Ford developing RWD platform as GM abandons theirs...

...well, at least Ford is working on a new RWD platform.

Autoblog.com (http://www.autoblog.com/2008/03/24/ford-developing-new-rear-drive-platform-in-dearborn/)

Ford has apparently finally heard the call and green-lighted development of a new global rear wheel drive platform and a family of vehicles to be built on it.......This new Ford architecture to be developed near Detroit, however, will spawn models for both the Ford and Lincoln brands, including an all-new Mustang. With Ford making a major push to reduce weight in future models, hopefully these new cars will come in a lot lighter than the GM equivalents, as well.

Interesting, I wonder if they will run into the same fuel economy "issues" that GM claims they did with the RWD Impala?

Ford already had a good RWD platform in the DEW98 (which in a very roundabout fashion became the S197, in the typically painful and convoluted Ford way). Hopefully this platform provides the same performance, but at a lower cost and without a few of the DEW's warts.

CAFE shouldn't be an issue for a $30K+ sedan that'll only sell ~100K units/year. I remain convinced that GM has other reasons for killing off most of their RWD models (such as an insufficiently deep piggybank).

CAFE shouldn't be an issue for a $30K+ sedan that'll only sell ~100K units/year. I remain convinced that GM has other reasons for killing off most of their RWD models (such as an insufficiently deep piggybank).

Yes but isn't the cost of not participating greater than the cost of participating? It would seem odd that both Chrysler and Ford are able to justify building their RWD platforms while GM (in similar financial plight) deems the RWD route is not economically or technically viable.

I fail to see how it would cost GM more to reconsider reverting back to FWD when plans are already well advanced to continue down the RWD route.

I'm still confused when people say GM "abandoned" its RWD platform. GM currently has FOUR RWD platforms being sold in the US of A: Y-Body, Kappa, Sigma, and Zeta. Ford offers two - S197 and a taxicab. Nothing in this story indicates that Ford's RWD NA program will be any bigger than the current Zeta. Given the priority that CAFE regulation will take, I doubt this program will be as extensive as some here seem to think.

I'm also intrigued by the decision to move design to Detroit from Australia. I wonder if this is smart cost effective decision making or Ford NA chauvinism. Anyone with Australia sources (Guy?) want to chime in on this?

Since nobody seems to know exactly what RWD cars GM and Ford are actually going to bring to market, it seems kinda useless to compare them at this point.

S197 is code for the 05 mustang

D2C is the chassis/platform

I'm still confused when people say GM "abandoned" its RWD platform. GM currently has FOUR RWD platforms being sold in the US of A: Y-Body, Kappa, Sigma, and Zeta. Ford offers two - S197 and a taxicab. Nothing in this story indicates that Ford's RWD NA program will be any bigger than the current Zeta. Given the priority that CAFE regulation will take, I doubt this program will be as extensive as some here seem to think.

I'm also intrigued by the decision to move design to Detroit from Australia. I wonder if this is smart cost effective decision making or Ford NA chauvinism. Anyone with Australia sources (Guy?) want to chime in on this?They've only recently stated that they're staying FWD with the next gen Impala, that is all, correct?

Since nobody seems to know exactly what RWD cars GM and Ford are actually going to bring to market, it seems kinda useless to compare them at this point.Yep!

It's all propaganda at this point. :rolleyes:

They've only recently stated that they're staying FWD with the next gen Impala, that is all, correct?

Yep!

It's all propaganda at this point. :rolleyes:

Right. We're talking about fluctuating plans. And it's a safe bet that whatever market forces impact GM's final decision will affect Ford as well.

What I do know is that GM has a modern RWD sedan at the dealer right now, which Ford does not. GM has facts on the ground, Ford has plans.

I'm not saying GM's RWD plans are perfect or that Ford cannot succeed with their initiative. But right now, I wouldn't rush to point to Ford's non-existant RWD program as an example to follow.

Man the GRWD plateform for Ford has me scared, on one hand it will offer some possibly some neat stuff like the virtual pivot front end, but damn I can't see the Mustang not gaining weight if this plateform is designed to underpin big full size cars. Heavy as it is, the current Mustang looks to be the lightweight in the pony car segement (if you want to count the Challenger).

