The Real Camaro experience?

I checked out this site this morning over breakfast because I was bored and didn't expect any news over the weekend. I was thrilled to see the new interior pictures that leaked out, although I feel bad for the Camaro team, I was glad to see the interior looking better than in previous pictures. Then I read the one, 7 page thread ripping the interior to shreds.... :(

Over the course of the day I've been back on from time to time when I've had a chance, and I see there are now multiple threads and as much heated and hostile discussion about the interior than ever - to the point where people are starting new threads just to reinforce their own points.

And all I can say is that it's a sad, sad day for Camaro fans, and for CamaroZ28.com when after a long hiatus we're seeing GM put serious and costly effort into building a new Camaro (despite CAFE, despite Oshawa resourcing) instead of just raiding the parts bin and producing a generic car, and the best Camaro site on the web is slammed with complaints of every type and hostility that I've never seen on this board. Some people may not like the direction of the interior or the car itself, but instead of being glad Camaro's coming back with a strong GM effort, they only complain and predict the end of the car because GM is a bunch of idiots.......heck of a way to say thanks to the Camaro team for their EXTREME EFFORTS to involve every Camaro fan in the process as much as possible.

It's sad that BayerZ28 can post a thread which almost moves one to tears about the experience of a Camaro, and then a couple of weeks later we see that apparently the experience of a Camaro is to bicker, insult and complain because every detail of the car isn't exactly what you'd like it to be. :(

I have faith in the car, faith in GM, but after today I'm not sure I have much faith in the supposed Camaro faithful...... :(

Well put. I'm just gonna say that there's a reason why I spend more time at another forum for the 5th gen...

right on!! I agree 100%

Shell... don't let it bother you. One problem with these forums - they give disproportionate visibility to a minority group of cynics. Don't forget about the 'silent majority' here... those who helped make the new Camaro an award-winning star, and helped it get the rave reviews it deserves. I'm not planning to let a few gripers ruin my day... and I imagine anyone from GM reading here knows well enough from history here, just to filter out their negativity. Luckily for us - the designers, engineers and testers are powered more than enough by their own passion and respect for Camaro and Chevy racing and street heritage, to not be swayed or discouraged by a vocal minority of whiners on a web site.

I'm keeping the faith! Damn the torpedoes and full speed ahead :)

Well, it's obvious GM listens to ALL of their enthusiests, and we're proud of that fact!:cz28:

And that said, I'm sure "they" know how to sort out constructive criticism and just plain trash talk.

But, if we don't say how we really feel, like it or not, then our feedback is useless.
They're listening to multiple sites, among other onlookers at shows etc..

Are we glad the new Camaro is coming back?... damn right!
All of us.
And the exterior is gorgeous!

And like Scott has said, they're taking time to get it "RIGHT"...

Everyone's opinions help to make sure it'll be "RIGHT"...
So, don't be discouraged, take it all with a grain of salt; GM has made some truly gorgeous interiors as of late, they'll get it right...I have enough faith left to wait & see.;)

Well, it's obvious GM listens to ALL of their enthusiests, and we're proud of that fact!:cz28:

And that said, I'm sure "they" know how to sort out constructive criticism and just plain trash talk.

But, if we don't say how we really feel, like it or not, then our feedback is useless.
They're listening to multiple sites, among other onlookers at shows etc..

Are we glad the new Camaro is coming back?... damn right!
All of us.
And the exterior is gorgeous!

And like Scott has said, they're taking time to get it "RIGHT"...

Everyone's opinions help to make sure it'll be "RIGHT"...
So, don't be discouraged, take it all with a grain of salt; GM has made some truly gorgeous interiors as of late, they'll get it right...I have enough faith left to wait & see.;)


GOOD POST !!! :bow:

Personally, I think its healthy for this "community". If we were all just swinging from the same set of nuts, I'm pretty sure both the car and this site would be rather boring.

To each their own - even if ones opinion is different from another.

i think its fine for people to voice concerns, i just think alot of people are going about it the wrong way.

give constructive criticism, dont just say its **** and you wont buy it.

W3rd...

I was trying to get people to forget about what they are concerned about and just look forward to the Arrival of the new Camaro... But I guess that was short lived... I agree 100% do0d..

I got one person in my thread to admit it...
Nice read...thank you.

When I read threads like this it makes me forget all the "I hate the interior, I'm not buying one" threads and just think ahead to that day that I'll be picking mine up.

I've posted this in another thread a few weeks back....but it sums up what I'll be thinking the first time I turn the key...(in the words of that chick in the CTS commercial)..."the real question is when you turn your car on, does it return the favor." That and FINALLY THE WAIT IS OVER! (as I drop the hammer out of the dealership).


