NEWS: Spy Shots: 2009 Chevy Camaro caught - interior too!

I respectfully disagree. The interior of the concept fit PERFECTLY with the concept's exterior. That was one reason the concept drew raves, and got awards. Its entire design (inside and out) were harmonious, and were successful as a modern vision with heritage design elements. IF the production interior is akin to that, it will also be in harmony with what we now know is the production exterior styling. There will always be some buyers who absolutely do not want such an interior... but that hasn't stopped hundreds of thousands of 05+ Mustang buyers from signing the papers....

No problem agreeing to disagree. I do realise that the concept got rave reviews and awards. This happened despite having an interior design that many did not like. I also realize that many liked the interior. It is a very polarizing design. I think there is a much better compromise that can be made that would appeal to a lot more potential buyers than this one that only appeals to some.

Yeah, I'd be happier with the G8s interior as well. The binnacle, steering wheel, center stack, shifter, all of it.

G8 for me too!

http://images.chevyhiperformance.com/featuredvehicles/p123031_large+1969_Chevrolet_Camaro+Interior.jpg

Agreed. I've had several of my cars to a local drag strip. There's no time to sit there, gazing at your voltmeter! If something's wrong with oil pressure, the car's seriously messed up anyway and in need of major repair (and a light will be on somewhere on the dash). This is not 1964! People simply do not monitor oil pressure, volts, not even temps constantly like they used to. It's "nice" to have such gages... but not something people stare at while driving in a spirited fashion. Road, speed, and tach are the big eye magnets... but even speed and tach are not stared at a lot by a good race driver, shifting is often done more by sound and feel than by watching a tach.


Who said anything about the dragstrip?

And for the record, I ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS monitor what is going on with the vital fluids of my car and truck. Whether I'm just running to the store or I'm towing the car to some race 800 miles distant.

Obviously I do not stare at the car's gauges during an autocross run but for sure right after on the way back to grid (if the adrenaline doesn't have me twitching too bad :D) and DEFINITELY if I were on track.

At 120+, I would advise NOT glancing down period. Oh, and I would also strongly advise no 120+, period, unless on a track designed for that speed. Seriously. Unless you like this look :death:. Just MHO.

Yes, that's EXACTLY what I'm talking about..... on a track designed for those speeds... i.e. a road course. Obviously you're not aware that a surprising number of people actually track their cars and they (we) need to be able to monitor the fluids during a 20 minute lapping session.

Who said anything about the dragstrip?

And for the record, I ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS monitor what is going on with the vital fluids of my car and truck. Whether I'm just running to the store or I'm towing the car to some race 800 miles distant.

Obviously I do not stare at the car's gauges during an autocross run but for sure right after on the way back to grid (if the adrenaline doesn't have me twitching too bad :D) and DEFINITELY if I were on track.



Yes, that's EXACTLY what I'm talking about..... on a track designed for those speeds... i.e. a road course. Obviously you're not aware that a surprising number of people actually track their cars and they (we) need to be able to monitor the fluids during a 20 minute lapping session.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that less than 10% of the camaros sold will ever see a track as a brand new car.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that less than 10% of the camaros sold will ever see a track as a brand new car.

Let's say that arbitrary percentage is right. That's still 10K cars per year....


I understand what you're trying to say though and I understand that I'm swimming against the current here but I just find it absolutely ridiculous the gauges were placed where they were.

This mid 60's era ergonomics decision was made solely for sentimental / aesthetic reasons and now we need a redundant DIC or HUD to give the driver this information which drives up the cost and complexity of the vehicle.

I'm pissed because I really want to like this car. I'm pissed because I was / am planning to buy one (and maybe two). I'm pissed because I'm really going to have to look this car over quite thoroughly at the dealer before I order. The purchase / order of my '96 was a slam dunk. I'm pissed because this one should have been as well.

Do they still do that overnight test drive thing?

I completely understand, but you can't please everyone.

I'm assuming 100K cars per year and 60-70% V-6, so of the V-8's I think 10% of the overall percentage would be close (33% of the V-8's???) Heck, even my uncle, who had never driven a car at a track before, took his brand new 1995 Z28 to the track several times. I might take mine once or twice just for fun. I've never done it before either, but I'll probably be so scared I'll never even look at the other gauges, I'll be watching the tree, then the tack, then the finish line :metal:

No problem agreeing to disagree. I do realise that the concept got rave reviews and awards. This happened despite having an interior design that many did not like. I also realize that many liked the interior. It is a very polarizing design. I think there is a much better compromise that can be made that would appeal to a lot more potential buyers than this one that only appeals to some.
A lot of folks also disliked the 05 Mustang interior... yet that car has been a huge success.

I think it's important to judge an interior as a whole, not from dismally inaccurate half-baked internet pix of a car that is not even available yet for sale. It is WAY too early to tell how this interior will work for drivers, and how popular it will be with actual buyers. I'm going to wait and see.

A lot of folks also disliked the 05 Mustang interior... yet that car has been a huge success.

It's a Mustang, it would sell 200k painted lime green with a large spike in place of a drivers seat. They've proved the former.

Let me point out, that when Mustang debuted, it did, and does exist in a vacuum with no direct competition. Now it's got cash on the hood like everything else. Also the interior is more or less inline with everything else Ford has available. Blocky and robot even if with nice materials.

Challenger and Mustang will already be selling once Camaro comes out, and some of GMs more sensible cars, like Malibu, that will be right next to it at the lot, have modern interiors that may have more mass appeal.

It's a Mustang, it would sell 200k painted lime green with a large spike in place of a drivers seat. They've proved the former.

Let me point out, that when Mustang debuted, it did, and does exist in a vacuum with no direct competition. Now it's got cash on the hood like everything else. Also the interior is more or less inline with everything else Ford has available. Blocky and robot even if with nice materials.

Challenger and Mustang will already be selling once Camaro comes out, and some of GMs more sensible cars, like Malibu, that will be right next to it at the lot, have modern interiors that may have more mass appeal.

The Camaro will not have the 'vacuum advantage' the Mustang did... but conversely, the 05+ Mustang will be very long in the tooth, and the 2010+ Mustang will be just coming online, with its own set of risks (what if it's too similar to the 05, to generate new excitement? what if it's too modern for the tastes of Mustang owners? what if it has a bad quality launch? etc).

Challenger - definitely just going to be a niche car. Much moreso than the new Camaro.

I definitely would like to see a different steering wheel.

I understand what you're trying to say though and I understand that I'm swimming against the current here but I just find it absolutely ridiculous the gauges were placed where they were.

This mid 60's era ergonomics decision was made solely for sentimental / aesthetic reasons and now we need a redundant DIC or HUD to give the driver this information which drives up the cost and complexity of the vehicle.

I'm pissed because I really want to like this car. I'm pissed because I was / am planning to buy one (and maybe two). I'm pissed because I'm really going to have to look this car over quite thoroughly at the dealer before I order. The purchase / order of my '96 was a slam dunk. I'm pissed because this one should have been as well.

Do they still do that overnight test drive thing?

The Camaro would have had a DIC whether or not they put those gauges down there. This is 2008 and the car will be a 2010. The gauges OBVIOUSLY aren't located down there for optimal viewing in rush hour. But since every GM car today HAS a DIC, your arguement holds no merit.

GM is not installing a DIC to make up for the gauge placement (and thus, according to your arguement, jacking the price up). They are installing those gauges in that location as a throwback to the original because the DIC is already part of the vehicle operating systems of every car they build and old fashioned analog gauges probably cost GM next to nothing to make and install (hence the price of the car will be affected very little).

The Camaro would have had a DIC whether or not they put those gauges down there. This is 2008 and the car will be a 2010. The gauges OBVIOUSLY aren't located down there for optimal viewing in rush hour. But since every GM car today HAS a DIC, your arguement holds no merit.

No merit? Oh, silly me. Perhaps I need to be more direct and to the point.....



Anything that makes this information more difficult to read at speed is not acceptable in a performance car that will, you know, be driven fast.



Could I scroll through a DIC and obtain the desired info? Sure. Not really feasible when the car and I are "at work" though.

Could the DIC be set up so that the screen will always show some of this information at all times? Sure if it's designed that way, but those electronic screens are much more difficult to read when driving. Ever owned or driven one of the late '80s / early '90s electronic dash cars? I have. They went away for a reason. Once again, this option is not desirable when I'm at speed.

Could this information be projected onto a HUD? Sure but I hate them. Why? I find them to be a distraction. I have found them to be unreliable. And yes, I have lived with one for quite some time now.

The best method to relay important information to the driver of a performance car is a set of clearly marked analog faced gauges located as close to his / her line of sight as possible. Why? These can be read using only the briefest of glances with the least eye movement.

All cars have a DIC? Perhaps. I don't know that for sure but even if this is true, they are not all fully functional. Example: My truck is an LS. That means it is the mid range model. I get none of the information that the LTs or Denalis get. I get an odometer, tripmeter and an hourmeter. That's it. Will we have to spring for a top model if we want to actually read our gauge information while driving?

What need is there for a HUD or DIC if the information is right in front of me? None. Now the car doesn't need it at all. It doesn't have to be there. It doesn't have to be designed in from the outset. The car can be cheaper. The car can be simpler.

Obviously I am going to have to live with this if I decide to buy one. That doesn't mean I'm going to like it. Being able to access gauge information has now become a purchase criteria for me. Imagine that. What year is this again? 2008 you say? :rolleyes:

http://img30.picoodle.com/img/img30/4/1/5/f_interiorPrem_3e7432a.jpg

Still looks ridiculous. And it is NOT because of the console guages. You've got some ugly, ugly gauge pods in front of the steering wheel and some kind of audio/HVAC controls ripped off a Sega Genesis controller. :confused: And besides a few lighter gray/silver trim pieces, it looks very drab. I know it's just a photoshop......

No merit? Oh, silly me. Perhaps I need to be more direct and to the point.....
...

Could this information be projected onto a HUD? Sure but I hate them. Why? I find them to be a distraction. I have found them to be unreliable. And yes, I have lived with one for quite some time now.

The best method to relay important information to the driver of a performance car is a set of clearly marked analog faced gauges located as close to his / her line of sight as possible. Why? These can be read using only the briefest of glances with the least eye movement.

...

What need is there for a HUD or DIC if the information is right in front of me? None. Now the car doesn't need it at all. It doesn't have to be there. It doesn't have to be designed in from the outset. The car can be cheaper. The car can be simpler.

I've had a HUD on my Grand Prix's for ten years no, no failures. They're solid state integrated circuits... really not much there to fail. Distraction? Nonsense. Would the USAF, USN and US Army use HUD's in just about every tactical combat air vehicle if a HUD were a distraction, or did not help pilots in dynamic, urgent life-or-death situations?

HUD's are the wave of the future for automotive telematics. BMW has them now too... it's just a matter of time until they become a mainstream option.

Still looks ridiculous. And it is NOT because of the console guages. You've got some ugly, ugly gauge pods in front of the steering wheel and some kind of audio/HVAC controls ripped off a Sega Genesis controller. :confused: And besides a few lighter gray/silver trim pieces, it looks very drab. I know it's just a photoshop......
I guess I'm just not seeing what's "ridiculous" here. Instead, I see a modern interpretation of earlier-gen Camaro interiors, with HVAC knobs big enough to be handled by gloved hands in cold weather. How is that a problem?

As for the colors - this is a photochop - so who knows what will actually be on the production car. Hence, it's a little silly to be fretting over such things, at this point....

OK -- some thoughts. (after 235 posts that I can't get the whole way thru.......)

Yup -- we could 'play it safe' and put an IP in there that resembles every midsize sedan out there -- or we could give you something that says "Camaro" -- silly us. I believe in the final analysis that people will like this interior WHEN FINISHED.

That is the problem I am having with this. This interior does not say "Camaro" to me. I owned 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gen cars. This interior says absolutely nothing about the other 32 years of "Camaro".

Many of us on this forum argued literally for years over the topic of "retro vs modern". If I remember correctly, there was a pretty even split on this topic. The exterior of the car already caters much more to the retro crowd. I know most will say it is “heritage” but it is more retro than modern. The super retro interior once again totally caters to the retro crowd. Why polarize the design so much and alienate an entire population of potential Camaro buyers?

I think the combination of the concept’s exterior with a modern sporty interior would be a great balance. The retro crowd would love the retro exterior and accept the modern interior. The modern crowd would love the interior and accept the exterior. The non-Camaro enthusiast, who knows nothing of the 1st gen Camaros that were only made for three years 40 years ago, is much more likely to buy in to a more “normal” interior design.

Everybody wins!

Instead, I see a modern interpretation of earlier-gen Camaro interiors

"Modern" is in the eye of the beholder I suppose.....

No merit? Oh, silly me. Perhaps I need to be more direct and to the point.....



Anything that makes this information more difficult to read at speed is not acceptable in a performance car that will, you know, be driven fast.



Could I scroll through a DIC and obtain the desired info? Sure. Not really feasible when the car and I are "at work" though.

Could the DIC be set up so that the screen will always show some of this information at all times? Sure if it's designed that way, but those electronic screens are much more difficult to read when driving. Ever owned or driven one of the late '80s / early '90s electronic dash cars? I have. They went away for a reason. Once again, this option is not desirable when I'm at speed.

Could this information be projected onto a HUD? Sure but I hate them. Why? I find them to be a distraction. I have found them to be unreliable. And yes, I have lived with one for quite some time now.

The best method to relay important information to the driver of a performance car is a set of clearly marked analog faced gauges located as close to his / her line of sight as possible. Why? These can be read using only the briefest of glances with the least eye movement.

All cars have a DIC? Perhaps. I don't know that for sure but even if this is true, they are not all fully functional. Example: My truck is an LS. That means it is the mid range model. I get none of the information that the LTs or Denalis get. I get an odometer, tripmeter and an hourmeter. That's it. Will we have to spring for a top model if we want to actually read our gauge information while driving?

What need is there for a HUD or DIC if the information is right in front of me? None. Now the car doesn't need it at all. It doesn't have to be there. It doesn't have to be designed in from the outset. The car can be cheaper. The car can be simpler.

Obviously I am going to have to live with this if I decide to buy one. That doesn't mean I'm going to like it. Being able to access gauge information has now become a purchase criteria for me. Imagine that. What year is this again? 2008 you say? :rolleyes:


Scott may correct me if I'm wrong, but I am very sure every GM car and truck that has been released and/or redesigned since 2004 has a DIC, with perhaps the only exception being the Chevy Aveo. Now, they still have an analog fuel gauge which is of course a most necessary gauge, and I would bet my down payment when Scott speaks of "redundency" he means there will still be an analog fuel gauge located in either the tach, speedo, or the little space between the gauges on the Camaro. So there's an extra one in the gauge cluster on the console. Who cares? It looks cool. Even if you didn't care about the historical factor, I think it still looks cool. Unique. And a conversation piece for your front passengers :)

Oh, the DIC does more than just show temps, pressures, levels, and volts - it also controls auto headlamp delay, Rainsense wiper activation (if so equiped), security system settings (to honk or not to honk, one click or two clicks of the remote, interior lamp delay time), compass (DIC equiped GM cars with autodimming rearview mirrors now have the compass in the DIC and not in the mirror), if there is a door or trunk ajar, and a few other goodies that escape the top of my head right now.