Maybe with the GRWD plateform Ford will adopt overall smaller dimensions (the Mustang is really a big car, but it makes concessions to styling that really hurt packaging - well if your into that kind of thing, I'd rather not have it look like a retarded V8 Sentra) and stronger materials that can translate into weight savings.

I'm still confused when people say GM "abandoned" its RWD platform. GM currently has FOUR RWD platforms being sold in the US of A: Y-Body, Kappa, Sigma, and Zeta. Ford offers two - S197 and a taxicab.

So we have a RWD platform that supports expensive sport cars (y-body), Sigma that is exclusive to Caddy, Kappa that is only offered in one car and that is all it will probably be limited to with variations of it, and Zeta that is not offered yet and only will see day light in the future Camaro and maybe some high end luxury cars. So tell me how in the great scheme of things this even matches up with the large sedan RWD cars that will be affordable for the majority of the public?

So we have a RWD platform that supports expensive sport cars (y-body), Sigma that is exclusive to Caddy, Kappa that is only offered in one car and that is all it will probably be limited to with variations of it, and Zeta that is not offered yet and only will see day light in the future Camaro and maybe some high end luxury cars. So tell me how in the great scheme of things this even matches up with the large sedan RWD cars that will be affordable for the majority of the public?

If you think you're going to get all that much more affordable than the $27,000 G8 in this economy, you're dreaming. Hell, the Grand Marquis starts at $25,000 (although I'm sure they get considerably less). Do you think Ford is magically going to come up with a $20,000 V8 muscle sedan?

Even more importantly, the G8 is here NOW. As in, you can go out and buy one. To Ford's credit, they've enjoyed the same advantage over the Camaro for six years. A RWD sedan sitting on the dealer lot is worth much more to me than some super duper sedan that exists only in rumor.

First of all, GM is NOT abandoning RWD platforms. The 2010 Camaro will be around at least till late next decade. So will the 2011 DTS, the Buick sedan, and a G* or it's successor as long as sales hold up.

GM is also going with the so-called Alpha chassis. It's bringing a smaller Cadillac, a Holden (and by association, a Pontiac sedan), and at least 1 coupe.

Ford's RWD platform is being developed at or with (if not primarily by) Ford of Australia.

It's currently scheduled to be out in time to replace the Crown Victoria in 2012 (which is also scheduled to be sold in Oz as the replacement for the Fairlane and LTD). This chassis, with a shorter wheelbase, will also be sold in Oz as the all new Falcon. Most noteworthy is that the next Mustang is due to be based on this chassis.

If anyone's questionable on the future of RWD it's Chrysler. As of this moment, there is no clear future RWD program there. Chrysler does plan a round of redesigns on the LX/LY, but unlike Ford and GM, there apparently is no all new structure on the boards.

The only reason why it's percieved GM pulled out of RWD is because they cancelled the RWD Impala, which looking at the current FWD Impala's sales rate, shouldn't surprise anyone.

I thought this "GM abandoning RWD" myth/perception/silliness had been dispelled already....apparently not.:rolleyes:

Kudos to Ford. And this is not to say that GM is perfect in the RWD category, but still, they're a long way from "abandonment". Please....

Dav305z, and GuionM : +1. It's good to see not everybody has fallen for this...'myth'.

If you think you're going to get all that much more affordable than the $27,000 G8 in this economy, you're dreaming. Hell, the Grand Marquis starts at $25,000 (although I'm sure they get considerably less). Do you think Ford is magically going to come up with a $20,000 V8 muscle sedan?

While I would enjoy a 20k V8 muscle sedan, I never suggested on. Maybe a V6 or Ecoboost setup. Even Chrysler offers the Charger/300 starting in the low 20s. While they are not impressive, I'm sure that Ford or even GM could do something that was for that kind of money.

Also, since all this FWD is better for gas mileage crap I keep hearing from Lutz, is Pontiac suppose to be going all RWD or is that another thing that is hanging in the air? I wouldn't mind getting me a G6 sized RWD sedan with either a 3.6 or some with DI. Before someone mentions the CTS, I don't have that kind of money. Hell, just give me G6 RWD sedan with the turbo 4 in the GXP/Redline and I'll be good, of course with a manual though if I end up getting married to my current gf that might have to change to an auto, but still a 6 spd.

If anyone's questionable on the future of RWD it's Chrysler. As of this moment, there is no clear future RWD program there. Chrysler does plan a round of redesigns on the LX/LY, but unlike Ford and GM, there apparently is no all new structure on the boards.