I'll merge this one myself...

^ I saw and read your post, I just didn't want o post whore or be a glory hog.. I was trying to get into peoples heads to quit bickering about the interior or the shark fin antenna and just be happy for the car's return..

__________________________________________________ _______________


On a separate note...


Maybe even a "Good job Scott/Gm" would be due.. I didn't see ONE of those on here... EVAR... Or not that I remember.. We gotta back these people because they DO have the power to scrap the car BASED on the general consensus. = People BITCHING about the CAR!!!

STOP BITCHING ABOUT TO THE DAMN INTERIOR!!!! I KNOW some or most of us are really passionate about this car and are concerned, but cripes, the bitching has gotten old! Like I told Chris and Jason in the Podcast, I don't go into these forums very often because most of the ideas are beaten to death.. AND I don't like to see people bitching about the damn interior..
IT'S NOT DONE YET!!


Admin/Mods: I apologize for swearing, but you know where I'm coming from.. Sorry, but I've been in RANT mode since I woke up this morning.

We have some VERY powerful people that read these boards. That is probably WHY we voice our concerns because we know they will be read.. But that's enough, you've gotten your point across, 80% of the people do NOT like the interior.. Enough with complaining about the interior, I'd just be happy to see the new Camaro in the showroom.



[/RANT]

Shell... don't let it bother you. One problem with these forums - they give disproportionate visibility to a minority group of cynics. Don't forget about the 'silent majority' here... those who helped make the new Camaro an award-winning star, and helped it get the rave reviews it deserves. I'm not planning to let a few gripers ruin my day... and I imagine anyone from GM reading here knows well enough from history here, just to filter out their negativity. Luckily for us - the designers, engineers and testers are powered more than enough by their own passion and respect for Camaro and Chevy racing and street heritage, to not be swayed or discouraged by a vocal minority of whiners on a web site.

I'm keeping the faith! Damn the torpedoes and full speed ahead :)


:yes:
And those silent ones of us who are just here to learn and listen to wise words from people in the know (Scott, Guy, etc) and who have a lot more experience and knowledge than I.

I checked out this site this morning over breakfast because I was bored and didn't expect any news over the weekend. I was thrilled to see the new interior pictures that leaked out, although I feel bad for the Camaro team, I was glad to see the interior looking better than in previous pictures. Then I read the one, 7 page thread ripping the interior to shreds.... :(

Over the course of the day I've been back on from time to time when I've had a chance, and I see there are now multiple threads and as much heated and hostile discussion about the interior than ever - to the point where people are starting new threads just to reinforce their own points.

And all I can say is that it's a sad, sad day for Camaro fans, and for CamaroZ28.com when after a long hiatus we're seeing GM put serious and costly effort into building a new Camaro (despite CAFE, despite Oshawa resourcing) instead of just raiding the parts bin and producing a generic car, and the best Camaro site on the web is slammed with complaints of every type and hostility that I've never seen on this board. Some people may not like the direction of the interior or the car itself, but instead of being glad Camaro's coming back with a strong GM effort, they only complain and predict the end of the car because GM is a bunch of idiots.......heck of a way to say thanks to the Camaro team for their EXTREME EFFORTS to involve every Camaro fan in the process as much as possible.

It's sad that BayerZ28 can post a thread which almost moves one to tears about the experience of a Camaro, and then a couple of weeks later we see that apparently the experience of a Camaro is to bicker, insult and complain because every detail of the car isn't exactly what you'd like it to be. :(

I have faith in the car, faith in GM, but after today I'm not sure I have much faith in the supposed Camaro faithful...... :(

Couldnt agree more! I saw the pictures and was excited to see progress but then I look down at how many posts were in the thread in the short amount of time and I knew there would be a few people for the damn it all to hell brigade camped out putting it down and saying they are off to purchase there mustang......... :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: ;)

I checked out this site this morning over breakfast because I was bored and didn't expect any news over the weekend. I was thrilled to see the new interior pictures that leaked out, although I feel bad for the Camaro team, I was glad to see the interior looking better than in previous pictures. Then I read the one, 7 page thread ripping the interior to shreds.... :(

Over the course of the day I've been back on from time to time when I've had a chance, and I see there are now multiple threads and as much heated and hostile discussion about the interior than ever - to the point where people are starting new threads just to reinforce their own points.