The DIC really is a Driver Information Center. By integrating all the controls of the car into one central location it reduces wiring, controls, switches, and all sorts of other complexities. Instead, it's all done through a couple of computer boards. Scott could probably go more in depth with it than I can, but since I work in the field of computers and electronics I understand first hand the logic behind a DIC and why it is actually cheaper than sepparate, individual components. Multiplexing. This system is also very handy to have from a production standpoint because they can make the same basic design for every car and truck, but custom program them specifically by model. Like your home computer. You have a motherboard that can accept any number of different CPU processors, different sizes of RAM, hard drive sizes, DVD drives, and other accessories. Any number of configurations could make your computer either a low end model or the most powerfull complete system in your neighborhood, but they all use the same motherboard.

Not to mention, it really helps clean up the dash of extranious and frivolous buttons.

After a couple days of thinking about it, i have somewhat changed my mind. If you recall my posts from 2 days ago when the pictures were shown I was quite upset and hated the thing. I still dont necessarily like it that much and I would have potentially rather had them gone in a different direction. I would have LOVED something along the lines of a g8 interior but then something hit me...

An interior like that just wouldnt work for a Camaro. Even if the exterior was more modern something like the G8 wouldnt fit. (i still consider the exterior retro, to me "heritage" is just a cop out bc retro can have negative conotations but I think its retro done right - the best a car ever has been retro and i LOVE the exterior but that is a very beaten dead horse)

So why wouldnt an interior like the g8's or malibu's or cts's interior work. well... cars like that are typically more of utility family cars (im not saying they cant be fun but their purpose first and foremost is to be a method of transportation for a family - not a weekend car). The Camaro is supposed to be a fun car. Its supposed to be a cool car. Its not supposed to be a family car. It could be the family's weekend car but not typically the grocery getter. So the Camaro's interior has to be different - it has to be "cool." It has to invoke a spirit of fun in the driver and passengers if only by looking at it. Thats where i got the idea for all this. I thought about someone getting in the passenger seat - a kid or someone who isnt a car buff and they see the gauges down there in front of the shifter and my guess is they would think thats pretty friggen cool which, again, is the feeling this car needs to give people. It isnt the same old boring thing with 4 wheels and an engine its something more than that.

and especially with the gauge pod being an option (iirc someone eluded to that) then if you dont like it dont order it.

right now im just not really a fan of the hvac & radio design. I think it could be different and still be cool, if not cooler, but you know what? the more i think about what i just wrote, im glad GM went the way they did instead of just designing a standard, good looking interior. They did something for different for a car thats supposed to be different - something more than "just a car."

That is the problem I am having with this. This interior does not say "Camaro" to me. I owned 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gen cars. This interior says absolutely nothing about the other 32 years of "Camaro".

Many of us on this forum argued literally for years over the topic of "retro vs modern". If I remember correctly, there was a pretty even split on this topic. The exterior of the car already caters much more to the retro crowd. I know most will say it is “heritage” but it is more retro than modern. The super retro interior once again totally caters to the retro crowd. Why polarize the design so much and alienate an entire population of potential Camaro buyers?

I think the combination of the concept’s exterior with a modern sporty interior would be a great balance. The retro crowd would love the retro exterior and accept the modern interior. The modern crowd would love the interior and accept the exterior. The non-Camaro enthusiast, who knows nothing of the 1st gen Camaros that were only made for three years 40 years ago, is much more likely to buy in to a more “normal” interior design.

Everybody wins!
I can certainly understand, and respect that point of view. I do also recall the extensive 'retro' debates here in past years. There's something to be said for advocating that Chevy put a modern-style interior in a modern Camaro. But IMO, it just would not fit in the new Camaro as we now know it. The 2010 Camaro is clearly deriving scads of styling cues from the 1969 model (sorry to be Capt Obvious). It simply seems more 'harmonious' to open the door and see similar cues on the inside. Someone liking the exterior looks is already someone friendly to the 'heritage' notion. They are likely to be even more impressed to see more such cues inside the car. Those who want a thoroughly contemporary-themed car, such as a Honda Civic Si Coupe, aren't going to be on the market for this kind of car anyway.

I've enjoyed the several 4gen Firebirds I have owned. I liked their 'modern-style' interiors and the wild windshield rake. But the cycle has actually come around now, almost to the point that 'modern' is the 'new retro'! For example, everyone and their uncle seems to offer the same HVAC/stereo center stack now, with many tiny buttons and a digital display. I've begun to long for something different and unique. The concept Camaro's interior might have had some foibles (eg, hard-to-read speedo), but it dared to be different and dared to put Camaro heritage right up there in the driver's face. Sure it's a little polarizing... but those who like it, really like it. It might turn off a fraction of Camaro fans... but I don't think it 'alienates an entire population of potential Camaro buyers' or even a significant percentage of them.

The concept Camaro's interior might have had some foibles (eg, hard-to-read speedo), but it dared to be different and dared to put Camaro heritage right up there in the driver's face. Sure it's a little polarizing... but those who like it, really like it. It might turn off a fraction of Camaro fans... but I don't think it 'alienates an entire population of potential Camaro buyers' or even a significant percentage of them.

I think the amount of discussion that has occurred on this topic over the last several days proves that the interior is more than “a little polarizing”. Only time will tell whether those turned off by it will be a fraction or a significant number.

I thought I was done with this topic (dead horse comes to mind). There is still something bothering me.

Everyone seems to think that the only options for an interior design are 1) retro or 2) Just like everyone else is making (Scott even made such a statement). If I was a designer, I think I would be offended by such an implication.

Who said you can't have a fresh unique design that is modern and looks like a car made in this decade? I mean really, if the designers that work for me ever come up and said the only ideas I have are to copy 40 year old designs or copy what everyone else is doing today, I’m quite certain I will start looking for a new design team.

I think the amount of discussion that has occurred on this topic over the last several days proves that the interior is more than “a little polarizing”. Only time will tell whether those turned off by it will be a fraction or a significant number.
Unfortunately, I've been lurking and posting in web forums long enough to know there isn't much of a true correlation between the depth of an actual controversy, and the amount of long-winded debates surrounding it ;)
Who said you can't have a fresh unique design that is modern and looks like a car made in this decade? I mean really, if the designers that work for me ever come up and said the only ideas I have are to copy 40 year old designs or copy what everyone else is doing today, I’m quite certain I will start looking for a new design team.
I guess that's a subjective matter. From what little we've seen so far of the mule's cobbled, half-done interior - I'm already believing that GM has achieved a modern-looking interior. Its 2010 technologies, such as the ergonomic steering wheel, appear to be gracefully integrated with cues from previous Camaros - at least from what is known right now about the production car. JM02.

I think the gauges look pretty cool, and would be a good conversation point. Doesn't bother me.

But I will reiterate in gigantic text:

I HATE THAT STEERING WHEEL!

I understand what the designers were trying to do (three spoke, the small horn button type look) but that style does not work with an airbag in there because the airbag is so big!

I think the steering wheel is cool and hope it stays

After a couple days of thinking about it, i have somewhat changed my mind. If you recall my posts from 2 days ago when the pictures were shown I was quite upset and hated the thing. I still dont necessarily like it that much and I would have potentially rather had them gone in a different direction. I would have LOVED something along the lines of a g8 interior but then something hit me...

An interior like that just wouldnt work for a Camaro. Even if the exterior was more modern something like the G8 wouldnt fit. (i still consider the exterior retro, to me "heritage" is just a cop out bc retro can have negative conotations but I think its retro done right - the best a car ever has been retro and i LOVE the exterior but that is a very beaten dead horse)

So why wouldnt an interior like the g8's or malibu's or cts's interior work. well... cars like that are typically more of utility family cars (im not saying they cant be fun but their purpose first and foremost is to be a method of transportation for a family - not a weekend car). The Camaro is supposed to be a fun car. Its supposed to be a cool car. Its not supposed to be a family car. It could be the family's weekend car but not typically the grocery getter. So the Camaro's interior has to be different - it has to be "cool." It has to invoke a spirit of fun in the driver and passengers if only by looking at it. Thats where i got the idea for all this. I thought about someone getting in the passenger seat - a kid or someone who isnt a car buff and they see the gauges down there in front of the shifter and my guess is they would think thats pretty friggen cool which, again, is the feeling this car needs to give people. It isnt the same old boring thing with 4 wheels and an engine its something more than that.

and especially with the gauge pod being an option (iirc someone eluded to that) then if you dont like it dont order it.

right now im just not really a fan of the hvac & radio design. I think it could be different and still be cool, if not cooler, but you know what? the more i think about what i just wrote, im glad GM went the way they did instead of just designing a standard, good looking interior. They did something for different for a car thats supposed to be different - something more than "just a car."



Hallelujah!!!!!!!!

Someone put into words what I've been trying to say all along.......

God Bless ya..........

Naysayers -- go read this again............

I think the steering wheel is cool and hope it stays


Wow -- for those of you who know lorcinls1-- he doesn't say much (quiet kinda guy -- ) - so this, in my book -- speaks volumes!!!!

Glad you like it -- but trust me -- it will look much better in the finished form......

Did everyone want us to take something 'off the shelf?' rather than put a special "Camaro" steering wheel on the car?

Also -- keep in mind-- airbags DO take up some room........

The Camaro is supposed to be a fun car. Its supposed to be a cool car. Its not supposed to be a family car. It could be the family's weekend car but not typically the grocery getter. So the Camaro's interior has to be different - it has to be "cool." It has to invoke a spirit of fun in the driver and passengers if only by looking at it. Thats where i got the idea for all this. I thought about someone getting in the passenger seat - a kid or someone who isnt a car buff and they see the gauges down there in front of the shifter and my guess is they would think thats pretty friggen cool which, again, is the feeling this car needs to give people. It isnt the same old boring thing with 4 wheels and an engine its something more than that.
This is so true! I had this happen to me. My brother in law took me for a ride in his 1970 Plymouth RoadRunner GTX (440? Some kind of big honkin' V8). My most striking memory? Well I was in the front passenger seat... and I still recall distinctly, thinking how cool the shifter looked. It was a 'pistol grip' style OEM shifter, and looked like a gun handle. That and the sound of that classic MoPar V8... still sticks with me today :cool:

I hope to impart some of the same kinds of memories on my two boys. I have a feeling they're going to want Camaros someday too :)

just out of the blue, whats the green car on the trailer??

I believe it's a Holden Commodore. Holden has some GREAT GREAT looking cars. Check 'em out:

http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/

i thought so, i was looking at the badge on the bottom left and it looked similar to the gto badge (if anyone notices), was just checking thanks

Did everyone want us to take something 'off the shelf?' rather than put a special "Camaro" steering wheel on the car?



This is a point that cannot be emphasized enough.

Anybody noticing how little "off the shelf" is in that interior? Even the C6 has the same steering wheel that comes in the Cobalt. The Camaro, however, gets a totally new piece in order to preserve the integrity of the concept's interior.

I can see Cobalt/HHR air vents at the edges of the dash. That's the only parts bin stuff I see.

This speaks volumes of the importance GM has attached to this car, and the resources they have clearly committed.

I personally loved the concept interior, particularly the orange backlit panels. I'm hoping the finished product gives us the same feel.

:bow:

You guys are forgetting one very important thing, (and let me apologize in advance if someone has already said this, but I just don't have the patience to scroll through 15+pages of mostly negative comments to check), when Scott says "have faith...wait..." he has NEVER failed us. He shouldn't have to defend OUR CAR from US, not with his track record.

Well, that is the most embarrassing interior I've seen from GM since the 1999 Pontiac Grand Am :rolleyes:

What's with the frogeye tach and speedo? Or the mutant HVAC/radio cluster?

We ALL hated the dash at NAIAS...and these minimal changes are what we get? WTF?

We ALL hated the dash at NAIAS...

Who do you think you are speaking for?

Who do you think you are speaking for?

Not me!

I love the rag tops interior, especially the two tone colors and heavy/baseball style stitching. I really hope the rag top seats/style makes it into production.

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//media/il/features/general/chevrolet.camaro/camaro.conv.int.2.500.jpg

I went back and tried to like it, didn't happen. But I'll be optimistic and listen to Scott.

The problem boils down to way too many inconsistencies, it looks busy, among other things. It's probably reasonable to assume that they've got somethings in there from "Style A," and some things in there from "Style B," because they're still in the decision making process. :shrug:

Either a rounded asthetic or a squared off one, not both. Either a retro look, the gauge faces, or a modern one, the HVAC controls with two dozen functions, not both... Once that's done, then yeah, maybe.

However, I think that the dash definetly either needs to be flush all the way across, like on the concept, or it needs to have a proper center stack. Not with the vents flush and the radio bulging out like a tumor.

I'm curious....for those who hate the interior...tell / show me one that you feel would be more of what you're looking for in a Camaro interior.

I've seen the G8 and it's nice, but looks like many other cars....nothing special.

I KNOW the finished product will be 100x better than the current pictures...and have owned more than 10 1969 Camaro w/ with console guages..so they don't bother me.

Just curious....

Id rather have that steering wheel than the Corvette/Cobalt wheel, lol

Originally Posted by Good Ph.D:
I went back and tried to like it, didn't happen. But I'll be optimistic and listen to Scott.

The problem boils down to way too many inconsistencies, it looks busy, among other things. It's probably reasonable to assume that they've got somethings in there from "Style A," and some things in there from "Style B," because they're still in the decision making process.

Either a rounded asthetic or a squared off one, not both. Either a retro look, the gauge faces, or a modern one, the HVAC controls with two dozen functions, not both... Once that's done, then yeah, maybe.

However, I think that the dash definetly either needs to be flush all the way across, like on the concept, or it needs to have a proper center stack. Not with the vents flush and the radio bulging out like a tumor.
I've been doing the same thing, going back, again and again....
This sums up the same things I was thinking, kinda looks like a hodg-podg right now.....And yes, I know it's not near complete, I'm talking about THIS one, the leaked one...
It differs from the leaked, infamous "white" pics, in that this isn't a trick of lighting etc...but multiple pics from different angles, and it doesn't look good..."to me".
That's all I said, and all I intended to infer, I'm sure it'll get better....

Who do you think you are speaking for?

The entire busload of people I came back from the show with. Maybe Charlie can back me up on this one? Maybe I was in bizzaro world? :D No disrespect or misrepresentation meant...I'm just really dissappointed, because I was under the impression a lot more would change. If you felt more people liked it than not, then I guess I wasn't with your group.

Not me!

I love the rag tops interior, especially the two tone colors and heavy/baseball style stitching. I really hope the rag top seats/style makes it into production.

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//media/il/features/general/chevrolet.camaro/camaro.conv.int.2.500.jpg

Love the seats in that pic. I prefer the steering wheel of the concept over the test vehicle. Or maybe I just like the centre on the concept's steering wheel.

I'm curious....for those who hate the interior...tell / show me one that you feel would be more of what you're looking for in a Camaro interior.

I've seen the G8 and it's nice, but looks like many other cars....nothing special.

I KNOW the finished product will be 100x better than the current pictures...and have owned more than 10 1969 Camaro w/ with console guages..so they don't bother me.

Just curious....

