No GTO and Monaro... Camaro get Exported.. Is the Camaro now a world car?

Here are just a few thought on the loss of some Zeta products and how their loss may not be a bad thing for the Camaro as it could be.

Bob Lutz today has stated the Monaro and GTO are off and will not be produced.

Bob also noted the RWD Impala is off so outside of the G8 and other Holden Austrailian cars the Camaro looks like the only Zeta built in North America.

It was noted the other day the Camaro was going to be exported which I think we all expected in limited numbers. With the Changes does this mean more cars will be exported to cover for the loss of the Holden Coupe? Will the increase in production help support the Camaro with the loss of the sister Zeta RWD Impala?

I am just taking a stab at this but with the loss of the addtional Zeta cars this could help promote the Camaro as a world performance car and if popular in great numbers could be a gate way to a 6th Gen when the time is right?

It was noted a while back if the car was exported it would remain named a Camaro and there were no plans for RHD. Could this have changed for shipping these down under or England?

Even with the CAFE problems I could see a Future Camaro on the Alpha platform. Please note this is only a guess for anyone as the Alpha still has a long way to go before it is apporved.

Just something to ponder.

If Scott could elaborate a bit on the shutdown of more Zeta products, that would be greatly appreciated. If CAFE is the ONLY reason to shut them down, I would be very dissapointed. There has to be more than just fuel economy reasons to completely kill a project like that.

I hope to GOD that the Camaro remains safe and untouched, because if the Camaro becomes another victim of Washington's appetite for nosing in on your business, I will personally drive down to Capitol Hill and tear that building appart, brick by brick, with my own bare hands! :irk:

CAFE is a major reason as the more V8 sports cars they sell at a profit, the more crap cars they have to give away (no one wants to buy 'em) in order to break even on CAFE.

Camaro is too large to be world car.

Camaro is too large to be world car.
I cannot tell... are you joking?

Camaro could be exported, especially to Austrailia for example. Mideast, another possible location. There's a lot of potential for the car overseas.

Bob Lutz also said that the Camaro would not be made for another 30 years. I don't think RWD performance will be on the chopping block like everyone claims. A large RWD car can get about the same milage a Malibu if weight is controled, and all the tricks are used. What is really threatened by the CAFE legislation is large SUV's like the Tahoe. Also 2030 is a long time away. Right now legislation seens to favor oil companies, and kick automakers. That can easily change in a decade.

The last time large coupes sold in large numbers was in the late 70's during the gas crunch.

I cannot tell... are you joking?

Camaro could be exported, especially to Austrailia for example. Mideast, another possible location. There's a lot of potential for the car overseas.

What would make you think I'm joking?

Yes, you could export it to Australia. They'd pick up a thousand or two. Probably the same amount in the ME.

In Europe or Japan or China it's too large to gain any meaningful volume.

In Europe or Japan or China it's too large to gain any meaningful volume.

I though the Chinese loved anything that says America...like a large Buick.

What would make you think I'm joking?

Yes, you could export it to Australia. They'd pick up a thousand or two. Probably the same amount in the ME.

In Europe or Japan or China it's too large to gain any meaningful volume.

Holden exports lots of cars larger than the Camaro to many other countries. Heck the last Camaro was sold in Europe although in small numbers. And I wouldn't speak for the Chinese just yet...

Either way this is a mute point since GM needs to market the Camaro to support itself on North American sales alone. IF GM needs foreign sales to keep the Camaro viable then they have developed a very poor business plan. Any foreign sales should be icing on the cake.

Holden exports lots of cars larger than the Camaro to many other countries. Heck the last Camaro was sold in Europe although in small numbers. And I wouldn't speak for the Chinese just yet...

Either way this is a mute point since GM needs to market the Camaro to support itself on North American sales alone. IF GM needs foreign sales to keep the Camaro viable then they have developed a very poor business plan. Any foreign sales should be icing on the cake.


On the contrary they had a very good plan to build the Impala and other Zeta's at the same plant. Now with CAFE Lutz said there is no way the Zeta can make 35 MPG.

They are hoping the RWD Alpha may be able to plug the hole but it is to soon to tell.

The Fiero suffered a similar fate as it was not fires or low sales that killed the car but the lack of another GM product for the Pontiac Michigan Plant. The GM 80 FWD F car replacmnet was to go into that plant to pick up the open volume as they expected Fiero sales to settlle to around 25,000 a year.

Well the GM 80 was killed and no other GM product could be built there that was ready for production. It left a plant with a car selling over 30,000 cars a year in a plant that could build near 200,000. If even Pontiac had shared the car like the Kappa is today and exported the car it would have helped.

But in the end the car had enough people who hated the car inside GM that they were sure to point out the loss of money at the plant. To be sure there were many other politics at the time that contributed but you shoulg get the idea.

