New Duramax!

http://www.sae.org/images/enewsletter/technology/071204Powertrain/08_455.jpg

General Motors has taken some of the wraps off of its 2010 Duramax diesel V8, revealing clever design features and technologies that clearly push the state-of-the-art in Vee-type compression-ignition engines.

Unveiled during a media briefing at its Milford, MI, Proving Grounds, the new 4.5-L powerplant will be one of the most powerful, lowest-emitting, and package-efficient light-duty V8 diesels in the marketplace, company engineers claimed.

The new Duramax is scheduled to enter production in late 2009 at GM's Tonawanda, NY, engine plant. It will power GM's full-size pickup trucks and utilities, among other potential applications. Rated output is targeted at more than 310 hp (231 kW), for 68 hp/L (51 kW/L), and 520 lb•ft (705 N•m).

The Duramax was designed to fit within the ultra-compact envelope of GM's small-block gasoline V8. Its NVH profile also targets the gas engine. These aggressive requirements drove many of the engine's innovations announced to date.

The new engine's aluminum cylinder heads' exhaust ports face inboard, toward the valley of the cylinder block. This allows the single variable-geometry turbocharger, exhaust-gas recirculation (EGR) cooler, and close-coupled oxidation catalyst to reside within the valley. The layout negates the need for separate exhaust manifolds while reducing overall width.

The reversed-head orientation also means the new diesel does not use a conventional intake manifold. Its intake ports are internal, rather than arrayed along an exterior face of the head as in common practice. The ports are fed pressurized charge directly through the tops of the intake camshaft covers.

The heads' unique two-tiered internal construction segregates the intake route, the chain-driven DOHC valvegear, and water jacket. (The fully dressed engine on display was not sectioned, so no internal details were revealed.)

Compacted graphite-iron (CGI) optimizes the cylinder block's strength and mass. The block's cylinder banks are splayed at 72º to achieve a narrow overall package with even firing, but the narrow vee requires a balance shaft for smooth running. GM studied aluminum block castings but determined that the light alloy would not deliver sufficient long-term durability and could not cope with the cylinder pressures planned for the new engine.

The main bearing caps are precision-fractured ("cracked"). This novel application of a feature that is commonly used for connecting rod big-ends enables closer crank-to-bearing tolerances with greatly improved assembly accuracy.

Piezo-type common-rail fuel injectors operating at 2000 bar (29,000 psi) are one of the keys to the new diesel meeting ultra-stringent U.S. Tier 2 bin 5 and California LEV2 emissions regulations. Another enabler is the engine's urea-based selective catalytic reduction system for reducing engine-out NOx (oxides of nitrogen) emissions.

The Duramax is package-protected for closed-loop cylinder pressure monitoring, a technology GM will introduce on its new 2.9-L turbodiesel V6 next year in Europe.

The initial concept for the new Duramax sprang from impromptu brainstorming sessions between GM's Director of Diesel Engineering, Charlie Freese, and the V8's Chief Engineer, Gary Arvan.

"It was totally clean-sheet," Freese recalled. "Starting with very rough sketches, our path to every technical solution began with a 'what if.' We ended up avoiding traditional approaches."

And Mountain Dew, rather than coffee, was the engineers' preferred beverage during the meetings, which stretched into many late evenings.

According to Arvan, one strategic goal was to eliminate the component duplications that make Vee-type diesels inherently more complex and costly. Hence the single turbocharger and absence of exhaust manifolds.

Another goal was "to shorten the typical long induction and exhaust paths and minimize surface area along the way, to quickly get the hot exhaust out of the heads and into the turbo," he noted.

Eliminating the intake manifold and employing internal exhaust-gas recirculation also reduces the number of noise-radiating surfaces, Arvan said. And the stout CGI block "is stiffer than any competitive cylinder block we've analyzed—and we've analyzed them all," Freese added.

The Duramax's bills of design and materials (BoD and BoM) were developed to achieve some commonality with the current-generation 6.6-L V8. Shared features include the quick-start system with intake air heater, electronic EGR, and some elements of the larger diesel's electronic control system. The 4.5-L engine will employ a new E86 engine controller.