Simply a more "normal," less humpy dash cluster would be great, as would be a less odd looking HVAC panel. Otherwise, I think it looks fine...but those 2 aspects kill it IMO. Maybe when I see it in person I'll feel different...but I thought the Challenger did a lot better job of combining retro and new inside. The Camaro is far sleeker outside IMO.

The entire busload of people I came back from the show with. Maybe Charlie can back me up on this one? Maybe I was in bizzaro world? :D No disrespect or misrepresentation meant...I'm just really dissappointed, because I was under the impression a lot more would change. If you felt more people liked it than not, then I guess I wasn't with your group.

No bud, you weren't in bizzaro world, I remember LOTS of negative comments about the interior on the bus ride back.

I'm curious....for those who hate the interior...tell / show me one that you feel would be more of what you're looking for in a Camaro interior.

I've seen the G8 and it's nice, but looks like many other cars....nothing special.

I KNOW the finished product will be 100x better than the current pictures...and have owned more than 10 1969 Camaro w/ with console guages..so they don't bother me.

Just curious....

Me personally, I just don't like those rectangular gauge surrounds - they look like '57 Chevy fenders to me and frankly a bit goofy. If they were rounded, sort of like the '67-'68, I think they'd look way nicer IMO.

The console gauges are just kinda dumb. Make that gimmicky and dumb, kinda like a tack-on fake hoodscoop or something.

The steering wheel potentially could look like those padded bumper car steering wheels. Sure hope not.

And dear God, let's have decent looking center stack.

I'm curious....for those who hate the interior...tell / show me one that you feel would be more of what you're looking for in a Camaro interior.

I've seen the G8 and it's nice, but looks like many other cars....nothing special.

I KNOW the finished product will be 100x better than the current pictures...and have owned more than 10 1969 Camaro w/ with console guages..so they don't bother me.

Just curious....


Since you are asking, I will add some feedback.

First, I will preface my next comment with the statement that I mean no disrespect and do not intend to insult anyone. I am being totally honest.

The first time I saw the concept car’s interior it reminded me of an old pickup that my grandfather drove (1950s era maybe). Now, before I get accused of being on crack, I am not saying that it looked like it. I am saying it reminded me of it. The retro metal ring on steering wheel; The pod style speedo and tach; The retro faces on all of the gauges; The straight, plain and simplistic dash; The rather cold feel the whole thing had. This is my biggest issue and the main reason I have not been able to warm up to this interior concept. Believe me I have tried! I don’t think the interior is attractive and I don’t think it looks sporty at all. Moreover, the interior of a Camaro should never ever remind anyone of an old pickup truck.

Likes: Seats

Dislikes: Dash - straight and simplistic, much prefer wrap around cockpit style. Square pods with round gauges not attractive at all, looks added on; Retro faces on all gauges; Consol gauges look so cheesy and totally useless in that location. Steering wheel: I thought anything would be better than the corporate one that is used on everything today. I was wrong.

What would I like to see?
There was an earlier post by 0toinsanein5.4sec that Fbodyfather told the naysayers to go back and read. The funny thing is I thought it was a great post. I also think the Camaro interior needs to be fun, sporty, cool, unique and different. Unfortunately, for me personally, the concept’s interior only hits on unique and different (and not in good way). I just think it could be so much better!

The first time I saw the concept car’s interior it reminded me of an old pickup that my grandfather drove (1950s era maybe).

That exactly nails it!

LOVE: Gauge pod on center console. No it's not incredibly functional, but it's so cool! Remember cool people? That's what a Camaro is. If you want this car with a German interior buy a Pontiac G8. As I've said many times before, there is a reason GM can sell the same basic car under multiple brands - people have different tastes/desires.

Like: Steering wheel. I'm 'liking' it on the condition that the materials do indeed improve. The shape is neat and thankfully not of the standard GM parts bin. Based on both Scott's record for honesty and GM's record for interior quality as of late, I'm assuming it will be high quality when it comes to production.

Hate: HVAC. Looks like someone glued a Super Nintendo controller to the center console. Maybe the "parts-bin" would be a good choice here.

Overall: Don't love it don't hate it. Again, I believe Scott when he says production materials will make a difference.

I'll also keep in mind that I never had a problem with the interiors in the third and fourth gens my Dad owned. I know, that's not the general view, but I still don't think interior design need be the number one priority for the Camaro team.

Just out of curiosity, would anyone here really not buy the car specifically because of this interior? I'm genuinely curious.

P.S. Hope the seats are comfortable. GM does NOT have a good track record here. All the Camaro's we've owned have been real torture chambers on road trips. It was, I think, a big reason my father traded his in. Given that most buyers will be his age (upper 40's) and not mine (lower 20's), it's important to make doubly sure the seats are baby-boomer friendly.

Member RAMPANT was kind enough to clean up the interior with a photoshop pic of it. He did take some liberties with the center stack (and added a manual shift!!!) but are y'all REALLY that opposed to this? I think it looks killer.

http://img30.picoodle.com/img/img30/4/1/5/f_interiorPrem_3e7432a.jpg
As some others said, I agree -- this looks much better than the original leaked photo.

However, I (like several others) feel that what I'm assuming are radio control buttons look like they came straight off a Sega Genesis controller. I think they don't fit with the design theme.

Comparing the original with Rampant's edit side by side, I noticed that Rampant made the radio buttons protrude less. I like it quite a bit better, but I still think that could be improved upon.

However, I think that the dash definetly either needs to be flush all the way across, like on the concept, or it needs to have a proper center stack. Not with the vents flush and the radio bulging out like a tumor.
I agree with this. Personally, my vote is for a proper center stack, and for some degree of "wraparound" towards the driver. It's a driver's car, right? :) I believe it's possible to achieve this while still making the car unique and fun, and while still making a proper Camaro.

Love the seats in that pic. I prefer the steering wheel of the concept over the test vehicle. Or maybe I just like the centre on the concept's steering wheel.

I love the concepts steering wheel as well, unfortunately it was never air bag friendly (too small) :(

Everyone seems to think that the only options for an interior design are 1) retro or 2) Just like everyone else is making (Scott even made such a statement). If I was a designer, I think I would be offended by such an implication.

Who said you can't have a fresh unique design that is modern and looks like a car made in this decade? I mean really, if the designers that work for me ever come up and said the only ideas I have are to copy 40 year old designs or copy what everyone else is doing today, I’m quite certain I will start looking for a new design team.

I have been saying this for the longest time. People seem to think that nothing is new and all ideas are recycled. That is why I was dissapointed in the Camaro because there is little new in the design.

I have been saying this for the longest time. People seem to think that nothing is new and all ideas are recycled. That is why I was dissapointed in the Camaro because there is little new in the design.
I'd have to disagree with that. The Camaro concept does have a lot of cues and elements from previous Camaros - but taken together, no one is going to mistake it for a car from the 1960's (I wish I could say the same for the new Challenger). This, I believe, is one of the reasons why the concept car resonated so widely with car fans when it appeared. It's sleeker, smoother and more contemporary but still evokes those basic muscle car attributes of a menacing stance, sculpted sides, a racy roofline, and hulking big wheels. Chevy struck just the right balance, and it shows. This car will be a classic and will be coveted by collectors for many decades to come.

I'm curious....for those who hate the interior...tell / show me one that you feel would be more of what you're looking for in a Camaro interior.

I've seen the G8 and it's nice, but looks like many other cars....nothing special.


The problem with the question is that no matter what interior is mentioned, people will say "well that doesn't belong and it looks like it is from another car", because it is. Again, it goes back to people who think that you have to copy past Camaros or you have to copy another car's interior. Industrial Designer's job is to create new designs, so they can do it. As for the argument about the steering wheel, there are other coices than ugly or parts bin (I actually don't have that big a problem with it accept that it could use to loose 20 lbs of visual heft).

To answer the question, I would say the Malibu and G8 interior would be a good place to start. Make it more driver oriented, put in a few Camaro cues, and have a healthy dose of design cues we haven't seen yet. Use the quality of appearence of the G8 interior with the richness and diversity of materials. Including color in the interior is great, same as with the Malibu. I would like to see a less busy interior than the CTS, but maybe something like the center console area with a sports car feel, I think that is just beautiful. Remember, the possibilities are endless.

The problem with the question is that no matter what interior is mentioned, people will say "well that doesn't belong and it looks like it is from another car", because it is. Again, it goes back to people who think that you have to copy past Camaros or you have to copy another car's interior. Industrial Designer's job is to create new designs, so they can do it. As for the argument about the steering wheel, there are other coices than ugly or parts bin (I actually don't have that big a problem with it accept that it could use to loose 20 lbs of visual heft).

To answer the question, I would say the Malibu and G8 interior would be a good place to start. Make it more driver oriented, put in a few Camaro cues, and have a healthy dose of design cues we haven't seen yet. Use the quality of appearence of the G8 interior with the richness and diversity of materials. Including color in the interior is great, same as with the Malibu. I would like to see a less busy interior than the CTS, but maybe something like the center console area with a sports car feel, I think that is just beautiful. Remember, the possibilities are endless.
I can sure understand the yearning for quality materials, and original design. Both are very important in today's interiors. But how can we make any judgements, at this point, about the quality of materials in the new Camaro? No one has sat in, driven, or even seen the production interior. Why not follow FBF's advice, and wait til its ready for that.

As for originality - I for one would not want to walk up to my 2010 Camaro, with all the emotions that exterior stirs, about traditional muscle... and then sit down in a G8 interior. It makes more sense to enter something that continues and extends the theme.

As for steering wheels - that is one thing that's striking to me, when I drive my two cars. The wheel in my GP feels thick, substantial, modern. The one in my Formula (despite its OEM palm swells at 10 and 2) feels dated, slender, even skinny... and a little cheap even. I welcome the new Camaro wheel, IF that's how it's going to be... but plan to reserve judgment until I see and touch one.

Why not follow FBF's advice, and wait til its ready for that.
I think another aspect of that is: Nobody says you HAVE to like it, and wait until Production to do so...just wait until you see the real one, and then hate it. I'm sure they just hope you like it anyways...then

As for originality - I for one would not want to walk up to my 2010 Camaro, with all the emotions that exterior stirs, about traditional muscle... and then sit down in a G8 interior. It makes more sense to enter something that continues and extends the theme.

.


First off, I have no doubt that the materials in the Camaro interior will be excellent and I am sure the quality of construction will be excellent as well.

What theme are you taling about? As I have said, I think it is the theme of a modern interpretation of a 1st gen Camaro. Having the interior just like that proves that it is a retro themed car and that is fine if you like that. I would argue that to really separate the Camaro from the pack, why not have a modern designed interior? In a year or two, there will be 3 retro pony/muscle cars inside and out and one modern rwd Haudai coupe inside and out. I wish there was a little more differentiation between the Camaro and the others. People do love modern interiors. There is a reason Cadillac doesn't look back to 1972 for interior design cues. If the Camaro has a modern exterior design as you say, then a modern interior would fit nicely.

What part of the new camaro's interior won't be modern? You can't make something old look and function new?

Does a refridgerator from 2007 not look similar to one from 1970? Which one works better and has more features? Yet, it's still clearly recognizable as a fridge, is it not?

I've been in first gen interiors, and while this interior may "look old" which I don't think it does, it looks very modern to me, it will have ALL the same amenities other new cars have. So how can it not be modern? I'm confused.

Hell, I'd almost be willing to bet that someone who has never seen a first gen interior would think, hey, this is DIFFERENT than all that other crap out there and it looks cool!

What part of the new camaro's interior won't be modern? You can't make something old look and function new?

Does a refridgerator from 2007 not look similar to one from 1970? Which one works better and has more features? Yet, it's still clearly recognizable as a fridge, is it not?

I've been in first gen interiors, and while this interior may "look old" which I don't think it does, it looks very modern to me, it will have ALL the same amenities other new cars have. So how can it not be modern? I'm confused.

Hell, I'd almost be willing to bet that someone who has never seen a first gen interior would think, hey, this is DIFFERENT than all that other crap out there and it looks cool!
Thank You. Well said.

LOVE: Gauge pod on center console. No it's not incredibly functional, but it's so cool! Remember cool people? That's what a Camaro is. If you want this car with a German interior buy a Pontiac G8. As I've said many times before, there is a reason GM can sell the same basic car under multiple brands - people have different tastes/desires.

Lol, guages on the console are cool? Whatever you say buddy, in my world, guages on the console are right up there with a tach attached to the steering column with a hose clamp. It's a compromised place to mount guages because you didn't have anywhere better to put them in your hoopty. And even add-on console guages basically went out of style 10-15 years ago when a-pillar pods and replacing heater vents with flush guages panels came into vogue.

There's a reason it's been almost 40 years since camaro had guages there, and no one else has ever put factory guages there.

I hope for chevy's sake they didn't screw the pooch by going out on a limb with this esoteric 'cool' dash design. Remember this car will be a dismal failure if it sells in 4th gen like numbers. And camaro is not mustang, so just because mustang can sell 100k+ with a retro interior doesn't mean camaro will be so lucky. Camaro needs to attract a whole new crowd, mustang's fans never left.

Besides, camaro used to be first with some innovations and style, like the first with EFI, first with MPFI, first with 16" wheels standard on performance models, first 6 speed manual, many magazines at the time hailed the fighter cockpit interior layout of the thirdgen compared to the taxi-cab mustang. Now camaro is going to rip off the retro interior look 5 years AFTER mustang. Are you kidding me.

No bud, you weren't in bizzaro world, I remember LOTS of negative comments about the interior on the bus ride back.

I do too!!!

Does a refridgerator from 2007 not look similar to one from 1970? Which one works better and has more features? Yet, it's still clearly recognizable as a fridge, is it not?

My fridge (bought new in '06), with its blue-backlit LCD display with digital readouts of the current temperatures of the fridge and freezer, ice mode indicator (crushed or cubed), water filter status, and cooling indicators would probably scare some people in the '70s. :)

http://images.oldhouseweb.com/stories/bitmaps/2005/13721/large.jpg
http://www.justhungry.com/images/subzero.jpg

^^ not mine :)

Incidentally, the second picture was labeled "Fridge porn". :lol:

and have owned more than 10 1969 Camaro w/ with console guages..so they don't bother me.

Hmm. I think that kind of sums things up for me.

See, I haven't been fortunate enough to own a First Gen. Perhaps this Camaro just isn't marketed to me? :irk:

And therein lies the problem. The appeal of the interior design just isn't broad enough. Is it quirky? Yeah. Is it unique? Yeah. I understand the desire to do something different here, but for a car that GM wants everyone to believe is only loosely based on a '69 model, the interior design tells me something completely different.

Perhaps if the square gauge pods were instead smaller and rounded and the font was readable and fresh (i.e. not like Mustang's) I'll change my tune. And perhaps the center stack will look much better. And perhaps there will be easy-to-read, redundant gauges to compliment the gimmicks in front of the shifter. Hope so.

Until you actually sit in the damn car how in the hell does everyone here know the gauges won't easily be readable? How many people glance down and right at the radio, or a nav screen, or a DIC, or for God sake, a frickin' DVD player with a movie playing WHILE DRIVING. :mad:

I sure hope GM doesn't put a cup holder in front of them though.... :lol:

Lol, guages on the console are cool? Whatever you say buddy, in my world, guages on the console are right up there with a tach attached to the steering column with a hose clamp. It's a compromised place to mount guages because you didn't have anywhere better to put them in your hoopty. And even add-on console guages basically went out of style 10-15 years ago when a-pillar pods and replacing heater vents with flush guages panels came into vogue.

