Bye-Bye to GM's V-8s

I saw this article on the Car and Driver website today, and though it might be of interest.

http://www.caranddriver.com/carnews/14532/bye-bye-to-gms-v-8s.html?al=104


Could this mean a turbo six for the Z28?

Just thought I'd start a fire:D

They might be able to eventually duplicate the power of a v8 with a hi-tech V6 but a muscle car just wont cut it without the sound of a V8.

Yeah horsepower-wise it might be ok, i mean a new CTS with a 300 horse V6 has more power than my LT1

A V6 definately wouldnt give the same torque as a V8 with out a turbo or supercharger.

But the V8 sound is a must. I dont want people mistaking my Camaro for a civic

Like ive always said ....


Theres NOTHING like the sound of a cammed V8 !

I saw this article on the Car and Driver website today, and though it might be of interest.

http://www.caranddriver.com/carnews/14532/bye-bye-to-gms-v-8s.html?al=104


Could this mean a turbo six for the Z28?

Just thought I'd start a fire:D

Well I think its an interesting idea but as many know from full size trucks a v8 does not mean less gas mileage. The v8 does not have to work as hard to move the vehicle and the gains are not much. In a performance car like the Camaro where speed and performance are part of the pedigree Chevy wouldnt think of dropping the v8. Not to mention big brother, Vette will have a v8 until cars fly and thus there will always be a performance v8 in the lineup the Camaro can use.

This idea overall is as silly as Ford dropping the Mustang for the fed Probe...

Yeah horsepower-wise it might be ok, i mean a new CTS with a 300 horse V6 has more power than my LT1

even my I6 (in my Trailblazer) has 275hp....that doesn't mean I want one in my Camaro.

this "modern world where fuel-efficiency and emissions standards are redefining the cars and trucks of tomorrow." SUCKS.

Lighten up guys. While meeting future emission standards will be difficult, this news only applies to Cadillac and the twin overhead cam Northstar replacement which was being developed for SUVs and large sedans.

Camaro will continue to have a V8 option and with AFM, I'm not convinced a V6 would be any more efficient than a V8. If however GM decides to eliminate the V8 altogether, perhaps we'd be better off if the Camaro were killed for good.

Lighten up guys. While meeting future emission standards will be difficult, this news only applies to Cadillac and the twin overhead cam Northstar replacement which was being developed for SUVs and large sedans.

Thanks for clearing that up, the specifics are sorta lost in the sauce of the writing. I missed it myself.

“So we’re going to see a lot of engine downsizing,” Lutz tells Car and Driver. “What has been V-8 will become V-6, and what was V-6 will become fours. That is a relatively inexpensive ($1500–$2000) solution.” Even with the investment, “it will not get you from 25 mpg to 35 mpg. It will get you part way there.”

Many existing V-8s will remain, Lutz says, “but I don’t see anybody investing a ton of money into families of all-new V-8s.”

I don't know, it sounds like a whole GM scale-back to me.

Hopefully the LS family will continue to grow, but I don't know why they would cut out high tech quad cam engines instead of pushrod

Every time someone like Lutz says something the words get taken out of context. For example, I don't think that GM will be able to make a full-size work truck without a V8 engine.

I guess I am trying to say that I won't think the sky is falling until it actually lands on me. I apply this to anything automotive, especially the Camaro.

There's constant doom and gloom when everything comes about. Take a look at the Z06 and look at the gas mileage it gets. It's almost as good as my 1997 V6 Camaro, which is rated at 17/27 (At least, the paperwork says that, I'm getting much better) With AFM, we'll still have V8 power with better fuel economy. Gas guzzling SUVs such as my old 1992 Ford Exploder however... Well, no need to go into depth on that.

What's the line Scott always preaches? "Have Faith"

Keep in mind guys, GM has a new more efficient 4.5L diesel V8 on the horizon. Its very likely it will replace the mid-range gas powered V8s in trucks and SUVs at some point, while bigger V6s are used for the entry level low-end versions.

I saw this article on the Car and Driver website today, and though it might be of interest.

http://www.caranddriver.com/carnews/14532/bye-bye-to-gms-v-8s.html?al=104


Could this mean a turbo six for the Z28?

Just thought I'd start a fire:D

As I’ve speculated before, it would explain the “two v6s and one v8 at launch” story we’ve heard.