GM will uncloak more of the V8's secrets next year, after the automaker establishes patents in a number of areas, said Freese.

Wow, that is one complicated engine. I hope it holds together well. Too bad they can't use an aluminum block to go with the aluminum heads. I wonder how many valves it has.The article said it had dual-overhead cams but did not give the number of valves.

Wont it get really hot in the valley with the exhaust exiting there? I wonder how that will affect tuned engines with higher EGTs?

Anybody who states that GM Powertrain isn't in the technological forefront isn't paying attention.

Saw this a couple days ago...


http://camaroz28.com/forums/showthread.php?t=561246

What's the source? Got a link to the original article? Thanks.

Saw this a couple days ago...


http://camaroz28.com/forums/showthread.php?t=561246

You read my mind! :D

How much will it cost the customer to put a check mark next to this option?

I wonder how many valves it has.The article said it had dual-overhead cams but did not give the number of valves.

Given that all of the HD light-truck diesels on the market have four valves (and have for quite some time), I think it's certain that this engine will, too.

Wont it get really hot in the valley with the exhaust exiting there? I wonder how that will affect tuned engines with higher EGTs?

Diesel engine EGTs already start off a couple hundred degrees cooler than gas motors, and the turbo takes quite a bit of that heat and turns it into mechanical motion so the situation improves even more.

Anybody who states that GM Powertrain isn't in the technological forefront isn't paying attention.

Damn straight! The only frustrating part is that it didn't happen sooner.

I would hopefully expect decent fuel mileage as well. Cool. Here's to thinking "outside" the box.

So we're finally going to get a light duty diesel.

Exxxxxcellent.

Very cool!

The TB/SS and the Silverado aren't going anywhere until I can get something with that .... to replace both!!

I wonder if they can get one into a Canyon/Colorado???
You know you've thought about it....

I just hope it is an addition to the 6.6 Duramax and NOT taking the place of it. Also, no mention if it will require the flame thrower exhaust.

Given that all of the HD light-truck diesels on the market have four valves (and have for quite some time), I think it's certain that this engine will, too.



Diesel engine EGTs already start off a couple hundred degrees cooler than gas motors, and the turbo takes quite a bit of that heat and turns it into mechanical motion so the situation improves even more.



Damn straight! The only frustrating part is that it didn't happen sooner.

Thanks. Great explanation as usual. :D

PS Not sure about the balance shaft being a pointer to smooth/quiet running.

I just hope it is an addition to the 6.6 Duramax and NOT taking the place of it. Also, no mention if it will require the flame thrower exhaust.

6.6L will probably be only available in 3/4 or 1 Ton trucks I would guess. Who needs more then 500ft-lbs in a 1/2 Ton? NOBODY.

I wonder if they can get one into a Canyon/Colorado???
You know you've thought about it....

I hope those trucks get the all new 2.9L V6 Diesel. They don't need 500+ torque

I just hope it is an addition to the 6.6 Duramax and NOT taking the place of it.

This is for passenger cars and light-duty light trucks. The 6.6L D-max is likely to get replaced by a new twin-turbo motor at some point prior to the new 2010 emission regs.

That is NEAT!

Thanks for posting.

I sure hope they advertise all the technology on this. I would love to see GM do simple commercials where they point out the technical merits of their cars now that they have stepped up their efforts. No more commercials emphasizing "the deal", emphasize the technical features.

Like the simple Silverado commercial where they drive a Silverado down into a ditch to show of the locking differential, and then a Tundra gets stuck because it does not have such a feature.

^Reminds me of the short lived Ford truck commercial where a Ford and Chevy truck was at a boat ramp at a lake with boats on trailers. The Chevy truck/trailer slipped back and became submerged and the Ford driver says "like a rock". It was from years ago when Bob Segers' Like a Rock song was the tagline for Chevy trucks. Even though I am a Chevy man, I laughed my azz off. Ford ad men had some brass balls to put that one out.

