A Different Kind of Weight Issue For Vehicles!

Passengers Straining Vehicle Weight Capacities

The growing girth of Americans is colliding with government-mandated warning labels on all 2006 or newer cars that list the maximum weight — passengers and cargo — that's safe to carry.

USA Today reports that many two-seat sports cars, including Mazda MX-5 Miata and Chevrolet Corvette, aren't certified to carry two 200-pound adults, according to a government formula aimed at tire safety. The limitations are stamped on a "Tire and Loading Information" plate on the driver's side door frame.

At 265 pounds, Ron Larson of Henderson, Nev., says he and his 150-pound wife were unaware of the limitations two years ago when they leased a Cadillac XLR two-seater with a 362-pound capacity. "If the dealership knew there was a weight restriction, they should have told us," he says.

Automakers say the limits reflect a mandated federal formula that requires them to rate passengers at 150 pounds each. In 2004, the Centers for Disease Control pegged average weights at 190 pounds for men, 163 for women.

Full Story Here: http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2007-09-13-overloaded-cars_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip

150 lbs!? I havent been 150 lbs since 6th grade!

its kinda sad that motorcycles can hold more weight than a car, too...

Can they not increase tire pressure to handle the extra load?

Wouldn't they need to change shocks/struts, and alot more? I know alot of cars look scary with just 4 regular sized people in it.

Wouldn't you just folow the airlines' example and require them to buy two cars? (sic)

Has this ever really been a problem? Do we see wheels falling off, tires problems, or the cars falling apart because fat people are driving Corvettes or MX-5's? No.

Dan

Well, this is a new twist. :think:

i've always thought about this in the back of my mind. peoples gigantic asses contribute to poor fuel economy and more wear and tear on the vehicle.

that being said i now feel like a lardass and i'm 6' 3" 183lbs

I'm shocked that those cars have such low passenger weight limits. Off the top of my head I think my little Audi A4 says something like 760 pound weight limit with the tires at 33psi, or 950 pounds if I increase the pressure to 36 psi.

Though one time I had 4 guys in my car on a road trip to the smokey mountains. Average weight was ~210 pounds, plus each of us had about 60 pounds in gear... so almost 1100 pounds of weight in the car... and it was winter time and I had forgotten to check my tire pressure so it was probably even lower than 33 psi. One of the tires ended up going flat during the drive there, and there was no nail or anything in it so I have to assume it was due to the weight.

The car definitely drove like it was overloaded - handling, braking, and acceleration were all noticeably worse.

At 265 pounds, Ron Larson of Henderson, Nev., says he and his 150-pound wife were unaware of the limitations two years ago when they leased a Cadillac XLR two-seater with a 362-pound capacity. "If the dealership knew there was a weight restriction, they should have told us," he says.

Ohhhh yeah, Mr. Larson, right. A Cadillac dealership is going to offend you and kill a sale at the same time by bringing up the possibility that you and your wife are too fat for the car. :rolleyes: :lol: Please!

You know what that would lead to, right? I can see the newspaper headline now:

Dealership sued for calling couple too robust to ride.

Ohhhh yeah, Mr. Larson, right. A Cadillac dealership is going to offend you and kill a sale at the same time by bringing up the possibility that you and your wife are too fat for the car. :rolleyes: :lol: Please!

You know what that would lead to, right? I can see the newspaper headline now:

Dealership sued for calling couple too robust to ride.
While I hate to ever lower myself to the lowest common denominator; I'm going to have to side with Mr. Larson and his wife on this one...

First, I believe he rented the XLR; that to me entails a greater responsibility for disclosure on the company/dealership doing the renting.

Second, if any manufacturer ever used this as an exsuse to not cover a component failure, etc then again, this needs to be disclosed to the consumer and not just hidden on the door frame.

First, I believe he rented the XLR

Article says "leased". That would imply, well, leased.

Second, if any manufacturer ever used this as an exsuse to not cover a component failure, etc then again, this needs to be disclosed to the consumer and not just hidden on the door frame.

Ok fine, but show me one dealer in this country that knows off the top of their heads the GVWR on the cars they sell. Trucks, maybe, but cars? I'd doubt it.

That isn't necessarily to excuse them, but this is honestly the first time I've ever heard these ratings even considered to be an issue. To me, they're more recommendations than hard and fast rules. I'm sure Mr. Larson and his wife are perfectly safe and comfortable in their XLR.

While I hate to ever lower myself to the lowest common denominator; I'm going to have to side with Mr. Larson and his wife on this one...

First, I believe he rented the XLR; that to me entails a greater responsibility for disclosure on the company/dealership doing the renting.

Second, if any manufacturer ever used this as an exsuse to not cover a component failure, etc then again, this needs to be disclosed to the consumer and not just hidden on the door frame.

I disagree. He leased the XLR, did not rent. This means he is going to own the car for at least a year or 2. He should do his own research. He can read. It is on the car. It isn't hidden.

Going by your example, when you buy or rent a car, you are going to expect the car company to read the manual, stickers, and safety placards to the person buying? What if a private party sells to another private party, they would have to do the same thing.

Now, it is an interesting fact that the gov't rates a person at 150 lbs. I would think of rating a person at 200 lbs.

I'm shocked that those cars have such low passenger weight limits. Off the top of my head I think my little Audi A4 says something like 760 pound weight limit with the tires at 33psi, or 950 pounds if I increase the pressure to 36 psi.

That tells you right there -- it isn't the structure, it's the tires. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find vehicles with very low-profile tires that have high passenger weight limits.

With all that said, this has never seemed to be an issue before. I would find it highly improbable that a dealer would refuse warranty claims on cars under the premise that the car was overloaded. Things that might fail prematurely under heavy loads -- like tires, shocks, springs, etc. -- are going to be considered wearable items anyway. And even then it'll probably be outside the warranty period when they do fail.

Bottom line is that unless you're planning on hauling a pallet of bricks in the trunk of your XLR, there is no cause for concern with 360 pounds of humans in it.

Holy crap. I had two 300 lbs friends, a 180 lbs friend, and my 205 lbs but in my 1987 5.0. I am sure I was killing the ratings. When we used to go to movies in high school 6 of us would ride in one car. 1100-1200 lbs in a 1994 Olds 98.

That tells you right there -- it isn't the structure, it's the tires. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find vehicles with very low-profile tires that have high passenger weight limits.


Good call.
Lower profile tires = Lower load rating

There's always a tradeoff for lower profile tires, and that's one most people don't consider. Too low of a profile tire is especially dangerous in trucks and large SUVs.....a lot of people do it and it's a disturbing trend.

I'm shocked that those cars have such low passenger weight limits. Off the top of my head I think my little Audi A4 says something like 760 pound weight limit with the tires at 33psi, or 950 pounds if I increase the pressure to 36 psi.


XLR is a 2 seater. Cut the 760 in half, you get 380. Not too far off what the XLR is.

So they should add extra reinforcing to all new cars to handle a minimum of 350 pounds per seat. This would mean that the Mini could handle a 1400 pound payload. They could put in a V6 engine to compensate. But with some advanced materials, they ought to be able to keep weight down to 3100 pounds. I suppose it would mean the new Camaro would be over 4000 pounds. To get the mileage back, they could add a hybrid system with a few hundred pounds of batteries. Of course, you'd need a few extra inches in length to add room for the battery packs. But with advanced engineering, you could keep the weight down to 4500 pounds.

:cry:

The vehicles are engineered to a much higher standard. The government just has some silly calculation that determines what goes on the label. As mentioned earlier, we don't see any cars falling apart b/c we weigh too much.

its kinda sad that motorcycles can hold more weight than a car, too...


No ****! Kinda pathetic....

So they should add extra reinforcing to all new cars to handle a minimum of 350 pounds per seat. This would mean that the Mini could handle a 1400 pound payload. They could put in a V6 engine to compensate. But with some advanced materials, they ought to be able to keep weight down to 3100 pounds. I suppose it would mean the new Camaro would be over 4000 pounds. To get the mileage back, they could add a hybrid system with a few hundred pounds of batteries. Of course, you'd need a few extra inches in length to add room for the battery packs. But with advanced engineering, you could keep the weight down to 4500 pounds.

:cry:

So true...

The vehicles are engineered to a much higher standard. The government just has some silly calculation that determines what goes on the label. As mentioned earlier, we don't see any cars falling apart b/c we weigh too much.

It's not the structure that we worry about - it's the load rating of the tires. And it's the tire and auto manufacturers that drive the GVWR, and not "some silly calculation" by NHTSA. Violate this at your own risk, and hopefully you know what to do when a tire blows out at the worst possible time.

hmm, this thread made me wonder what my dad's Corvette is rated for since my wife and I are heavier than the couple listed and the XLR is on the same chassis as the C6. I cannot find any weight limit listed on the website. I don't see anything listed on the XLR's website either...

Article says "leased". That would imply, well, leased
True...my mistake. In my own defense, however, I'll point out that for someone with a background in finance and accounting, the only difference between "rent" and "lease" is the length of the contract. :D


Ok fine, but show me one dealer in this country that knows off the top of their heads the GVWR on the cars they sell. Trucks, maybe, but cars? I'd doubt it.

That isn't necessarily to excuse them, but this is honestly the first time I've ever heard these ratings even considered to be an issue. To me, they're more recommendations than hard and fast rules. I'm sure Mr. Larson and his wife are perfectly safe and comfortable in their XLR.
I'm sure you are right, a lot of dealers and a lot of car salesmen know next to nothing about the vehicles they sell...my point was, however, that should any manufacturer consider using the rating as an excuse for an accident then they also have an obligation to point out the rating, at least in a more prominent place than a small tag on the door frame.

I'm also not quite so sure that these are just "recomendations"...I have a feeling there are a lot of people out there modifying their cars (especially wheels and tires) and giving no thought to how that affects load limits...if load limits have already been lowered because the manufacturers have gone to much bigger wheels and lower profile tires, imagine how much more load limits are being compromised!

Again, I don't like playing to the lowest common demoninator but people, as a group, are simply not as mechenically inclined or knowledgable as the used to be...fewer and fewer people are exposed to such concepts (in school or the workplace) as they once were - I dou't that 1 in 100 people even know there is a relationship between a vehicles load limits and its tires/wheels!

I'm also not quite so sure that these are just "recomendations"...I have a feeling there are a lot of people out there modifying their cars (especially wheels and tires) and giving no thought to how that affects load limits...if load limits have already been lowered because the manufacturers have gone to much bigger wheels and lower profile tires, imagine how much more load limits are being compromised!


You realize that this is all dependent upon the tires right? It doesn't matter what the manufacture had on there if it gets changed by a customer. I don't think this is a manufacture problem. The customers want bigger rims. If people don't know how to maintain their car, or the limits of their car, how is that the manufactures fault?

You realize that this is all dependent upon the tires right? It doesn't matter what the manufacture had on there if it gets changed by a customer. I don't think this is a manufacture problem. The customers want bigger rims. If people don't know how to maintain their car, or the limits of their car, how is that the manufactures fault?
Where in the quote you cited did I say it was the manufacturer's fault? It's not a matter of fault; it just is what it is.

If a vehicle's load limts have already been negatively affected by the manufacturer going to bigger wheels/lower profile tires (their motivation for doing so, aside) and then Johnny (who is only interestd in looking cool) comes along and goes to even more extreems while giving no thought to how it further affects load limts; then that is a big problem waiting for a place to happen.

It is not the manufacturer's "fault" but the manufacturers DO have a responsibility (and for that matter, so do the aftermarket wheel and tire manufacturers and those who sell them) to let customers know the potential dangers...the sad fact is, most people don't know how to maintain their car or their cars limits and don't have a clue when it comes to issues like this.

Just for kicks, while I was over at my parents' house this weekend, I checked the door jam on my dad's 2001 Corvette convertible. Sure enough, it said max load of 399 lbs. :alert:

That means that any time he and I are riding in the car, we are exceeding the weight rating (he's ~230-240, I'm ~205-210).

:|

I'm sure there are LOTS of 200+ lb Corvette owners who, when combined with maybe a 100-200 lb wife (well, 95-105 lb supermodels if they are members of this site, of course) and a suitcase or two, are regularly exceeding the GVWR of the Vette.

:think: :|

That seems perverse to me.

Where in the quote you cited did I say it was the manufacturer's fault? It's not a matter of fault; it just is what it is.

If a vehicle's load limts have already been negatively affected by the manufacturer going to bigger wheels/lower profile tires (their motivation for doing so, aside) and then Johnny (who is only interestd in looking cool) comes along and goes to even more extreems while giving no thought to how it further affects load limts; then that is a big problem waiting for a place to happen.

It is not the manufacturer's "fault" but the manufacturers DO have a responsibility (and for that matter, so do the aftermarket wheel and tire manufacturers and those who sell them) to let customers know the potential dangers...the sad fact is, most people don't know how to maintain their car or their cars limits and don't have a clue when it comes to issues like this.

But they are telling people. It is on the car. I don't think you can ask a car manufacture to come up with warnings for every possible change to a car that could have a potential danger and tell all of their customers about it.

Now, to the companies who make after market parts, I think they should provide information like this, and they probably are. I would take a look at the tires to see what information they provide on the tire or on the sticker that comes on the tire. What I don't expect is that someone who sells the product to explain verbally the limits of the product.