LSA is here....feeling of power is instant, strong and sustained.....................

2001Firehawk
01-08-2008, 02:04 PM
LSA is here....feeling of power is instant, strong and sustained.....................

HMM.. MAYBE THE NEW Z28 POWER PLANT.....

For release: Jan. 14, 2008, 12:01 a.m. EST

ALL-NEW CTS-V TARGETS 550 SUPERCHARGED HORSEPOWER WITH CADILLAC’S SIGNATURE REFINEMENT
DETROIT – The all-new, 2009 Cadillac CTS-V blends exceptional performance with uncompromising refinement and its unique, 6.2L supercharged V-8 engine is, perhaps, the most dramatic example of the performance sedan’s world-class comportment.

Targeting 550 horsepower (410 kW) and 550 lb.-ft. of torque (745 Nm) – final SAE certified power levels will be available in early April 2008 – the CTS-V’s new LSA engine will be the most powerful ever offered in Cadillac’s nearly 106-year history. It is based on GM’s legendary small-block V-8 architecture and features an intercooled supercharger system, premium heat-resistant aluminum-alloy cylinder heads and numerous details designed to ensure the LSA makes its power as quietly and smoothly as possible.

“From the very start, engineers were cognizant of the role a high-performance engine plays in supporting the qualities customers expect in a Cadillac,” said Jim Taylor, Cadillac general manager. “The supercharged LSA engine delivers outstanding performance, but maximum power didn’t come at the expense of refinement or quietness.”

To achieve the desired balance between performance and drivability, the LSA was designed with numerous features and components that attenuate noise, including the supercharger. It has a new, four-lobe rotor design that enhances quietness while also optimizing the performance parameters of the engine.

A pair of six-speed transmissions is offered with the LSA: A new, Tremec TR6060 six-speed manual with a dual-disc clutch; and a Hydra-Matic 6L90 six-speed automatic with paddle-shift control – the first automatic offered in the CTS-V. Each transmission is designed to channel the engine’s tremendous power while simultaneously delivering exceptional refinement and smoothness.

Supercharged power and superior refinement

Delivering more than merely milestone power numbers, the LSA engine’s sixth-generation Eaton supercharger enables a broader range of power through the rpm band. This gives the engine great low-end torque and excellent horsepower at higher rpm – the range of the rpm band where a supercharger generally loses its effectiveness.

“The new design of the supercharger’s rotating internal components extends its effective range, giving the engine a wide, flat power band that is usable at all rpm levels,” said Ron Meegan, assistant chief engineer. “Whether at low speeds or on the highway, the

feeling of power is instant, strong and sustained.”

An intercooler mounted atop the engine sends the supercharger’s pressurized air through a heat exchanger to lower its temperature before entering the engine’s intake system. The cooler air is denser, helping the engine maximize performance.

Complementing the LSA’s tremendous output is a combination of components and design elements designed to ensure a quiet, refined driving experience. Examples include:

Balanced, lightweight reciprocating assembly
Hypereutectic pistons
Lower-lift, low overlap camshaft
Center-feed fuel system
Acoustic engine cover
Piston oil squirters
The new, four-lobe rotor design of the sixth-generation Eaton supercharger also contributes significantly to the LSA’s quiet performance. In fact, the quiet operation of the supercharger system fooled several onlookers during the CTS-V’s development – onlookers who were convinced that a prototype running at wide-open throttle on Germany’s famed Nürburgring racing circuit couldn’t possibly have a supercharger because there was no audible sound from the drive system.

“The characteristic whine of the supercharger is drastically reduced because of the LSA’s four-lobe rotor design,” said Meegan. “And with the other noise-reduction features used throughout, the sound is virtually eliminated.”

Transmission details

The new TR6060 transmission is based on the proven T56 six-speed used in the previous CTS-V, but upgraded to handle the LSA engine’s substantial increase in torque, as well as improve shift quality, via a dual-disc clutch system.

The twin-disc clutch delivers exceptional clamping power and excellent shift effort, achieved with the use of a pair of smaller-diameter clutch discs that have less inertia than a single, larger-diameter disc. Like the previous CTS-V, a dual-mass flywheel is used, which allows for smooth, chatter-free performance.