There's a reason it's been almost 40 years since camaro had guages there, and no one else has ever put factory guages there.

I hope for chevy's sake they didn't screw the pooch by going out on a limb with this esoteric 'cool' dash design. Remember this car will be a dismal failure if it sells in 4th gen like numbers. And camaro is not mustang, so just because mustang can sell 100k+ with a retro interior doesn't mean camaro will be so lucky. Camaro needs to attract a whole new crowd, mustang's fans never left.

Besides, camaro used to be first with some innovations and style, like the first with EFI, first with MPFI, first with 16" wheels standard on performance models, first 6 speed manual, many magazines at the time hailed the fighter cockpit interior layout of the thirdgen compared to the taxi-cab mustang. Now camaro is going to rip off the retro interior look 5 years AFTER mustang. Are you kidding me.
Maybe you'd rather have this headache-maker, from the Lexus LF-A concept?

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff210/BlueStreak_95/misc/LF-A-dash.jpg

(from http://www.aussiemotoring.com/motoring-articles/lexus-2008-concept-cars.html )

If given a choice, between the concept Camaro's console gauges, and this monstrosity from Lexus... I'll take the Camaro thanks :death:

As for the extensive list of 'firsts' achieved by the Camaro.. if the Camaro turns out to have a HUD... a lot of folks will be eating Crow here :D

Even if it doesn't end up with a HUD - it would be easy for the new Camaro to sport a DIC like this, from the Lexus IS-F:

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff210/BlueStreak_95/misc/IS-F-dash2.jpg

Those pictures aren't showing up here, i had to follow the link.

I'd take that lexus dashboard in a second over the retro 5th gen design.

And if the 5th gen has a HUD, i won't be eating crow. Odds are it won't be standard, and odds are, console guages won't be a separate option from it. And i'd rather have a place to throw loose change, an ipod, sunglasses, my phone, etc than those stupid guages. And that's a big part of the reason i hate them. Not only because they are in a bad place to be seen, but also because they are in a place that has utilitarian value. I could live with idiot lights in the HUD and guages elsewhere, but not if elsewhere means i won't have anywhere to put my sunglasses and ipod.

And the retro square housings with round guages are dumb too. As is the bumper car steering wheel.

And i'd rather have a place to throw loose change, an ipod, sunglasses, my phone, etc than those stupid guages. And that's a big part of the reason i hate them. Not only because they are in a bad place to be seen, but also because they are in a place that has utilitarian value. I could live with idiot lights in the HUD and guages elsewhere, but not if elsewhere means i won't have anywhere to put my sunglasses and ipod.
Have you seen, or tried stowing personal items in, a production 2010 Camaro console? No? Didn't think so....

Those pictures aren't showing up here, i had to follow the link.

I'd take that lexus dashboard in a second over the retro 5th gen design.

And if the 5th gen has a HUD, i won't be eating crow. Odds are it won't be standard, and odds are, console guages won't be a separate option from it. And i'd rather have a place to throw loose change, an ipod, sunglasses, my phone, etc than those stupid guages. And that's a big part of the reason i hate them. Not only because they are in a bad place to be seen, but also because they are in a place that has utilitarian value. I could live with idiot lights in the HUD and guages elsewhere, but not if elsewhere means i won't have anywhere to put my sunglasses and ipod.

And the retro square housings with round guages are dumb too. As is the bumper car steering wheel.

Well gee, all my Blazers and Jimmys from the last twenty plus years have had coin holders to take care off loose change, sunglass holders in the ceiling console, even a place to hold your garage door opener, tapes/disks, etc. What makes you think the new Camaro won't have such things? Some unauthorized "spy pics" of an unfinished prototype interior that is obviously far from finished and missing many key components? If I had an iPod I'd probably pitch the thing out the window once I got the new Camaro fired up, wouldn't take much for my cell phone to follow it out the window, I'm buying a new Camaro to DRIVE, not as a mobile lounge or family room. Why don't you see what kind of finished product Chevy offers us and then you can scream bloody murder if you're still not happy.
Clyde

If I had an iPod I'd probably pitch the thing out the window once I got the new Camaro fired up

I know that listening to the engine has appeal, but do you seriously never listen to music while you drive?

Any one notice how the silver gauge bezels appeard to be duct taped to the dash?

http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2009-chevy-camaro-spy-shots/555825/full

Also, I cant really tell from this pic, but anyone have any idea if the steering wheel might be adjustable fore/aft?

Sunglasses will go in that WAY cool overhead console. And there will be plenty of storage for other things. I'd WAY rather have those console gauges than a hole with a jumbled mess of stuff in it.
And look at it this way, if your HUD ever goes out, you've got a back up for the vitals in those gauges. Console gauges...get used to 'em cause they're stayin! :D

Is that a 6-grand redline?

Any one notice how the silver gauge bezels appeard to be duct taped to the dash?

I wouldn't be at all surprised if there were 10 lbs of duct tape and another 5 lbs of zip ties scattered throughout the entire car. Test mules are always that way.

I think the gauges need to be more smooth in flow across the dash. The two protrusions sticking up ruin the lines IMO.

I know that listening to the engine has appeal, but do you seriously never listen to music while you drive?

:cool:I do listen to music when driving, more so on highway trips than the local drives. I like to hear a great sounding engine/exhaust, on local drives I leave music turned way down as there are so many idiots on the road these days that you need to be able to hear every little thing and stay completely alert.
Clyde

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/gallery/data/551/medium/ctv13.jpg
No room for NAV..?
No problem.....
I know this would probably be too expensive but, this interior is sweeeeeet!:cool:
(for those who don't know, it's a CTS-V)
Definitely not some boring sedan interior!

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/gallery/data/551/medium/ctv13.jpg
No room for NAV..?
No problem.....
I know this would probably be too expensive but, this interior is sweeeeeet!:cool:
(for those who don't know, it's a CTS-V)
Definitely not some boring sedan interior!

That is a nice interior......

Maybe Cadillac should have used a retro strip speedometer which took up the entire driver's intrument panel - and is "cool" 'cause they used it in 1969.

That is a nice interior......

Maybe Cadillac should have used a retro strip speedometer which took up the entire driver's intrument panel - and is "cool" 'cause they used it in 1969.

No, it is cool because it is "different" and "no car on the market currently has it".

Yes, that interior of the CTS-V is excellent. I always look foward to Cadillac concepts and debuts the most.

Maybe Cadillac should have used a retro strip speedometer which took up the entire driver's intrument panel - and is "cool" 'cause they used it in 1969.

:lol:

Actually, if the First Gen had one of these, I really do wonder if that would be the interior theme for a 21st Century iteration.....:rolleyes:

http://img.cadillac.porcus.cz/auta/1990-deville-coupe/1990-deville-coupe-speedometer.jpg

Similar.....

http://static.taume.com/image/196.jpg

That is a nice interior......

Maybe Cadillac should have used a retro strip speedometer which took up the entire driver's intrument panel - and is "cool" 'cause they used it in 1969.
Obviously the new CTS-V has a great interior. What are they, two, or three times the cost of a Mustang GT? :confused:

And, way to compare apples to oranges... trying to draw a comparison between what is clearly a production-ready CTS-V interior, with optimum lighting and professional effects laid on by graphic artists, with the spy pix we've seen of a cobbled, half-done, cluttered Camaro test mule interior (taken by someone in a hurry to avoid prosecution, hanging off the side of a car transporter) :rolleyes:

Obviously the new CTS-V has a great interior. What are they, two, or three times the cost of a Mustang GT? :confused:

And, way to compare apples to oranges... trying to draw a comparison between what is clearly a production-ready CTS-V interior, with optimum lighting and professional effects laid on by graphic artists, with the spy pix we've seen of a cobbled, half-done, cluttered Camaro test mule interior (taken by someone in a hurry to avoid prosecution, hanging off the side of a car transporter) :rolleyes:

So what you are saying is that the spy pic interior gives us NO CLUE as to the intent of the production version. You mean the production version isn't going to have goofy dual rectangular gauge pods - like the concept but not quite as nice. You mean the production car isn't getting gimmicky but "cool" :rolleyes: and non useable console gauges - like the concept, but not quite as nice. Oh thanks, I feel much better.

The center stack, I'll give you that one - I just can't imagine the production version being quite that bizzarro, but you never know I guess.

Oh, and what difference does cost have to do in an interior design? Drop the nav screen and some trim and why couldn't a Mustang priced car have a nice interior like that? The Malibu comes close.

So what you are saying is that the spy pic interior gives us NO CLUE as to the intent of the production version. You mean the production version isn't going to have goofy dual rectangular gauge pods - like the concept but not quite as nice. You mean the production car isn't getting gimmicky but "cool" :rolleyes: and non useable console gauges - like the concept, but not quite as nice. Oh thanks, I feel much better.
Sure, it does seem those spy pix give a lot of clues as to production design themes and shapes. Like any other unique, striking design, those will not appeal to everyone. But I hope that everyone who is considering a new Camaro in their future will give it a fair chance by sitting in and driving one before deciding, instead of jumping to conclusions from incomplete and poor data currently available. Do you stare at an interior of a car, via photos once you own it - or do you get in it and drive somewhere?

Oh, and what difference does cost have to do in an interior design? Drop the nav screen and some trim and why couldn't a Mustang priced car have a nice interior like that? The Malibu comes close.
Cost has a lot to do with it. Yes, I like the new Malibu interior. I also liked the interior of the HHR LT that I rented a while back. It had a lot of heritage-style elements in there - but was also contemporary - for example had a cool little ambient light that shined down on the center stack at night. Little touches like that, make all the difference in helping folks enjoy driving their cars. And again, we simply DO NOT know what the production Camaro interior is like yet. So I'll be in a wait-and-see mode. How about you?

So I'll be in a wait-and-see mode. How about you?

Of course I'll wait and see - I've waited this long.

But I reserve the right to comment concurrently on things as I see them. FTW.

First off , over all i like the car. I don't have a problem with the interior--except the gauges on the floor. I may be the only one, but i hate it. That's called retro for retros' sake. I have a hard enough time reaching out changing the radio, let alone looking at the floor for my gauges. I tend to look a lot. The 3rd and 4th gens had great clusters. Now they put them on the floor because that's the way it was in 69'?? I got news for them, most people have seen old Camaro's, but they havn't been in them. I have a suggestion for GM. Go get a cell phone from the 80's, and stick that in the car too. Just for old times sake.

Wow -- for those of you who know lorcinls1-- he doesn't say much (quiet kinda guy -- ) - so this, in my book -- speaks volumes!!!!

Glad you like it -- but trust me -- it will look much better in the finished form......

Did everyone want us to take something 'off the shelf?' rather than put a special "Camaro" steering wheel on the car?

Also -- keep in mind-- airbags DO take up some room........
You let him touch it didn't you.

I realize the car is not a finished car...but that steering looks freakin' huge, and the gauges on the floor? Might as well not put 'em in freakin' trunk.

Again, I realize this is a mule...

Can't wait to see the finished car. And take away some of Rustangs spotlight (what with all the stupid "Special Edition Mustangs" that come out every quarter).

"Daddy, can I ride the dead horse too? Please, please!" :D

I know similar things have already been said and I know I've said something similar before (in one of my few posts in the auto world of the net), but I LIKE the interior direction I see. The absolute last thing in the world I want is to get into my Camaro and have it look and feel like our 'Bu baby hauler or my friends Accord or even my mom's Grand Prix GTP Comp G. I want an interior that has serious attitude and that's constantly saying to me, "You're not in any other car, you're in a Camaro **** it!" If it says that to everyone who ever rides with me too, that's even better. You can't do what everyone else is doing and still be unique. You have to be different to be different and I want my Camaro to be differnt.

You can't do what everyone else is doing and still be unique. You have to be different to be different and I want my Camaro to be differnt.

Different? Like the retro interior that's been out since MY2005 in the mustang or the MY 2008 challenger in a 2010 camaro. Different, just like everyone else...

Different? Like the retro interior that's been out since MY2005 in the mustang or the MY 2008 challenger in a 2010 camaro. Different, just like everyone else...

I've seen the interior in the Mustang and the Challenger, neither looks like the spy shots of the Camaro, so yes different. In fact, the only real retro I'm seeing on the new Camaro is the gauge layout and some of the gauge styling, the rest of it is very modern from what I've seen. The Camaro as a whole (inside and out) looks to me to be a modern, stylized, reminder of the past without being a copy of it. Obviously this is all opinion and no one's is any better than anyone elses. For me, I still like what I'm seeing and I'm still looking to get one of these bad boys as soon as I can after it's available.

these interior pics worry me greatly.....if that interior is (roughly) what we can expect, i will not be buying the new camaro. a large majority of the population will also view it negatively. i can't understand how chevy can have a beautiful vette interior, beautiful malibu interior, beautiful tahoe interior and such utter ugliness in those pics. even a lowly 1984 3rd gen had dashboard lines easier on the eyes than this car.....very very disappointed.

a large majority of the population will also view it negatively.

HAHAHA The interior matches very closely to the concept and GM has recieved VERY positive feedback on that so how can you say that??? Were are you getting your information? I think the complete opposite from you does that make me an expert on what the "large Majority of the population" is going to think???? :shrug:

HAHAHA The interior matches very closely to the concept and GM has recieved VERY positive feedback on that so how can you say that??? Were are you getting your information? I think the complete opposite from you does that make me an expert on what the "large Majority of the population" is going to think???? :shrug:

I can only speak for the several dozen of us I spoke to at the unveiling, two years ago. The interior was BY FAR the least liked item on the concept.

Plus, I'd like to see your data that GM has recieved "VERY positive feedback" on it.

I can only speak for the several dozen of us I spoke to at the unveiling, two years ago. The interior was BY FAR the least liked item on the concept.

Plus, I'd like to see your data that GM has recieved "VERY positive feedback" on it.

My data comes from Scott :D See him for more information :cool:

Plus, I'd like to see your data that GM has recieved "VERY positive feedback" on it.

My guess is this is all referring to the console gauges. The 1st Gen guys love 'em. Ya know what? As silly as I think they are, they are unique and they wouldn't kill me. What I personally find so offensive are the '57 Chevy headlight bezzles for an IP and the design themes of the rest of the dash.

My data comes from Scott :D See him for more information :cool:


Oh trust me, I've seen him about it. And that's not what a group of us heard about it the month after the intro.

My guess is this is all referring to the console gauges. The 1st Gen guys love 'em. Ya know what? As silly as I think they are, they are unique and they wouldn't kill me. What I personally find so offensive are the '57 Chevy headlight bezzles for an IP and the design themes of the rest of the dash.Love the console gauges but while the '57 Chevy headlight bezels don't offend be, the 1950's retro speedo and tach don't fit imho. I'd prefer a more modern interpretation. HUD would fix a lot of ills though.

the 1950's retro speedo and tach don't fit imho. I'd prefer a more modern interpretation. HUD would fix a lot of ills though.