Wow, that is one complicated engine. I hope it holds together well. Too bad they can't use an aluminum block to go with the aluminum heads. I wonder how many valves it has.The article said it had dual-overhead cams but did not give the number of valves.

At least they are using a CGI block which is both lighter and stronger than a cast iron block.

I wonder how physically big this motor is. Would this be something that we could find in a next gen RWD impala?

Is the 2.9 td reserved for smaller cars?

Let's not get too carried away... the engine hasn't proven itself yet although the design itself is impressive.

We wouldn't want a Tundra-like mishap with this engine...

ok maybe we shouldn't get carried away about the LS9 either then.....

I wonder how physically big this motor is. Would this be something that we could find in a next gen RWD impala?

Is the 2.9 td reserved for smaller cars?

It is no physically larger than the LSx series, from an old press release.

Does "urea based selective catalytic reduction system" mean you have to add pellets to the fuel in the tank?

Does "urea based selective catalytic reduction system" mean you have to add pellets to the fuel in the tank?

Not sure exactly what that means but I know its not pellets.

Urea injection systems are used in the industrial world. I work with them a little bit at work. I dont work on them personally but the engines I work on use them.

Mainly diesel generators. Big diesel engines... 6.5" bore and up. Basically they inject Urea into the exhaust stream before the catalyst and it reacts with the particulates in the exhaust at temperature causing the Nox to go down. Urea is a liquid that is derived from cow pee... hence the "Urea" term. Its not directly cow urin but thats what it is made from. Sometimes at they are refered to as an "exhaust pisser" in the industry. I'm no expert on it at all, but thats the general idea.

Here is what I know. The exhaust must be hot... so the engine will be under heavy load. There is a ton of expensive equipment involved. Pumps, meters, a storage tank for the Urea, hoses and lines, temp probes and injection nozzles... all of which are dependant on a lot of maintenence. Not something you will just put in a tank and forget about. Cold weather will freeze it up like ice, and if it sits for too long it will dry up and crystalize in the lines and ruin the injection system.(months of sitting not days)

Not sure how it will work in the automotive world. I assume the "selective" part refers to the injection taking place on "selective" loads and EGT's. You can not just inject Urea into the exhaust of a engine at idle or part load and expect it to work. The exhaust temps are just not there. Rumor has it the auto manufactures have been trying to use it for years without success. I use it on Diesel and Natural gas gensets that run for extended periods of time. They can reduce the emissions greatly and allow the owners or companies to gain run time on their air permits. Sometimes even doubling their allowed run time. On a genset that our customer use, they can now run them during peak power usages in conjunction with normal utility power and save big on their electric bill. Its called "peak shaving" and there is a ton of money in it.

It is no physically larger than the LSx series, from an old press release.

I've read that too, but I think it's referring to width and length. With its 72* vee angle, DOHC layout, and turbo plumbing up top, it looks to be a pretty tall engine. It looks pretty tall in the pics too.

Damn straight! The only frustrating part is that it didn't happen sooner.

It's been ongoing for for nearly two decades. Look at the basic small block V8 going back to the LT1 as less arguable example of GM powertrain tech. A pushrod, 2 valve per cylinder engine that generates HP on par with DOHC engine while getting = to or better fuel economy in a package that over all is considerably smaller says more than most people realize hence the ignorant pushrod motors are old school. There is nothing old school about GM engines. The LS series engines and the new diesels are as high tech as anyone out there.

ok maybe we shouldn't get carried away about the LS9 either then.....

LSX motors are proven to be as tough as any engines out there... even custom blown ones.

This diesel is different and not based on any of GM's previous engine architectures.

Can you see the difference?

Anybody who states that GM Powertrain isn't in the technological forefront isn't paying attention.

Too bad they can't do the same for their auto transmissions....

Too bad they can't do the same for their auto transmissions....

Unless I'm mistaken BMW runs GM transmissions in more than one of their models. BMW is regarded as hight tech must be good enough for them to runem in their cars. GM has just been slow to add 6+ speed auto trannies to their lineup.