When it comes to the new automatic transmission, GM’s Hydra-Matic 6L90 six-speed automatic transmission features steering-wheel- and console-shifter-activated tap up/tap down gear control, as well as driver-selectable modes that deliver different performance characteristics, i.e. shift points, shift firmness, for different driving conditions. Performance Algorithm Shifting is part of the 6L90’s controller programming and provides a performance-oriented shift pattern during sustained high-performance driving, such as at a racetrack.

A twin-plate torque converter clutch is used with the 6L90 transmission to match the torque output of the LSA engine – the first twin-plate configuration used with GM’s 300-mm torque converter. Like the dual-disc clutch of the six-speed manual transmission, the twin-plate converter clutch provides exceptional clamping power.

New, Performance Traction Management technology works with the CTS-V’s engine and transmissions to optimize traction and maximize the performance driving experience.
__________________

tireburnin
01-08-2008, 02:15 PM
Terrible piston choice. Means no big boost on the stock bottom end.

POWERFREAK
01-08-2008, 03:40 PM
Yeah...I'll take one of those in my Camaro pleeeeeeeeease.

I agree about the pistons, although maybe these are a better design...maybe the Piston oil squirters will help.

jg95z28
01-08-2008, 03:40 PM
We've already discussed this here, haven't we?

LS9 = ZR1
LSA = CTS-V
LS8 = Z28

graham
01-08-2008, 03:41 PM
Terrible piston choice. Means no big boost on the stock bottom end.

A car like a Camaro might get a more noisy forged piston, where a Caddy can't have a rattle-prone piston.

POWERFREAK
01-08-2008, 04:49 PM
We've already discussed this here, haven't we?

LS9 = ZR1
LSA = CTS-V
LS8 = Z28

oh...OK, if I have to "settle" for an LS8...that's OK.:rolleyes:

cmg06s
01-08-2008, 07:35 PM
What is the LS8, and does anyone know how much power the six speed auto can handle?

POWERFREAK
01-08-2008, 08:02 PM
What is the LS8, and does anyone know how much power the six speed auto can handle?

here's some LS8 info (But I wouldn't exactly call it official)
http://www.leftlanenews.com/a-detailed-look-at-gms-ls-motor-plans.html

Dragoneye
01-08-2008, 09:32 PM
here's some LS8 info (But I wouldn't exactly call it official)
http://www.leftlanenews.com/a-detailed-look-at-gms-ls-motor-plans.html

:lol: It seems they've been right so far, yeah?;)

91Z28350
01-09-2008, 02:55 AM
I really hope that the LS-8 has higher than 475 HP, the extra weight of the SC and cooling would make it far less attractive for the additional cost.

95firehawk
01-09-2008, 09:04 AM
That really concerns me that they went with hypereutectic pistons. It's a shame to handicap an engine of this magnitude. As stated above maybe the squirters will let the pistons see more boost. Even so I can't see anyone being able to put but maybe 3 or 4 lbs over stock. I also don't see the LS8 getting forged pistons since the LSA is higher up on the food chain. I guess only time will tell though.

jg95z28
01-09-2008, 12:15 PM
That really concerns me that they went with hypereutectic pistons. It's a shame to handicap an engine of this magnitude. As stated above maybe the squirters will let the pistons see more boost. Even so I can't see anyone being able to put but maybe 3 or 4 lbs over stock. I also don't see the LS8 getting forged pistons since the LSA is higher up on the food chain. I guess only time will tell though.You may be right, however I look at it this way...

GM knows the typical Cadillac buyer is someone with a little more money to spend, that wants luxury and class. The typical CTS-v buyer then wants a luxury car that performs well. They are less likely to wrench on their car themselves; more likely to leave it stock; and are more likely to opt for an extended warranty and have their dealer service their car. Therefore there is no real need to go exotic on parts.