How many times have I said it.....don't force me to pay for HUD because I can't stand the corny retro font on the gauges.....this redundancy is just an extremely silly way to design something.

What I personally find so offensive are the '57 Chevy headlight bezzles for an IP and the design themes of the rest of the dash.


Me too. They hurt my eyes when I look at them.

Oh trust me, I've seen him about it. And that's not what a group of us heard about it the month after the intro.

Charlie, are you saying he was lying? Who was this group and who did they hear otherwise from?

HAHAHA The interior matches very closely to the concept and GM has recieved VERY positive feedback on that so how can you say that??? Were are you getting your information? I think the complete opposite from you does that make me an expert on what the "large Majority of the population" is going to think???? :shrug:

further evidence on what the population thinks: at work today, i showed these pics to 12 random 25-40 year olds of both sexes. some are enthusiasts, and some weren't.

results:
not a single one of them liked what they saw. when i told them what car the interior belonged to they were aghast and stupefied. they all liked the exterior, but all disapproved of the interior.

Charlie, are you saying he was lying? Who was this group and who did they hear otherwise from?


Hey Jason, I'm not saying anyone was lying. I'm saying that shortly after the unveiling we all had a GTG in Chicago, and most of us had some serious concerns about the interior. And I'm not going to publicly say/confirm/deny anything that was shared there - if anything was at all.

The take away was, that Camaro would probably get an interior much less bizzare than the concept's

Well I'm already modding the shifter to as close as the concept I can find...looks like I'll have to change the rest too... :(

Hey Jason, I'm not saying anyone was lying. I'm saying that shortly after the unveiling we all had a GTG in Chicago, and most of us had some serious concerns about the interior. And I'm not going to publicly say/confirm/deny anything that was shared there - if anything was at all.

The take away was, that Camaro would probably get an interior much less bizzare than the concept's
Surely you're not going to try and claim this is some kind of scientific result? Since you are known to be opposed to the design, isn't it logical for readers here to assume, you likely influenced the discussion you experienced? For that matter, perhaps your recollection is tainted by your preferences as well.

How many times have I said it.....don't force me to pay for HUD because I can't stand the corny retro font on the gauges.....this redundancy is just an extremely silly way to design something.
Well my opinion is just the opposite. I like the gauges... and would also like to see a HUD, if it happens.

further evidence on what the population thinks: at work today, i showed these pics to 12 random 25-40 year olds of both sexes. some are enthusiasts, and some weren't.

results:
not a single one of them liked what they saw. when i told them what car the interior belonged to they were aghast and stupefied. they all liked the exterior, but all disapproved of the interior.
This is a flawed experiment. Reasons:
1. There is no evidence your colleagues have intent to buy a Camaro someday. I'm 48... does that meant I cannot get one?
2. Those pix are not representative of a production interior. OF COURSE people are going to have weird reactions to them.
3. The pix could not have been presented in the full context of the production car, with all its features, value, and price points explained... since ther are not known by anyone at this time.

Surely you're not going to try and claim this is some kind of scientific result? Since you are known to be opposed to the design, isn't it logical for readers here to assume, you likely influenced the discussion you experienced? For that matter, perhaps your recollection is tainted by your preferences as well.

Why does everything have to be so cold and "scientific"? If a group of Camaro guys have a casual discussion over a cocktail or two about how or why they are put off by the interior design....then maybe that's the way it is. Sorry, but no one is going to be able to convince everyone that this interior is the greatest-looking thing ever, pre-production or not.....

Why does everything have to be so cold and "scientific"? If a group of Camaro guys have a casual discussion over a cocktail or two about how or why they are put off by the interior design....then maybe that's the way it is. Sorry, but no one is going to be able to convince everyone that this interior is the greatest-looking thing ever, pre-production or not.....
Maybe he wasn't trying to claim it was 'scientific'. But the implication is there, as soon as he said 'we all', that it was some kind of widespread result. Instead, the reality might have been, 'we all' was five or six guys who happened to all have the same opinion or mind set going in to the conversation, (hence, the reason they were all at the same bar or whatever). And I would also still maintain, knowing his feelings on the design, there's a reasonably good chance he 'drove' the discussion and had undue influence on his peers. JM02.

This is a flawed experiment. Reasons:
1. There is no evidence your colleagues have intent to buy a Camaro someday. I'm 48... does that meant I cannot get one?
2. Those pix are not representative of a production interior. OF COURSE people are going to have weird reactions to them.
3. The pix could not have been presented in the full context of the production car, with all its features, value, and price points explained... since ther are not known by anyone at this time.

incorrect: the experiment worked as advertised: note my target was the general population, not necessarily potential camaro buyers. although, even worse for chevy, some of the participants WERE in fact potential buyers. nevermind the hundreds of die-hard owners on this very board that do not like what we are seeing.

secondly, it was explained that these pics were rough mockups and still not a single person cared for the sheer lack of flow, jarring, and bulbous pieces....most likened it to mattel products. just what we needed in a brand new ground up camaro....negative opinions on the interior.....sounds familiar???

thirdly, gm needs to entice younger buyers with this car as it's market share is not increasing anytime soon. if younger buyers in the < 40 target group are being turned away by the interior, exactly how profitable do you think this car will be in the > 45 group? i believe the corvette already has that group well covered (and with a beautiful interior too i might add).

How about this poll from this site that dates from back when the concept first appeared? The retro interior is losing 90-160. http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/showthread.php?t=420780

Maybe it's not a scientific, controlled marketing study, but it's pretty hard to discount it losing almost 2:1 on a camaro enthusiast site. Then factor in the population at large that has never even seen the interior of a 69 camaro, much less sat in one.

Surely you're not going to try and claim this is some kind of scientific result? Since you are known to be opposed to the design, isn't it logical for readers here to assume, you likely influenced the discussion you experienced? For that matter, perhaps your recollection is tainted by your preferences as well.

Maybe he wasn't trying to claim it was 'scientific'. But the implication is there, as soon as he said 'we all', that it was some kind of widespread result. Instead, the reality might have been, 'we all' was five or six guys who happened to all have the same opinion or mind set going in to the conversation, (hence, the reason they were all at the same bar or whatever). And I would also still maintain, knowing his feelings on the design, there's a reasonably good chance he 'drove' the discussion and had undue influence on his peers. JM02.

One question...

Do you have any sort of point whatsoever?


Because it sounds like you're simply blathering on aimlessly. JMHO :)

incorrect: the experiment worked as advertised: note my target was the general population, not necessarily potential camaro buyers. although, even worse for chevy, some of the participants WERE in fact potential buyers. nevermind the hundreds of die-hard owners on this very board that do not like what we are seeing.
So let me get this right. You expect a random group of folks, some of whom drive Honda Civics and don't even know what a 'center IP stack' is, to like the half-done interior pix? The ones with test gear clutter, electrical tape, pre-production fits and finishes, and nerdy fuel warning labels? Oh. Ok :rolleyes:
secondly, it was explained that these pics were rough mockups and still not a single person cared for the sheer lack of flow, jarring, and bulbous pieces....most likened it to mattel products. just what we needed in a brand new ground up camaro....negative opinions on the interior.....sounds familiar???
I'd wager it did, once you led their opinion to match what is obviously yours.
thirdly, gm needs to entice younger buyers with this car as it's market share is not increasing anytime soon. if younger buyers in the < 40 target group are being turned away by the interior, exactly how profitable do you think this car will be in the > 45 group? i believe the corvette already has that group well covered (and with a beautiful interior too i might add).
No one will know for sure how this interior appeals to buyers (whether young OR old) until a PRODUCTION interior is ready for them to sit in and try driving, with a known set of features and price points. A baker could show me pix of his best donuts... but I'd not be able to render much of a reasoned opinion unless/until I saw, touched and tasted them, and knew the price. Do people look at donuts, or eat them?
How about this poll from this site that dates from back when the concept first appeared? The retro interior is losing 90-160. http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/showthread.php?t=420780

Maybe it's not a scientific, controlled marketing study, but it's pretty hard to discount it losing almost 2:1 on a camaro enthusiast site.
Not hard at all, to discount it. Especially once one notices that in the FIRST post of that thread, the OP made it yet another 'push' poll, by tainting it with his own preferences in stating "It doesn't seem like anybody is for a retro-themed interior, especially retro guages/guage pod. So, just to get some highly unscientific numbers, who likes or doesn't mind the retro interior..."
Do you have any sort of point whatsoever?
Sure. It's that a few persistently negative folks here are trying to create an overblown perception of huge torch-waving mobs hating on the new Camaro interior, when (1) there is no impartial evidence that such a mob has ever been mustered, and (2) such a mob has no rational reason to congregate since no finished details on the interior are even available. But torch on if you like :)

Yup you can hate it but Im going to LOVE mine! I think it looks killer, I love the placement of the gauges wouldnt change any of it!

So let me get this right. You expect a random group of folks, some of whom drive Honda Civics and don't even know what a 'center IP stack' is, to like the half-done interior pix? The ones with test gear clutter, electrical tape, pre-production fits and finishes, and nerdy fuel warning labels? Oh. Ok :rolleyes:

umm, i think not mr rolleyes......i did not expect anything from a random population poll.....i had no idea what would come of it. your point about laymen knowing about an IP stack is moot at best.....what's important here is normal folks, including some camaro potentials are disliking the gaudy lines and plain ugliness of the basic layout....regardless of tape, clutter etc etc. these are minor issues you are addressing, bottom line is the GENERAL layout is displeasing to most. even on the concept all dressed up it still looked ugly. oh, and those guys in civics know a lot more about cars, camaros, and ip stacks than you might think. platinum logic with the generalizations :uhoh:

I'd wager it did, once you led their opinion to match what is obviously yours.

sure, you were there and saw/heard what i asked them......i'd wager something else, but i'll remain diplomatic here

No one will know for sure how this interior appeals to buyers (whether young OR old) until a PRODUCTION interior is ready for them to sit in and try driving, with a known set of features and price points. A baker could show me pix of his best donuts... but I'd not be able to render much of a reasoned opinion unless/until I saw, touched and tasted them, and knew the price. Do people look at donuts, or eat them?

but if a baker shows you a picture of said proposed donut and it's ROUND, and then he finally makes it and its ROUND with some nice frosting on the top, i believe the underlying donut would still be ROUND.

if it walks like a duck (concept), looks like a duck (latest pics) and smells like a duck (sure starting to smell like one to me) then it must be a stinking duck.

i believe Z284ever has made the best summary

umm, i think not mr rolleyes......i did not expect anything from a random population poll.....i had no idea what would come of it. your point about laymen knowing about an IP stack is moot at best.....what's important here is normal folks, including some camaro potentials are disliking the gaudy lines and plain ugliness of the basic layout....regardless of tape, clutter etc etc. these are minor issues you are addressing, bottom line is the GENERAL layout is displeasing to most. even on the concept all dressed up it still looked ugly. oh, and those guys in civics know a lot more about cars, camaros, and ip stacks than you might think. platinum logic with the generalizations
Sorry. I don't believe, even a teeny bit, that the TYPICAL Honda owner knows or cares much about car design. The VAST majority of Civic owners view their car as a shiny, quiet appliance for getting around... nothing more. The Camaro is not MEANT to entice the 'average car buyer'. It's for a specific group of folks who enjoy cars, want a personal connection with a sporty coupe, and most likely also understand the Camaro's awesome street and racing heritage. Not your typical minivan buyer :o

I also refuse to believe anyone can make a rational judgement about the Camaro interior, based on the pix seen so far, with so much still missing and unknown.

sure, you were there and saw/heard what i asked them......i'd wager something else, but i'll remain diplomatic here
It's clear you don't like it. Am I supposed to believe you were singing its praises?
but if a baker shows you a picture of said proposed donut and it's ROUND, and then he finally makes it and its ROUND with some nice frosting on the top, i believe the underlying donut would still be ROUND...
I can relate that some might not like the way they perceive the design to be heading. But it's foolish to write it off without seeing (and more importantly DRIVING in) the production interior before deciding.

Sorry. I don't believe, even a teeny bit, that the TYPICAL Honda owner knows or cares much about car design. The VAST majority of Civic owners view their car as a shiny, quiet appliance for getting around... nothing more. The Camaro is not MEANT to entice the 'average car buyer'. It's for a specific group of folks who enjoy cars, want a personal connection with a sporty coupe, and most likely also understand the Camaro's awesome street and racing heritage. Not your typical minivan buyer :o

I also refuse to believe anyone can make a rational judgement about the Camaro interior, based on the pix seen so far, with so much still missing and unknown.


It's clear you don't like it. Am I supposed to believe you were singing its praises?

I can relate that some might not like the way they perceive the design to be heading. But it's foolish to write it off without seeing (and more importantly DRIVING in) the production interior before deciding.

everyone has their opinion and they're entitled to it.

i will end with a stark reminder to chevy: one of the principal reasons the last camaro failed was because of a cheap, flimsy, and undesirable interior. oddly, the new model looks to be aesthetically worse than it's predecessor.....history is doomed to repeat itself if we do not learn from it. i can just hear the automotive press, and mustang boys rubbing their fat bellies laughing at us again driving a car with gauges on the floor.

everyone has their opinion and they're entitled to it.

i will end with a stark reminder to chevy: one of the principal reasons the last camaro failed was because of a cheap, flimsy, and undesirable interior. oddly, the new model looks to be aesthetically worse than it's predecessor.....history is doomed to repeat itself if we do not learn from it. i can just hear the automotive press, and mustang boys rubbing their fat bellies laughing at us again driving a car with gauges on the floor.

You're right about everyone and their opinion. But I will also add a stark reminder. No one yet knows what all will be in the production Camaro... how much it will cost... or how well it will all work together. It seems mighty premature to me, for folks to be making such sweeping generalizations about it at this point. And comparing it to the 4gen? There were a LOT more aesthetic issues with the 4gen interior, compared to what seems to be shaping up for the new Camaro (from what little we know). The high, deep dash; the cat hump in the floor; and yes the primitive build quality, at least by today's standards. I have full faith, based on the other vehicles Chevy now puts out (Silverado, Malibu, C6 to name a few) that those days are long gone. Too bad for you, if you have no faith.

Mustang guys... won't be doing much laughing at the new Camaro. They'll be looking a lot at its taillights :D

everyone has their opinion and they're entitled to it.

i will end with a stark reminder to chevy: one of the principal reasons the last camaro failed was because of a cheap, flimsy, and undesirable interior. oddly, the new model looks to be aesthetically worse than it's predecessor.....history is doomed to repeat itself if we do not learn from it. i can just hear the automotive press, and mustang boys rubbing their fat bellies laughing at us again driving a car with gauges on the floor.

I laugh every time I read one of your posts..... The camaro didnt fail cause it was "flimsy" lol it failed because they (GM) didnt put any money into it...... This is has turned into another one of those retarded threads .... And I agree 100% with BigDarknFast :D

I laugh every time I read one of your posts..... The camaro didnt fail cause it was "flimsy" lol it failed because they (GM) didnt put any money into it...... This is has turned into another one of those retarded threads .... And I agree 100% with BigDarknFast :D

i refuse to get into a battle of logic, perception, and facts with an unarmed opponent :eek: :eek:

I'd also suggest that you consider not getting into a battle of facts, because yours are incorrect.

