Why can't I get a manual trans in a Impala

Or even the malibu.

:confused:

What does Chevy offer for the family guy(or single guy) that wants a fullsize sedan and wants to row the gears?

B/c it isn't profitable to engineer and sell at the volumes that people are willing to buy. Name a midsize/fullsize non luxury car that you can get a stick in.

I agree - it stinks. The early W-body's had manuals I believe. Would it have been that expensive to develop a manual that could handle the 3800's torque? Imagine how incredible the L67 powered cars would have been if mated to a sweet 6 speed.

B/c it isn't profitable to engineer and sell at the volumes that people are willing to buy. Name a midsize/fullsize non luxury car that you can get a stick in.

Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, (until recently) Nissan Maxima, VW Passat, Mazda6.

B/c it isn't profitable to engineer and sell at the volumes that people are willing to buy. Name a midsize/fullsize non luxury car that you can get a stick in.

Honda Accord.

Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, (until recently) Nissan Maxima, VW Passat, Mazda6.

All of the top engines? Or just the base 4 cylinders?

All of the top engines? Or just the base 4 cylinders?

Top engines, save for the Passat.

All of the top engines? Or just the base 4 cylinders?
Manual transmissions are well on their way out - the trend has been going that way for years now and when given a choice, most people choose an automatic.

I don't have the stats in front of me but the last time I saw them I was amazed at how very few manuals are sold any more...even in vehicles where manual trans are somewhat traditional, such as sports cars, are increasingly being sold with automatics.

Bottom line is, it's expensive to set-up an assembly line to offer choices that most people don't want.

It seems like Honda, BMW, VW have a dedicated manual fan base so I doubt they will stop making them any time soon.

A manual sedan driver wouldn't even bother visiting the GM dealer, because its not a product they have offered on a consistent basis.

I think the GTP/Impalla SS would have jumped all over a manual option.

GM's lack of manual transmissions reveals there remains work to be done on globalizing the company. It's true that there is no profit motive for designing a manual transmission for the American market. The same argument holds for building a class leading American compact car.

The foreign models I mentioned have manuals because they are global vehicles that also sell in countries where manuals still dominate. Selling these cars with manuals costs Honda and VW nothing.

As GM is becoming more globally efficient, I'd like to see the windfalls reach the consumer. That is, not only should GM be global to save money, but also to offer us products and features we'd otherwise not see. The most obvious examples of that are Saturn and the Pontiac G8. I want more. In Epsilon II there should be no reason for the 9-3 to have a manual, but not the G6.

GM doesnt offer manual trans in full size (fwd) cars for the same reason they couldnt offer v8's in the 90's lumina/gps or 00 impalas.. The fwd trans they have cant handle the power. Even the automatic in the L67 equipped cars is barely adiquit. With huge loads of torque control added to the programming. The larger trans from the caddies was to big for the w-body platform also I believe.

I bought a brand new 2007 Ford Focus wagon (it's my work car, don't laugh) because of one simple reason: The only vehicle I could get at the Chevy dealer with a manual trans was a HHR or Cobalt.

The Cobalt was too small to carry all the parts I have to carry with me and the HHR was pretty much impossible to find with a manual that didn't have to be ordered and cost me $19K.

My first idea was to buy a Malibu Maxx with a 4 cylinder and 5 speed. There is no such thing. Cobalt doesn't have a wagon body. I went over to the Pontiac dealership and looked at a Vibe, but I really didn't want a Toyota in Pontiac badging (I REALLY hate Toyota).

So I ended up at the Ford dealership. Got a killer deal on the wagon, got my 5 speed manual. And 22K miles later, I'm still happy with my purchase. I still don't see why people like autos so much, but I guess since I've been driving manuals since I was 16, it's kinda hard to want an auto.

GM's lack of manual transmissions reveals there remains work to be done on globalizing the company.

True - I seem to recall that the G6 uses a different floorpan than the previous-gen Malibu and Aura to accommodate the manual.

