5th gen IP and 20091/2 mustang IP

I was reading the new issue of Motor Trend yesterday and they had article about the 2009 1/2 mustang. The article stated that Mustang is gonna have a more modern dash than the current model does. The new IP is supposedly more driver oriented.

Seeing those pics of the 5th gen IP makes me think how hard those gauges are gonna be to read when your on a road course doing 100+ mph.
I think 5th gen IP (the whole dash for that matter) is more style oriented than driver oriented. The IP kinda reminds me of my uncles 72 Olds 88 not a modern sports car.

Then buy a mustang???

Seeing those pics of the 5th gen IP makes me think how hard those gauges are gonna be to read when your on a road course doing 100+ mph.That's what HUD is for. :D

Seeing those pics of the 5th gen IP makes me think how hard those gauges are gonna be to read when your on a road course doing 100+ mph.


One word.....HUD

Seeing those pics of the 5th gen IP makes me think how hard those gauges are gonna be to read when your on a road course doing 100+ mph.


speed, RPM, fuel, and coolant temp are as easily accessable as any car .. i dont see why they would be harder to read...
and those are the most important ones to see if you happened to be going 100+mph.. so i dont see the problem

stuff on the center console is not vital info really.. and if you really needed to know that stuff put it up on the HUD :P

I really hope there's a comprehensive HUD, something colorful and stunning...

Two words...

user programmable. :D

Road Course at 100+mph...fair enough, but how often are you gonna be doing that? :p

HUD cures not being able to read the gauges... but what cures the 70's dash.

but what cures the 70's dash.
Oh, Boy..........................:leaving:

HUD cures not being able to read the gauges... but what cures the 70's dash.

Like I said before, if you dont like it, buy a mustang.

One word.....HUD

thats not a word... its an acronym.

:D

Like I said before, if you dont like it, buy a mustang.

Good advice, the F5 should only be resereved for the faithful and the hardcore, after all look what it did for the F4 :rolleyes:

I think everyone's entitled to their own opinion, and there are sure a lot on here, but it seems to me that the prevailing sentiment I see from those negative on the interior is that it isn't enthusiast oriented enough. That they're putting style before function. That doesn't seem to be aiming at the hardcore to me...

Good advice, the F5 should only be resereved for the faithful and the hardcore, after all look what it did for the F4 :rolleyes:
So - how do you like the new Camaro? Have you driven one?

Have you ruled out buying one?

I was reading the new issue of Motor Trend yesterday and they had article about the 2009 1/2 mustang. The article stated that Mustang is gonna have a more modern dash than the current model does. The new IP is supposedly more driver oriented.

Seeing those pics of the 5th gen IP makes me think how hard those gauges are gonna be to read when your on a road course doing 100+ mph.
I think 5th gen IP (the whole dash for that matter) is more style oriented than driver oriented. The IP kinda reminds me of my uncles 72 Olds 88 not a modern sports car.

Modern as in how? Like not using crushed up tooth brush's to make the dash? To remove the circa 1993 green digital displays from the radio?
How about removing all that fake metalic crap off the wall they call a dash? Any of that fall under "modern"?

No one knows how hard the guages are gunna be able to be read on a road course at 100mph. You are taking your assumption from a 2mp camera phone.

How do I like the new Camaro?

Good looking car, looks to have a great chassis and as can be expected, GM looks to have a top notch drivetrain, dont care for the inteior.

Have I driven one, no, but if anybody wants to give me the keys to a mule, pass it my way and I'll be glad to beat on it like a red-headed stepchild.

Would I buy one, depends?

Honestly I'm not a fan of the F1, they like this car were good looking (except the interior) and by dent I feel the same way about the F5, I would have prefered a car that was more like the early F2 (both inside and out), but it is what it is.

Ultimately in this first run of cars, no. I'll wait and see before I rush out and trade in my Mustang rather than paying it off, however when that time arrives I'll consider my options.

All the same, what purpose does it serve to tell somebody to kiss off and go buy a Mustang if you aren't gushing with heaps of praise for the F5? My advice, start a thread entitled, "F5 opinions wanted, but only if you've put down a deposit or have a checkbook in hand - all other replys are not under consideration" if the faithful/hardcore don't want opnions or observations to the contrary.

The dash of the 2010 Camaro is what it is. You either like what's seen in the spy pics, have no opinion or don't like them. Complaining about the interior or praising it won't have any effect on it. I suggest waiting until the car is at the dealer and you can see and sit in it yourself. Then make the decision to spend your hard earned dollars and sign the dotted line or not. It's that simple there is no debate because there never was any. GM made a decision on the interior as they did with the exterior and will build it the best way they can. Just because Scott takes time to pop in and give us some info from time to time doesn't mean CamaroZ28.com has a seat at the 2010 Camaro team meeting every Monday morning.

Like I said before, if you dont like it, buy a mustang.