Too bad they can't do the same for their auto transmissions....

I dunno - pulling off the two-mode hybrid transmission was an amazing technological feat.

Unless I'm mistaken BMW runs GM transmissions in more than one of their models. BMW is regarded as hight tech must be good enough for them to runem in their cars. GM has just been slow to add 6+ speed auto trannies to their lineup.

I dunno - pulling off the two-mode hybrid transmission was an amazing technological feat.

Cmon, you guys know what I'm talking about, the bread and butter cars and trucks that 90% of the population buys, not Corvettes and low-volume 2-mode hybrids that you can't even buy yet. While the competition is offering CVT, DSG, and 6-speed vehicles in large-volume vehicles TODAY, all I see from GM is 6-speeds in only the most expensive vehicles and promises that someday they will trickle down to everything else.

The rest of the lineup lugs on with an antiquated 4-speed that is so weak they have to torque-manage all the power from their wonderful engines to keep the tranny from from breaking. Seriously, why have a powerful, world class engine, when you have to choke it because of your fragile tranny?

I came so close to buying a Trailblazer SS, but I just couldn't get past the weak 4l70 behind the LS2 (supposedly it is a beefed up 4l60, but just do a search on how many problems they still have with it.) I refuse to trade in my 2001 Silverado for a new one until I can get a 6-speed in something other than a Denali.

If you guys can honestly tell me GM leads the industry with transmissions the same way they do with their engines, your GM goggles are better than mine......

Cmon, you guys know what I'm talking about, the bread and butter cars and trucks that 90% of the population buys, not Corvettes and low-volume 2-mode hybrids that you can't even buy yet. While the competition is offering CVT, DSG, and 6-speed vehicles in large-volume vehicles TODAY, all I see from GM is 6-speeds in only the most expensive vehicles and promises that someday they will trickle down to everything else.Um... isn't the 2008 Malibu getting an A6 option?

Um... isn't the 2008 Malibu getting an A6 option?Not just the Malibu, either.

Malibu V6 (and 4 cylinder, very shortly)
Aura XR
G6 GTP
Saturn Outlook
GMC Acadia
Buick Enclave
Caddy STS (and V)
Caddy CTS
Caddy SRX
Caddy XLR (and V)
Caddy Escalade / EXT
Corvette
Silverado HD
Sierra HD
Sierra 1/2 ton Denali
Yukon Denali
Hummer H2

All of those are available right now with a 6 speed auto. And 4 speed autos are still used by others as well. The entire Scion lineup uses a 4 speed auto or 5 speed manual, for example.

I agree that I'd like to see the 1/2 ton trucks and SUVs get the six speeds NOW, but it isn't quite as grim a picture as you painted, eman.

Not just the Malibu, either.

Malibu V6 (and 4 cylinder, very shortly)
Aura XR
G6 GTP
Saturn Outlook
GMC Acadia
Buick Enclave
Caddy STS (and V)
Caddy CTS
Caddy SRX
Caddy XLR (and V)
Caddy Escalade / EXT
Corvette
Silverado HD
Sierra HD
Sierra 1/2 ton Denali
Yukon Denali
Hummer H2

All of those are available right now with a 6 speed auto. And 4 speed autos are still used by others as well. The entire Scion lineup uses a 4 speed auto or 5 speed manual, for example.

I agree that I'd like to see the 1/2 ton trucks and SUVs get the six speeds NOW, but it isn't quite as grim a picture as you painted, eman.

Don't forget the Saturn Vue, the Equinox SS, and the Torent GXP :).
Oh and G8 GT too (figured I'd list since it's coming soon).
I don't know, even though people thought they'd bring them out 2nd year of the trucks, I figured they'd save it for a refresh. It gives them time to ramp up production, gives the refresh something extra mechanically to brag about, and it doesn't really piss off the first year buyers :D.

If you guys can honestly tell me GM leads the industry with transmissions the same way they do with their engines, your GM goggles are better than mine......