Manuals may not be popular over here (they're less than 5% of sales in most market segments), but they make up more than 85% of sales in Europe and Asia. It's damn easy for automakers which are well-established in those markets to provide sufficient volume to the US market (many of those OEMs in fact manufacture their own manual transmissions), where as companies like GM lack the capacity to provide such an option.

GM did offer a stick on the 2006 G6 GTP and 2007 G6 GT (w/Performance package), but they discontinued it. The transmission they used was taken right out of a Saab and it sucks.

B/c it isn't profitable to engineer and sell at the volumes that people are willing to buy. Name a midsize/fullsize non luxury car that you can get a stick in.

Speaking of globalizing and non luxury high powered manual full sized sedans, what about G8?

Speaking of globalizing and non luxury high powered manual full sized sedans, what about G8?
Too bad the V6 wont come with the manual.

All I've got to say is that if the 5th gen Camaro doesn't offer a manual transmission, I won't want one. :no: I hope to God that's not the case though.

If they dont offer a manual transmission in a sports car, its pretty much time to wrap it up.

As for family sedans, there is no more demand for them. You dont see them in Camry, you dont see them in Avalon, Taurus, etc. The manual trans in America means = cheap model.
Like osmeone said, most companies that make cars for outside the US tend to already design manual trans since there is a large take for them.

No manual transmission option FTL.... :no:

Maybe cause I live in NJ and am constantly about 2 mm off someone's rear bumper...why in the world would someone desire a manual trans so bad, that it would sway them from a purchase of a vehicle that has meet or exceeded all levels of expectation?
I see the alure of it on open roads and the ability to row your own, but I would much prefer an auto or automanual trans over a manual trans any day.

Maybe cause I live in NJ and am constantly about 2 mm off someone's rear bumper...why in the world would someone desire a manual trans so bad, that it would sway them from a purchase of a vehicle that has meet or exceeded all levels of expectation?
I see the alure of it on open roads and the ability to row your own, but I would much prefer an auto or automanual trans over a manual trans any day.

If I can't afford a sports car with manual trans I'd like to at least have the option in buying a cheaper sedan with a manual to brighten my day. I've been DDing a 92 accord w/5speed for over 5 years now and it makes the car enjoyable. :)

...the ability to row your own...That's it. Don't take it past this point. Your reasons are perfectly valid, rational, and practical, but for those of us who prefer manuals, the reasoning pretty much starts and stops with what's quoted.

I live in Northern VA traffic hell, too, and the Lexus IS350 ultimately got bumped in favor of my 2006 TL, because of the 6spd manual.

I now have two manual cars (2006 TL 6spd, my '80Z with T56) and an auto car (2002 TL-S), and the '02 will likely get sold/traded early because I don't care much for autos. It's also the reason that it was easier to give up my '92 auto Vette than my '80 6spd Z when it was time for one of them to go.

EDIT- the 2007 Accord V6 can be had with 6spd manual, but the new 2008 models cannot. Only the 4cyls get a 5spd manual FTL.

What Todd80 said, and

Maybe cause I live in NJ and am constantly about 2 mm off someone's rear bumper...why in the world would someone desire a manual trans so bad, that it would sway them from a purchase of a vehicle that has meet or exceeded all levels of expectation?
I see the alure of it on open roads and the ability to row your own, but I would much prefer an auto or automanual trans over a manual trans any day.
TBH, I generally prefer driving a manual in traffic, because you can coast through the gears rather the gas/brake dance you end up doing in an auto. A manual is a pita on certain hills around here (San Francisco) though.

Also, you can get some very good vehicles with a manual, so you aren't missing out on much by limiting your options.

EDIT- the 2007 Accord V6 can be had with 6spd manual, but the new 2008 models cannot. Only the 4cyls get a 5spd manual FTL.

According to what I've read, the V6 coupe can have the six speed manual, but it loses the displacement on demand.

Correct, only the V6 Coupe has the 6spd manual. Again, not enough draw and since our Accord is made stateside, the cost of developing and cert. a 6spd manual for the sedan would be wasting cash in the eyes of Honda.