You know what? Ive done that before.....In 2001 I bought a new Cobra, I had a 1996 Z28 before the Cobra. Maybe it wasn't as fast as the LS1 but the Cobra was put together way better than ANY fourth gen Ive been in and thats why I bought it. Everyone here has an opinion and I will state mine. I see all the cheerleaders on this board and it makes me sick that if you don't agree with them you should go and buy a Mustang. Maybe I will.

I see all the cheerleaders on this board and it makes me sick that if you don't agree with them you should go and buy a Mustang.I wonder why there are a bunch of Camaro fans on a site called CamaroZ28.com... hmmm...I don't spend all my time on CivicSi.com telling them how much the new Civic sucks, and I hate its interior. (even though it does suck, and I do hate it)

Originally Posted by BitchinCamaro:
I wonder why there are a bunch of Camaro fans on a site called CamaroZ28.com... hmmm...I don't spend all my time on CivicSi.com telling them how much the new Civic sucks, and I hate its interior. (even though it does suck, and I do hate it)
But, if you've owned Civics since High School, every gen, and loved them for whatever reasons, and suddenly they were changing for what you thought was, the "worse".
Wouldn't you voice your opinion?
Wouldn't it be more than "important" to you?
*But then the young guns, just cuttin' their teeth on Civics, unilaterally praised it, and stifled your opinions as "bitching".
How would you feel?
I mean, you just want the Civic to be its BEST...:think:
(uhmmm, Camaro :) )

HUD is additional money and cost in an effort to compensate for a bad idea, in this case the location of guages in an area (on the lower center console) that you aren't likely to quickly glance at driving at freeway speeds, let alone during any high speed driving.

Good advice, the F5 should only be resereved for the faithful and the hardcore, after all look what it did for the F4 :rolleyes:

:bow: Good point!

The interior, specifically the technological parts, were one area where I was glad the Camaro was "evolving".
Heritage design is more welcome in the astetics...

HUD is additional money and cost in an effort to compensate for a bad idea, in this case the location of guages in an area (on the lower center console) that you aren't likely to quickly glance at driving at freeway speeds, let alone during any high speed driving.
I disagree. The value of the HUD is in showing frequently viewed parameters, such as speed and maybe radio channel. People simply do not go down the road, obsessively monitoring their bus voltage every ten seconds. That would be mighty boring, since on a modern car, voltage, oil pressure are typically either 'all OK' or 'OMG something just blew up'. In the latter case, you get a warning light and chime anyway.

As for cost of a HUD... it's likely not as much as many might think, since GM has many years now of experience with integrating these into cars. The hardware itself isn't all that complex, just a small light projector, and the electronic signals are simple to plug into due to modern powertrain controls and body controller modules.

speed, RPM, fuel, and coolant temp are as easily accessable as any car .. i dont see why they would be harder to read...
and those are the most important ones to see if you happened to be going 100+mph.. so i dont see the problem

stuff on the center console is not vital info really.. and if you really needed to know that stuff put it up on the HUD :P

My thought on this is that the oil pressure gauge is a real biggy when you're on the track (for obvious reasons) and I've also been very thankful for having the voltmeter front and center as well... for saving my bacon by telling me that the V-belt flew off, coincidentally down a 100 mph straightaway. I looked down to check my gauges and it's showing "0" charge!
There is an almost 90 degree right-hander at the end of that straight (Fabi straight at Shannonville Motorsports Park in Ontario) and I'd have definitely gone right off the track if I would have attempted that turn without knowing the car had lost its power steering! Thankfully, I slowed down and started my turn-in sooner in order to compensate.
http://www.shannonville.com/img/trackmap_fabi.gif
Road Course at 100+mph...fair enough, but how often are you gonna be doing that? :p

Been doing this on an average of 3 times per season since 1999 with my '98 SS. If having the gauges front and center saves you from going "agricultural" just once, or saves a blown engine just once (as it did for me due to a faulty oil pump) then that "once" is all it takes to make them being there worthwhile, IMHO. A driver's car needs to have these gauges (oil press. & voltmeter), directly in the driver's line of sight.

The way I see it, I'm prepared to pay a little extra for a HUD to have my cake and eat it too... cool gauges on top of the floor console and to have the redundant info on the HUD when it's time to get down to business.

Best regardSS,

Elie

My thought on this is that the oil pressure gauge is a real biggy when you're on the track (for obvious reasons) and I've also been very thankful for having the voltmeter front and center as well... for saving my bacon by telling me that the V-belt flew off, coincidentally down a 100 mph straightaway. I looked down to check my gauges and it's showing "0" charge!
There is an almost 90 degree right-hander at the end of that straight (Fabi straight at Shannonville Motorsports Park in Ontario) and I'd have definitely gone right off the track if I would have attempted that turn without knowing the car had lost its power steering! Thankfully, I slowed down and started my turn-in sooner in order to compensate.
http://www.shannonville.com/img/trackmap_fabi.gif


Been doing this on an average of 3 times per season since 1999 with my '98 SS. If having the gauges front and center saves you from going "agricultural" just once, or saves a blown engine just once (as it did for me due to a faulty oil pump) then that "once" is all it takes to make them being there worthwhile, IMHO. A driver's car needs to have these gauges (oil press. & voltmeter), directly in the driver's line of sight.