You seemed to be questioning GM's technological abilities when it comes to transmissions, which is something I can't agree with. I share your frustration in GM's inability to get the 6-speeds in more vehicles, but that's much more of a beancounter issue than anything else.

I guess I should have been more specific from the start. What I meant is, IMO, when it comes to auto transmissions, GM is NOT "in the technological forefront." They are middle of the pack at best, but IMO are behind, playing catch up to the rest of the industry. I am not just talking about traditional torque-converter-equipped autos with 6 gears. I am also including new emerging auto trans technology such as CVT and DSG. Stuff that is actually "technological forefront."

I agree GM is the leader in engine technology. I will even give them props on manual transmissions. They put the M6 in the F-bodies in 1993, a time when it was UNHEARD of to see 6-speeds in anything other than Corvettes and Vipers. THAT is industry leading.

I know the new Malibu will have the A6. I know other companies still use 4-speeds. My only point is this: when I think of engines on the "technological forefront" I think GM. When I think of transmissions on the "technological forefront" I think of everyone but GM.

Give me the list of GM vehicles with a CVT or DSG transmission. Or even give me the list of vehicles that don't cost around $40,000 that have the A6. And tell me why you believe GM is the industry leader in transmissions.

Give me the list of GM vehicles with a CVT or DSG transmission.

I'm guessing that we best not bring up the Saturn CVT :eek: Seriously, I do see where you're coming from - Ford is way out front with their use of six-speed ATs and CVTs in mainstream sedans, and we haven't heard a peep about DSGs/DCTs from the General.

You seemed to be questioning GM's technological abilities when it comes to transmissions, which is something I can't agree with. I share your frustration in GM's inability to get the 6-speeds in more vehicles, but that's much more of a beancounter issue than anything else.

I'm not questioning their technological ability to create great transmissions. I know they can when they want to. I am really questioning their level of desire and effort to create them at all. It seems they only started developing 6-speed autos because they felt the pressure of other companies that had 6-speeds already. And now other manufacturers have already moved on to CVTs and DSGs, and where is GM with those technologies?

And I don't agree it's a beancounter issue either. Had GM been industry LEADERS and started developing A6's years before, instead of being "late to the party" industry FOLLOWERS, ramp up time would have already passed and we'd be seeing 6-speeds in more vehicles NOW.

I'm guessing that we best not bring up the Saturn CVT :eek:

That was a step backwards. Better to just bury it and forget it ever happened. Clearly not one of their better efforts.

Anyway, sorry for going off topic, yes that Duramax engine is bad@$$. Continue praising it.

That's enough for me.....this thread is killing my post count! :D

I guess I should have been more specific from the start. What I meant is, IMO, when it comes to auto transmissions, GM is NOT "in the technological forefront." They are middle of the pack at best, but IMO are behind, playing catch up to the rest of the industry. I am not just talking about traditional torque-converter-equipped autos with 6 gears. I am also including new emerging auto trans technology such as CVT and DSG. Stuff that is actually "technological forefront."
I think you need to take a look and see who actually has 6 speed autos (planetary gear setups) in their mainstream cars before saying GM is actually behind. Most of the Asian competitors are just now putting in 6 speed autos into their mainstream cars, and some are still using 5/4 speeds. GM decided not to use 5 speed autos and go straight to 6 speed, and judging from the number of reviews I have read about 5 speed autos hunting for gears.

CVTs aren't 'high tech'. They are actually quite simple and are being used more commonly for 2 reasons: 1 they are gaining in torque capacity and 2 they are cheaper to build. CVT transmissions don't provide improved fuel economy and certainly don't provide an improved driving experience. DSGs are new to everyone. I will admit that GM hasn't announced anything yet and may not have anything in mainstream vehicles anytime soon but Caddy and the Corvette should be getting them quite soon.

And lets not forget that many other companies using 'advanced' transmissions are just buying them. They aren't developing things themselves.
I know the new Malibu will have the A6.
The new Malibu and all the Epsilon cars have the A6. The Theta crossovers and Lambda crossovers all use A6s. All Caddies, Corvette, GMC's Denali trucks, and GM's HD series trucks all have an A6. Practically the only GM vehicles not using 6 speed transmissions in at least 1 model are the Delta cars, the GMT355/360 trucks, the W/G-body cars, and the Aveo.