I do see a change in the automakers that it used to be manual = cheap cars, and now manual = top trim sports car.
G6 GTP was the only car you could get a 6spd manual on
Accord V6 EX-L is the only car
The GTO's only option was a 700 dollar 6spd, and itwill probably be that way for G8
The "sport" image is now moving upscale, and now the manual trans is going to only be grouped with that.

The "sport" image is now moving upscale, and now the manual trans is going to only be grouped with that.

As long as you can get manuals in econoboxs, I don't think anyone is going to view a manual trans as upscale.

I'd rather have a manual tranny over an auto any day ofthe week. But my Bonneville doesnt come with one :( It's alot cheaper to change a clutch than to change an automatic tranny if they go bad.

As long as you can get manuals in econoboxs, I don't think anyone is going to view a manual trans as upscale.

You can get an autobox in an econbox too, does that mean noone will view them as upscale either??

FWIW, all Mazdas cars (the 3, 5, 6, MX-5, RX8) and the B-series offer a M/T with any engine, the Tribute offers it with the 4-cyl.

As far as I can see, I will not buy another auto car ever. My last 3 cars have been M/Ts and the GTA is being converted over.

GM needs to

Just to give you an idea to how popular automatics are, consider that Camaros were one of the cars with the highest percentage of manual transmission ordered of any American car.

YET.......

69.5% were sold with automatics!!

6 speed manuals honored only 24.4% of Camaros.

Manual V6s made up a scant 6% of all Camaro production.

If your question is why you can't get a manual in a Impala, it doesn't take much imagination that if you could, you could probally hold a gathering of all manual Impala owners around a kitchen table.

There simply wouldn't be enough sold to make a manual Impala anything other than a serious money losing adventure.

The next Impala might fare a bit better. The cost of including a manual option (no, not standard... optional!) is pretty good since the development & certification costs would be rolled into the Australian VE & WM, which have a higher percentage of manuals than you could begin to remotely hope for in your wildest dreams for an American full size (or even mid size) car.

Just to give you an idea to how popular automatics are, consider that Camaros were one of the cars with the highest percentage of manual transmission ordered of any American car.

YET.......

69.5% were sold with automatics!!

6 speed manuals honored only 24.4% of Camaros.This is not entirely the free market at work. It seems to me GM decided, for the most part, what the mix would be, build the cars as such, and off they go to the dealers. I know when I bought my Z new (fall '93), manuals were essentially impossible to come by, and the ones that were around, all had that stupid-ass "Market Adjustment" of $3000 or so tacked on. So, my choices were-

1. Order a '94 at sticker.
2. Pay $3000 OVER sticker for the M6
3. Pay $2500 UNDER sticker for a nicely equipped A4 model.

I was financially persuaded to take the A4, of course. Since this wasn't the car I *really* wanted, it was fairly easy to trade it in just 14 months later when my wife really wanted a new Accord. If it had been the M6, I'd likely have flat said "no way," but the A4 car was like "meh."

I've tried (and actually bought) several F-bodies over the years, and it's always been like this. I couldn't get my hands on an '89 GTA LB9/5psd combo to save my life.

I'm certainly not saying that GM would sell a crapton of Impalas with sticks, but they would likely pick up quite a few Japanese car buyers who lean that way because of availability of manuals.

This is not entirely the free market at work. It seems to me GM decided, for the most part, what the mix would be, build the cars as such, and off they go to the dealers. I know when I bought my Z new (fall '93), manuals were essentially impossible to come by, and the ones that were around, all had that stupid-ass "Market Adjustment" of $3000 or so tacked on.

I can't remember the source, but I remember reading that GM totally botched the market allocation of M6 cars when the '93 F-body was launched. It was assumed that the mix would be about 95/5 in favor of the auto, when actually about 50% of the first-year buyers wanted the M6 (I'm guessing that this dropped down to guionM's 30% number after the hardcore enthusiasts got their cars). I'm sure that Borg-Warner couldn't just simply ramp up product on a new transmission by a factor of 10x without a lot of pain, and so the dealers did their usual thing.