I'd also suggest that you consider not getting into a battle of facts, because yours are incorrect.

Sorry...but I disagree....here are a few 'facts' I've previously mentioned:

fact: last camaro had a low-rent k-mart interior which was one of the motivating factors that drove potential customers over to mustangs, and other cars with better built innards.

fact: some 160 persons on this board have voted negative on the concept interior.

fact: only 90 persons on this board voted favorable to the the concept interior.

fact: if gm does not entice a larger audience, and younger buyers with this vehicle (than it did with the 4th gen) it will fail.

The Camaro is not MEANT to entice the 'average car buyer'.

I'm not so sure that's true.

I think that what GM would like to see happen is that a bunch of enthusiasts go out and buy it at first. Then the average car buyer starts to see it on the street and thinks, "Hey, Chevrolet is building some great-looking cars!" The Malibu is already contributing to that mindset. Maybe he's seen a headline or two in the newspaper or a series of advertisements on TV about the new Camaro's return after so many years away, and he's wondering what all of the excitement is about.

So this average car buyer thinks that maybe he should swing by the Chevrolet dealership the next time he's in the market for a new car. He does. He sees the Camaro and takes a look at the sticker. He's surprised at how affordable it is, and at the excellent fuel economy numbers. He climbs inside and notices how the car just seems to "fit". Everything is right where he can reach it.

He calls a salesman over and asks for a test drive. On the road, he finds that the "fit" wasn't just a feeling. This is a car that's exciting, even when he's doing 20mph. He can feel what the car is doing through the steering wheel and through the pedals, both of which respond to his movements perfectly. He's not sitting on the seat, he's sitting in it. Through all of this, he realizes that driving can be exciting, and still be affordable and economical at the same time, and he ends up buying a Camaro.

If GM plays their cards right (and I have faith that they will), all of this will play out for the base model just as well as it will for the topline model. The decision will simply be a matter of price and preference.

Now, for the love of Scott, quit judging the interior before it's finished. ;)

fact: last camaro had a low-rent k-mart interior which was one of the motivating factors that drove potential customers over to mustangs, and other cars with better built innards.

When the last 4th gen interior was released (model year 1997), it was on par with pretty much everything else out there (even Audi was only just getting on their interior game at the time). It was a little long in the tooth by it's sixth and final year in production (2002).

I'm not saying it's a great interior, but I happen to like most of the design. The cupholders (one poorly placed, one flimsy) and the turn signal stalk (cheapest part in the bin) are really the only things that bug me. Sure, I could do without the converter hump, but it really doesn't bother me.

On the other hand, I love the seats, the wraparound IP, the shifter position, the view of the road ahead, and tons of other little things. I like the simple functionality of the gauges. Nothing fancy -- just conveying the critical information. It may not look as good as a modern interior, but all of the controls are where I expect them to be, and they're easy to reach.

Let's be fair. Let's compare this interior against its contemporaries. Find me something 1997 or older that is clearly better. I'm sure there are a few, but it's not like GM was slacking on this.

Sorry...but I disagree....here are a few 'facts' I've previously mentioned:

fact: last camaro had a low-rent k-mart interior which was one of the motivating factors that drove potential customers over to mustangs, and other cars with better built innards.

fact: some 160 persons on this board have voted negative on the concept interior.

fact: only 90 persons on this board voted favorable to the the concept interior.

fact: if gm does not entice a larger audience, and younger buyers with this vehicle (than it did with the 4th gen) it will fail.
Your first 'fact' is the closest to being worthy of being called one. Still, I'd be interested to see your proof. 'Facts' are supposed to be something a person can substantiate with a source. Got one?

These other 'facts' regarding the polls from herein - aren't those just compilations of opinions? Poorly informed ones at that, since respondents could not actually experience the interior first-hand?

And for predicting failure. You have absolutely no basis for such a conclusion. PROFIT is what makes a vehicle succeed or fail. Do you know the new Camaro's breakeven point? Its overall costs, options and equipment, pricing, sales volumes and likely profits? No? Didn't think so. Let the experts figure it out, please.

When the last 4th gen interior was released (model year 1997), it was on par with pretty much everything else out there (even Audi was only just getting on their interior game at the time). It was a little long in the tooth by it's sixth and final year in production (2002).

I'm not saying it's a great interior, but I happen to like most of the design. The cupholders (one poorly placed, one flimsy) and the turn signal stalk (cheapest part in the bin) are really the only things that bug me. Sure, I could do without the converter hump, but it really doesn't bother me.

On the other hand, I love the seats, the wraparound IP, the shifter position, the view of the road ahead, and tons of other little things. I like the simple functionality of the gauges. Nothing fancy -- just conveying the critical information. It may not look as good as a modern interior, but all of the controls are where I expect them to be, and they're easy to reach.

Let's be fair. Let's compare this interior against its contemporaries. Find me something 1997 or older that is clearly better. I'm sure there are a few, but it's not like GM was slacking on this.
This is a good point. I've loved the 4gen's I've owned, including the interiors. In their time, they were well-equipped (twin airbags with 5-star crashworthiness, ergonomic steering wheel stereo controls, versatile hatchback and folding rear seat, t-tops, etc). They had some issues - which are naturally more obvious now as technology has progressed.

I'm not so sure that's true.

I think that what GM would like to see happen is that a bunch of enthusiasts go out and buy it at first. Then the average car buyer starts to see it on the street and thinks, "Hey, Chevrolet is building some great-looking cars!" The Malibu is already contributing to that mindset. Maybe he's seen a headline or two in the newspaper or a series of advertisements on TV about the new Camaro's return after so many years away, and he's wondering what all of the excitement is about.

So this average car buyer thinks that maybe he should swing by the Chevrolet dealership the next time he's in the market for a new car. He does. He sees the Camaro and takes a look at the sticker. He's surprised at how affordable it is, and at the excellent fuel economy numbers. He climbs inside and notices how the car just seems to "fit". Everything is right where he can reach it.

He calls a salesman over and asks for a test drive. On the road, he finds that the "fit" wasn't just a feeling. This is a car that's exciting, even when he's doing 20mph. He can feel what the car is doing through the steering wheel and through the pedals, both of which respond to his movements perfectly. He's not sitting on the seat, he's sitting in it. Through all of this, he realizes that driving can be exciting, and still be affordable and economical at the same time, and he ends up buying a Camaro.

If GM plays their cards right (and I have faith that they will), all of this will play out for the base model just as well as it will for the topline model. The decision will simply be a matter of price and preference.

Now, for the love of Scott, quit judging the interior before it's finished. ;)
I can fervently relate to a lot in that post. I totally agree, that car enthusiasts are going to anticipate and enjoy the new Camaro as you've described. However. I still do not believe this is a car for 'everyone'. Some people simply do not care how well-connected they are to their cars, nor how unique the styling is. They do not 'thrill' to drive them and feel tight steering etc. The 'average' buyer simply wants an anonymous car that's cheap, safe, reliable. That's all!

The 'average' buyer simply wants an anonymous car that's cheap, safe, reliable. That's all!

First, I'm going to nitpick your list a little. They want affordable, not cheap. Also, "economical" needs to be on the list too. I don't think you'll object to either of those clarifications. :)

So, given the choice between:

1. affordable, safe, economical, reliable, and boring
2. affordable, safe, economical, reliable, and stylish

Tons of people will pick the latter. I think that a large part of what GM is trying to do is get people to realize that Camaro is exactly that.

I don't think there will be any issue with people not thinking Camaro is stylish. The problem arises with the first four items on the list.

Affordable:
A lot of people I've spoken to (who have only seen the concept and have only a passing interest at this point) are under the impression that Camaro is going to be a $40,000 car. It looks like a million bucks, so I really can't blame them, but GM needs to get out there as soon as this car is available and start publicizing the price!

Safe:
Tons of people automatically assume that sports cars aren't safe. Camaro's crash ratings need to be touted big time. GM should bring attention to the safety benefits of better handling and braking, too.

Economical and Reliable:
There are some misconceptions that modern GM cars are unreliable and/or uneconomical, and obviously those need to be squashed as quickly as possible. There is also the myth that a sports car automatically gets bad gas mileage, and it's once again the responsibility of the marketing team to make sure that the public knows that Camaro gets great fuel economy.

So maybe they won't pick Camaro for the way it feels when you drive it, but rest assured that if they buy one for all of the other reasons I've mentioned, they'll come to appreciate that too. And that is how you generate return business. :cool:

Again, I have faith that GM is going to get this one right. :D

First, I'm going to nitpick your list a little. They want affordable, not cheap. Also, "economical" needs to be on the list too. I don't think you'll object to either of those clarifications. :)

So, given the choice between:

1. affordable, safe, economical, reliable, and boring
2. affordable, safe, economical, reliable, and stylish

....
Again, I have faith that GM is going to get this one right. :D
Well I agree with a lot of what you said. GM does and will need to get the word out about the new Camaro. And we certainly do need to have faith that the car will turn out right.

But we are so not on the same wavelength about the styling issue. You need to talk to my bro-in-law. He bought a new Honda Civic a few years ago, and now has over 100k on it. He couldn't have possibly cared less about its styling, then or now. I doubt he has even washed it once. He cares massively about 'cheap' (for me, that's a shorter, easier, synonym for 'affordable and economical'), and 'reliable'. There are a lot of folks like him - and they are not going to flock to stores to buy a new Camaro, nor should the car be designed to entice them to.

GM will consider the car a success if 90,000 units sell the first year with the concept style dash. What wont be known is that the possibilty exists at 120,000 sales with a different style dash. GM will be thinking we did good but will never know if they could have done better.

GM will consider the car a success if 90,000 units sell the first year with the concept style dash. What wont be known is that the possibilty exists at 120,000 sales with a different style dash. GM will be thinking we did good but will never know if they could have done better.

excellent point

GM will consider the car a success if 90,000 units sell the first year with the concept style dash. What wont be known is that the possibilty exists at 120,000 sales with a different style dash. GM will be thinking we did good but will never know if they could have done better.

You dont think GM has already played with these numbers? They do this **** for a living! Whose to say it isnt the other way around? 120,000 with the dash the way it is and 90,000 with a futuristic dash that doesnt fit the design intent of the car!

You dont think GM has already played with these numbers? They do this **** for a living! Whose to say it isnt the other way around? 120,000 with the dash the way it is and 90,000 with a futuristic dash that doesnt fit the design intent of the car!
excellent point

GM might have people doing this for a living, but if you check their US car and light truck market share the last five years, maybe they arent doing that good of a job. I'm not talking about a futuristic dash design, just one that doesnt have a Dolly Parton chest in your face. That dual guage pod mess just doesnt cut it in my book. Maybe GM has the time to change it and do the right thing.

a Dolly Parton chest in your face

:think:

:)

:drool:

I'm not talking about a futuristic dash design, just one that doesnt have a Dolly Parton chest in your face. That dual guage pod mess just doesnt cut it in my book. Maybe GM has the time to change it and do the right thing.

Again, you dont think GM has already considered that? or is working on refining it? you are basing all this hostility on a pre production interior you saw in a poor quality picture. Your "book" is flawed in the fact that you dont have all the data, you havent seen, touched or even sat behind Dolly Partons chest to be able to formulate this opinion. Come back and bitch once you have done at least one of the above.... Till then Im going to assume that GM, who has been designing cars a hell of alot longer than you has fully understood the ramifications of there interior choice.

Again, you dont think GM has already considered that? or is working on refining it? you are basing all this hostility on a pre production interior you saw in a poor quality picture. Your "book" is flawed in the fact that you dont have all the data, you havent seen, touched or even sat behind Dolly Partons chest to be able to formulate this opinion. Come back and bitch once you have done at least one of the above.... Till then Im going to assume that GM, who has been designing cars a hell of alot longer than you has fully understood the ramifications of there interior choice.

The problem with your argument is that you are supposing that because GM has done this for so long, they can't fail. This of course is wrong. Every car maker makes mistakes, no matter how long they have been making cars. It will always happen, no matter how hard they "crunch the numbers". You can't fully predict what the public will think, especially when you have to predict a few years into the future.

I have a feeling that the retro interior will grow stale quickly. I also think that the next Mustang will differentiate itself by being more modern and move away from a retro interior. This is going to leave the Challenger and Camaro behind. I don't see the Challenger lasting for more than a few model years. It's just seems like too much of a niche product. It will do well and trail off fast.

Why do people still think that the interior might change? With cars being sold a year from now, what you see is what you get, although the parts will be assembled without tape and other crude temporary fastening devices.

The problem with your argument is that you are supposing that because GM has done this for so long, they can't fail. This of course is wrong. Every car maker makes mistakes, no matter how long they have been making cars. It will always happen, no matter how hard they "crunch the numbers". You can't fully predict what the public will think, especially when you have to predict a few years into the future.
I'm not convinced he argued that 'since GM's done this for so long, they're perfect at it'. I think it's more like "since GM's done this for so long, they are much better than US AMATEUR CAR DESIGNERS at it".
I have a feeling that the retro interior will grow stale quickly. I also think that the next Mustang will differentiate itself by being more modern and move away from a retro interior. This is going to leave the Challenger and Camaro behind. I don't see the Challenger lasting for more than a few model years. It's just seems like too much of a niche product. It will do well and trail off fast.
I've also read the next Mustang will have more of a mainstream design. If so, I believe that will be a mistake by Ford... possibly even up on the scale of the disastrous modern Thunderbird. The 05+ Mustang's success was very dependent on its great alignment with Mustang heritage. Domestics have a key advantage in the affordable RWD coupe niche - rich, inspiring, American racing and street heritage. If Mustang strays from that, they will be going up directly against cars like the new Hyundai RWD coupe, with no helmet or kevlar.
Why do people still think that the interior might change? With cars being sold a year from now, what you see is what you get, although the parts will be assembled without tape and other crude temporary fastening devices.
FBF has himself told us - the spy pix show an interior that's about 65% done. If he had said "95%"... that'd be different. You can either believe him, and do the logical thing (wait to see how the interior works, FEELS, and looks, in a PRODUCTION car)... or jump ahead to your own conclusions in the meantime. FBF has been right on so many things Camaro, I for one... am riding with HIM in the next street race* :D

( *I do not condone street racing. That was only a figure of speech ;) )

I've also read the next Mustang will have more of a mainstream design. If so, I believe that will be a mistake by Ford... possibly even up on the scale of the disastrous modern Thunderbird. The 05+ Mustang's success was very dependent on its great alignment with Mustang heritage. Domestics have a key advantage in the affordable RWD coupe niche - rich, inspiring, American racing and street heritage. If Mustang strays from that, they will be going up directly against cars like the new Hyundai RWD coupe, with no helmet or kevlar.

Are you talking about the "modern Thunderbird" that was a total retro job? If so, that is not a good parallel. You seem to forget that the '05+ Mustang did not sell much or any better than the previous car. The Mustang will sell no matter what Ford does and I have a feeling they will be alright. There is a reason that Ford is changing the strategy with the Mustang. You can't stay with a retro anything otherwise it will go stale fast. Ford is doing the right thing. Come to think of it, we still have not seen a retro car go into the next generation or survive to the next generation. Interesting.

