not only urban-only conditions.If your purpose is to save money on fuel, you don't buy a vehicle that's not optimized for your particular driving conditions. If I lived in the sticks and commuted 60 miles each way at 70mph, I wouldn't even consider a hybrid as a high-mileage choice. If I drove in craptastic DC traffic everyday, the hybrid would be perfect.

So they did a 550 mile road trip where they got stuck in traffic a few times, now let's see a 550 mile city work commute over a 2-3 week period, and see how the comparison stacks up.

Finally, I can't figure how they got such low mileage. My brother is an AWFUL driver (heavy foot, late-braking gas pumper- you know what I'm talking about), and he still manages 44mpg in his Prius. I'm guessing it had a lot to do with the 78+mph cruise speed, and you can't cheat physics there.:)

Apples and oranges. With diesel at 50¢ more per gallon (in my area) the beemer would need to get 45.6 mpg for me to break even on fuel alone. (Compared to the Prius.) Impressive? Yes. But hardly Prius impressive.

Show me a turbo diesel that gets 50 mpg average and then I'll consider it. :D


A mid size luxury car that has some grunt and can move

vs

an egg carton on wheels that can't outrun a school bus.

yeah apples and oranges.

I'll take the oranges.

If your purpose is to save money on fuel, you don't buy a vehicle that's not optimized for your particular driving conditions. If I lived in the sticks and commuted 60 miles each way at 70mph, I wouldn't even consider a hybrid as a high-mileage choice. If I drove in craptastic DC traffic everyday, the hybrid would be perfect.

So they did a 550 mile road trip where they got stuck in traffic a few times, now let's see a 550 mile city work commute over a 2-3 week period, and see how the comparison stacks up.

People who drive Prius don't look at their cars the way a Yaris, or Escort, or any other economy car driver views their car. Those drivers tend to buy and view their cars as a way to save gas, and the cars practicality. Prius drivers as a group really do tend to be much like the South Park episode parodied. They feel they are making a statement in saving the enviroiment, and the Prius is their "Good Citizen" badge.

If the Prius looked like a Corolla or any other regular car, it would as surely be stacked up on dealer lots as Ford's Escape Hybrids were till just recently (Ford's been making Escape Hybrids for quite some time!). On the flip side, if the Prius was conventionally powered, it also would probally sit on lots.

Prius has it's good points. But a conventionally powered car has just as much potential. BMW proves it.

It's going to be intresting when GM's Volt comes to market. That's the time when we'll see if those very same people really do have enviromental credentials, or are simply just arrogant Toyota-is-green mouthpieces.

Finally, I can't figure how they got such low mileage. My brother is an AWFUL driver (heavy foot, late-braking gas pumper- you know what I'm talking about), and he still manages 44mpg in his Prius. I'm guessing it had a lot to do with the 78+mph cruise speed, and you can't cheat physics there.:)

Easy.

They drove the Prius like a regular car.

Just like car reviewers drive a Malibu, a Cobalt, a Mini, a Mustang, and pretty much every other car around.

Treating the Prius with kid gloves and restricting it to nothing but urban driving in reviews is like declaring a Charger SRT8 is a car everyone should be driving simply because it gets great 0-60 times when you limit testing to a drag strip.