The way I see it, I'm prepared to pay a little extra for a HUD to have my cake and eat it too... cool gauges on top of the floor console and to have the redundant info on the HUD when it's time to get down to business.

Best regardSS,

Elie

So what you're saying Elie, is that intellectually you know that a serious performance car like a Camaro needs easily monitored gauges.

Since we're not getting those, a HUD is a necessity.



Honestly, I thought the 'ornamental' console gauges would be my pet peeve on the interior. After seeing the rest of it though, those are now the least of my interior concerns.

So what you're saying Elie, is that intellectually you know that a serious performance car like a Camaro needs easily monitored gauges.

Since we're not getting those, a HUD is a necessity.

Honestly, I thought the 'ornamental' console gauges would be my pet peeve on the interior. After seeing the rest of it though, those are now the least of my interior concerns.

Absolutely correct. Intellectually and realistically! ... and given Chevrolet's intention of making this a real driver's car, I would be totally astounded if at least the performance version of this car did not have the facility to keep that info in the driver's line of vision!

Now having said that, I tip my hat to the Camaro team for recognizing the "Wow" factor of those console mounted gauges while hopefully taking into consideration the requirements of the relatively few "track junkies" like me who are out there.

In the whole scheme of things, I want this car to be a resounding success in terms of sales as I have no doubt we all do!... so I can have my "take no prisoners" track car - right from the factory! (selfish SOB, aren't I?:D)

In order to achieve that goal, the car needs to appeal to as many customers as possible. This is no small feat when the goal is to achieve many conquest sales at the same time.

Do I like those gauges there? No - definitely not my 1st choice... but if having those gauges on the console means more buyers, thus helping to ensure the success and longevity of the car, then I'm all for it as a feature. I don't need 'em there, but I'll be happy to take my 2nd choice and make use of a HUD on the track.

Best regardSS,

Elie

Do I like those gauges there? No - definitely not my 1st choice... but if having those gauges on the console means more buyers, thus helping to ensure the success and longevity of the car, then I'm all for it as a feature. I don't need 'em there, but I'll be happy to take my 2nd choice and make use of a HUD on the track.

Best regardSS,

Elie

Fair enough.

So what you're saying Elie, is that intellectually you know that a serious performance car like a Camaro needs easily monitored gauges.

Since we're not getting those, a HUD is a necessity.

Honestly, I thought the 'ornamental' console gauges would be my pet peeve on the interior. After seeing the rest of it though, those are now the least of my interior concerns.
Now that's strange. Some here seem excited about the lightweight Mazda MX5... and it is known to be a serious performance car for road courses. By this standard, it is alarmingly short on gauges:

http://blogs.edmunds.com/.ee99246/cmd.233/embedded..ee99244

And here I thought the Subaru WRX STi was this advanced track car too. Turns out it's got a gauge deficit too :death:

http://www.autobytel.com/images/2006/Subaru/WRX_STi_Staff/400/06_Subaru_WRXSTi_27.jpg

I wonder if any of these cars have those newfangled warning lights, for undervoltage and low oil pressure?

Now that's strange. Some here seem excited about the lightweight Mazda MX5... and it is known to be a serious performance car for road courses. By this standard, it is alarmingly short on gauges:

http://blogs.edmunds.com/.ee99246/cmd.233/embedded..ee99244



When you say "some" - you mean me?

Lemme see...

I see a clearly marked and prominent tach, a clearly marked and prominent speedo, an oil pressure gauge front and center, water temp and fuel gauge - and a centrally located DIC which has a voltmeter function. All wrapped in a business like and attractive binnacle.
I LOVE IT!

Now just give the Camaro the Miata's center stack, steering wheel and short throw shifter and we're in business. :metal:

Now that's strange. Some here seem excited about the lightweight Mazda MX5... and it is known to be a serious performance car for road courses. By this standard, it is alarmingly short on gauges:

http://blogs.edmunds.com/.ee99246/cmd.233/embedded..ee99244

And here I thought the Subaru WRX STi was this advanced track car too. Turns out it's got a gauge deficit too :death:

http://www.autobytel.com/images/2006/Subaru/WRX_STi_Staff/400/06_Subaru_WRXSTi_27.jpg

I wonder if any of these cars have those newfangled warning lights, for undervoltage and low oil pressure?

Definitely a lack of info with respect to voltage... but interesting, to say the least, that Mazda does put the oil pressure gauge front & center right between the speedo and tach.
Conversely, I sure wouldn't call my '98 Grand Caravan a serious track car, even though it has a full compliment of gauges front and center, including oil pressure and voltmeter immediately adjacent to the speedo and tach!!:lol: Who knows what was behind that decision?:confused:
I guess every manufacturer does their research and includes what they feel is necessary. I can't see that having this info conveniently available at a glance would be a negative factor under any circumstances.

Best regardSS,

Elie

I can't see that having this info conveniently available at a glance would be a negative factor under any circumstances.