The typical "performance" Camaro buyer is more likely to be an enthusiast that does work on his/her cars; more likely to tweak it for optimal performance or add performance parts to it; less likely to buy the extended warranty; etc. Knowing this, it would be suicide for GM to offer up a drivetrain that was weak from a durability standpoint on their topdog Camaro. GM knows this. While I wouldn't be surprised to see the LS8 (if that is the motor destined for the Z28) get hypereutectic pistons; I would expect that GM engineers have tested it for beyond stock boost levels and any other low-cost improvements enthusiasts would typically make to such an engine. Otherwise they'd be shooting themselves in the foot. However, I will hold out hope that it gets forged pistons and ends up being basically an LS9 with a different pulley and more restrictive exhaust. :D

JakeRobb
01-09-2008, 12:25 PM
What is the LS8, and does anyone know how much power the six speed auto can handle?

There are a couple different versions of the six-speed auto. The 6L80 is used in the Corvette and has no trouble with LS3 power. There's also a 6L90, which is used in the gas-engine HD trucks. Suffice it to say, it handles a good bit of power. :D

Z284ever
01-09-2008, 12:44 PM
GM knows the typical Cadillac buyer is someone with a little more money to spend, that wants luxury and class. The typical CTS-v buyer then wants a luxury car that performs well. They are less likely to wrench on their car themselves; more likely to leave it stock; and are more likely to opt for an extended warranty and have their dealer service their car. Therefore there is no real need to go exotic on parts.



The CTS-V guys on Cadillacforums do alot of mods to their cars, drive them hard and road race them quite abit.

If the new V has the same buyers as the old V, it gonna get modded and run hard.

95firehawk
01-09-2008, 12:59 PM
You may be right, however I look at it this way...

GM knows the typical Cadillac buyer is someone with a little more money to spend, that wants luxury and class. The typical CTS-v buyer then wants a luxury car that performs well. They are less likely to wrench on their car themselves; more likely to leave it stock; and are more likely to opt for an extended warranty and have their dealer service their car. Therefore there is no real need to go exotic on parts.

The typical "performance" Camaro buyer is more likely to be an enthusiast that does work on his/her cars; more likely to tweak it for optimal performance or add performance parts to it; less likely to buy the extended warranty; etc. Knowing this, it would be suicide for GM to offer up a drivetrain that was weak from a durability standpoint on their topdog Camaro. GM knows this. While I wouldn't be surprised to see the LS8 (if that is the motor destined for the Z28) get hypereutectic pistons; I would expect that GM engineers have tested it for beyond stock boost levels and any other low-cost improvements enthusiasts would typically make to such an engine. Otherwise they'd be shooting themselves in the foot. However, I will hold out hope that it gets forged pistons and ends up being basically an LS9 with a different pulley and more restrictive exhaust. :D

Man I sure hope so!:D

JakeRobb
01-09-2008, 02:16 PM
The CTS-V guys on Cadillacforums do alot of mods to their cars, drive them hard and road race them quite abit.

I wonder what percentage of CTS-V owners are members of those forums.

I also wonder what percentage of those members have modified and raced their cars.

graham
01-09-2008, 02:18 PM
I bet the rear differential in that 4300lb+ car with 550lbs of torque will go WAY before the pistons :D

95firehawk
01-09-2008, 03:26 PM
I bet the rear differential in that 4300lb+ car with 550lbs of torque will go WAY before the pistons :D

+1 on that!:D

BTW, are the pistons in the Sostice GXP forged or hypereutectic? I know those engines have the piston squirters. Maybe that could shed some light as on durability as well.

Dragoneye
01-09-2008, 03:35 PM
BTW, are the pistons in the Sostice GXP forged or hypereutectic? I know those engines have the piston squirters. Maybe that could shed some light as on durability as well.

They're cast. According to GM.:p

95firehawk
01-09-2008, 03:53 PM
:shock:..................:D

jg95z28
01-09-2008, 05:20 PM
The CTS-V guys on Cadillacforums do alot of mods to their cars, drive them hard and road race them quite abit.

If the new V has the same buyers as the old V, it gonna get modded and run hard.

I wonder what percentage of CTS-V owners are members of those forums.

I also wonder what percentage of those members have modified and raced their cars.

Most people that spend the time on the internet on one of these enthusiast websites is going to wrench on their own cars. Therefore using members of Cadillacforums.com who own CTS-Vs (or CamaroZ28.com who own Camaros) as a guage of the % of owners that work on their own cars is going to be abnormally high, and therefore not an accurate number I'd want to hang my hat on.