And all I can say is that it's a sad, sad day for Camaro fans, and for CamaroZ28.com when after a long hiatus we're seeing GM put serious and costly effort into building a new Camaro (despite CAFE, despite Oshawa resourcing) instead of just raiding the parts bin and producing a generic car, and the best Camaro site on the web is slammed with complaints of every type and hostility that I've never seen on this board. Some people may not like the direction of the interior or the car itself, but instead of being glad Camaro's coming back with a strong GM effort, they only complain and predict the end of the car because GM is a bunch of idiots.......heck of a way to say thanks to the Camaro team for their EXTREME EFFORTS to involve every Camaro fan in the process as much as possible.

It's sad that BayerZ28 can post a thread which almost moves one to tears about the experience of a Camaro, and then a couple of weeks later we see that apparently the experience of a Camaro is to bicker, insult and complain because every detail of the car isn't exactly what you'd like it to be. :(

I have faith in the car, faith in GM, but after today I'm not sure I have much faith in the supposed Camaro faithful...... :(

Damn skippy. But don't worry, there are a lot of us who can't wait for what may well be the best Camaro ever. Some folks you can't please no matter what. I for one, am happy as a clam!:D

Couldnt agree more! I saw the pictures and was excited to see progress but then I look down at how many posts were in the thread in the short amount of time and I knew there would be a few people for the damn it all to hell brigade camped out putting it down and saying they are off to purchase there mustang......... :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: ;)
I'm really sorry guys. I know I shouldn't laugh about this. But that phrase "damn it all to hell brigade". :lol: :D ...well it's right on the mark :lol:

I checked out this site this morning over breakfast because I was bored and didn't expect any news over the weekend. I was thrilled to see the new interior pictures that leaked out, although I feel bad for the Camaro team, I was glad to see the interior looking better than in previous pictures. Then I read the one, 7 page thread ripping the interior to shreds.... :(

Over the course of the day I've been back on from time to time when I've had a chance, and I see there are now multiple threads and as much heated and hostile discussion about the interior than ever - to the point where people are starting new threads just to reinforce their own points.

And all I can say is that it's a sad, sad day for Camaro fans, and for CamaroZ28.com when after a long hiatus we're seeing GM put serious and costly effort into building a new Camaro (despite CAFE, despite Oshawa resourcing) instead of just raiding the parts bin and producing a generic car, and the best Camaro site on the web is slammed with complaints of every type and hostility that I've never seen on this board. Some people may not like the direction of the interior or the car itself, but instead of being glad Camaro's coming back with a strong GM effort, they only complain and predict the end of the car because GM is a bunch of idiots.......heck of a way to say thanks to the Camaro team for their EXTREME EFFORTS to involve every Camaro fan in the process as much as possible.

It's sad that BayerZ28 can post a thread which almost moves one to tears about the experience of a Camaro, and then a couple of weeks later we see that apparently the experience of a Camaro is to bicker, insult and complain because every detail of the car isn't exactly what you'd like it to be. :(

I have faith in the car, faith in GM, but after today I'm not sure I have much faith in the supposed Camaro faithful...... :(



Shellhead --

Thank you for a voice of reason -- your post makes some of this well worth while.

One thought -- do NOT base the "Camaro Faithful" on this site. (no insult meant to Jason and Chris.)

Here's what I've found over the past year or so --

There are very few people who do not like the new Camaro -- HOWEVER, the ones who do not like the car post time and time again.

I could listen to this site -- OR -- I could listen to a dozen or more sites -- OR -- I could go out and talk to Camaro enthusiasts -- OR -- I could go out and quietly stand by the Concept and listen to "Joe American" and "Mary American" and listen to what they have to say as they look over the car -- OR -- I could listen to those who have been in product clinics -- OR -- I could listen to the 12 disciples (of which there are 15)

OR.........I could do all of the above except listen to those on this site.

Guess whot!!

The last choice.

And Bob - why is it that you have this thing with (how shall I put this) a part of the male anatomy whenever anyone says they like something about this car?

Does this go hand-in-hand with 'winkie envy?'

LOL. Was wondering when you would pop in. I thought my post was pretty tame, Scott. But I guess it all does go hand-in-hand.

Oh wait....that didn't sound right. :eek:

In all seriousness....dude....you really sound like you're trying to squelch any and all criticism of the car....unless it is done "just so". People of passion...call em enthusiast or nutswingers (sorry) or just plain ole car guys....have different opinions, and will express them when given the chance (in this case, Jason & Chris give us that chance). I'm not your enemy (regardless of what you might think), and I don't believe anyone else here is either. I know you like to take things personally, but for crying out loud - 3 or 4 folks on this site could go away and never return, but there would still be criticism, probably the same type. It's life. It's the internet. To take it personally shows passion & committment. To take it TOO personally will get you a quick trip to the ER.