A tuned 4.0 version 3.6 DI v6 should at least match the 340 hp that the 5.7 Hemi that the Challenger R/T will probably get (the one the Charger R/T has).

I’m more a sports car guy who wants a back seat than a muscle car guy, so I may be in a pretty small minority. But give the choice between an L76 and a 3.0-3.2L twin turbo DI v6 that made similar power, I would take the v6. I think the v6 would offer lighter weight, better mileage and a power curve that would probably make the six-speed more interesting.

It might not burble right at a red light, but it would go like stink & make serious gains from mods (judging by the Sky/Sol twins & the BMW 335).

As I’ve speculated before, it would explain the “two v6s and one v8 at launch” story we’ve heard. The story in question has nothing to do with Camaro.

No way would I ever buy a V6. I have had way too many crappy V6's. I would rather have a 4 banger. I would like an "extra" button that would run only 4 cylinders except with the "extra" button is press then it is a V8. But no way would I ever own a V6 Camaro. I don't car if I bought a new car and put in a V8 create engine.

Last year, Ford kicked off the light-duty diesel scramble when it said it would build a diesel F-150 in the not-too-distant future. Now GM has joined the fray, with plans to shoehorn a 4.5-liter diesel V-8 under the hoods of the Hummer H2 and light-duty 1500 versions of the GMC Sierra and Chevy Silverado. Expect them to arrive around 2010.

With space constraints dictated by its current lineup of pushrod gasoline engines, GM had to fit a square peg into a round hole, so to speak. The Duramax turbo-diesel sports a few space-saving tricks — among them exhaust portals that exit into the center of the "V," not to the outside, as normally happens. The General says the engine will produce more than 310 hp and 520 pounds-feet of torque. Compare that to the chestiest gas V-8 in the Sierra 1500, which makes 400 hp and 415 pounds-feet of torque. Towing capacity will likely increase measurably over the Silverado and Sierra’s 10,500-pound maximum.

With decreased carbon dioxide and nitrogen oxide emissions, GM expects the Duramax to meet stringent emissions standards in all 50 states. Fuel efficiency should be up 25 percent versus a comparable gasoline engine, GM powertrain spokesman Tom Read said. We couldn't find a gasoline V-8 in GM's truck lineup that makes anywhere near 520 pounds-feet of torque, though, so we can't predict any mpg.

Source: GM

GM's supposed to be buying 1/2 of VM Motori to develop the 2.9-liter turbo diesel that will be used in the Cadillac CTS for European applications, at first anyways, maybe here later....... (250 hp, coming in ’09)
VM Motori diesels (produces four-cylinder diesels from 140 to 160 hp)

The thing is a lot of V-6's don't seem to get much better gas mileage than the V-8s. I also don't see the likes of BMW or Mercedes talking about dropping V-8's. It's sad, because V-6
s don't feel the same, but all you have to do is look at the current Motor Trend where they test the Malibu, Accord, Camry and Altima, and they mention that they're all faster than the sports cars they test 20 years ago, including the IROC and testarossa! 6.4 seconds to 60 in a V-6 sedan!

The thing is a lot of V-6's don't seem to get much better gas mileage than the V-8s. I also don't see the likes of BMW or Mercedes talking about dropping V-8's. It's sad, because V-6
s don't feel the same, but all you have to do is look at the current Motor Trend where they test the Malibu, Accord, Camry and Altima, and they mention that they're all faster than the sports cars they test 20 years ago, including the IROC and testarossa! 6.4 seconds to 60 in a V-6 sedan!


Generally speaking, modern V6 engines really do provide better performance than V8s of 20 years ago...... Case in point:

A 1984 Chevy Camaro Z28 5.0 4bbl Carb (with the 4 speed stick) had a 0-60 time of just under 8 seconds. The 2008 Malibu with the 3.6 VVT and 6 speed AUTOMATIC has a 0-60 of a hair over 6 seconds.

Yes, a modern Malibu sedan would embarass someone driving a mid-80's Camaro Z28. But it's not just the engine technology..... modern cars have better aerodynamics, since there's less wind resistance more of the car's available power is used to actually propell the car instead of pushing and fighting the air. Modern cars have larger diameter tires with lighter weight rims, lighter suspension components, and while the gross weight of the car may be about the same with airbags and all sorts of modern electronic toys that just weren't fathomable 20 years ago, the unsprung weight has been reduced substantially and that DOES make a difference.