Best regardSS,

Elie

Very diplomatically put.

When you say "some" - you mean me?
Why does that matter....
I see a clearly marked and prominent tach, a clearly marked and prominent speedo, an oil pressure gauge front and center, water temp and fuel gauge - and a centrally located DIC which has a voltmeter function. All wrapped in a business like and attractive binnacle.
I LOVE IT!
Well I will grant you, I overlooked its oil pressure gauge. Maybe it was the illegibility due to its lack of a numeric scale. Ya, that's real ergonomic, along with the easy-to-not-read-um-where-is-it volt 'meter' :rolleyes: Nonetheless you are hereby awarded 1/2 a point :D
Now just give the Camaro the Miata's center stack, steering wheel and short throw shifter and we're in business. :metal:
If that bland-o cluster was on the Camaro, I'd be disappointed on both an aesthetic and a functional level.

So you like the WRX? No comment then? How about these. First the Porsche Boxster S... oh noz, no critical gauges :eek:
http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//pictures/EI/2007/Porsche/2007.porsche.boxster.20111653-E.jpg

How about a BMW 328i? They're pretty sporty cars, famous for track prowess...
http://us.autos1.yimg.com/img.autos.yahoo.com/izp/bmw_3seriescoupe_328i_2007_dashboard_instrumentclu ster_640x480.jpg
(Incidentally... some might complain those needles block the numbers)

To heck with all these nickle-and-dime posers. Let's move UPscale! How about a Lambo Gallardo?
http://articles.motortoday.com/testdrive/Gallardo/Gallardo_gauges.jpg
What?! No oil pressure gauge on this high-dollar exotic, with its hand-built race engine? Well at least, it clearly does sport a low voltage warning light :D

EDIT - what the heck, here's one more. Mercedes SL55 AMG, 510 HP and oh no! No Gauges!
http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//pictures/EI/2008/Mercedes-Benz/2008.mercedes-benz.sl-class.20151917-E.jpg

My '95 PA Ultra shows all analog, with actual numbers, not "H">"C" etc.
It has the large speedo and tach, front & center, then temp over oil pressure(far left) and volts over gas(far right).
And it's a luxury car...
(Can't find a good pic.)

I only hope we get all analog, accurate, real time, gages with numbers not letters.

Originally Posted by BigDarknFast :
I disagree. The value of the HUD is in showing frequently viewed parameters, such as speed and maybe radio channel. People simply do not go down the road, obsessively monitoring their bus voltage every ten seconds. That would be mighty boring, since on a modern car, voltage, oil pressure are typically either 'all OK' or 'OMG something just blew up'. In the latter case, you get a warning light and chime anyway.I think people who buy sports cars do like to be able to monitor all their vitals at a glance, especially volts in cars with a lot of electronics.
You can see when you need to clean or tighten battery terminal from watching abnormally low voltage drops at red lights etc. before you run the battery down.

One of my major complaints about my HUD in the Rendezvous. TOO SIMPLE, and in big DOS green.
It only diplays my speed, or radio channel if I change volume or something....unattractive and nearly useless...

I think people who buy sports cars do like to be able to monitor all their vitals at a glance, especially volts in cars with a lot of electronics.
Apparently not the buyers of the Porsche Boxster S, Subaru WRX STi, BMW 328i, Lamborghini Gallardo, and MB SL55 AMG, to name just a few.

Bottom line - the industry standard for 'main' instruments in sporty cars is four things. Speedo, tach, coolant temp, and fuel. JUST LIKE what we've seen 'front and center' in the leaked 2010 Camaro spy pix already out there.

I don't understand how so many people from this site have been able to sit in a mule and look at the gauges, then drive the car and see how they function. Oh wait nobody has been able to do this, they just all assume from a ****ty cell phone picture that the gauges will be hard to read. How many people bashed this car from photos at the auto shows then posted how "you have to see this car in person to appreciate it". And these were pictures from good digital cameras with great auto show lighting. I really don't think this car was built with the intention that the majority of people will be looking at the gauges while driving on a road course. I would bet my 5th gen fund that the gauges will be easy to read and prominant. Plus I think that judging by how big the info center between the gauges are that a digital read of any gauge will be able to be displayed there. How about every stops complaining for 8 monthes (because I don't see major designes like the interior changing now) and waits for the final product. It seems like the people talking about the new mustang already have their mind made up and should go frequent the corral instead of:cz28:

People who drive 110 mph on road courses don't CARE what their exact oil pressure is. They -- we -- ONLY care if it's low. Every one of those sports cars above has a nice big red idiot light (and probably an audible alarm) that will come on if things start to go wrong.

What I need most when I'm on track is a tach I can read REALLY EASILY and that oil pressure idiot light. A temp gauge is good to have too, particularly at club track-day type events in the summer. Beyond that, I don't care. On the street, that temp gauge is somewhat more important and obviously a speedo is very important. None of the rest matters much.

The only time I look at my guages on my sportbike is when I see a cop.... just sayin.