FWIW....I like your car. I'm not wild about the interior pics, but when I see one in person, if it "clicks" for me, then I'll consider it (gotta wait on the weight-nazi issue too, of course). If it doesn't, it doesn't. Simple as that. In the meantime....let it roll off your shoulders. That little lecture you gave Charlie was pretty pathetic, IMHO. He is AT LEAST as passionate as anyone else. But he is also demanding. Nothing wrong with that.

Gotta run out to Monterey. Have a great day!

Bob

PS...Can I still buy one?

LOL. Was wondering when you would pop in. I thought my post was pretty tame, Scott. But I guess it all does go hand-in-hand.

Oh wait....that didn't sound right. :eek:

In all seriousness....dude....you really sound like you're trying to squelch any and all criticism of the car....unless it is done "just so". People of passion...call em enthusiast or nutswingers (sorry) or just plain ole car guys....have different opinions, and will express them when given the chance (in this case, Jason & Chris give us that chance). I'm not your enemy (regardless of what you might think), and I don't believe anyone else here is either. I know you like to take things personally, but for crying out loud - 3 or 4 folks on this site could go away and never return, but there would still be criticism, probably the same type. It's life. It's the internet. To take it personally shows passion & committment. To take it TOO personally will get you a quick trip to the ER.

FWIW....I like your car. I'm not wild about the interior pics, but when I see one in person, if it "clicks" for me, then I'll consider it (gotta wait on the weight-nazi issue too, of course). If it doesn't, it doesn't. Simple as that. In the meantime....let it roll off your shoulders. That little lecture you gave Charlie was pretty pathetic, IMHO. He is AT LEAST as passionate as anyone else. But he is also demanding. Nothing wrong with that.

Gotta run out to Monterey. Have a great day!

Bob

PS...Can I still buy one?
Bob - I fully respect your opinions, even if it sometimes might not seem like it here. But I do agree with FBF on his posts of last night. I believe he was right on, in what he said. Sure, posts by folks like Z284ever's are... legitimate. But it's clear he is not a Camaro fan, instead he seems intent on preaching the car's doom. Why should we continue to put up with such caustic negativity?

for crying out loud - 3 or 4 folks on this site could go away and never return, but there would still be criticism, probably the same type.

But there are about 3 or 4 folks on this site that could go away and more than half or the broken record record posts ripping the car apart would also leave this site with them. I believe that is what Scott meant here...

There are very few people who do not like the new Camaro -- HOWEVER, the ones who do not like the car post time and time again.

...and I think a lot of us are getting sick of the repetition. If anything, it is rude. Sure, this is the Internet but I refuse to agree that there isn't a person on the other side of the keyboard to should get as much respect as they give out.

Some people need to remember the intent and purpose of this site. If they are not here for a similar intent, they are on the wrong site.

Some people need to remember the intent and purpose of this site. If they are not here for a similar intent, they are on the wrong site.

Thread Closed..... :bow:

But it's clear he is not a Camaro fan

I'm going to be as gentle as I can here.

I don't think you could be more wrong, personally.

I think we all want what's best for Camaro's survival....but our opinions about what is best can differ, and differ greatly. And it is because of our passion that we get so worked up. Do you honestly think that guys who don't like the interior (or the weight, or the styling, or whatever) want the car to die? If this was the case, why would we say anything at all? If I was convinced the interior was going to be lousy and I wanted Camaro to fail, I'd keep my mouth shut. :no:

I resent the fact that anyone who doesn't necessarily "tow the company line" is labeled as a Camaro-hater.

The interior is what it is. That ship as sailed. I will most likely decide to keep (and enjoy!) my 4th Gen the way things are looking right now. It still has a lot of life left in it (at 62,000 miles) and it'll be paid off in March '09. If the 5th Gen isn't what's best for me but it turns out to be a great success as a whole, I couldn't be happier. In the meantime, I'll look forward to see what the 6th Gen brings us.

LOL. Was wondering when you would pop in. I thought my post was pretty tame, Scott. But I guess it all does go hand-in-hand.

Oh wait....that didn't sound right. :eek:

In all seriousness....dude....you really sound like you're trying to squelch any and all criticism of the car....unless it is done "just so". People of passion...call em enthusiast or nutswingers (sorry) or just plain ole car guys....have different opinions, and will express them when given the chance (in this case, Jason & Chris give us that chance). I'm not your enemy (regardless of what you might think), and I don't believe anyone else here is either. I know you like to take things personally, but for crying out loud - 3 or 4 folks on this site could go away and never return, but there would still be criticism, probably the same type. It's life. It's the internet. To take it personally shows passion & committment. To take it TOO personally will get you a quick trip to the ER.