FBF has himself told us - the spy pix show an interior that's about 65% done. If he had said "95%"... that'd be different. You can either believe him, and do the logical thing (wait to see how the interior works, FEELS, and looks, in a PRODUCTION car)... or jump ahead to your own conclusions in the meantime. FBF has been right on so many things Camaro, I for one... am riding with HIM in the next street race* :D

I have a feeling that the 65% means that it is 65% put together, but I think that the design of what we saw was 95% of what we will see.

The interior is a done deal. Why BD&F has suddenly become so apoplectic about people not liking it, I have no idea.

As always, GM has made their decison on this, and we can buy the Camaro or not buy it.

Personally, even if I don't like it, I hope people will buy the crap out of it.

Are you talking about the "modern Thunderbird" that was a total retro job? If so, that is not a good parallel. You seem to forget that the '05+ Mustang did not sell much or any better than the previous car. The Mustang will sell no matter what Ford does and I have a feeling they will be alright. There is a reason that Ford is changing the strategy with the Mustang. You can't stay with a retro anything otherwise it will go stale fast. Ford is doing the right thing. Come to think of it, we still have not seen a retro car go into the next generation or survive to the next generation. Interesting.
Actually the TBird is proof the Mustang will NOT necessarily 'sell regardless what Ford does to it'. It wasn't "retro" that doomed the new TBird. It was a set of other design and marketing decisions:
1. Ford had two internal competing design drafts for the car. One, primarily designed by a female design crew, was soft and rounded in the hopes of attracting female Sebring vert buyers. The other, a harder-edged design by another team, was rejected as too macho.
2. Ford completed the new Tbird's poser persona, with a weak V8 as top powertrain.
3. To top it off, Ford's ad campaign took pride in poser defeat. One commercial showed a male Tbird driver sitting at a red light... a true sports car pulls up beside him (Ferrari maybe?)... revs up... dumps the clutch and is long gone. Ad ends with poser-man sitting their with an indiotic grin on his face and some kind of trite catch-phrase voiceover. Duh.

I can gladly name other Ford mistakes if you like, such as the Ford Focus quality-disaster fiasco or the 1996 Ovoid Taurus.

T-bird failed for a smorgasboard of reasons. It was a soft, feminine-looking car (even offered in "feminine" colors!) that was horribly overpriced and underpowered. It was poorly marketed as BD&F mentioned. The retro styling of it sealed the deal -- I just don't think the 50's Bird (or C1 Corvette for that matter) have styling that translate well into a modern rendition of the car.

As for Mustang, I think the direction shift that Ford is going to pull for 2010 is sheer brilliance. While Camaro and Challenger offer almost "been-there, done-that" styling after just 1 or 2 model years, Mustang will have an aggressive new face -- surely with some heritage, but you won't be able to so blatantly trace its lines back to a very specific model year window.

A new thread was just posted with Ed Welburn's rebuttal to the internet "bashing" of the interior spy pics. It would seem that GM has heard from more than just a small handful of fanatics on this site about it. What's disappointing is that it seems Mr. Welburn doesn't even understand the crux of the argument -- we all know it's far from finished, but the general theme of it is set -- and that's what some of us don't like.

Actually the TBird is proof the Mustang will NOT necessarily 'sell regardless what Ford does to it'. It wasn't "retro" that doomed the new TBird. It was a set of other design and marketing decisions:
1. Ford had two internal competing design drafts for the car. One, primarily designed by a female design crew, was soft and rounded in the hopes of attracting female Sebring vert buyers. The other, a harder-edged design by another team, was rejected as too macho.
2. Ford completed the new Tbird's poser persona, with a weak V8 as top powertrain.
3. To top it off, Ford's ad campaign took pride in poser defeat. One commercial showed a male Tbird driver sitting at a red light... a true sports car pulls up beside him (Ferrari maybe?)... revs up... dumps the clutch and is long gone. Ad ends with poser-man sitting their with an indiotic grin on his face and some kind of trite catch-phrase voiceover. Duh.

I can gladly name other Ford mistakes if you like, such as the Ford Focus quality-disaster fiasco or the 1996 Ovoid Taurus.


There is a variety of reasons why the T-bird failed, but I wouldn't bring that one up to prove a point about retro and the Camaro. Also, we are not talking about Ford's mistakes, which they have many, we are talking about the Mustang. Like I have said, and Z28Wilson mentioned, the Mustang will be moving ahead with their modern redesign, while the Camaro will still be playing catch up. The Mustang redesign has the potential to make the Camaro and Challenger look foolish and dated. If the Camaro doesn't get this one perfect and because of cafe and other regulations, it will be gone again, maybe for good.

Like I have said, and Z28Wilson mentioned, the Mustang will be moving ahead with their modern redesign, while the Camaro will still be playing catch up. The Mustang redesign has the potential to make the Camaro and Challenger look foolish and dated.

I'd like to make it clear that I'm not bashing Camaro's exterior design at all....from concept through to the pre-production shots, I really do like it. I'm just pointing all of this out from Ford's perspective...and the inevitable perspective of many enthusiasts and non-enthusiasts alike.

The 5th Gen WILL sell despite whatever slick modern design Ford comes out with for Mustang in 2010, I have faith....we'll just have to see how quickly GM will need to counter.

Understood. I wasn't trying to speak for you in relation to the Camaro design. It will look bad on GM if the Camaro has to react again and follow the Mustang down whatever path Ford decides. At first I thought the Camaro would give GM the upper hand, but it might be the other way around. I just truly hope the Camaro has the staying power in this market for decades to come.

There is a variety of reasons why the T-bird failed, but I wouldn't bring that one up to prove a point about retro and the Camaro. Also, we are not talking about Ford's mistakes, which they have many, we are talking about the Mustang. Like I have said, and Z28Wilson mentioned, the Mustang will be moving ahead with their modern redesign, while the Camaro will still be playing catch up. The Mustang redesign has the potential to make the Camaro and Challenger look foolish and dated. If the Camaro doesn't get this one perfect and because of cafe and other regulations, it will be gone again, maybe for good.
Actually now that I think about it, the TBird is relevant here. It, IMAO, was "retro done wrong". The two key mistakes on the car (aside from the marketing mistakes) were -
1. A retro design was softened, presumably to appeal more to women. This 'revisionist' retro design ended up appealing to no one.
2. The car did not have other compelling features to sell it, such as a stout powertrain offering.

Not all is known yet about the production Camaro. But I seriously doubt those mistakes will be repeated here.

As for Mustang, I think the direction shift that Ford is going to pull for 2010 is sheer brilliance. While Camaro and Challenger offer almost "been-there, done-that" styling after just 1 or 2 model years, Mustang will have an aggressive new face -- surely with some heritage, but you won't be able to so blatantly trace its lines back to a very specific model year window.
I've seen spy pix of the new Stang on the internet. It doesn't seem like much of a bold new design thrust to me, just a sharper, snarkier incarnation of the 69/70 than was the 05+. But of course those were SPY PIX so I will wisely reserve judgment ;) . And BTW - have you seen the car's interior? No?
A new thread was just posted with Ed Welburn's rebuttal to the internet "bashing" of the interior spy pics. It would seem that GM has heard from more than just a small handful of fanatics on this site about it. What's disappointing is that it seems Mr. Welburn doesn't even understand the crux of the argument -- we all know it's far from finished, but the general theme of it is set -- and that's what some of us don't like.
Some don't like... some do. Just like the C6 when it came out. (Remember the melodrama?) "I'll never buy it! No retracting headlights." "Looks too much like a C4/C5/Ferrari". "Looks short." "Hate the corporate steering wheel." Etc, etc. Now it's one of GM's biggest stars. Who knew?

Actually now that I think about it, the TBird is relevant here. It, IMAO, was "retro done wrong". The two key mistakes on the car (aside from the marketing mistakes) were -
1. A retro design was softened, presumably to appeal more to women. This 'revisionist' retro design ended up appealing to no one.
2. The car did not have other compelling features to sell it, such as a stout powertrain offering.

Not all is known yet about the production Camaro. But I seriously doubt those mistakes will be repeated here.

Who says that the design was softened for women? It looks exactly like a modern interpretation of a 195x T-bird. If you asked someone to do just that, that is what you would come up with. There was very little design "surprise" or innovation. If you asked a design group to come up with a modern interpretation of a 1st gen Camaro, guess what you would come up with. The only deviation from the 1st gen formula is in the rear, and that is the part I actually like.

I remember back when the concept came out, people were saying that the car isn't retro, but now with the interior "following the theme of the exterior", it is pretty clear that it is retro. People on this board don't seem to mind, and that is fine.

Who says that the design was softened for women? It looks exactly like a modern interpretation of a 195x T-bird. If you asked someone to do just that, that is what you would come up with. There was very little design "surprise" or innovation. If you asked a design group to come up with a modern interpretation of a 1st gen Camaro, guess what you would come up with. The only deviation from the 1st gen formula is in the rear, and that is the part I actually like.

I remember back when the concept came out, people were saying that the car isn't retro, but now with the interior "following the theme of the exterior", it is pretty clear that it is retro. People on this board don't seem to mind, and that is fine.

I saw indications of that a few years ago in a Detroit News article on the design of the new TBird. Two final concepts were put forth within Ford... and the soft, roundy one won the competition. The article specifically mentioned that the sharper, rejected design likely would have been more popular with men. Sorry I cannot find the article any more, I did search the detnews.com site but they are pretty cheap about keeping archives online.

As for the new Camaro being 'retro' - well I disagree. The car is clearly new, sharp and modern, inside and out. The quarter panels for example - much sharper, big wraparound wheelhouse openings, and shaped akin to those on the new C6.

As for the new Camaro being 'retro' - well I disagree. The car is clearly new, sharp and modern, inside and out. The quarter panels for example - much sharper, big wraparound wheelhouse openings, and shaped akin to those on the new C6.

Remember, retro in this context doesn't refer to "a direct copy", it refers to "a modern interpretation of" in the overall design, and I don't see how you can argue differently. Saying that there are more creases or this bulge is more pronounced or whatever, does not prove your case. These are only minor modern touches applied to an existing design. The design theme is carried from the exterior, to the interior, right? That is why, when you keep arguing that "a modern interior wouldn't fit with the design theme", it only proves the point that the Camaro is indeed a retro car since I think we all can admit that the interior is indeed retro.

I don't know if we need to go down this road again, even though I think I started it.

Remember, retro in this context doesn't refer to "a direct copy", it refers to "a modern interpretation of" in the overall design, and I don't see how you can argue differently. Saying that there are more creases or this bulge is more pronounced or whatever, does not prove your case. These are only minor modern touches applied to an existing design. The design theme is carried from the exterior, to the interior, right? That is why, when you keep arguing that "a modern interior wouldn't fit with the design theme", it only proves the point that the Camaro is indeed a retro car since I think we all can admit that the interior is indeed retro.

I don't know if we need to go down this road again, even though I think I started it.
According to this logic, the C6 is retro too. Many have commented about its C4 design cues, especially in its rear and quarter panels. Guess we better throw out that design too :rolleyes:

According to this logic, the C6 is retro too. Many have commented about its C4 design cues, especially in its rear and quarter panels. Guess we better throw out that design too :rolleyes:

Just because someone says that the C6 looks like a C4, doesn't make it true. I would love to hear someone argue that a C6 is a retro C4, C3, C2, etc. I think that it is very hard to argue that the C6 is anything but an evolution in design. If anything, the C6 has been criticized by being too close in design to a C5. Some in the press have even called it a C5.5.

Just because someone says that the C6 looks like a C4, doesn't make it true. I would love to hear someone argue that a C6 is a retro C4, C3, C2, etc. I think that it is very hard to argue that the C6 is anything but an evolution in design. If anything, the C6 has been criticized by being too close in design to a C5. Some in the press have even called it a C5.5.
In the same vein, just because someone says the new Camaro looks like a 1stgen, doesn't make it true either.

Bottom line - like with those who thought the C6 is not 'different enough' from the C5 - there just is no way to please every single person with a new car design. Designers do their best, then let the buying public decide. Overall it's clear the new Camaro has been very well received... and it will likely be a success.

Back on topic kinda....

Id rather take this...

http://jalopnik.com/assets/images/gallery/12/2008/01/medium_2162921246_7899a67470_o.jpg



Over this (which is the challenger final product)

http://www.eresourcing.com/misc/Challenger/Challenger_Interior_01.jpg

Interesting Challenger pix. I'll wait til I see one in person... but those pix are clearly much further along in development than the Camaro interior pix we all saw. Assuming that's the production stereo head unit, well that's not very promising. Looks like something you'd buy for $59.99 at BestBuy :o

And the HVAC controls... no character what-so-ever. :death:

Yikes, if that is indeed the interior of the Challenger, then the Camaro could definatly have worse. Those pics look strait out of a early 90's Subaru. Dodge interiors have been horrible the past 5 years or so.........actually, I can't really recall one I have ever liked.

My biggest concern with this interior is that it looks like it lacks shoulder room. Compared to a 4th gen it just seems like there is a lot less space between the steering wheel and the door. This is the only deal killer for me, I'm not going to drive a car where my shoulders hit the door. I have broad shoulders and have this problem with the vette. I really hope that the 5th gen has as much if not more room than the 4th gens. There is no reason why dimensions should get smaller, right?
http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jc/images/96firebird_ta_int.jpg
http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2009-chevy-camaro-spy-shots/555824/

My biggest concern with this interior is that it looks like it lacks shoulder room. Compared to a 4th gen it just seems like there is a lot less space between the steering wheel and the door. This is the only deal killer for me, I'm not going to drive a car where my shoulders hit the door. I have broad shoulders and have this problem with the vette. I really hope that the 5th gen has as much if not more room than the 4th gens. There is no reason why dimensions should get smaller, right?
http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jc/images/96firebird_ta_int.jpg
http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2009-chevy-camaro-spy-shots/555824/


It does look a little close. But that could be the angle of the shot. Is it possible the higher beltline makes it look that way as well?

Originally Posted by Z284ever:
The interior is a done deal. Why BD&F has suddenly become so apoplectic about people not liking it, I have no idea.

As always, GM has made their decison on this, and we can buy the Camaro or not buy it.

Personally, even if I don't like it, I hope people will buy the crap out of it.I'm personally hoping we've seen the "base" interior, and the Z28 will get a more "Vette-ish" one.
If I don't like it a lot (as a whole), I might consider waiting out the first year..
(edit typo)

in what version of camaro have the same interior design as what most pictures display or those test driving video and pictures from the official chevy website???? cuz this 1 look like a piece of crappp, totally different
damn pretty disappointed
the v8 version will offer the gorgeous design perhaps?

I seriously doubt...with all my assets, soul and family that there are two totally different interior designs in the works. Where did that idea come from anyway??

I seriously doubt...with all my assets, soul and family that there are two totally different interior designs in the works. Where did that idea come from anyway??