I also recall something similar happening when the C5 launched - A4/M6 allocation was way off for several months.

I also recall something similar happening when the C5 launched - A4/M6 allocation was way off for several months.

Possibly being directly responsible for C6 having a 6spd standard? :)

This is not entirely the free market at work. It seems to me GM decided, for the most part, what the mix would be, build the cars as such, and off they go to the dealers. I know when I bought my Z new (fall '93), manuals were essentially impossible to come by, and the ones that were around, all had that stupid-ass "Market Adjustment" of $3000 or so tacked on. So, my choices were-

1. Order a '94 at sticker.
2. Pay $3000 OVER sticker for the M6
3. Pay $2500 UNDER sticker for a nicely equipped A4 model.

I was financially persuaded to take the A4, of course. Since this wasn't the car I *really* wanted, it was fairly easy to trade it in just 14 months later when my wife really wanted a new Accord. If it had been the M6, I'd likely have flat said "no way," but the A4 car was like "meh."

I've tried (and actually bought) several F-bodies over the years, and it's always been like this. I couldn't get my hands on an '89 GTA LB9/5psd combo to save my life.

I'm certainly not saying that GM would sell a crapton of Impalas with sticks, but they would likely pick up quite a few Japanese car buyers who lean that way because of availability of manuals.

Actually, you're wrong about it not being free market forces. In reality it is.

As mentioned, there were issues regarding the availablity of the new 6 speed manual in the '93 Camaro (which if I remember, was an almost last minute addition to the program). The markups you mentioned were due to the shortage of 6 speeds being manufactured due to the inability to produce enough (Borg Warner had to supply this new, then low production tranny to Dodge for the Viper, GM for the Corvette, and had to ramp up production to supply the F-bodies. GM didn't manipulate availability.


Eric is pretty dead on in his assesment. Once enthusiasts got their share, sales mix settled into over 2/3s automatic and less than 1/3 automatics. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but over half of all Corvettes are automatics as well. Keep in mind, we're talking the highest percentage of manuals of any cars on the US market. All others are far and away worse.

Just because you & I prefer manuals, doesn't mean the world shares that view. As manual buyers, we're actually about 10% of the market overall.

(Borg Warner had to supply this new, then low production tranny to Dodge for the Viper, GM for the Corvette, and had to ramp up production to supply the F-bodies. GM didn't manipulate availability.

I believe that the 'Vette had the 6 speed souced from ZF.

Yep, Vette used ZF trans through the end of C4 in '96. The C5 transaxle went to T56.

So, GM gave Borg Warner bogus numbers, they built to those numbers, and the botch was BW's fault? I don't get that thinking. It looks like it was as I said- "It seems to me GM decided, for the most part, what the mix would be, build the cars as such, and off they go to the dealers."
Now that I'm thinking about it, I wonder if GM has a "lessons learned" from this, and is altering their launch of the 5th gen based on this?

It also seems to me that "regular folk" cars that have a manual trans option are taken more seriously by the automotive press. You'd think that the marketing aspect of having the manual trans option would supplant some of the needed advertising to keep sales numbers up. Perception, and all that.

Another thing worth noting (at least to me) is that when domestic companies offer manual transmissions they tend to half ass it. Not so much with performance cars, but with regular cars... they just don't seem to compare well to those in a Honda or VW.

If I wanted a manual transmission sedan or wagon, I don't think I'd instinctively look at a domestic car, and I like domestic cars.

But in general, I don't get why Autos make up ~90% of sales. I can see a majority, but for all the people that claim to like driving, a number > than 10%, the sales numbers don't seem to support it.

I will never own another automatic :D

It also seems to me that "regular folk" cars that have a manual trans option are taken more seriously by the automotive press. You'd think that the marketing aspect of having the manual trans option would supplant some of the needed advertising to keep sales numbers up. Perception, and all that.
Yep -- I think this is why GM put manuals in cars like Olds Cutlass Supreme, even though they sold in minuscule numbers.