The insider-info flow from Chrysler has slowed way down in the last few months, but... there is an element (which includes prominent dealers) that would like to not only keep the big cars RWD, but move the midsizers to a new RWD platform as well. I have no clue where that debate stands right now, though.

I thought this "GM abandoning RWD" myth/perception/silliness had been dispelled already....apparently not.:rolleyes:

Kudos to Ford. And this is not to say that GM is perfect in the RWD category, but still, they're a long way from "abandonment". Please....

Dav305z, and GuionM : +1. It's good to see not everybody has fallen for this...'myth'.


There are still sources at GM that INSIST that Zeta is dying. That's why the 'myth' persists.

And given that GM is known for relatively stupid management decisions, it's not hard to do the math.

Now, the same 'source' also maintained that the G8 would be short lived and that the G8 ST and G8 GXP would not come here, so go figure.

As far as Zeta, we've lost 3 cars already. The Impala was the first and that was because CAFE gave the anti-RWD people in GM, who didn't want the car anyway, enough sway to kill it. The G8 Sportwagon was killed because it messed with the business plan on the G8 ST too much and the GTO was killed, presumably for CAFE alone. But then we got the Holden 60, so who knows?

Pontiac is supposedly now being "adjusted" for CAFE which means that Zeta couls still die and that the division will probably just have a bunch of crappy FWD Chevy clones IMO.

If anyone's questionable on the future of RWD it's Chrysler. As of this moment, there is no clear future RWD program there. Chrysler does plan a round of redesigns on the LX/LY, but unlike Ford and GM, there apparently is no all new structure on the boards.


Maybe this is short-sighted, but given the fact that DCX currently has more RWD volume than the others in the US, I'm not quite so ready to count them out in this market. The LY platform could languish for quite some time without major upgrades and still be a competitor, just as the Panther and B-body have done in the past.

Obviously, Cerebus or a future owner could make my words look silly.

There are still sources at GM that INSIST that Zeta is dying. That's why the 'myth' persists.

And given that GM is known for relatively stupid management decisions, it's not hard to do the math.

Now, the same 'source' also maintained that the G8 would be short lived and that the G8 ST and G8 GXP would not come here, so go figure.

As far as Zeta, we've lost 3 cars already. The Impala was the first and that was because CAFE gave the anti-RWD people in GM, who didn't want the car anyway, enough sway to kill it. The G8 Sportwagon was killed because it messed with the business plan on the G8 ST too much and the GTO was killed, presumably for CAFE alone. But then we got the Holden 60, so who knows?

Pontiac is supposedly now being "adjusted" for CAFE which means that Zeta couls still die and that the division will probably just have a bunch of crappy FWD Chevy clones IMO.
Based on the speculation we've been reading in the past few weeks, it seems like GM is leaning toward stuffing 4-bangers in the RWD cars rather than nixing them altogether. And the ad effort we're seeing with the G8, coupled with the uncharacteristically quick roll out of the GXP, gives me hope that they aren't planning to get rid of it in two years.

I'm all for going the 4-cylinder route. Those engines are plenty powerful at this point, and I'd rather have a 4-banger RWD car than a V6 frontloader.

Based on the speculation we've been reading in the past few weeks, it seems like GM is leaning toward stuffing 4-bangers in the RWD cars rather than nixing them altogether. And the ad effort we're seeing with the G8, coupled with the uncharacteristically quick roll out of the GXP, gives me hope that they aren't planning to get rid of it in two years.

I'm all for going the 4-cylinder route. Those engines are plenty powerful at this point, and I'd rather have a 4-banger RWD car than a V6 frontloader.

GM won't kill any production Zetas after only 2 years. You can probally bet the farm Camaro will last as long as sales hold up, at least till the 2nd half of next decade. G8's good till at least 2012. Cadillac and Buick's Zeta will still be around when that 35 mpg goal kicks in in 2020.

There's a contengent at GM that is, was, and will be very anti-Zeta. The G8 sedan, G8 ST, the Holden 60 coupe concept, and the upcoming Buick sedan all represent the tire tracks that ran over their insistance that Zeta was dead and that there was no way these cars would happen.

There's a contengent at GM that is, was, and will be very anti-Zeta.

What is the reason for the animosity of this contingent towards Zeta and do we know who they are?