Given how many models they produce I would say they are doing pretty darn well.

My only point is this: when I think of engines on the "technological forefront" I think GM. When I think of transmissions on the "technological forefront" I think of everyone but GM.
So what your saying is that your perception doesn't match the data. That your perception is that GM is behind in transmissions. Seems like GM is fighting quite a few perception problems.

Give me the list of GM vehicles with a CVT or DSG transmission. Or even give me the list of vehicles that don't cost around $40,000 that have the A6. And tell me why you believe GM is the industry leader in transmissions.

Give me a list of <$40K vehicles w/ DSG transmissions, as I believe CVTs are just a cost cutting measure.

GM decided not to use 5 speed autos and go straight to 6 speed, and judging from the number of reviews I have read about 5 speed autos hunting for gears.
GM "decided" not to use 5-speeds because BMW paid them not to.

Judging from the number of reviews you have read about 5 speed autos hunting for gears, what?

And lets not forget that many other companies using 'advanced' transmissions are just buying them. They aren't developing things themselves.
True. Off the top of my head, I can't think of a single import car using a transmission that is built by the same people that build the car. Honda might be... not sure. Most of them are using ZF.

Give me a list of <$40K vehicles w/ DSG transmissions
A bunch of VWs, and the Audi A3 and TT. DSG was developed by BorgWarner, not VW.

Not that there's anything wrong with a third-party transmission. Heck, GM didn't build my T56. :D

I wish my crappy Formula had a 6 speed auto. Maybe I will have to settle with a 6 speed T56.

GM "decided" not to use 5-speeds because BMW paid them not to.
Yeah BMW paid GM not to use the 5 speed autos in FWD vehicles. :rolleyes: Also the 5 speed auto was used in 3.8 V6 Holdens for a while IIRC.

Judging from the number of reviews you have read about 5 speed autos hunting for gears, what?
I recall many articles talking about how vehicles w/ 5 speed autos, especially earlier models, would spend more time hunting for the right gear than staying in gear.

A bunch of VWs, and the Audi A3 and TT. DSG was developed by BorgWarner, not VW.

Aside from that 1 company (VW/Audi) is there anyone else?

Aside from that 1 company (VW/Audi) is there anyone else?

DCTs are currently sold mostly by Volkswagen Group under the brand names DSG Direct-Shift Gearbox (for Volkswagen, SEAT and Škoda) and S-Tronic (for Audi). Volkswagen also produces a DCT transmission (model DQ250) under license from Borg-Warner for use in transverse powertrain installations, and this is used in the Golf/Rabbit, Jetta, Passat, Touran, Audi A3 and Skoda Octavia. Volkswagen are believed to be developing a family of DCTs to go across the VAG product range. UK-based Ricardo Company produces the seven-speed DCT for the 1001-horsepower Bugatti Veyron 16.4, another Volkswagen Group product.

GETRAG has a complete range of DCT transaxles, including 7DCL750, a seven-speed transaxle for mid-engine longitudinal applications, capable of taking more than 750 N·m; it is "in development" with a release expected by early 2007. GETRAG and Chrysler will jointly build a plant in Indiana that will supply dual-clutch transmissions to Chrysler starting in 2009.

A renewed version of the PDK (Porsche Doppelkupplung), but for mass-production instead of race cars, was expected in January 2006 but may come in 2007 or later. Porsche is said to have filed paperwork indicating that it will be available as a late addition to the 997, in future model-years.

Mitsubishi Motors has announced that the 2008 Lancer Evolution X will come with their Twin Clutch SST dual clutch transmission controlled by magnesium paddle shifters.

BorgWarner is the current leading supplier of wet clutches and hydraulic modules for these transmissions. BorgWarner, who call their technology "DualTronic", signed further agreements with two other (unnamed) European automotive manufacturers to incorporate their components in DCTs.