BMW and Mercedes aren't going to stop making V8s because their clientelle will pay for those cars no matter what gas costs and no matter what they charge for them. They may add a CAFE fee to them like the gas guzzler tax. But rest assured, the day Mercedes quits making a V8 for the S-Class is the day they quit making cars period.

No way GM is going to produce a Corvette wtih a v6 under its hood as a standard, All The corvette guys & us we leave GM & it will be the death of them.

Plus the trucks, Tehy have many trucks that have a V8 in them.

I’m more a sports car guy who wants a back seat than a muscle car guy, so I may be in a pretty small minority. But give the choice between an L76 and a 3.0-3.2L twin turbo DI v6 that made similar power, I would take the v6. I think the v6 would offer lighter weight, better mileage and a power curve that would probably make the six-speed more interesting.

Do you really think a twin turbo V6 will be much lighter than a V8? After intercooler(s), turbos, and piping I doubt you would save a lot of weight, you might even end up heavier a few pounds.

No way GM is going to produce a Corvette wtih a v6 under its hood as a standard, All The corvette guys & us we leave GM & it will be the death of them.

They've done it before.;)

Oh god I nearly died of a heart attack after I read that, No V8?!? Good thing it's only for Caddilacs...

They've done it before.;)

Yea but taht was like 40yrs ago when were were in the middle of a gas wars.

Yea but taht was like 40yrs ago when were were in the middle of a gas wars.

No, even then they had a V8 (albeit a weak one). However, the first 2 years of the vette it was only available with a V6.:)

In their defense, the SBC hadn't been invented yet.;)

Yea but taht was like 40yrs ago when were were in the middle of a gas wars.

:leaving:

My 99 GTP has the 3.8 s.c w/the stk.exhaust,etc and it just doesn,t have that v-8 sound,and even w/aftermarket exhaust can,t compare!Love that V8 sound of my 94 and 79Z28.

No, even then they had a V8 (albeit a weak one). However, the first 2 years of the vette it was only available with a V6.:)

In their defense, the SBC hadn't been invented yet.;)

Sorry, no V6 back then, it was an inline six!
Clyde

You can't have a Corvette, Camaro, or full size work duty truck without a V8. You need torque to haul ass. :p

"The ubiquitous V-8 engine under the hood of full-size SUVs and big cars could go the way of the eight-track tape deck in a modern world where fuel-efficiency and emissions standards are redefining the cars and trucks of tomorrow."

I agree with gripenfelter theres no possible way that you could have sports cars or trucks with all V-6's, its just impossible, people would refuse to buy sports cars because they dont get that sense of speed that you get with a V-8.

if they were gonna have V-6's in sports cars then they still better find a way to have them get up to 500 hp :)

I'm perfectly fine with V-6 sports cars....the VQ engines that nissan makes are great and they have a very interesting rasp to them. It's not a v-8 rumble, but they sound nice. Look up some youtube videos of people that have twin turbo'd their Z cars. They're pretty awesome, and they hold the boost really well.

For the camaro? No. It doesn't fit. Make a new sports coupe and use a 6. Camaro can stick around for this current generation and then they can decide what to do with it. I'd like it to be downsized for the next generation, lose 500 pounds, and come with some kind of downsized smallblock v-8. less than 5 liters, high compression ratio/rev limit...still a pony car but no longer a muscle car. :)

well theres nothing like the sound of a v-8 :D

and you know 30 years down the road all these new V-8 mustang, camaros, and challengers are gonna auction for ALOT more than a V-6 would.

The main problem I see when you compare V6 to V8 in a car, is the transmission.

I also read about it once on here.

Basically the transmission is setup for the v8, and the V6 with those gear ratios is just pure weak, even if you change rear gears, it doesn't make up for it. Maybe we'll see better transmissions design specifically for V6 engines.

In something like the Camaro, The V6 doesn't make that big of a difference in terms of gas mileage. My v6 camaro gets about 35 mpg or so and i've seen plenty of Z28s that get about 30. and those are 12 year old cars. If those camaros had todays technology then they would probably be getting better gas mileage. And like someone else said the V8s will never leave the truck. you think Toyota is gonna take their 5.7L out of the tundra? hell no. and as long as they don't give it up neither will GM or Ford or Dodge or Nissan cause all of them won't be able to compete if they did.