FWIW....I like your car. I'm not wild about the interior pics, but when I see one in person, if it "clicks" for me, then I'll consider it (gotta wait on the weight-nazi issue too, of course). If it doesn't, it doesn't. Simple as that. In the meantime....let it roll off your shoulders. That little lecture you gave Charlie was pretty pathetic, IMHO. He is AT LEAST as passionate as anyone else. But he is also demanding. Nothing wrong with that.

Gotta run out to Monterey. Have a great day!

Bob

PS...Can I still buy one?



Yes! You can still buy one.

Yes -- everyone's entitled to their opinion.

That said -- I, along with many others on this board, are tired of people jumping to all kinds of conclusions -- esp. when unauthorized photos suddenly appear.

I think if you will go back several years - even to the 35th unveil -- you'll find that there are some people who just can't help themselves -- they just have to bash -- if for no other reason than to say something. Invariably it leads to controversy -- and in the end, they're usually wrong and will admit it. But they'll beat a horse to death -- and then some.....

I've said all along that the name Camaro means "friend, pal, or comrade' and that we should all endeavor to get along. Unfortunately last night I broke my own rule.

I believe -- and I could be wrong here -- I've been wrong many times in my life -- that I have sat back and allowed people to go on and on and on......but when someone's wrong -- or it gets to the point that the horse has been made into something that could be spread on a cracker -- I've been known to chime in.

You have the right to voice your opinion about my lecture to Charlie -- however, I don't think it was pathetic - I think it needed to be said.

I think you have some very valid points and can be the voice of reason most of the time --my only issue with you is the "N*thugger" and "winkie" remarks -- just because some people happen to see it my way -- or Jason's way -- does not mean that they don't disagree with us sometimes. It is, in my opinion, a put-down.

Now -- let's move on -- once again--
... I'm asking is that everyone sit back -- remember that we're supposed to be here to celebrate the automobile and our passion for those automobiles --

...and I'm asking everyone to give the car a chance. Unauthorized photos, as we have seen several times in the past two years -- can damage the brand.

Z28Wilson, I am also going to be as gentle as I can...and I am not meaning to lump you into those I am referring to, just clarifying some things that you referenced...

I think we all want what's best for Camaro's survival....but our opinions about what is best can differ, and differ greatly. And it is because of our passion that we get so worked up.

I believe there is a right way and a wrong way to present those opinions. "Passion" doesn't equal the right to be rude and disrespectful.

Do you honestly think that guys who don't like the interior (or the weight, or the styling, or whatever) want the car to die? If this was the case, why would we say anything at all?

Because some people just want to be right and feel that their opinions must be shared by everyone else. If they are not, they need to be forced to hear it...again and again and again.

I resent the fact that anyone who doesn't necessarily "tow the company line" is labeled as a Camaro-hater.

No one is asking for that, but we do ask that everyone remembers what site they are on and the reason for its existence. I have found myself also being repetitive lately in reminding people of this.

No problem Jason -- I think we ALL need to re-evaluate our respectfulness and move along. That's what I am going to try to do.

I'm going to be as gentle as I can here.

I don't think you could be more wrong, personally.

I think we all want what's best for Camaro's survival....but our opinions about what is best can differ, and differ greatly. And it is because of our passion that we get so worked up. Do you honestly think that guys who don't like the interior (or the weight, or the styling, or whatever) want the car to die? If this was the case, why would we say anything at all? If I was convinced the interior was going to be lousy and I wanted Camaro to fail, I'd keep my mouth shut. :no:

I resent the fact that anyone who doesn't necessarily "tow the company line" is labeled as a Camaro-hater.

The interior is what it is. That ship as sailed. I will most likely decide to keep (and enjoy!) my 4th Gen the way things are looking right now. If the car isn't what's best for me but it turns out to be a great success as a whole, I couldn't be happier. In the meantime, I'll look forward to see what the 6th Gen brings us.
Well I can definitely empathize, with your frustration on this. I do understand that what drives some here, to criticize, is a hope that it will result in improving the car.

But can we talk, for a minute, about the definition of 'Camaro enthusiast'? To me, a Camaro enthusiast is NOT someone who always says the right positive thing about Camaros. It's NOT someone who is devoid of constructive criticism. But a Camaro enthusiast is driven, deep down, by an all-abiding love for this car. They understand what can be changed, when it can be changed, and most importantly - what CANNOT be changed - such as the range of likely curb weights of a modern, well-equipped, RWD IRS V8 2+2 coupe. And a Camaro enthusiast would/will live peacefully with that real-world constraint - instead of repeatedly carping and moaning about the issue until kingdom come. You see, a true Camaro enthusiast realizes we are all a community here. They hope it grows, and hope their input will help it grow. So they post here accordingly - sometimes with a few genuine concerns, but usually just to express their excitement and share it with others.