...But in general, I don't get why Autos make up ~90% of sales. I can see a majority, but for all the people that claim to like driving, a number > than 10%, the sales numbers don't seem to support it.
Most (but definitely not all) enthusiasts would agree that a manual transmission is more “fun”…makes you feel more “connected” with the vehicle and more in control. However, while the feelings may well be valid (and I have those same feelings) a truly good automatic gives up very little (and sometimes nothing at all) to a manual even in most performance applications; especially if the manual is mediocre in design or function.

That aside, while I assume you are an enthusiast (or you wouldn’t be here) the majority of drivers are not enthusiasts and they, and a fair number of people who claim they enjoy “driving” want convenience more than they want fun (assuming they even know how to drive a manual and/or are willing to learn if they don’t).

I see the long-standing movement toward automatics and away from manuals, even on “basic” cars as part of the transition to making standard, options that used to only be offered on “luxury” cars…it was not all that long ago when anything more than an AM radio, air conditioning, power windows, power door locks (and the list goes on) would be found only in upper-end/luxury models…now they are almost minimum requirements before people will even consider buying a car.

My last sports car was an auto, my current one is a six speed…both were/are “fun”…while I’ll likely continue to get a manual when I can, I don’t feel as if I must have one in order to enjoy the car or the drive, even to compete in autocross and other events.

I agree. There is certainly a small faction of performance enthusiasts who need to have a manual. There are a lot more people that claim they enjoy manuals more or even that sporty cars have to have manuals and yet buy automatics. For the most part, even a regular automatic transmission isn't a deal-breaker for most of these folks if the rest of the car is what they are looking for, especially in the more mainstream segments. And the newer autos with tiptronic, or tapshift, or sportshift, or whatever you want to call it satisfy the great majority of the rest of the people.

I don't have the numbers, but I was under the impression that even in Europe the percentage of autos sold each year has been gradually on the rise.

I haven't read the thread. Wait a couple months and buy a G8. :)

Of my group of friends, 3 of us can drive a manual transmission, including me and my brother. The other 5 can't, and/or have no desire for one. Most people don't want to put out the added effort. Personally I like driving a manual.

Just to give you an idea to how popular automatics are, consider that Camaros were one of the cars with the highest percentage of manual transmission ordered of any American car.

YET.......

69.5% were sold with automatics!!

6 speed manuals honored only 24.4% of Camaros.

Manual V6s made up a scant 6% of all Camaro production.


That's an amazingly higher number. I'm no statistics major, but 24% of all Camaro's and 6% of V6's must mean that a very large percentage of Z/28 and SS buyers opted for a stick.

Must say I'm rather proud of Camaro drivers - they really are enthusiasts.

Almost every car I've owned has been a stick. It feels weird to drive an automatic. Sometimes I wish I had my old A4 LS1 Camaro, but there isn't quite anything like a 6 speed...

Another thing worth noting (at least to me) is that when domestic companies offer manual transmissions they tend to half ass it. Not so much with performance cars, but with regular cars... they just don't seem to compare well to those in a Honda or VW.

If I wanted a manual transmission sedan or wagon, I don't think I'd instinctively look at a domestic car, and I like domestic cars.

But in general, I don't get why Autos make up ~90% of sales. I can see a majority, but for all the people that claim to like driving, a number > than 10%, the sales numbers don't seem to support it.

Great points.

I love Thunderbird SCs. But although the manual trannies in them are indestructable (Mazda built heavy duty units right out of Ranger pickup trucks), the shifters are notoriously notchy.

Most of the Corvettes & Camaro SS I look into have automatics.

Even though Dodge Challengers are going to have 6 speeds, I don't think there's going to come close to the 33% of sales that there was with the Camaro. Even though the manual is planned to migrate to at least 1 LX car soon, I suspect that the number of people who actually order them that way will be not much more than single digits.