Apparently not the buyers of the Porsche Boxster S, Subaru WRX STi, BMW 328i, Lamborghini Gallardo, and MB SL55 AMG, to name just a few.
They have money to replace engines at the drop of a hat too.;)

Question IS?..what has Camaro typically done in its 40 years?

It's one part of Camaro, or F-Body's heritage that a lot of us LOVE!..

Answer...6 gages of analog monitoring.

http://members.socket.net/~g6007/camaro/CamDash.JPG
http://www.chevythunder.com/camaro_interior.jpg

If that bland-o cluster was on the Camaro, I'd be disappointed on both an aesthetic and a functional level.



Somehow Big, I find that hard to believe.



BTW, that Boxster cluster is badass. In fact all of them are better looking than the 5th gen - to me anyway.

To each their own, the boxster cluster is UGLY.

To each their own, the boxster cluster is UGLY.

Oh...UH...how do you know that? It's just a picture. Have you driven it? Have you touched it?

-
-
-

-

Just kidding you James... ;)

Go drive a Hyundai Charlie, you don't deserve a Camaro :p

Go drive a Hyundai Charlie, you don't deserve a Camaro :p

Shhh. My Camaros would be very mad if they heard you say that.

Again...the interior is not a deal breaker for me..but it is not a strong point of the cars design. When the thing was released many people voiced their displeasure with it..but GM has stayed the course.

I would have been happy with the G8 interior with some Camaro looking bits added.

I can't disagree, I like what I have seen of the Commodore interior,and thought it would have been nice in the Camaro; but I am sure I will get used to the "uniqueness" of the 5th gen.

Oh...UH...how do you know that? It's just a picture. Have you driven it? Have you touched it?


i know you were j/k .. but i'm pretty sure the comments on having sat in the car or not were in reference to exactly how hard and distracting it is to glance down at the console guages on the camaro... none of us have actually sat in them and seen exactly how inconvenient, or not, it is to have guages there.. for all we know it may be just a quick glance of the eyes, where they wouldnt be off the road any longer than if those guages were in the main cluster

as for those guage clusters posted above.. they all are pretty generic IMO.. one thing i know i DO like a lot about the Camaro is the speedo/tach cluster i think it looks pretty cool and i love that theres nothing like it being made right now.. (as i've said.. its the radio/hvac area that isnt so hot imo)

(as i've said.. its the radio/hvac area that isnt so hot imo)

That whole center stack is probably the most offensive part to me.

:confused: You guys will agrue over anything wont you?

If you're hardcore into racing wouldn't you be putting real gages in anyway? All the ones from the factory will be computer buffered and not the most acurate. At 100+ mph do you really care if your buse voltage is at 13.9 or 14.2?

How is HUD making up for a deficency? It is simply a better way of getting the vehicals information to the driver. IMO the only reason for conventional gages in moden cars is to apease those who resist change.

While the AMG panel may lack a couple of readouts, it emphatically proves the "less is more" theory.
The pure simplicity of the mono-coloring and cleaness of the panel is timeless!
The Boxter cluster reminds me of a Malibu. :cool:

I think people who buy sports cars do like to be able to monitor all their vitals at a glance, especially volts in cars with a lot of electronics.
You can see when you need to clean or tighten battery terminal from watching abnormally low voltage drops at red lights etc. before you run the battery down.
While the AMG panel may lack a couple of readouts, it emphatically proves the "less is more" theory.
The pure simplicity of the mono-coloring and cleaness of the panel is timeless!
I put your two statements together to help you see the inconsistency. Which is the holy grail then? "less is more", or "all the vitals"?
I don't understand how so many people from this site have been able to sit in a mule and look at the gauges, then drive the car and see how they function. Oh wait nobody has been able to do this, they just all assume from a ****ty cell phone picture that the gauges will be hard to read. How many people bashed this car from photos at the auto shows then posted how "you have to see this car in person to appreciate it". And these were pictures from good digital cameras with great auto show lighting. I really don't think this car was built with the intention that the majority of people will be looking at the gauges while driving on a road course. I would bet my 5th gen fund that the gauges will be easy to read and prominant. Plus I think that judging by how big the info center between the gauges are that a digital read of any gauge will be able to be displayed there. How about every stops complaining for 8 monthes (because I don't see major designes like the interior changing now) and waits for the final product. It seems like the people talking about the new mustang already have their mind made up and should go frequent the corral instead of
Agreed. I don't know what can be shown in the DIC... but it has a lot of space in there and is dot matrix. But I also agree this car, in this price bracket, it not primarily meant as a track car. It's classic affordable 2+2 muscle, with tributes to Camaro heritage. The Corvette is the track car of the Chevy stable.
People who drive 110 mph on road courses don't CARE what their exact oil pressure is. They -- we -- ONLY care if it's low. Every one of those sports cars above has a nice big red idiot light (and probably an audible alarm) that will come on if things start to go wrong.

What I need most when I'm on track is a tach I can read REALLY EASILY and that oil pressure idiot light. A temp gauge is good to have too, particularly at club track-day type events in the summer. Beyond that, I don't care. On the street, that temp gauge is somewhat more important and obviously a speedo is very important. None of the rest matters much
Yep, and well said :bow:
Question IS?..what has Camaro typically done in its 40 years?

It's one part of Camaro, or F-Body's heritage that a lot of us LOVE!..
By that yardstick then the new Camaro is just as true as ever. In fact according to that measure, I could make a case the new one is MORE true to heritage then the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th gens, due to the location of its instruments :D ...but regardless... fact is it does still retain a dedicated set of full gauges.
That whole center stack is probably the most offensive part to me.
No kidding? Well that is news to me :rolleyes:

I put your two statements together to help you see the inconsistency. Which is the holy grail then? "less is more", or "all the vitals"?

Agreed. I don't know what can be shown in the DIC... but it has a lot of space in there and is dot matrix. But I also agree this car, in this price bracket, it not primarily meant as a track car. It's classic affordable 2+2 muscle, with tributes to Camaro heritage. The Corvette is the track car of the Chevy stable.

Yep, and well said :bow:

By that yardstick then the new Camaro is just as true as ever. In fact according to that measure, I could make a case the new one is MORE true to heritage then the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th gens, due to the location of its instruments :D ...but regardless... fact is it does still retain a dedicated set of full gauges.

No kidding? Well that is news to me :rolleyes:

:rolleyes: Heaven forbid that anyone talks bad about the new Camaro. I mean what where they thinking? Don't they know that this is a Camaro site? Maybe these people should go out and buy a Mustang! Let's just go ahead and ban anybody who says anything remotely negative about the new Camaro. This way only positive things will be stated, which in turn, will start new and exciting discussions.

Give me a break! To tell someone that they don't need analog gauges to tell them their engine's vitals or that they will be okay with a HUD display is completely absurd. It's their personal preference! How can anyone say that someone else is wrong just because they stated their OPINION?

I don't like the idea of having gauges that aren't in my line of sight nor do I like alarm clock like numbers on my windshield. I don't want some idiot light to chime in and tell me something's wrong when I could have noticed an analog gauge's needle quivering or slowly dropping. I want to be able to catch any problems before the computer does. You're not going to do this with an idiot light nor are you going to catch this in your peripheral vision if the gauge is somewhere down by your right knee.

With that being said will I or won't I buy the new Camaro? I will reserve my final judgement for when I get behind the wheel of one. I will say that because of the interior layout if I do get one it will be more of a dedicated track car than it would a DD or a weekend cruiser. I dunno maybe I should just go out and buy a Mustang instead. Maybe everyone who has just the slightest negative feeling for any aspect of the car should. Then everything will be alright.:rolleyes:

:rolleyes: Heaven forbid that anyone talks bad about the new Camaro. I mean what where they thinking? Don't they know that this is a Camaro site? Maybe these people should go out and buy a Mustang! Let's just go ahead and ban anybody who says anything remotely negative about the new Camaro. This way only positive things will be stated, which in turn, will start new and exciting discussions.
Free speach is allowed here. Critics have a right to post their opinions like everyone else - including you, when you criticize mine. But you're right, this is a Camaro site, catering more to Camaro fans. If someone really doesn't like the new Camaro, and posts over and over what they don't like about it, then yes, maybe that person would be happier in a Mustang.
Give me a break! To tell someone that they don't need analog gauges to tell them their engine's vitals or that they will be okay with a HUD display is completely absurd. It's their personal preference! How can anyone say that someone else is wrong just because they stated their OPINION?

I don't like the idea of having gauges that aren't in my line of sight nor do I like alarm clock like numbers on my windshield.
I guess the USAF, USN and US Army have got it all wrong then. They don't need HUD's! Just a bunch more round dials and text displays to read through while their eyes are looking outside the cockpit, where they should be.
I don't want some idiot light to chime in and tell me something's wrong when I could have noticed an analog gauge's needle quivering or slowly dropping. I want to be able to catch any problems before the computer does.
Good luck trying to react faster than today's powertrain and body controller modules. You might have great reaction times... but you haven't a prayer in trying to be quicker than one of these.
With that being said will I or won't I buy the new Camaro? I will reserve my final judgement for when I get behind the wheel of one. I will say that because of the interior layout if I do get one it will be more of a dedicated track car than it would a DD or a weekend cruiser. I dunno maybe I should just go out and buy a Mustang instead. Maybe everyone who has just the slightest negative feeling for any aspect of the car should. Then everything will be alright.:rolleyes:
I hope you do wait until the new Camaro is out for you to test, before deciding. In the meantime, feel free to post whatever you want to say :shrug:

Free speach is allowed here. Critics have a right to post their opinions like everyone else - including you, when you criticize mine. But you're right, this is a Camaro site, catering more to Camaro fans. If someone really doesn't like the new Camaro, and posts over and over what they don't like about it, then yes, maybe that person would be happier in a Mustang.


I think we all have our right to post what ever we want on here, and I am just as big of a Camaro fan as you are. I would think, so is every one that posts here. I have an opinion and I am gonna state it just like you do and I dont try to skew things in my favor. For example when posting all those "plain" ugly insturment panels how come you didn't include the pics of the 5th gen IP for comparison? You also forgot to include the IP from a car made by the same company...Corvette. Which has a readable and good looking IP.....maybe a little "plain" for your liking. FYI I am a true Camaro enthusiast but I am gonna buy what I like, just as I have in the past.

thats not a word... its an acronym.

:D

ac·ro·nym /ˈækrənɪm/
–noun
1. a word formed from the initial letters or groups of letters of words in a set phrase or series of words, as WAC from Women's Army Corps, OPEC from Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries, or loran from long-range navigation.

:think:

I think we all have our right to post what ever we want on here, and I am just as big of a Camaro fan as you are. I would think, so is every one that posts here. I have an opinion and I am gonna state it just like you do and I dont try to skew things in my favor. For example when posting all those "plain" ugly insturment panels how come you didn't include the pics of the 5th gen IP for comparison? You also forgot to include the IP from a car made by the same company...Corvette. Which has a readable and good looking IP.....maybe a little "plain" for your liking. FYI I am a true Camaro enthusiast but I am gonna buy what I like, just as I have in the past.
It would not be fair to post the cobbled, blurry spy pix of the 5gen IP in the same context as professionally shot pix of production interiors on those other cars.

As for the Corvette - sure it has a lot of guages. But that's not the norm, as I've shown already. Plus it does have a HUD too :D

It would not be fair to post the cobbled, blurry spy pix of the 5gen IP in the same context as professionally shot pix of production interiors on those other cars.



ok.....

im going to hold off giving a decision until i sit in a production model,if i dont like it , ill just buy a vette . or a Trailblazer SS........

Damn, that makes you go WTF? Corvette or Trailblazer

I cant think of two vehicles that would be more polar in choice than those two?

Originally Posted by BigDarknFast:
I put your two statements together to help you see the inconsistency. Which is the holy grail then? "less is more", or "all the vitals"?
I guess I should've clarified, it was clear in my head.;)
Posted by Me:
......."The pure simplicity of the mono-coloring and cleaness of the panel is timeless!".......
I was speaking from a design perspective, not function, or content.
The AMG was very conservavitve, smooth radiuses, crisp clean edges and lines, pleasing proportioning, precise clear digital readouts, font etc..
Originally Posted by BigDarknFast
By that yardstick then the new Camaro is just as true as ever. In fact according to that measure, I could make a case the new one is MORE true to heritage then the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th gens, due to the location of its instruments ...but regardless... fact is it does still retain a dedicated set of full gauges.Another misscommunication.
Howabout...(insert)..."for most of its 40 years"....b/c the 1st gen vitals were optional. Once knee deep in racing, Camaro began to look the part.

Originally Posted by george.jetson
People who drive 110 mph on road courses don't CARE what their exact oil pressure is. They -- we -- ONLY care if it's low. Every one of those sports cars above has a nice big red idiot light (and probably an audible alarm) that will come on if things start to go wrong.

What I need most when I'm on track is a tach I can read REALLY EASILY and that oil pressure idiot light. A temp gauge is good to have too, particularly at club track-day type events in the summer. Beyond that, I don't care. On the street, that temp gauge is somewhat more important and obviously a speedo is very important. None of the rest matters muchI have to disagree, I have shut down more than one run when oil pressure was below normal, but not low enough to trigger an idiot light.
By then it's usually too low and too late.:cry:

Howabout...(insert)..."for most of its 40 years"....b/c the 1st gen vitals were optional. Once knee deep in racing, Camaro began to look the part.
Ya... who were these yahoos anyway...
http://www.camaro.nu/web_images/gen1/image006.jpg

http://www.pozziracing.com/Media/car_life_cover

Yep, that's what I mean, once they established 1st gen's as serious competition, they put all kinds of goodies in the right places.

My dad ordered his '68 SS 396/325hp, Hurst shifted, Muncie 4spd, in Vette Bronze with a black bumble stripe. :cool:
I don't have pics on file, but it was like this one:

http://www.chevconnection.com/images/68cambronze01.gif

Six inches of air under the tires when he dropped the clutch, and more daylight just cracking under the tires on the 1/2 shift, after adding a cam, headers and traction.