JakeRobb
01-09-2008, 05:29 PM
Most people that spend the time on the internet on one of these enthusiast websites is going to wrench on their own cars. Therefore using members of Cadillacforums.com who own CTS-Vs (or CamaroZ28.com who own Camaros) as a guage of the % of owners that work on their own cars is going to be abnormally high, and therefore not an accurate number I'd want to hang my hat on.

I wasn't going to use the % of modders on the forum to extrapolate the total # of modders based on the total # of owners. I was going to use the two %'s together to point out how small the number of modders is in relation to the # of owners.

jg95z28
01-09-2008, 05:35 PM
I wasn't going to use the % of modders on the forum to extrapolate the total # of modders based on the total # of owners. I was going to use the two %'s together to point out how small the number of modders is in relation to the # of owners.I figured that. I was quoting you in agreement and to help prove my point. :D

jdhommert
01-11-2008, 02:56 AM
Why anybody would put hyperutectic pistons in a engine with a blower on it is beyond me. They are going to piss off a LOT of people if the Camaro doesn't get forged pistons.

90rocz
01-13-2008, 12:16 AM
The hyperutectics are harder than cast, more silicon, but prone to cracking under boost/detenation, cast on the other hand just burns through tho...forged is best for big boost motors...oiling's not a big issue.
Usually starts loosing top ring land pieces at higher boost levels...but if they located the top ring down a bit, it should hold up pretty good.

blue 79 Z/28
01-15-2008, 03:07 PM
forged pistons are so cheap, add 400 dollars to the car then lol

Z284ever
01-15-2008, 10:10 PM
I was reading somewhere that the LSA is pretty much maxed out at 550 hp, with it's steel rods and hyperurectic pistons. Crank it up much more than that, and you'll need a shovel and a magnet to pick up the pieces.

The LS9, as you all remember, has titanium rods and forged pistons.

blue 79 Z/28
01-15-2008, 10:34 PM
leave it to gm to drop the ball if thats true, the one thing i really liked about those terminator motors ford made was they had beef and could take mods.

TrickStang37
01-15-2008, 10:42 PM
forged pistons are so cheap, add 400 dollars to the car then lol

its not just adding $$ to the car for the pistons. also, the rods may as well be upgraded too. and this is assuming thats a forged crank in there. and what material is the block?

but more importantly, the hyper pistons do better in the smog department.

Z284ever
01-16-2008, 10:21 AM
leave it to gm to drop the ball if thats true, the one thing i really liked about those terminator motors ford made was they had beef and could take mods.


I don't think they dropped the ball - I mean WTF, it's FIVEHUNDREDFIFTYHORSEPOWER!!!!! :eek:

jg95z28
01-16-2008, 11:49 AM
I was reading somewhere that the LSA is pretty much maxed out at 550 hp, with it's steel rods and hyperurectic pistons. Crank it up much more than that, and you'll need a shovel and a magnet to pick up the pieces.

The LS9, as you all remember, has titanium rods and forged pistons.
Which is why GM would be crazy to put an LSA in the Camaro. Perhaps something in between the LSA and LS9 is required. :D

Gripenfelter
01-16-2008, 12:16 PM
A pair of six-speed transmissions is offered with the LSA: A new, Tremec TR6060 six-speed manual with a dual-disc clutch; and a Hydra-Matic 6L90 six-speed automatic with paddle-shift control

YES!!

I would be VERY interested to see what the drag test and auto-x results are with the auto tranny and paddle shifters.

Gripenfelter
01-16-2008, 12:31 PM
The reason they went hypereutectic was probably to keep people from upping the boost and blowing their motor. Cost probably wasn't the biggest concern. They probably wanted to keep the motors reliable. Once its off warranty I'm sure a lot of people looking to go for higher boost will switch pistons.

JakeRobb
01-16-2008, 01:28 PM
The reason they went hypereutectic was probably to keep people from upping the boost and blowing their motor.

People are still going to up the boost. Hypereutectic pistons are a way to guarantee that they blow their motor.