I see the sharing of the line in Oshawa as a key but now with what? Shareing the car as a Firebird solves little. But to export this car to take the place of the Monaro and it's variants would help enough.

There is a lot to watch here as GM starts to make moves.

This is only one problem of many Bob Lutz has to face. the 35 MPG CAFE is not as far off as many would like to think once you add develpment time and Budgeting money to make changes.

China has its share of mid sized cars. The problem is that they're all practical - Audi, Buick, or the VW Santana. There did not seem to be a big market for performance coupes.

Holden exports lots of cars larger than the Camaro to many other countries. Heck the last Camaro was sold in Europe although in small numbers. And I wouldn't speak for the Chinese just yet...

Either way this is a mute point since GM needs to market the Camaro to support itself on North American sales alone. IF GM needs foreign sales to keep the Camaro viable then they have developed a very poor business plan. Any foreign sales should be icing on the cake.

Yeah Holden sells lots of cars , but how many coupes did they sell? A handful.


As far as the business plan, the Zeta plant at Oshawa is quickly becoming the Camaro plant.

As far as the business plan, the Zeta plant at Oshawa is quickly becoming the Camaro plant.

Zeta Plant?!?:confused:

I was under the distinct impression that Oshawa is being retooled to be a Flex line. Capable of many different types of vehicles not limited to just Zeta.

It wouldn't make any sense to have designed a plant to ONLY assemble Zeta/RWD vehicles. Even back then (~2006), they were unsure of whether CAFE would be passed or not, whispers were flying; so why take that chance?

I'm 99% sure I remember 'Flex Line'....not exclusivly Zeta vehicles......

all because of the stupid liberals and their whole fake global warming scam crap....

government should not impose rules that will hurt the economy and the american auto industry plays a very important role in the economy

michigan is hurting cuz of these liberals and these environmental freaks

Zeta Plant?!?:confused:

I was under the distinct impression that Oshawa is being retooled to be a Flex line. Capable of many different types of vehicles not limited to just Zeta.

It wouldn't make any sense to have designed a plant to ONLY assemble Zeta/RWD vehicles. Even back then (~2006), they were unsure of whether CAFE would be passed or not, whispers were flying; so why take that chance?

I'm 99% sure I remember 'Flex Line'....not exclusivly Zeta vehicles......

Yeah, but one line would have been dedicated to Camaro, Impala and a couple more Zetas. That was the business plan. That was the whole reason that Camaro was based off of Zeta in the first place and maybe one of the reasons we've had to wait so long for it.

Anyway, that "Zeta" line may very well ultimately become the "Camaro" line, if no other Zetas are assembled there.

As far as a Flex Line, AFAIK, it's not flex enough to to say - run a Zeta, Epsilon or W-car down the same line at the same time. I could be wrong though.

As far as a Flex Line, AFAIK, it's not flex enough to to say - run a Zeta, Epsilon or W-car down the same line at the same time. I could be wrong though.:lol:
I think we might both be off on this one.;) I always thought that was the point of a flex line....

all because of the stupid liberals and their whole fake global warming scam crap....

government should not impose rules that will hurt the economy and the american auto industry plays a very important role in the economy

michigan is hurting cuz of these liberals and these environmental freaks

it's not just the liberals...I believe "stupid gov't as a whole" would apply better. Because this issue is spreading like a plague throughout the whole system...If they would just drop the 'global warming', or more recently, 'climate change', and just put it out there:
Oil is bad for our economy, and our security...so we need to reduce our oil consumption...

...but alas, "global climate warmcooling changing" is easier to use for fearmongering, which is the only way to get people to accept changes (i.e. if the alternative to said change 'could be' worse).
But this isn't a political thread, and I have no intentions of turning it into one.:eek: ;) so don't reply:p

all because of the stupid liberals and their whole fake global warming scam crap....

government should not impose rules that will hurt the economy and the american auto industry plays a very important role in the economy

michigan is hurting cuz of these liberals and these environmental freaks

Watch the "liberal vs conservative" BS. You haven't been here long enough, and evidently don't know enough.

If Camaro is the only NA Zeta then lets call it F-body again! :cool:

To clarify my point I don’t see GM making a business plan to export the Camaro different than other Zeta’s. The export and sales of those vehicles is very much part of the business plan, outside of Camaro. So this will be very interesting and a bit scary for the Camaro as now its platform costs are no longer shared.
But now that the CAFÉ is out there and GM must plan for it since the Camaro has not even started it’s production run the car can run for 6-7 years w/o update if needed and that will give GM time to develop the next gen platform that should allow for FWD, RWD or AWD capability and thus the Camaro and other future vehicles could again share in it.
No more Zeta’s is a setback for sure but in business that’s part of the game. If the Camaro is successful, and I feel it will, there should be a place for it.

But now that the CAFÉ is out there and GM must plan for it since the Camaro has not even started it’s production run the car can run for 6-7 years w/o update if needed .