I don't know if I was the first, but I did think of it. I came up with it because they did it on the Silverado/Sierra. :)

I came up with it because they did it on the Silverado/Sierra. :)
Which model year? I'm just curious is all - I'm not trying to be a prick.:shrug:

why GM changes the interior while they'v got the finished design as what the official website display, and they already built it as we can see the video of test drive.

some people might still like this new look but some mightnot because they already like the 1st design and came with great expectation, and now GM disappoint those people.

i thought finally GM managed to create a new era of interior design, and what i mean here is by looking back in 90's to early 2000 where all those exterior changed, but they stayed in the same sort of pattern, such as skyline GTR32-34(square solid outlook) and what happened to GTR35???
i can see the transition with the same characteristic with those 2 round taillight

in this camaro case, it applies for the interior; its simple,less buttons, futuristic/more advanced,etc totally great and i donot find this design concept with current cars available in this year 2008 and surprisingly GM will release it in 2009 WHAT a TRANSITION GM MADE (1year gap with a huge transition design)

well if GM produces the camaro with this ****ty design, i dun find it different with current cars available although the ****ty look still have what the concept trying to deliver. The speedo???somewhat similar (2 square solid outlook), but with different material, and those mph and rpm display are totally different!!!!!the 1st design look like the numbers crafted on the material with light on(simple, elegance, futuristic) and the 2nd design look like all the cars we already got now

I reallty hope GM will still release the 1st concept design with higher price obviously

Which model year? I'm just curious is all - I'm not trying to be a prick.:shrug:

They did it on the GMT900 trucks, which came out last year (MY2007).

Here is the "work truck" interior:
http://www.carbuyersnotebook.com/archives/07silverado4.jpg

And here is the nicer interior (I'm not sure what it's official name is):
http://ebay.windingroad.com/newsuploads/2006/07/2007-Silverado-LTZ-Interior.jpg

They did it on the GMT900 trucks, which came out last year (MY2007).

Here is the "work truck" interior:
http://www.carbuyersnotebook.com/archives/07silverado4.jpg

And here is the nicer interior (I'm not sure what it's official name is):
http://ebay.windingroad.com/newsuploads/2006/07/2007-Silverado-LTZ-Interior.jpg

LTZ, perhaps?;)

Well, that is interesting....I hadn't noticed that before - and I thought I followed the Silverado (specifically) rather closely....apparently not.:irk:

Thanks.:)

They did it on the GMT900 trucks, which came out last year (MY2007).

Here is the "work truck" interior:
http://www.carbuyersnotebook.com/archives/07silverado4.jpg

And here is the nicer interior (I'm not sure what it's official name is):
http://ebay.windingroad.com/newsuploads/2006/07/2007-Silverado-LTZ-Interior.jpg

And there is quite a bit of difference between those two interiors, different gauge bezels, different gauges, different layout.
Clyde

LTZ, perhaps?;)

LTZ is the trim level of the truck itself, not the name of the interior. All Silverado LTZ's get that interior, but you can get it in lower trim levels as well.

hopefully GM release both of interior design like what they did with GMT900

GO GM whats the point of creating such a creative and innovative design without releasing and selling them to public?????????keeping the design in the folder isnt helping the company
set a right and strategic marketing campaign and it will sellllllll cuz the product itself is kick ass and can sell itself!!!!!!!!!! 1 left major issue is PRICE PRICE AND PRICE position

mustang 08 has its own class and talking about ext design, it depends on ones perception to choose between mustang and camaro

but interior??although there are still ppl dont like it, but the fact that GM managed to do innovation and bring the design into new lvl is undeniable!! so whether people like it or not isnt the major issue here cuz there will be always pro and contra

The Interior Sucks period if it comes anything close to the actual production. Remember, the body takes on cue of Retro but reared towards the Comptemplative contouring.

Some mentioned Nintendo Wii game system buttons... I agree! It has too many gauges in the same place underneath of the stereo.... If they are all analog, it would confuse the damn driver making head over tailss as to which is which..... and of all places, that is too low in sight to view while driving!

The whole interior get up sucks. If you are saying that it's cool or hip based on your vehicle interest, so be it. Just check out all of the $30,000 plus vehicles interior on the market and compare to this one. It's a disgraced!

A better hint would be the Mustang Interior comparison to its exterior. I'm referring to the Stangs that our on the market right now. The Interior of the Stang is lousy and cheap.

Would you pay $35,000 plus for this Camaro with such an exterior that resembles anything close to what you see in the picture. I hope you would expect a little more and don't let your interest get the best of your review.

This is a $30k Interior, thus, I hope Chevy improves the build to meet at least this:

http://www.activeone.com/g8/g8interior.jpg

Though we look at these photos as hints, it is all wrong for them to even being posted. If Chevy is that secretive, photos would not even be posted any where. It's been 3 to 4 years and the final production images should be posted instead of these questionable ones. It's no secret that the vehicle will be manufacture in a couple months' time.

The Interior Sucks period if it comes anything close to the actual production....

The whole interior get up sucks. If you are saying that it's cool or hip based on your vehicle interest, so be it. Just check out all of the $30,000 plus vehicles interior on the market and compare to this one. It's a disgraced!

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, my friend. And I will stand up and say I happen to very much like where they're going with the Interior. And I know there are more people than just me on here who liked it as well. Do I think what I saw in those pictures was a good representation, or even a fair representation? HELL No! So I wouldn't Christen it "sucky", or fantabulous for that matter, just yet. I beg you to do the same.

Would you pay $35,000 plus for this Camaro with such an exterior that resembles anything close to what you see in the picture. I hope you would expect a little more and don't let your interest get the best of your review.


I hope you meant to say "Interior." Because if you didn't, most definitely would I pay 30 grand for those body panels!! Hell, If I had it, I'd pay double!

If you did mean interior. No. I would not pay ~30,000 dollars (not sure where you're getting this 35,000 number...) for a gray plastic, drab, not finished, and barely functional interior.;)


This is a $30k Interior, thus, I hope Chevy improves the build to meet at least this:

Actually, thats a Pontiac G8 Interior. :lol: j/k!

It's sourced almost completely from Australia. Do I like it, do you like it, do others? Sure. ;) But I like what I'm hearing and not-really-seeing of the Camaro's better!

Though we look at these photos as hints, it is all wrong for them to even being posted. If Chevy is that secretive, photos would not even be posted any where. It's been 3 to 4 years and the final production images should be posted instead of these questionable ones. It's no secret that the vehicle will be manufacture in a couple months' time.

BINGO!!!! These interiors, if you can call them such should have never been seen by anybody except the testers. But the ones that WERE seen were "unprotected" on a truck, being shipped somewhere...and look at the trouble it caused. That's why the latest barrages of spy pics have been "sans-interior" photos. The tester/engineer/drivers won't allow it.

And it's been a little under 2 years since they actually started the engineering, and production designing...so :shrug:If by a couple months you mean ~10...yeah, that's what we've heard.

hahahahahaha!!!! The Dude wants to be different? The challenger is retro externally, though modern internally!!!!! The Camaro is opposite of that!!!!!!

Different? Like the retro interior that's been out since MY2005 in the mustang or the MY 2008 challenger in a 2010 camaro. Different, just like everyone else...

Yah, that's why I posted images of that interior to represent $30,000, which I assume the Camaro will come in at.

If Camaro wants to compete with Mustangs, pricing is of the consideration including level of interior built.

Yes man!!!!! I was really looking forward to purchasing a future Camaro, thus, I recently traded in one of my 4th Gen Trans Am to get my wife a Pontiac G8. The G8 is really comfortable with enough internal options compared to the TA. Having said this, I expected the new Camaro internal options to be comparable.

Just like another person stated in this forum, the vehicle is pre-production and big changes will not be made. I agree.

Remember, you spend most of your time in the vehicle cabin, not outside looking at the car....... thus, you better be contempt by what you feel and see. The Interior went to Retro for the Exterior Designer was different from the Interior at GM... that's ashame for it should have been all one person.

They would have been safer sticking with a Modern internal design.

Here is my G8 interior taken this past weekend

http://www.activeone.com/g8/g815.jpg.
http://www.activeone.com/g8/g816.jpg.
http://www.activeone.com/g8/g817.jpg.
http://www.activeone.com/g8/g818.jpg
http://www.activeone.com/g8/g819.jpg.
http://www.activeone.com/g8/g820.jpg. .

Yah, that's why I posted images of that interior to represent $30,000, which I assume the Camaro will come in at.

If Camaro wants to compete with Mustangs, pricing is of the consideration including level of interior built.
Sure, I got that part. ;) I was being a smarta$$...
The Camaro will easily trump the Mustang's interior, you'll see.

Yes man!!!!! I was really looking forward to purchasing a future Camaro, thus, I recently traded in one of my 4th Gen Trans Am to get my wife a Pontiac G8. The G8 is really comfortable with enough internal options compared to the TA. Having said this, I expected the new Camaro internal options to be comparable.

Just like another person stated in this forum, the vehicle is pre-production and big changes will not be made. I agree.


What's all this past tense?:( We don't know anything yet to be using such words. Especially not about options.

And the preproduction shots, while they may have been midly representative of what the interior might look like; It was all gray plastic place-holders...for fitting, if anything. Not for form, or functionality.

I've no doubt the REAL interiors are being developed somewhere inside a design studio.


Remember, you spend most of your time in the vehicle cabin, not outside looking at the car....... thus, you better be contempt by what you feel and see. The Interior went to Retro for the Exterior Designer was different from the Interior at GM... that's ashame for it should have been all one person.

They would have been safer sticking with a Modern internal design.

I think most, if not all, of us will be quite content (;)) with what we see in the way of the final interior. I can't say I see as much retro in the inside as you're implyinh, though...I think it all came together really well.

Hey Listen, I know you have been waiting for this Camaro for quite some time..... I have to since the past 6 months. I'm sure the GM execs or whoever will be driving these vehicles within 6 months from now prior to dealership realease in March.

In my view, I doubt that the interior settings will change very much or even all with all trim in place etc. You have to remember that a top Camaro with this interior trim would suck, though it would be fitting for a $23,000 V6 or V4, comparable to the Mustant 4 of course. The Look of the interior does not hold my appeal, though it will be a consideration in the purchase. I see how much you love this vehicle by sticking up for it.

If the interior breaks the deal for so many people here and others who are test driving those lower ends, manufacturing will not be slow enough. As we know, all level of the Camaro will be price higher than that of the Mustang.

I doubt this a spy photo.... look how well, clear, and angled it is. If you are snapping an image of a test, dirty vehicle, from outside of its window, do you believe that it will be as clear as this one? The key is in the ignition?!!! The door is sprung wide open!

It's not a spy shot! GM is teasing you and trying to get your opinion of the Preproduction vehicle.

Scott at GM didn't have a single comeback to the negative statements in this thread, for it was unjustifiable. That should give you hint. You would have to be litterly in the rear passenger seat to take this photo, right behind the center console. A test mule that does not make it to production would not have necessity of panels and trims at all.

You also can't state that all current exterior body panel will not come to close to production either. If we had another 2 years left, I would think otherwise.

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2008/01/camaro.int.dcu.kgp.ed.jpg






I think most, if not all, of us will be quite content (;)) with what we see in the way of the final interior. I can't say I see as much retro in the inside as you're implyinh, though...I think it all came together really well.

In my view, I doubt that the interior settings will change very much or even all with all trim in place etc. You have to remember that a top Camaro with this interior trim would suck, though it would be fitting for a $23,000 V6 or V4, comparable to the Mustant 4 of course. The Look of the interior does not hold my appeal, though it will be a consideration in the purchase. I see how much you love this vehicle by sticking up for it.

Well, then I'm not going to put a lot of effort in to try and change your view. It's not my place to drive it home it into you just how wrong a person is; they must realize it themselves. Just know that you may need to eat your words in a few months, thats all. No disrespect, I'm just sayin'....

I do want to ask, though. When you say "trim in place, etc"....do you mean the materials it seems to use, and those ugly-gray taped-in-place gauge bezels?

(And it's an I4.;))

If the interior breaks the deal for so many people here and others who are test driving those lower ends, manufacturing will not be slow enough. As we know, all level of the Camaro will be price higher than that of the Mustang.
Again, I don't think it will, because nobody has seen it yet, but I digress, Camaro won't be that much more expensive than a Mustang. Don't you fall into that trap, too.

I doubt this a spy photo.... look how well, clear, and angled it is. If you are snapping an image of a test, dirty vehicle, from outside of its window, do you believe that it will be as clear as this one? The key is in the ignition?!!! The door is sprung wide open!

It's not a spy shot! GM is teasing you and trying to get your opinion of the Preproduction vehicle.

I'm afraid I don't buy into that conspiracy theory. I do think it's a spy-pic, because (find fault in my logic) GM would be stupid to let these nasty mock-up interiors leak onto the web. The evidence you bring to support your argument, is valid...but it is in my case, too:

Do I think the photographer was allowed into the car? Yeah. By GM? No; It was the nice work of a smart-a$$ trucker.

Why hasn't there been any more leaks of this interior? Because, I think, they tightened their grip on who these cars gets put under the care of. That set of pics by that Corey R guy....remember he said that they wouldn't let him get a shot of the "interior"?

Scott at GM didn't have a single comeback to the negative statements in this thread, for it was unjustifiable. That should give you hint. You would have to be litterly in the rear passenger seat to take this photo, right behind the center console. A test mule that does not make it to production would not have necessity of panels and trims at all.

But barely any of it works. It's a bunch of placeholding plastic. Most test mules don't even get an interior at all! It's all done in-shop.
The mules are to test the CAR; the powertrain, the suspension, etc. NOT the interior....to decide that this MUST be the production interior because it's in a test mule is ludicrous, as far as I'm concerned.

What did you want Scott to say, anyways??? He's been asking people to 'keep the faith' for well over, what...6 years now? And all that was going on was 200+ posts of pure bitching...it's kinda hard to get a word in edgewise during that. BUT...if memory serves, he DID give a 'comeback', and you can read it here:

http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/showthread.php?t=568760&highlight=A+word

If you choose not to believe him, that is of course, your choice. And I won't try to sway you otherwise. We're already on the brink of starting this argument all over again...which I do not want to do.


You also can't state that all current exterior body panel will not come to close to production either. If we had another 2 years left, I would think otherwise.
When did I say anything about the exterior???:confused:

It's not a spy shot! GM is teasing you and trying to get your opinion of the Preproduction vehicle.

Yeah, GM released that pic of a cobbled-together interior with stray wires, pieces missing & unfinished, and let's not forget the duct tape holding the gauge bezels on. Why would they be fishing for opinions now when, like you say, everything is basically finished & won't change? It makes no sense.

Somebody approached the driver at a stop somewhere, slipped him a c-note and he let him sneak into the car for 30 seconds. Simple as that.

Well replied and no argument intended. We don't need to sway either one whichever way. Just based on what we are seeing, I don't see much change, thus I referred to the body which is pretty much production. I do hope I eat my words :cry:.

Just now I was checking the current Mustang Interior...... I see improvement compared to when I evaluate it at a Survey Group. I had the opportunity to survey that vehicle in 2002 before it was release.... despite the survey groups, they didn't make big change... as it is, I see the Stang Interior is much better looking now than it was 3 years ago.

In this "spy Interior" photo, look at the steering wheel, I can pretty much bet you the wheel is pretty much production. It's a higher model wheel since it has the leather wrap..... non wrap wheel are typically lower ended.

That's it man, we don't have to discussed this any longer except hold out for the wait.

Good day,
Matthew

Well, then I'm not going to put a lot of effort in to try and change your view. It's not my place to drive it home

When did I say anything about the exterior???:confused: