tooling at Oshawa yes or no !!!!!!!

anybody no about how the tooling process is coming along in
Oshawa, i cant believe nobody no whats going on. weres scott
he must have some tidbits for us. hes gotto no more than
we do. the forum is the same old stuff over and over....
Go Dodge .. ha ha ha

There was a statement on our local radio that GM had cancelled production of all rear drives in Oshawa a few days ago due to new fuel economy mandates and lack of demand.

Havn't heard anything since that statement.

John

That didn't include Camaro though.

That didn't include Camaro though.

Actually the statement was rear drive platform slated for 2009 2010 production, not sure but it's all open to speculation the camaro and impala where sharing the same platform and flex assembly line so no impala no camaro.

John

Actually the statement was rear drive platform slated for 2009 2010 production, not sure but it's all open to speculation the camaro and impala where sharing the same platform and flex assembly line so no impala no camaro.

John

Please! Camaro is coming. It has not been killed off. Do not even begin to start this rumor.:mad:

heres a link to the aricle:

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080124/gm_oshawa_080124/20080124?hub=TopStories&s_name=

GM committed to Oshawa plant, CAW president says
Updated Thu. Jan. 24 2008 10:24 AM ET

toronto.ctv.ca

Canadian Auto Workers president Buzz Hargrove says he is concerned about a report that General Motors has scrapped plans to build some rear-wheel-drive cars at its giant plant in Oshawa, Ont.

Such a move could threaten thousands of jobs and the long-term future of the largest vehicle assembly plant in Canada, industry sources told The Globe and Mail.

The sources said the automaker has decided to axe production of the rear-wheel-drive version of the Chevrolet Impala, which was scheduled to represent half the output of a leading-edge flexible assembly plant now under construction in Oshawa.

Production of rear-wheel-drive Cadillac and Buick sedans originally slated for Oshawa will now be shifted instead to Lansing, Mich., the sources added.

Hargrove says he hasn't yet received any official confirmation of any revised plan.

"If General Motors has made a decision not to build rear-wheel-drive vehicles in Oshawa, they haven't informed us," Hargrove told CTV.ca on Thursday.

"Would we would be surprised if the move was made now? No, given the new (fuel economy) law in the United States."

Hargrove says the new U.S. legislation requires automakers to build vehicles that reach an average of 35 miles per gallon (6.7 litres per 100 kilometres) by 2020.

He added details of the proposed Cadillac and Buick productions had not yet been finalized.

While Hargrove said he was concerned about the report, he remains optimistic that new work will retain jobs.

"There's an obligation on the part of General Motors to put new product in there," he said. "What that will be, we don't know."

Hargrove said GM has injected $2.5 billion into the Oshawa plant for new production. The Ontario government has given $235 million for the cause, while the federal government under Paul Martin handed over $200 million when the Beacon project was announced in 2005.

GM has confirmed that production of a new rear-wheel-drive Chevrolet Camaro muscle car will begin in Oshawa this year.

Thursday's report comes as GM is preparing for contract talks with the Canadian Auto Workers union this summer.

There was a statement on our local radio that GM had cancelled production of all rear drives in Oshawa a few days ago due to new fuel economy mandates and lack of demand.

Havn't heard anything since that statement.

John
The local radio station's reporter needs to go back and finish his or her course in journalism. ALL rear wheel drive cars?!?... I don't think so! The new CAFE requirements may be throwing a monkey wrench into some plans - but definitely not the plans for the Camaro.
Which radio station was that, BTW? A Kitchener/Guelph/Hamilton station, CHAY, or a Toronto station? I'd love to give them a call and speak to the news director there...

Best regardSS,

Elie

Heard it on 680 news, don't understand why GM is so FOS on the camaro subject first it's 08 than 09 now 2010 by the time they build it there really will be absolutely no market for it other than us diehards.

John

Heard it on 680 news, don't understand why GM is so FOS on the camaro subject first it's 08 than 09 now 2010 by the time they build it there really will be absolutely no market for it other than us diehards.

I must have missed GM saying the car would be an '08.

It has always been late 2008 production start as a 2010 model. Nothing has changed.

EDIT: Meant to say late 2008/early 2009.

There was a statement on our local radio that GM had cancelled production of all rear drives in Oshawa a few days ago due to new fuel economy mandates and lack of demand.

Havn't heard anything since that statement.

John

Heard it on 680 news, don't understand why GM is so FOS on the camaro subject first it's 08 than 09 now 2010 by the time they build it there really will be absolutely no market for it other than us diehards.

John

Thank you. I will try and make that call tomorrow to clarify...

Cheers,

Elie

I must have missed GM saying the car would be an '08.

It has always been late 2009 production start as a 2010 model. Nothing has changed.

The title of this forum was originally 2008 chevrolet camaro now its 2010 chevrolet camaro, the original rumours of production resuming started in 2006.

I have been following this a long time and listening to all my corvette owning friends talking about the new camaro thats coming to devalue my current car's every year.

Chrysler has filled all the vacant lots around here with thousands of V8 powered cars they cannot sell so they don't ship them and the local ford dealers can't even give mustangs away, so why is it so difficult to believe GM will build a car with no market other than a few loyal 30 to 40 year old's.

John

The thread starter is obviously having message board comprehension issues. ZRATER, you already posted a thread calling out Scott in your own illiterate way. And he answered. Why don't you continue your discourse in that thread rather than cluttering up the board with multiple threads??

.... so why is it so difficult to believe GM will build a car with no market other than a few loyal 30 to 40 year old's.

Hey! I'm one of the 20's somethings that will be buying the car that I couldn't afford because the choice was to buy a car or college. Being an accountant, the pratical side of the brain (and thanks to my father) won for the time being...

I really look forward to this car hit the roads again wit me behind the wheel! I was pumped last year after seeing the Silver Coupe at the Philly Auto Show and I'll get to see the vert on saturday.

The title of this forum was originally 2008 chevrolet camaro now its 2010 chevrolet camaro, the original rumours of production resuming started in 2006.

true.. but thats not GM making any changes.. back in August 2006 when GM announced they were gonna make the camaro, they said production starts 4th quarter 2008, goes on sale 1st quarter 2009.. that hasnt changed..
to this point i don't think GM has said what the model year is going to be.. and that's been all speculation by people up until recently when its pretty much been confirmed it'll be a 2010, though not officially confirmed

so yeah, some people not working for GM assumed it would be 2008, then assumed it would be 2009, then got good info that it would be a 2010.. all the while, actual production timeline did not change

heh i dont mean to start rumors.. but someone posted this as a comment to an autoblog article.. i think it's BS cause i havent heard anything remotely close on these boards...

I spent some time with a lower-level GM exec this past summer and the reason, according to him, the Camaro is past due for everything is because the prototypes are pieces of sh*t. He says a new manufacturing process is being introduced for the new Camaro and the results are not good. He fears GM may have another mistake on it's hands if the process isn't tightened up A LOT between now and actual production. Crazy that GM is gambling both process and product, but these are hard times in the auto industry and you have to hope GM is learning from it's previous decades worth of mistakes.

Change-over in the Oshawa plant HAS begun as far as I've heard ;). It may not be DONE, or even moving as quickly as we might "hope", but the plans for the Camaro aren't going anywhere, nor is the Oshawa plant.

That news report the other day was a knee-jerk reaction. Just because we all hoped (assumed) that GM was gonna resurrect the RWD Impala, and build it on the Camaro platform, doesn't mean they were OFFICIALLY going to. So when they announced that they were scrapping plans for a "potential" model (RWD Impala) didn't "technically" mean anything, other than our hopes/assumptions were wrong ;).

Heard it on 680 news, don't understand why GM is so FOS on the camaro subject first it's 08 than 09 now 2010 by the time they build it there really will be absolutely no market for it other than us diehards.

John

Post ANY article in which GM said that Camaro would be out as a 2008 or 2009 model, let alone a 2006.

As far as GM being FOS, I think you need to take time and read things before spouting off. You have obviously confused internet rumors with actual news... either from GM of Fbodfather.

Chill with the flamatory statements, please.

wow..the comment about devauluation of the corvette was funny..same thing is going on concerning the new shelby's ford is building (2009 and beyond)...if by chance..which i believe is less then 1% and this would take an alien invasion..the camaro will be built...must be a proud 1974 amc pacer owner who started this thread

Chrysler has filled all the vacant lots around here with thousands of V8 powered cars they cannot sell so they don't ship them and the local ford dealers can't even give mustangs away, so why is it so difficult to believe GM will build a car with no market other than a few loyal 30 to 40 year old's.

John

How many Mustangs do you expect to fly off the lot in the depth of winter in Ontario? Zero comes to mind. I believe 40 year olds will be a huge market for the new Camaro. 20 years olds all seem to love it but have no money. 30 year olds are getting married, buying houses and having babies.

How many Mustangs do you expect to fly off the lot in the depth of winter in Ontario? Zero comes to mind. I believe 40 year olds will be a huge market for the new Camaro. 20 years olds all seem to love it but have no money. 30 year olds are getting married, buying houses and having babies.

you didnt mention teens im gonna be 17 when it comes out i already have my deposit down and ready to buy it

I'm gonna +1 Hylton and guionM. John, you say that there isn't a market except for "you enthusiasts," you "diehard" Camaro fans. I've only owned one Camaro and it happened to be a V6, do you consider me an enthusiast? a diehard? Because, I do. I'm 21 and I still have a year and a half of college left, but I'll be getting the Camaro when it comes out. I'll be purchasing it on my own, to boot, possibly with a loan, but I'm still getting one (a V8, no less). But here's my real point, and Scott has said something to this effect before, you seem to have no faith, not to be cliche, that the Camaro is going to succeed. Why is Chevy most likely going to offer a V6 of some sort? To increase their target market. This car is not going to just appeal to you few "loyal" 30 to 40 year olds. There are plenty of people...men, women, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60+ year olds who are going to want this car, whether it be for looks, performance, or perhaps just a cool looking car that gets good gas mileage. Who knows, but you are not going to be the only age demographic that is dying to get this new Camaro.

I know of 5 cars that will be spoken for in my neck of the woods. They buyers are all 40 somethings and 3 of them are NOT enthusiasts. They just love what they see so far. These are guaranteed sales, not dream weavers.

Ahhhhh Newbies.
A little nuggie and back into the lounge they go.
GM actually said that Camaro was gunna come out in 2047 with twin hyrogen turbines, but thanks to demand and fans, they moved it foward production to late 2008 early 2009!! Man, GM is awesome! This is why I love them!

Big Al (can I call you that?), was I off base at all? I'm not trying to be smart, I'm trying to express my opinion respectfully. I've taken a ton of posts into consideration and I've interpreted some things. I don't even begin to assume that I know anything final about the production version of the new Camaro. I'm interested in all of the legitimate information that I can get and since you obviously know that I'm new to posting on this board, and you most likely have more ties to people in this particular community, maybe you could let me know if anything I said was...misinformed:think:

Big Al (can I call you that?), was I off base at all? I'm not trying to be smart, I'm trying to express my opinion respectfully. I've taken a ton of posts into consideration and I've interpreted some things. I don't even begin to assume that I know anything final about the production version of the new Camaro. I'm interested in all of the legitimate information that I can get and since you obviously know that I'm new to posting on this board, and you most likely have more ties to people in this particular community, maybe you could let me know if anything I said was...misinformed:think:

Don't let anyone get you riled up, Omega. (He might have been referring to someone else anyway). I agree with both posts you made :cool:

Don't let anyone get you riled up, Omega. (He might have been referring to someone else anyway). I agree with both posts you made :cool:

Thanks, I appreciate what you said! :)

I believe 40 year olds will be a huge market for the new Camaro..

Hey now I`m not 40 yet....38 years young...Lol..And I`m married and having babies like the 30 somethings are supposedto do. I guess I fit both categories...:D

wow..the comment about devauluation of the corvette was funny..same thing is going on concerning the new shelby's ford is building (2009 and beyond)...if by chance..which i believe is less then 1% and this would take an alien invasion..the camaro will be built...must be a proud 1974 amc pacer owner who started this thread


I wasn't talking about devaluation of corvettes, I am the proud owner of 2 f bodys one of them a 35th ann 345hp ss that has been in a bubble since 2003 the other a true 10 second daily driver. So the devaluation comment was directed at my F bodys that my corvette friend's love to hate and hate losing to even more.

Everyone is so sensitive when it come to the future 5th gen, if its built great I'll buy one. Reality is if fuel hits 1.50$ litre ( 6.00$ gallon) there will be no market for this car, sorry for the opinion but I 'm not imagining the tons of honda's and toyota's on the road.

So relax guys and don't take this so seriously if it's built you buy it, if it isn't you don't. It's not like it's our decision to build it.

Cheers

John

well John, --- I have a question:

What was the year we built the most Camaros?

(no peeking)



.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.1979 --

Now - I can't speak to Canada's economy -- but I can tell you this about the United States:

Interest rates were double digit.

Unemployment was at its highest in years.

Gas was at an all-time high......in fact, if you index it to today - we're in a similar situation.

We were in a full-fledged recession with double-digit inflation.

Camaro was NINE years into a lifecycle -- and performance was luke warm at best.........


.....................and we sold over 282,000 Camaros.............and that does not include Firebirds.

Now -- yes, this is a different era -- but I use this to illustrate that the "Sport" market does not react to market pressures like most other automotive segments.

No one has a perfect crystal ball -- but I can tell you that watching crowds react to the Camaro -- that I'm confident we'll do well for some time with this car.

If I'm wrong -- you can make me eat my words, 'Kay?

Hey now I`m not 40 yet....38 years young...Lol..And I`m married and having babies like the 30 somethings are supposedto do. I guess I fit both categories...:D

Perfect timing for you actually. By the time the bad boy version comes out, you'll be in your 40's. :D

1979 ....Camaro was NINE years into a lifecycle -- and performance was luke warm at best.........



2 words Scott - boat anchor......:D

well John, --- I have a question:

What was the year we built the most Camaros?

(no peeking)






.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.1979 --

Now - I can't speak to Canada's economy -- but I can tell you this about the United States:

Interest rates were double digit.

Unemployment was at its highest in years.

Gas was at an all-time high......in fact, if you index it to today - we're in a similar situation.

We were in a full-fledged recession with double-digit inflation.

Camaro was NINE years into a lifecycle -- and performance was luke warm at best.........


.....................and we sold over 282,000 Camaros.............and that does not include Firebirds.

Now -- yes, this is a different era -- but I use this to illustrate that the "Sport" market does not react to market pressures like most other automotive segments.

No one has a perfect crystal ball -- but I can tell you that watching crowds react to the Camaro -- that I'm confident we'll do well for some time with this car.

If I'm wrong -- you can make me eat my words, 'Kay?

I guess I'll call my buddy Chad at Dean Myers Chev Olds and tell him to put my name on a red 2010 ss my 2002 is lonely and tired of his buick Gn roomate.

If fbodfather says it, so it is.
Looking forward to 2010 now.

John

I guess I'll call my buddy Chad at Dean Myers Chev Olds and tell him to put my name on a red 2010 ss my 2002 is lonely and tired of his buick Gn roomate.

If fbodfather says it, so it is.
Looking forward to 2010 now.

John
That's where I got my SS... I had to borrow a screwdriver from one of the sales people there to put on my own freakin' licence plate. Customer service was not one the dealership's stronger points back in '98.
Needless to say, after my absurd delivery experience there, I never set foot back in that place, nor will I ever again.
The guy tried to send me out the door (after I had to put on my own plate!), without the T-roof sunshades, CD magazine for the 12 disc changer, and my SLP SS floor mats and key fobs.
When I got up from the table, refusing to sign off on the deal as a result and said to the guy, "You are misrepresenting this car.", his attitude changed for some reason... he grabbed the sunshades and CD magazine from another car in the showroom and wrote on the bill of sale that he'd order the mats and fobs from SLP... which he did.
Man - it was like pulling teeth with those guys!

Best regardSS,

Elie

Originally Posted by Hylton:
2 words Scott - boat anchor......:D
:lol:
Ahhhh...but the saving graces were:.......interchangability and a huge performance aftermarket.

Know one really cared what the factory numbers were.
Only that it came with a smallblock, which they knew how to mod blindfolded.:cool:
And the body kit/stripe kits were unique and racy.

My Cousin Rich bought one, and promptly replaced the smog junk with deep breathing goodies....that guy laid down more black strips than the county road workers!:lol:

Looking forward to 2010 now.

John

you wont have to wait that long

Camaro will go on sale somewhere between 11-14 months from NOW

[QUOTE=sselie;5147383]That's where I got my SS... I had to borrow a screwdriver from one of the sales people there to put on my own freakin' licence plate. Customer service was not one the dealership's stronger points back in '98.
Needless to say, after my absurd delivery experience there, I never set foot back in that place, nor will I ever again.
The guy tried to send me out the door (after I had to put on my own plate!), without the T-roof sunshades, CD magazine for the 12 disc changer, and my SLP SS floor mats and key fobs.
When I got up from the table, refusing to sign off on the deal as a result and said to the guy, "You are misrepresenting this car.", his attitude changed for some reason... he grabbed the sunshades and CD magazine from another car in the showroom and wrote on the bill of sale that he'd order the mats and fobs from SLP... which he did.
Man - it was like pulling teeth with those guys!



I bought my 02 there, Chad is a friend and Dean Myers grandson but your right if it wasn't for Chad being there I wounldn't have dealt with them either.

When I picked up my car I didn't even let them PDI the car.Chad called me when the transport truck arrived. They just rolled it off the trailer and I signed all the documents peeled protective wrap off car checked oil levels and took it home:D.

John

[quote=sselie;5147383]That's where I got my SS... I had to borrow a screwdriver from one of the sales people there to put on my own freakin' licence plate. Customer service was not one the dealership's stronger points back in '98.
Needless to say, after my absurd delivery experience there, I never set foot back in that place, nor will I ever again.
The guy tried to send me out the door (after I had to put on my own plate!), without the T-roof sunshades, CD magazine for the 12 disc changer, and my SLP SS floor mats and key fobs.
When I got up from the table, refusing to sign off on the deal as a result and said to the guy, "You are misrepresenting this car.", his attitude changed for some reason... he grabbed the sunshades and CD magazine from another car in the showroom and wrote on the bill of sale that he'd order the mats and fobs from SLP... which he did.
Man - it was like pulling teeth with those guys!



I bought my 02 there, Chad is a friend and Dean Myers grandson but your right if it wasn't for Chad being there I wounldn't have dealt with them either.

When I picked up my car I didn't even let them PDI the car.Chad called me when the transport truck arrived. They just rolled it off the trailer and I signed all the documents peeled protective wrap off car checked oil levels and took it home:D.

John

Ask your buddy Chad if he went to Metro Prep and grandpa gave him a silver SS to drive in '98... and whether he had the black mirrors painted silver. If the answer is yes, he may know the whereabouts of those floormats, sunshades and CD magazine!

.1979 --


I wonder how much a lack of competition played into it. It seems like there is so much more variety out there right now. Also, in those days people in America were much more likely to buy an American car.

2 words Scott - boat anchor......:D

:lol:
Ahhhh...but the saving graces were:.......interchangability and a huge performance aftermarket.

Know one really cared what the factory numbers were.
Only that it came with a smallblock, which they knew how to mod blindfolded.:cool:
And the body kit/stripe kits were unique and racy.

My Cousin Rich bought one, and promptly replaced the smog junk with deep breathing goodies....that guy laid down more black strips than the county road workers!:lol:


You're absolutely right about that. In my teen years, a buddy and myself both had 1981 Z/28's. All you needed to do to make the car go was a cam change, headers, dual exhaust and a better rear gear. My car was all stock except for the cam and exhaust and I was beating most 85-88 Mustangs when they first came out.

as some know my daughter wants the new camaro..she will not be getting a big honking v8 no matter what incentives gm throws at me...i would even prefer a small economical 4 cyclinder above the v6 (it is my daughter)...personally the car looks great (daughter says sexy) and i could care less whats under the hood...now if it was my car...i would want the biggest kick butt motor i could get.something just short of a f15 engine with no after-burner option

Ill never understand the Camaro sales numbers!! 1984 they also sold over or near 1/4 million Camaro's!! Thats before they IROC years from 85-90 as well as the introduction of TPI? In 85, I think sales were down by a lot, even with all the new stuff?

I wonder how much a lack of competition played into it. It seems like there is so much more variety out there right now. Also, in those days people in America were much more likely to buy an American car.

There was very little competition much after February 1973. By that time, both Challenger and Cuda production for '74MY stopped. The shrunken '74 Mustang came out that previous September. The AMC Javelin was about to grind to a halt.

Also, the point Scott made....VERY clearly.... was that the best sales of Camaro did NOT happen during the so-called muscle car era, or the pre-emissions era, or even in economic good times. You can't even say the lack of competition created this sales record (it happened 6 years after it's direct competition dissappeared). It happened when gas was at perhaps it's highest peak (adjusted for inflation), we had double digit inflation, we had high unemployment, we had high intrest rates, and the nation was back in a recession.

Keep in mind that the Trans Am was also enjoying record popularity and if memory serves correct, it was either in '78 or '79 that Corvette was breaking records as well.

How is that possible?

1. People who tend to buy cars in adverse economic conditions tend to buy expressive cars (buyers who purchase practical cars tend to be conservative with their money in tougher economic conditions)

2. The Camaro in 1979 sold a record number of 6 cylinder models (it was still considered essentially an economy car at the time), and alot of overflow buyers opted into small V8s.

There was very little competition much after February 1973. By that time, both Challenger and Cuda production for '74MY stopped. The shrunken '74 Mustang came out that previous September. The AMC Javelin was about to grind to a halt.

Also, the point Scott made....VERY clearly.... was that the best sales of Camaro did NOT happen during the so-called muscle car era, or the pre-emissions era, or even in economic good times. You can't even say the lack of competition created this sales record (it happened 6 years after it's direct competition dissappeared). It happened when gas was at perhaps it's highest peak (adjusted for inflation), we had double digit inflation, we had high unemployment, we had high intrest rates, and the nation was back in a recession.

Keep in mind that the Trans Am was also enjoying record popularity and if memory serves correct, it was either in '78 or '79 that Corvette was breaking records as well.

How is that possible?

1. People who tend to buy cars in adverse economic conditions tend to buy expressive cars (buyers who purchase practical cars tend to be conservative with their money in tougher economic conditions)

2. The Camaro in 1979 sold a record number of 6 cylinder models (it was still considered essentially an economy car at the time), and alot of overflow buyers opted into small V8s.

Thanks, Guy -- for the backup!!

You said something about record numbers of 6 cylinders in 1979 -- so just for grins -- I went and looked at the numbers.

Guess Whot???

138,197 were built with the 305 (145hp)

122,461 were built with the 350 (170hp)

.......for a total of 260,658 of 'em with a V8!

Total production was -- 282,571 -- meaning that only 21,913 were built with an inline 250 cu in 6 cylinder!!!

(this was the last year for an in-line 6 by the way.....)


Yup -- different times -- but I wholeheartedly agree with your statement of: "...........People who tend to buy cars in adverse economic conditions tend to buy expressive cars (buyers who purchase practical cars tend to be conservative with their money in tougher economic conditions)......."

...Yup -- different times -- but I wholeheartedly agree with your statement of: "...........People who tend to buy cars in adverse economic conditions tend to buy expressive cars (buyers who purchase practical cars tend to be conservative with their money in tougher economic conditions)......."
Agreed. And there is another factor, that I think bodes well for the new Camaro - that is the current swing by the buying public away from fullsize SUV's and pickups, into cars. A new V6 Camaro will be a popular choice for those who want something expressive, but who also want a little bit better MPG than a truck.

well John, --- I have a question:

What was the year we built the most Camaros?

(no peeking)



.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.1979 --

Now - I can't speak to Canada's economy -- but I can tell you this about the United States:

Interest rates were double digit.

Unemployment was at its highest in years.

Gas was at an all-time high......in fact, if you index it to today - we're in a similar situation.

We were in a full-fledged recession with double-digit inflation.

Camaro was NINE years into a lifecycle -- and performance was luke warm at best.........


.....................and we sold over 282,000 Camaros.............and that does not include Firebirds.

Now -- yes, this is a different era -- but I use this to illustrate that the "Sport" market does not react to market pressures like most other automotive segments.

No one has a perfect crystal ball -- but I can tell you that watching crowds react to the Camaro -- that I'm confident we'll do well for some time with this car.

If I'm wrong -- you can make me eat my words, 'Kay?

And Thanks Scott for reminding us all what a lousy president Jimmy Carter was. :D

Speaking of competition, dont forget 79 was also the first year for the very affordable and light fox Mustang.

For the time you could buy a V6 coupe and shoehorn in some old Ford big block and have a helluva punch.

Speaking of competition, dont forget 79 was also the first year for the very affordable and light fox Mustang.

For the time you could buy a V6 coupe and shoehorn in some old Ford big block and have a helluva punch.

Was that also the first year they put 4 bangers in them? :mad:

you wont have to wait that long

Camaro will go on sale somewhere between 11-14 months from NOWNot the top dog Camaro. :D


1. People who tend to buy cars in adverse economic conditions tend to buy expressive cars (buyers who purchase practical cars tend to be conservative with their money in tougher economic conditions)

2. The Camaro in 1979 sold a record number of 6 cylinder models (it was still considered essentially an economy car at the time), and alot of overflow buyers opted into small V8s.

You said something about record numbers of 6 cylinders in 1979 -- so just for grins -- I went and looked at the numbers.

Guess Whot???

138,197 were built with the 305 (145hp)

122,461 were built with the 350 (170hp)

.......for a total of 260,658 of 'em with a V8!

Total production was -- 282,571 -- meaning that only 21,913 were built with an inline 250 cu in 6 cylinder!!!

(this was the last year for an in-line 6 by the way.....)


Yup -- different times -- but I wholeheartedly agree with your statement of: "...........People who tend to buy cars in adverse economic conditions tend to buy expressive cars (buyers who purchase practical cars tend to be conservative with their money in tougher economic conditions)......."

I saw something the other night on the local news. They made a similar statement that although car sales in general were down for the Bay Area, luxury car sales were in fact up. So I can see a similar effect happening a year from now.

Incidentally a few weeks back I was looking at production numbers in the Camaro White Book. 6 cylinder Camaros did not out sell V8s until the introduction of the 4th gen... and then in the final year (2002) V8s outsold V6s by a large margin. If we're in an economic downturn or recession, the V6 Camaro isn't going to be as important as the V8 models. I hope the beancounters at GM understand this. Otherwise I can see the 2010 V6 Camaros not selling well, and the powers-that-be using it as excuse to cancel the top dog Camaro. :(

Was that also the first year they put 4 bangers in them? :mad:Nah... my grandma had a 77 Mustang II with a 4-banger. :D

Nah... my grandma had a 77 Mustang II with a 4-banger. :D

Mustang II is not a Mustang.. or at least stang owners would have you believe...

Chevy answered the Mustang II with the "Lil Camaro", (local nickname), Monza Spyder 305ci V8!...:cool:

http://monza.homestead.com/files/whitered80spyder.jpg


(They also came with 4 bangers...)
My cousin's 1980 white one with a black & blue spider on it, and duck tail spoiler, was a bear to change spark plugs, we had to pull both front tires and go through the wheel wells!:p

Mustang II
http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-1970-1979/1977-Ford-Mustang-Cobra-II.jpg

Damn that Mustang II AND the Monza were some FUGLY cars. And that angle really shows that the Mustang was really nothing more than a Pinto with stripes.

Damn that Mustang II AND the Monza were some FUGLY cars. And that angle really shows that the Mustang was really nothing more than a Pinto with stripes.

Proudpony is the expert on this, and i don't have the time to do a complete search on this, but the Mustang II is not a Pinto the way the 3rd gen Camaro wasn't a Monza. It was a jump off point, but it was very different.

As for the Chevy Monza, I am a HUGE fan of the Chevrolet Monza.... and you'd be surprized at how many fans the car has here and who those fans are.

Sure, today those cars may look ugly, but Mustang the Mustang II sold in the ungodly number in excess of 400,000 cars the 1st year, and the Chevrolet Monza actually replaced the Camaro in competition and raked up an impressive record in competition.

It's easy to stand here 30 years after the fact and slam the cars. The Monza is remembered only for the condition most were in in the late 80s-early 90s (due to 70's era rustproofing... or rather lack thereof) and hard core Mustang fans don't even look at the Mustang II as a Mustang.

As for the Chevy Monza, I am a HUGE fan of the Chevrolet Monza.... and you'd be surprized at how many fans the car has here and who those fans are.



I've got your back Guy. I'm one too!