I think that's pretty long time. IMHO, Camaro will have 2-3 really good sales years before needing a bunch of money for a freshening. By the time they sell job 1, people will have already seen it for 3 years. And retro interiors typically have a very short shelf life with consumers.

Do you spend that couple of hundred or so million on a dying platform, or do you fold it into the next gen car, (if there even is one)? Man, I'd love to be a fly on the wall.....

GM is a global company that is acting more and more like a single global comapany. This is only the start.

I also ponder where the Chevy brand is going as we now have Chevy in the Middle east Brazil, and now in Europe [mostly Daewoo]. Are we seeing Chevy becoming a Global name plate and will serve needed product based on what market it is in?

I just see it as if they do export the Camaro in greater numbers it is a positive to the Camaro.

Now here is the reality of all the new bad news. This could and I am only saying could lead to a sixth Gen on the Alpha RWD [if it is approved]. It would be a smaller car lighter and brace yourself ...a V6 and 4 cylinder. We all are going to have to deal with the fact that the V8 is at a end accept for some trucks, Cadillac and the Corvette. Even Ford is backing away form the V8 in most models and embracing turbo Sixes to the tune of 340 HP.

Unless the goverment backs off the line up for most GM cars will be V6 or 4 cylinder. Now that is not to say we will not have fun cars to drive. You may very well see 400+ HP out of 3.6 turbo's and the like. Performance will not die it just will come in new packages.

We just need to see how GM is going to handel the exports and how strong of a brand it becomes. If it takes off world wide it can be a very postive thing out of a tough time for GM product panners. There is a lot that is going to happen and I can say GM is just now trying to sort it out. We all need to understand what they have to face and support some tough disssions.

All I can say is learn all you can, read and stay informed.

I think that's pretty long time. IMHO, Camaro will have 2-3 really good sales years before needing a bunch of money for a freshening. By the time they sell job 1, people will have already seen it for 3 years. And retro interiors typically have a very short shelf life with consumers.

Do you spend that couple of hundred or so million on a dying platform, or do you fold it into the next gen car, (if there even is one)? Man, I'd love to be a fly on the wall.....


Agreed it's not optimal but IF necessary could be done. The C6 will be out 6yrs before new model run and the Mustang will be at 5. This as opposed to dropping the car until a new platform is developed and going over this again. Won't happen.

History would say GM spends the money on the dying platform as they have in the past, '98 F-body. How much of that was internal heroics and how much was GM trying to add some excitement and turn the sales slide around... I think a lot of this will have to do with the Camaro's sales.

GM is a global company that is acting more and more like a single global comapany. This is only the start.

I also ponder where the Chevy brand is going as we now have Chevy in the Middle east Brazil, and now in Europe [mostly Daewoo]. Are we seeing Chevy becoming a Global name plate and will serve needed product based on what market it is in?

I just see it as if they do export the Camaro in greater numbers it is a positive to the Camaro.

Now here is the reality of all the new bad news. This could and I am only saying could lead to a sixth Gen on the Alpha RWD [if it is approved]. It would be a smaller car lighter and brace yourself ...a V6 and 4 cylinder. We all are going to have to deal with the fact that the V8 is at a end accept for some trucks, Cadillac and the Corvette. Even Ford is backing away form the V8 in most models and embracing turbo Sixes to the tune of 340 HP.

Unless the goverment backs off the line up for most GM cars will be V6 or 4 cylinder. Now that is not to say we will not have fun cars to drive. You may very well see 400+ HP out of 3.6 turbo's and the like. Performance will not die it just will come in new packages.
I think a lot of folks are acting like the new CAFE law is cast in stone. It's not. It will be a major function of geopolitical trends, and politics at home. Americans are just now starting to realize the long-term impacts of failing to invest in refineries, in nuclear power plants, and in domestic oil drilling. Once the real impacts of this absurd and unrealistic new CAFE starts hitting home, I'll bet there will be a lot of pressure on Congress to repeal or heavily revise it.

I'll also go out on a limb and predict, within 5-10 years, we will have a new oil-rich Mideastern ally, and the man-made global warming hoax will be fully revealed.

CAFE has nothing to do with global warming, it is for national security reasons.

Also, there's a high probablity that high gas prices will make it moot anyway.

I'll also go out on a limb and predict, within 5-10 years, we will have a new oil-rich Mideastern ally, and the man-made global warming hoax will be fully revealed.

God I hope so. I'm sick of hearing about it. The FRIGGIN NOBEL PEACE PRIZE????? What a joke.

Anyone else think that there's a problem a la Ste. Therese if Camaro is the only car produced in Oshawa?

That plant has the capacity to build more than half a million cars per year. Producing the Camaro, which at most is going to hit 250,000 (if they're lucky) represents a SEVERE amount of underproduction going on at that plant.