It's a free country. People can post doom and gloom if they prefer. But the majority here, who are indeed true Camaro enthusiasts, do not come here to see a cynical minority post over and over about how they dislike various things, especially things that a lot of us like, or understand are not likely to change. You know what? I really like the Camaro's (likely) interior design thrust. I don't mind in the least, that it's likely to end up being a hefty car, as is required nowadays to be in this feature and price bracket. I don't care if it never has a Z/28 emblem, vs Z28. Just deliver mine with a honkin' American V8 :cool:

You have the right to voice your opinion about my lecture to Charlie -- however, I don't think it was pathetic - I think it needed to be said.

.

If you think it needed to be said - well, you said it.

Jason, I got your PM, and I will respect your wishes.


I don't really care about the rest of this BS, but don't for one second think I'm not a Camaro enthusiast. I have been one my whole life. My automotive world has revolved around Camaro since I was six.

Scott, Jason - you want me to stop sharing comments regarding certain aspects of the Camaro? Done, you won't hear a peep out of me.

But everyone, just know, that whatever I said, was always out of the burning desire to improve the Camaro, not to tear it down.

And Scott, I am truly disappointed in your comments, because you of all people, should know better than that.

But everyone, just know, that whatever I said, was always out of the burning desire to improve the Camaro, not to tear it down.

"Improve" is a relative term in this case. It's sort of like your thread dealing with de-bulking the nose. The changes that you proposed took what I think is an awesome design and morphed it with an '85 Monte Carlo. I respect your vision and opinion, but I'm glad you don't have a say in the direction of the car.

Scott, Jason - you want me to stop sharing comments regarding certain aspects of the Camaro? Done, you won't hear a peep out of me.

This is just the sort of thing that this no one in the community wants or needs. Give and take is fine, and differing opinions are fine. What prompted me to start this thread had nothing to do with ANYONE sitting quietly and saying nothing.

The fact is the Camaro team has done more than any team has done in recent memory to find out from the consumers and enthusiasts what they want in the car. When the rhetoric becomes harsh and insulting and when a simple difference of opinion turns into multiple pages of complaints from a vocal few, that does the entire Camaro team a disservice. No one is denying passion in behind those comments, but ungoverned passion can be destructive as well.

I had to be forced to buy another car after my TA because the cars I wanted were on hiatus......there's nothing worse than seeing NO cars on the market that you're interested in when the car your driving is fun and exciting......it's a kind of purgatory for a car fan. And no matter how passionately we may disagree, or how strongly we may feel about something, we should all have respect and gratitude that we're getting our car back - even if it's not perfect for us.

Scott, Jason - you want me to stop sharing comments regarding certain aspects of the Camaro? Done, you won't hear a peep out of me.

But everyone, just know, that whatever I said, was always out of the burning desire to improve the Camaro, not to tear it down.



And this forum will be worse off without your input d00d.

Guys and gals there are a few posters here over the years that have established themselves as informative, passionate, and level-headed. Folks whose posts add alot to this forum. And I'd say Charlie is near the top of that list. Take PacerX for example (wheres that lug been anyway?). His posts were very informative and enjoyable although he could fly off from time to time but he still added alot to the forums.

Sorry but I'd take 1 poster like Charlie, Guy, or Pacer than 20 posters that are here just to slam interior or exterior pictures without giving any credible reason as to why they feel that way or how they could do it better.

/rant off

Originally Posted by JasonD:
I believe there is a right way and a wrong way to present those opinions. "Passion" doesn't equal the right to be rude and disrespectful.
Jason, I feel for Charlie in the fact that recently anyone, with a slightly negative resonse to spy pics was verbally attacked, multiple times, and by supposed Camaro fans.
None of them came back siting positive views of certain features in question, just....."FLAME ON"!!!
I really think he has shown more restraint than I would've considering some of the bashing his posts recieved.
If he's told to cool it, then so should a few others on the other side of the fence...IMHO..
If noone's allowed to voice opinions on things they think need improved, but praised for the oppposite, I believe it'll lead to a boring website and a possibly a boring car.
Since Scott said he's not listening to us anyways, what's the big deal???
(PS: I feel Charlie BLEEDS Camaro, that's why his posted are the most adiment.)

And this forum will be worse off without your input d00d.

Guys and gals there are a few posters here over the years that have established themselves as informative, passionate, and level-headed. Folks whose posts add alot to this forum. And I'd say Charlie is near the top of that list. Take PacerX for example (wheres that lug been anyway?). His posts were very informative and enjoyable although he could fly off from time to time but he still added alot to the forums.

Sorry but I'd take 1 poster like Charlie, Guy, or Pacer than 20 posters that are here just to slam interior or exterior pictures without giving any credible reason as to why they feel that way or how they could do it better.

/rant off

Thanks so much for the kind words. But I'm not going anywhere. I think I'll be taking any spirited discussion elsewhere though.

Thanks again SFire, Tim, Bob, Mark, 90rocz for your support - and all you guys who PM'd and emailed me. You guys are great.

Charlie

Jeebus, you guys. All I did was respectfully ask him to reel it in a bit and stop raining on people's parade so much when they are trying to be hopeful for the car. That's it. He's not the first and he is not the last. It is never personal. It is part of running a site and trying to keep people getting along.

Charlie, go right ahead and post what I sent you if you want, it wasn't the big deal everyone is either pretending or assuming it to be. Let's spare the drama and get back to things.

Hey Jason....can I post the "kid gloves" PMs that we exchanged? :D

And Scott....the "Winkie" comments are completely and totally tongue in cheek these days. I guess I assumed that was pretty obvious.

The scrotum swinger stuff....well....maybe not so much tongue & cheek, but in an effort to keep Jason out of my PM Box, I can adjust fire. :)

And I still think you are way off on Charlie, but its dropped on this end.

Bob

Bob, you owe me beers.

Bob, you owe me beers.

Come to Chicago guys - I'll buy.

Well, there's always the next CamaroZ28.Com Member Summit in Indy this year. I think Bob said he can't make it or is scared of me. One or the other. ;) Charlie, you up for it?

I just WISH the spy pics never surfaced. I think the problem on this site is that many people get into arguments over something that can’t be changed and we never should have seen. It’s very easy to second guess the car from pics of unfinished work. I really hate to see the name calling because I just know that it makes no difference. We act like we have some kind of control over the car and maybe because Scott takes time to post here those concerns will be put at the top of the list. Some have said their sharp criticism is for the good of the Camaro. Very noble but your opinion makes no difference and when a pissing match breaks out the opinion means even less.
Listen GM is the only company that can build a real Camaro, they are the only ones whom ever could. We are all here because at one point in time we fell in love with one of those Camaros. They did something right so give them the benefit of the doubt this time. In fact this is the first Camaro under development during the internet age. It’s amazing they got any of them right w/o our daily internet chat board input. So just wait until the car comes out! Then make all the opinions because then people can take it or leave it and there will be no debate because it’s done. (It’s really done already)

I don't do beer....I need complete control of all my faculties - all the time - just to get through the day. I'll buy ya a diet DP though. ;)

Charlie....my Daughter has been accepted to the Chicago School of Art. If she goes there (and they'll need to pony up a scholarship, cause Mom & Dad can't afford that kind of school!), I'll look you up when we go out to get her settled. :)

Well, there's always the next CamaroZ28.Com Member Summit in Indy this year. I think Bob said he can't make it or is scared of me. One or the other. ;) Charlie, you up for it?

I'm trying to schedule it.

I don't do beer....I need complete control of all my faculties - all the time - just to get through the day. I'll buy ya a diet DP though. ;)

DP works for me. It is what my entire family has drank long before I was around.

I'm trying to schedule it.

Cool. I'll bring the boxing gloves. ;) :p

I don't do beer....I need complete control of all my faculties - all the time - just to get through the day. I'll buy ya a diet DP though. ;)

Charlie....my Daughter has been accepted to the Chicago School of Art. If she goes there (and they'll need to pony up a scholarship, cause Mom & Dad can't afford that kind of school!), I'll look you up when we go out to get her settled. :)
Well, you'd better look me up.

I don't do beer much either. I had more than my fill of it in school. I do enjoy a Kettle One martini, straight up, though. Try ordering one of those in Bowling Green, Kentucky. :eek: Blue cheese olives? Wha?

I just WISH the spy pics never surfaced. I think the problem on this site is that many people get into arguments over something that can’t be changed and we never should have seen. It’s very easy to second guess the car from pics of unfinished work. I really hate to see the name calling because I just know that it makes no difference. We act like we have some kind of control over the car and maybe because Scott takes time to post here those concerns will be put at the top of the list. Some have said their sharp criticism is for the good of the Camaro. Very noble but your opinion makes no difference and when a pissing match breaks out the opinion means even less.
Listen GM is the only company that can build a real Camaro, they are the only ones whom ever could. We are all here because at one point in time we fell in love with one of those Camaros. They did something right so give them the benefit of the doubt this time. In fact this is the first Camaro under development during the internet age. It’s amazing they got any of them right w/o our daily internet chat board input. So just wait until the car comes out! Then make all the opinions because then people can take it or leave it and there will be no debate because it’s done. (It’s really done already)

I occasionally go against my better judgement on an internet site... This is probably one of those occasions.

You are absolutely right to wish some of these spyshots were never posted. I realize it can be fun, or exciting, to peek under the curtain at a rehearsal for a show, see an unedited film, or in this case look at a car in progress. Formulating what appears to be a final opinion on a non-finalized project is essentially drawing a conclusion on an unconcluded offering.

The Camaro will be a huge success in it's final form if the economy allows it to do so. I think I have some automobile saavy, and can draw a reasonable feel from the reaction the concept draws from a huge sampling of folks from all over this country.

I have spent more time around the concept Camaros than most folks and I just can't square any thoughts about the preproduction exterior pix that have hit the net which find it not true to, or better than the concept.

Any bruhaha over the interior shots posted are NOT a valid basis to draw and post CONCLUSIVE declarations on this or any other forum. Love or hate the final product, not "rehearsal" shots STOLEN for an apparent moment of profit or ego gratification.

GM is, no doubt, willing to hear the good and bad reactions when they show the final product. However, it is counterproductive to them to have to put out fires that aren't burning. There's lots of money, jobs, and lifestyles at stake.

If people want to be insiders. If people want to be perceived as car sharp? Then act like it.

Draw conclusions when things are concluded. There's a reason football games are not "called" in the third quarter. It would not be fair.

Well, you'd better look me up.

I don't do beer much either. I had more than my fill of it in school. I do enjoy a Kettle One martini, straight up, though. Try ordering one of those in Bowling Green, Kentucky. :eek: Blue cheese olives? Wha?

I'm coming to Chicago my friend. Be there or accept the black Suburban treatment...;) Perhaps you can chug a couple of DPs, but make mine a nice wine or single malt.

I'm still trying convince my wife we need to go visit her friend in Indy this September. :) She's not keen on the idea of a roadtrip though... especially in the Camaro. :p

I'm still trying convince my wife we need to go visit her friend in Indy this September. :) She's not keen on the idea of a roadtrip though... especially in the Camaro. :p

Well..I'm doing all I can to be there... SO... tell her I would consider it a personal favor. ;)

That should do it:lol:

I'm coming to Chicago my friend. Be there or accept the black Suburban treatment...;) Perhaps you can chug a couple of DPs, but make mine a nice wine or single malt.

Let me know when and where...

Let me know when and where...

Flying in next thursday. I'll be there for several days. McCormick;)

Originally posted By The Fbod Father
I could listen to this site -- OR -- I could listen to a dozen or more sites -- OR -- I could go out and talk to Camaro enthusiasts -- OR -- I could go out and quietly stand by the Concept and listen to "Joe American" and "Mary American" and listen to what they have to say as they look over the car -- OR -- I could listen to those who have been in product clinics -- OR -- I could listen to the 12 disciples (of which there are 15)

OR.........I could do all of the above except listen to those on this site.

Guess whot!!

The last choice.


It's pretty funny that you mention about standing quietly by the concept and listen to the average Joe talk about the car. I did exactly that at NAIAS this past weekend, only after fighting people off to get close to it. I heard such things as "sexy", "hot", "Holy S@!*, when can I get one!" I know that this car will be a hit. Take every "spy" shot witha grain of salt, it has been said before and repeated multiple times, IT'S NOT A FINISHED PRODUCT!!

Is there going to be a CZ28 meet-up? I am heading to the windy city on Sat, the 9th.

Flying in next thursday. I'll be there for several days. McCormick;)


Let's make it happen.

sure wish i could be there, guys. I'm a native (born in Joliet).

I hope to establish a consistent voice on this site someday. I'll try to find a way to join the conversation flow. So far, I've had a hard time doing that on this site, for some reason.

Anyways, enjoy the GTG, you all. :)

You know there are always going to be sour pusses. Just wait until it comes out and they are driving beside one. THERE ATTITUDES WILL TOTALLY CHANGE. I think they are just having anxiety over the wait lol. I know i bought a s197 to help me wait muahahaha

Sorry for yelling just trying to get your attention.

Just a old guy here who has been a Camaro fanatic for longer than most have been alive on this board..................

THIS IS A NEW CAMARO...................Some will love it more than others!

Leaked pics suck.....they start all kinds of Chit and usually are preprepreproduction pics of the real deal.



We are LUCKY to have Scott and his team on our (camaroz28.com) board.

He gives us tid bits of info as he can ( has to keep his job!!!!)

I have had/have 2 4th gens.........lots of good stuff some not so good.

did not keep me from buying either of them...........

Guess I am just another Camaro LOVER @ heart..........

rant off.:bow:

Gary