Oh and they need to drop the inline 6 before they drop the V8 if they're worried about gas. especially in SUVs inline 6s are horrible on gas, worse than the V8s. Inline 6s are good for midrange power but that's about it

Sorry, no V6 back then, it was an inline six!
Clyde

You are correct, my mistake.:)

To all those who say a 6 cyl won't cut it because of a lack of torque, tell that to the guy driving this:

http://www.achmac.com/images/truck721a.jpg

The number of cylinders does not make the torque, displacement does. Give me a 6 liter straight-6 and I'll show you some torque.:D

even if you change rear gears, it doesn't make up for it. Maybe we'll see better transmissions design specifically for V6 engines.

I dunno about that, but when your limited on torque I can see how having a transmission with a few more ratios added in would help.

Man people really still read car & drivel.....

I think we'll still have V8s. We'll just see more hybrid V8s.

long ago, i talked to Scott about an "import beater" built from readily GM Parts.

put a V6 (i think the year 2000 V6 had ~225HP?) and a T56 in a Cavalier with 4:10 gears.

i think that would be a ROCKET. the V6 would make enough HP/TQ for the light weight of a Cavalier,

and the 4:10 gears would ensure the V6 could dig out of the hole, and keep moving on top end to a high MPH

and a M6, well, is just the funnest transmission there is.

i think that would put the import/tuner/ricer world on it's ear.

a light weight RWD car with world class potential

and the aftermarket would go crazy.

who would be the first to twin turbo one?

the inline 6 cylinder Cummins Turbo Diesel in your average dodge pick'em'up makes 325/610 stock,

and with a intake, exhaust, programmer & nitrous, will do 500/1000 all day long.

Hmmmmmmmmm. I dont mind the high power V-6 option in a camaro, but that is like finding out that the girl of your dreams had been stuffing her bra and is not the doube Ds you wish you had.

long ago, i talked to Scott about an "import beater" built from readily GM Parts.

put a V6 (i think the year 2000 V6 had ~225HP?) and a T56 in a Cavalier with 4:10 gears.

i think that would be a ROCKET.

Already been done... it's called a Ford Falcon XR6 Turbo.

T56 6-speed, turbo 4.0L V6, RWD, sedan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Falcon_XR6_Turbo

Of course this one's over 380hp and a bit larger...

Hey steve havent see you in a while.

long ago, i talked to Scott about an "import beater" built from readily GM Parts.
Already have some for over a year...

2007 Pontiac Solstice GXP - Road Tests
BY DAVE VANDERWERP, PHOTOGRAPHY BY MORGAN J. SEGAL
October 2006 C&D
"This 2007 Solstice, and also the mechanically similar Saturn Sky Red Line, packs a punch of 260 horsepower and 260 pound-feet of torque from a direct-injection turbocharged and intercooled 2.0-liter version of GM’s four-cylinder Ecotec. Yes, the stodgy General is introducing its first gasoline direct-injection turbo at the same time as BMW. Shocked"?
And now the Cobalt SS will join them with a 260hp, turbo 4, from what I understand.....a triple threat! :cool:

Already have some for over a year...


And now the Cobalt SS will join them with a 260hp, turbo 4, from what I understand.....a triple threat! :cool:

And the HHR SS makes four unless I missed some news. But didn't the FWDs get a slight de-tune (5-15 HP)?

The original small block lasted how many years?

So they dropped the luxury DOHC V8, that does not mean they won't invest something into the Northstar maybe Direct Injection, Variable cams, etc.

I think they need to fix how they spend their money. For one, they need to pay some lobbyists to get Universal Health care passed. There is about 1800 per car right there. You can pay your execs millions of dollars each, pay me a few mill and I will go bug the hell out of those bastards. Drop the huge ad campaigns and go for something more unique. Then, they need to lobby the government to sponsor research into inexpensive lighter and stronger materials. Research ways to make new materials like composites or those new "foam" metals less expensive.



A 1983 Ford Escort wagon would get 54 MPG. Look at the weight of that car VS a 2008 Ford Focus. There's your problem.

back closer to topic,

My hope is the Camaro will get the 300+ HP V6. My concern is the car will be heavy, making 300 not enough to make it quicker than a 05-09 Mustang GT right off the lot.