If I'm reading that correctly, the Evo X is the only other one that's currently available. Take it all with a grain of salt, though, since it's Wikipedia. :)

If I'm reading that correctly, the Evo X is the only other one that's currently available. Take it all with a grain of salt, though, since it's Wikipedia. :)
Just an FYI, Mistusbishi is having problems getting their DCT to market. Its been delayed several times as they're still working the bugs out. The Evo X is also the first mitsubishi to step away from their 100,000 mile warranty.

If I'm reading that correctly, the Evo X is the only other one that's currently available. Take it all with a grain of salt, though, since it's Wikipedia. :)

So in reality only 1 mass market brand has brought a DSG transmission to market, VW/Audi group. Doesn't really sound like everyone else is behind just that VW/Audi are ahead of the game a little. And remember these brands are known for electronic gizmo's and sporty driving dynamics so it is the norm for them to have this type of stuff when others may not.

True. Off the top of my head, I can't think of a single import car using a transmission that is built by the same people that build the car. Honda might be... not sure. Most of them are using ZF.

Whoa, whoa.... whoa. Let's talk about just automatics, since damn near every Asian brand builds their own manuals. Nissan uses JATCO transmissions, which is a Nissan company (they claim to have launched the first 5-speed electronically-controlled auto, BTW - 18 years ago!). JATCO also sells to other OEMs, such as Chrysler, and bought up what used to be Mistubishi's own transmission unit. Honda builds their own transmissions. Toyota uses Aisin, which is a Toyota company. Aisan also sells to several other OEMs, such as GM and Ford. Mercedes builds their own automatics; one of these transmissions is also used in the Chrysler LX, KA/KK, and WK platforms. That's just off the top of my head.

Isnt the new ZR1 getting a DCT?

Mainsteam 5/6 speed A/T:

The mazda 6 had a 5 speed auto in the v6 from launch (03) to 04 (I think), since then it's had first a Mazda built 6 speed then a Asin Warner 6 speed. Around the same time the v6 got the 6 speed the 4 cyl got a 5 speed. Both engines could also have a 5 speed stick.

Right now the 3 can be had with a 5 speed A/T
The CX-7 and CX-9 both also have the Asin Warner 6 speed.
The RX-8 has had a 6 speed A/T for a couple years. It's not really a mainstream car, but it's definatly under $40k.
The Miata since 05 has a 6 speed A/T

So, I picked 1 asian car maker, which has a tiny market share (~1.8% IIRC) and it has 6 speeds in just about everything it makes RIGHT NOW. Don't tell me they just get Ford's stuff. The Asin Warner box is not the one used by Ford, so no parts bin sharing there.

Just thought I'd put that out there.

Giving rebirth to this thread...

With all the discussion of CAFE and the killing off of the musclecar, would anyone consider a turbo version of the 4.5L Duramax in a 2010 Camaro? ;)

Giving rebirth to this thread...

With all the discussion of CAFE and the killing off of the musclecar, would anyone consider a turbo version of the 4.5L Duramax in a 2010 Camaro? ;)

What would the weight difference on the nose be I wonder? I know the 4.5L uses a CGI block which is lighter than Cast Iron, along with aluminum heads but you still have the turbo itself among other things.

It would definately be different, that's for sure. There would probably be a lot of people against it because of the history, but you will have that if they eventually make a hybrid version too.

Well its supposed to be a smaller package as "The Duramax was designed to fit within the ultra-compact envelope of GM's small-block gasoline V8. Its NVH profile also targets the gas engine." As small (size & weight) as the LSx? I'm not sure, but I'd think a twin-turbo version could net at least 400hp.

And with a few tweaks, you could convert it over to biodiesel and be even greener than a Prius hybrid. :D

And with a few tweaks, you could convert it over to biodiesel and be even greener than a Prius hybrid. :D

Just imagine the chips you could get for that! I mean you can already get chips for the current Duramax that add over 100 hp, not to mention how much an exhaust upgrade could add:D

would be a plus for european sales as well.