He added gages to keep tabs on th oil, temp and volts. I think GM seeing how popular all the gages were with the street crowd, sweetened the pot, adding them to the IP's.;)

I'd love to find and buy his car back, but I haven't got a clue as to how to find it...I don't have anything left with a VIN on it.

in reference to those gauge clusters posted earlier, every single one of them, if not analog has a digital readout for the rest of the vitals, and they are all clear, easy to see and styled accordingly. pretty much every interior made owns the concepts and this pre production interior layout, center stack makes me want to vommit, dash is so large and "fat" in that area, the car is themed with angular styling but the interior is all bout curve flows and radius's and round things, doesnt even match. and the gauges by the knee failed in 69, but somehow they are back. and if you look at every car made to date, every one has a super clear instrument panel with nice crisp needles and defined numbers/markings. and to all those people who say were over reacting and its not that important the car looks good etc. well it is important, GM has never grasped the fact that the person buying the car lives in the interior, and its the most intimate part and you see it the most. so IMO like all this, the interior is the MOST important factor of the car by far. i know its not done, you dont have to tell me that, but unless it takes on some major changes. the alarming amount of even the hardcore enthusiasts (us) that dont like one major thing or another, that scares me. most regular people wont either, its one thing to say you like the interior because its out there and innovative etc etc. but its another to live with it in a practical environment, most people will change their tune if they have to stare at those square cubes segregated in the dash all day. i for one am basing my buying on the interior, some/most wont i guess. but for me i like the look of the car, and i know the power will be there, but if the interior doesnt match my standards for even the most basic of cars out there, then "I" wont buy one. dont flame this is my opinion, you all are entitled to your own. but i predict if there isnt alot of changes from what we've had a taste of, i fear there wont be many buyers of this car other then the hard core that dont care whats there, they will conform to like it.

another point i should make is, while the auto industry has evolved, so has the consumer, these days they expect more from their auto. the days are gone of the 60's, 70's 80's even 90's where substandard build and layout were more widely accepted and endured. hell i LOVE the camaro, and i accept what they WERE, but the days are done for me to own a brand new car and live in the past expectancies of design and ergonomics of past camaros. im sure alot of people feel that way weather they like the design or not. time to get with the times and have a kick arse interior. even the mustang sucks, but all the new cars from other then north america seem to have it. they can be retro too, but they dont live on that fact as the primary design purpose. they get that, why cant we? i would have been happy with a holden style interior with camaro cues. its 2009 when this things out, not 1969....heres a flipped to get an idea.

http://zeusville.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/holden-commodore-ss-03-interior.jpg

...so IMO like all this, the interior is the MOST important factor of the car by far....
That's nuts. More important than road performance... quality... safety... and pricing? Baloney.
another point i should make is, while the auto industry has evolved, so has the consumer, these days they expect more from their auto. the days are gone of the 60's, 70's 80's even 90's where substandard build and layout were more widely accepted and endured. hell i LOVE the camaro, and i accept what they WERE, but the days are done for me to own a brand new car and live in the past expectancies of design and ergonomics of past camaros. ...time to get with the times and have a kick arse interior. even the mustang sucks, but all the new cars from other then north america seem to have it. they can be retro too, but they dont live on that fact as the primary design purpose. they get that, why cant we? i would have been happy with a holden style interior with camaro cues. its 2009 when this things out, not 1969....heres a flipped to get an idea.
From what I've seen and read here (for example the DIC and rumored HUD), I believe the Camaro will exceed people's expectations in interior design. A person cannot really discern much about the acceptability of an interior, until one tries to actually operate it. It appears the Camaro interior has radically evolved during its hiatus, to be modern and very functional, but still retain critically important design cues.

It is his opinion - just because it may not be yours or mine doesn't make it "baloney". It just makes it different.

My most important criterion are performance, cost, and exterior looks. But that's just me.

I agree that a person cannot really discern much about the acceptibility of an interior until one tries to actually operate it. But I'm pretty sure that works both ways, and judging by the posts you've made, I'd say you've accepted it - ad nauseum - without actually operating it. No big deal to me....but knocking people for NOT accepting it based on the same amount of info as you have is rather hypocritical.

IMHO.

Bob

It is his opinion - just because it may not be yours or mine doesn't make it "baloney". It just makes it different.

My most important criterion are performance, cost, and exterior looks. But that's just me.

I agree that a person cannot really discern much about the acceptibility of an interior until one tries to actually operate it. But I'm pretty sure that works both ways, and judging by the posts you've made, I'd say you've accepted it - ad nauseum - without actually operating it. No big deal to me....but knocking people for NOT accepting it based on the same amount of info as you have is rather hypocritical.

IMHO.

Bob
Fine... here for the politically correct crowd, is the more precise version.

"That's preposterous, and far out of line with the vast majority of potential buyers for this car. So interior styling is more important than road performance... quality... safety... and pricing? Such an opinion, while just as legitimate as anyone elses, is so far out of the norm for most buyers of value performance coupes, it's clear that such a position is balonious to the bulk of the buying public; and due to that, it is very difficult to believe this is truly your position on the matter."

Better now? :D

As for accepting it - I've said repeatedly here I will reserve final judgment until I can drive one. (Maybe some others here should make the same pledge?) There will no doubt be things I don't like about it. But it sure appears that overall, the new Camaro's combination of likely features, quality, performance and yes style, will suit me fine :cool:

you make it sound like road performance... quality... safety... and pricing in your words, have anything to do with a good quality interior with good design? you will be quite surprised at how many look at the quality of where the driver lives. failed design 69 guages and console torque meters tells me i cant take it seriously.