90rocz
01-17-2008, 11:02 PM
Even with modest boost levels, over 500hp is really pushing Hyperutectics. We used to build motors with'em and usually went forged with anything north of 450Hp...that is if you want reliability.
Maybe they're processing has improved a lot??
Heat coatings might help'em a little...

blue 79 Z/28
01-18-2008, 01:17 PM
I don't think they dropped the ball - I mean WTF, it's FIVEHUNDREDFIFTYHORSEPOWER!!!!! :eek:yea and 4.6L cobras and 5.4L gt500's are making 700+ rwhp on stock short blocks in street trim. there are only 2 people that buy a supercharged muscle car. people who leave them stock and people looking to mod the crap out of them.(willing to bet the mod part is larger) the purpose of spending the extra 10 grand on it is to make way more hp if you wish. its all in the details and unfortunately gm doesnt know what details are. caddy is about being quiet. but they better not make a time bomb bottom end if they plan on boosting a camaro, ford guys will just laugh at us when we all blow up from trying to compete with them.:(

Z284ever
01-18-2008, 01:50 PM
yea and 4.6L cobras and 5.4L gt500's are making 700+ rwhp on stock short blocks in street trim. there are only 2 people that buy a supercharged muscle car. people who leave them stock and people looking to mod the crap out of them.(willing to bet the mod part is larger) the purpose of spending the extra 10 grand on it is to make way more hp if you wish. its all in the details and unfortunately gm doesnt know what details are. caddy is about being quiet. but they better not make a time bomb bottom end if they plan on boosting a camaro, ford guys will just laugh at us when we all blow up from trying to compete with them.:(


Are those 700 horse behemouths fast....or do they struggle to get into the elevens? And if they go any faster than that, how many runs before they grenade drivelines.

Just like fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life....neither is huge weight plus huge power. The whole thing just bores me.....

TrickStang37
01-18-2008, 03:21 PM
Are those 700 horse behemouths fast....or do they struggle to get into the elevens? And if they go any faster than that, how many runs before they grenade drivelines.

Just like fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life....neither is huge weight plus huge power. The whole thing just bores me.....

Those 700 horse bahemouths are fast. The drivelines seem to hold up fine, but anything with 700+ hp is going to have driveline issues when abused. Nothing is truely bulletproof.

As for weight, there isnt all that much that can be done with rising standards and keeping prices competetive.

FS3800
01-18-2008, 03:26 PM
there are only 2 people that buy a supercharged muscle car. people who leave them stock and people looking to mod the crap out of them.(willing to bet the mod part is larger)

i'm willing to bet that most people who get the CTS-V will be plenty happy with the power it produces out of the box

jg95z28
01-18-2008, 03:38 PM
fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life....Great movie! :D

blue 79 Z/28
01-19-2008, 06:15 AM
i'm willing to bet that most people who get the CTS-V will be plenty happy with the power it produces out of the boxprolly right, but a camaro, i doubt. especially with all the competition with fords proven powerplants

blue 79 Z/28
01-19-2008, 06:18 AM
Are those 700 horse behemouths fast....or do they struggle to get into the elevens? And if they go any faster than that, how many runs before they grenade drivelines.

Just like fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life....neither is huge weight plus huge power. The whole thing just bores me.....next time you see a 03-04 KB charged cobra on the road, you better have drag radials, a full bolt on LS1, and a 200 shot to stay with it....

RussStang
01-19-2008, 06:55 AM
yea and 4.6L cobras and 5.4L gt500's are making 700+ rwhp on stock short blocks in street trim. there are only 2 people that buy a supercharged muscle car. people who leave them stock and people looking to mod the crap out of them.(willing to bet the mod part is larger) the purpose of spending the extra 10 grand on it is to make way more hp if you wish. its all in the details and unfortunately gm doesnt know what details are. caddy is about being quiet. but they better not make a time bomb bottom end if they plan on boosting a camaro, ford guys will just laugh at us when we all blow up from trying to compete with them.:(


I would bet large amounts of money against your bet. There will be far more owners who leave their CTS-Vs alone then mod them.

Ron78Z&01SS
01-20-2008, 03:46 AM
Great movie! :D

I'm glad I'm not the only one who caught that reference!! :thumb: