What kind of Z-28 do you want?

Affordable, G-machine with 400+HP?
Expensive, Techno-Wizard with 500+hp?
Something in between?

Is there any info out there to point us in a certain direction?

My lifes circle would be complete if I could get a 430 hp Z/28 for 30k.

Ahh, one can only hope

We don't have any real information so far. Nobody at GM has even said there will be a Z28.

That said, I am confident that there will be a Z28, and I don't think it will be either of the cars you described, nor will it be "between" them. My hunch is that the one you labeled "affordable" is probably closest, so I voted for that one.

My predictions (which are worth nothing, as I get all my information from this board):

I think that SS will continue to be "top dog" as it was in the 4th gen cars. I'd rather it were the other way around, but that's my hunch as to where Chevy's going with it.

Z28, in its base form, will be the road racer version. Tons of power (I'm hoping for the LS3) and an excellent handling package will be standard, and there will be lots of optional stuff. I'm pegging the base price at 28k.

I'm thinking SS will get an even better engine. I don't think GM would dilute the new super-Vette's exclusivity by using the supercharged 6.2, and I really don't think they'd use the hand-built, titanium-laden LS7, so I'm not sure what to guess here. Maybe Z28 gets the LS2, and SS gets the LS3. Hard to say.

Most of the stuff that's optional on Z28 will be standard on SS. There will be a couple of parts you can get on an SS but not a Z28, and a set of performance-minded options for those who want their SS's to stand out a little extra. Base price 33k, loaded into the low 40's.

My personal hope is that there's a GT500-killing extra-special, limited-edition Camaro in addition to the Z28 and SS. ZL1 is the obvious name choice, but you can never be sure. It would get the supercharged 6.2 and cost about fifty grand. This one wouldn't come around until at least the second year, if not later.

i would be happy with the one runs.

Z28 = Top car. In all realness it'll probably be a little more expensive than the top M*stang at the time.

If they don't build a Z28, GM can **** off. :mad:

I want mine like this SS.

Z28= 350hp roadcourse
SS= 430hp straight line speed.

Z28 = Shelby GT-500 killer in my dreams.. so 38-42 k is my pick

SS will be base V8

What kind Z/28 do I want?

Well, certainly not the formula that brought us the GT500. I have absolutely no interest in lots of horsepower wrapped in a pig of a car - certainly not, for of all things, a Z/28.

I think many of us have true appreciation for the laser like focus that Chevy put into the Z06. That's exactly the sort of focus required for a "real" Z/28. Keep panzy fluff to a minimum. Make a serious effort to reduce weight from the regular V8 model. Tune chassis, brakes, shifter, power delivery, steering, to make the package feel like an extension of you around a road course. Give it a lustful, free revving motor, which is worthy of the Z/28 emblem on the fender. And it must have a seriously badass attitude - in it's stance, in it's performance and in it's lineage.

For all of that, I'm willing to pay. Without all of that, lower price won't compell me to buy.

Is there any info out there to point us in a certain direction?
Yes. :rolleyes:

Gimme a Blue (brilliant electric blue) convertible with white leather interior, with a white or black top. White rally stripes. 6 speed. Navigation. XM radio. 400+ horsepower. 3.42 gear. Power windows/locks. Done. Oh, and make it $30,000.

What kind Z/28 do I want?

Well, certainly not the formula that brought us the GT500. I have absolutely no interest in lots of horsepower wrapped in a pig of a car - certainly not. for of all things, a Z/28.

I think many of us have true appreciation for the laser like focus that Chevy put into the Z06. That's exactly the sort of focus required for a "real" Z/28. Keep panzy fluff to a minimum. Make a serious effort to reduce weight from the regular V8 model. Tune chassis, brakes, shifter, power delivery, steering, to make the package feel like an extension of you around a road course. Give it a lustful, free revving motor, which is worthy of the Z/28 emblem on the fender. And it must have a seriously badass attitude - in it's stance, in it's performance and in it's lineage.

For all of that, I'm willing to pay. Without all of that, lower price won't compell me to buy.

Ditto!!:thumb:
Clyde

I want the Z/28 to be the Camaro's version of the Z06 - fast, good handling, a road-racer for the street. The SS should (and will) be the mid-level V8 model, with some nice luxury and performance options.

What kind Z/28 do I want?

Well, certainly not the formula that brought us the GT500. I have absolutely no interest in lots of horsepower wrapped in a pig of a car - certainly not. for of all things, a Z/28.

I think many of us have true appreciation for the laser like focus that Chevy put into the Z06. That's exactly the sort of focus required for a "real" Z/28. Keep panzy fluff to a minimum. Make a serious effort to reduce weight from the regular V8 model. Tune chassis, brakes, shifter, power delivery, steering, to make the package feel like an extension of you around a road course. Give it a lustful, free revving motor, which is worthy of the Z/28 emblem on the fender. And it must have a seriously badass attitude - in it's stance, in it's performance and in it's lineage.

For all of that, I'm willing to pay. Without all of that, lower price won't compell me to buy.

+1
It needs to be worthy of the Z/28 badge. Price won't matter otherwise.

After putting a little thought into this, the Z/28 should be the "cheaper" (or "more affordable" ;)) V8, basic features, but with a Z51-like "option" (like the 'Vette) that gives you the premium suspension parts available ... sort of how the 4th-gen SS came equipped (springs/shocks/sway bars/17's vs. 16's). Maybe throw in a cat-back exhaust or something for power, but that's not even the important part. Although, I think the Z/28 and SS should share the ~430 HP LS3 engine :thumb:.

The Camaro SS shall receive all of the "trick" goodies available, whether they come standard or are simply available options. Same LS3 engine, but "if" there are any thoughts of a "GT500" killer, give that to the SS (since I think in this world of name/brand recognition, "SS" would be easily recognized as the "top dog").

With all of those options, it'll be like how Dodge offers the Charger with its base engine, then the 5.7L Hemi, and the "big" 6.1L Hemi. Or Ford with the V6, base V8, and GT500.

Back to the Z/28 though. While it should be the cheapest of all the V8's, it should NOT be deprived of power (ie: ~350 HP vs. ~430 HP for the SS) and it should NOT have a lesser suspension than the SS.

That's my $.02 :cool:.

Although, I think the Z/28 and SS should share the ~430 HP LS3 engine :thumb:.




Assuming 430 hp is competitive circa '10/'11 (which I'm not so sure of for a package like Z/28), I'd actually be okay with that.

I can imagine the Z/28 powertrain being better optimized for it's mission as Camaro's hunter/killer though. Things like specific weight flywheel, axle ratio, exhaust, intake, etc.

Also, regarding it being a GT500 killer, (which probably won't even exist when the Z/28 comes out), I think a 3,500 lbs Z/28 with a 450-ish hp smallblock, would club a 3900+ lbs, 500 hp GT500, like it was a baby seal.

Back to the Z/28 though. While it should be the cheapest of all the V8's, it should NOT be deprived of power (ie: ~350 HP vs. ~430 HP for the SS) and it should NOT have a lesser suspension than the SS.
Agree, except I'd be cool with it if the Z/28 had a fixed suspension that was very well tuned for track driving, while the SS had an electronically adjustable suspension which closely approximated the Z/28's settings in "race" mode, while offering a smoother ride in a "cruise" mode.

I think a 3,500 lbs Z/28 with a 450-ish hp smallblock, would club a 3900+ lbs, 500 hp GT500, like it was a baby seal.
:lol:

After putting a little thought into this, the Z/28 should be the "cheaper" (or "more affordable" ;)) V8, basic features, but with a Z51-like "option" (like the 'Vette) that gives you the premium suspension parts available ... sort of how the 4th-gen SS came equipped (springs/shocks/sway bars/17's vs. 16's). Maybe throw in a cat-back exhaust or something for power, but that's not even the important part. Although, I think the Z/28 and SS should share the ~430 HP LS3 engine :thumb:.

The Camaro SS shall receive all of the "trick" goodies available, whether they come standard or are simply available options. Same LS3 engine, but "if" there are any thoughts of a "GT500" killer, give that to the SS (since I think in this world of name/brand recognition, "SS" would be easily recognized as the "top dog").

With all of those options, it'll be like how Dodge offers the Charger with its base engine, then the 5.7L Hemi, and the "big" 6.1L Hemi. Or Ford with the V6, base V8, and GT500.

Back to the Z/28 though. While it should be the cheapest of all the V8's, it should NOT be deprived of power (ie: ~350 HP vs. ~430 HP for the SS) and it should NOT have a lesser suspension than the SS.

That's my $.02 :cool:.

Cheapest of all the V-8s?? Cheaper even than the base V-8?? I don't think so!! There should be IMHO at least 3 V-8s, base V-8, Z/28, SS.
Clyde

Cheapest of all the V-8s?? Cheaper even than the base V-8?? I don't think so!! There should be IMHO at least 3 V-8s, base V-8, Z/28, SS.
Clyde

It's looking like the SS will be the base V8 car now, and will be competing directly with whatever the Mustang GT will be packing under the hood by then.

It's looking like the SS will be the base V8 car now, and will be competing directly with whatever the Mustang GT will be packing under the hood by then.
Charlie, I know you and I see eye to eye on what a new Z28 should be. I'm curious what you have heard regarding anybody (anybody that matters) sharing the same vision and if there has been movement toward that end.

The topic has been danced around here for years and seemed like that (a "ZO6" or "FR Mustang" Camaro) was the direction at one time. I'm just wondering if there is anything more concrete now.

Surely the first model year has been locked in and I would assume that GM is now looking at the later models and packages.

PM if you like. :D

Cheapest of all the V-8s?? Cheaper even than the base V-8?? I don't think so!! There should be IMHO at least 3 V-8s, base V-8, Z/28, SS.
Clyde
What I'm saying is that the Z28 could potentially BE the "base" V8 (like it was previously) except this time give it a "performance package" (like the former SS, like the current Z51 Corvette) which gives it the top-notch suspension. But to keep it "cheap" (like the original post asked ;)) then it needs to be a base/low-options model. That was my angle. Not necessarily how it "should" or "will" be, but just a thought :cool:.

I mean, if I could REALLY have my way (no compromise involved ;)) I'd want the new Z/28 to basically be a 4-seater C6 Z06 ... high-revving LS7 and all!! :yes: :D If that were the case, I'd spend MORE than any SS.

i agree that the Z28 should have a much thought and effort put into it as the Z06.. make it lighter than a base camaro, with more horsepower than a base v8..

Z28 / SS debates aside for a second. Not ONE person inside GM or out has put up a reasonable arguement for why non vettes should have less power just because. Not once! The Vette has a high tech lighter chasis that validates its price tag. If someone would perfer that in a 4 seater Camaro or GTO package and is willing to pay for that drive train, what is the problem?

Maybe Z28 gets the LS2, and SS gets the LS3. .

Well it definetly won`t get the LS2, production of that engine ceased in may of this year. I doubt they will have enough of those laying around in 09...

My Guess is the LS3 Vette will get a bump to 450fwhp in 09, which in reality it is already w/ a 15% driveline loss, 3 stock C6 LS3`s put down 388, 392, 395 respectively to the tire. So basicly a numbers game and the Camaro will get 425 as the z28 quoted hp. I imagine they will be w/ in 10-15 hp of each other at the tire however, vette and camaro, similar to the C5 and the LS1 slomaro...JMHO...

i would love to have a z/28 sitting in my garage, but that being said i voted for the one that wont be sitting im my garage anytime soon, i think the z/28 should be the fastest best handling car out there and be the car that i dream about having while i have my 430hp ss sitting in my garage.

I'll pay 28k for it.. 32k at the most.. If they want to compete w/ the Stang, they'd better make an affordable V8 Muscle car.. I mean 27k affordable.

THe thing that I keep screaming about is, that they better make a LOT of options with this car! NOT like the GTO where you only really have 5 options.. Interior color, paint color and transmission.. (prolly missing some) Don't make me buy $3000 worth of extra crap just to get the V8. All I want is a LS rear, Possible better suspension package and a 6 speed manual. I don't need onstar, I don't need a fancy radio w/ 12 speakers and a 6 disk changer. -I'll install that stuff myself. I don't need leather or anything really fancy..

ALL OPTIONS PEOPLE!!

Charlie, I know you and I see eye to eye on what a new Z28 should be. I'm curious what you have heard regarding anybody (anybody that matters) sharing the same vision and if there has been movement toward that end.

The topic has been danced around here for years and seemed like that (a "ZO6" or "FR Mustang" Camaro) was the direction at one time. I'm just wondering if there is anything more concrete now.

Surely the first model year has been locked in and I would assume that GM is now looking at the later models and packages.

PM if you like. :D

Well, I think there are those at Chevy who finally "get it" regarding the Z/28 and it's role in the 5th gen line up. That's a big deal. Believe me, that was NOT the case during most of the 4th gen. Had GM entrusted the Z/28's brand equity to Zia Zia Gabore during that period, she would have protected it better than it was. And I'm not being facetious - I'm serious as a heart attack.

As far as specifics, it's hard to say, but it's safe to say that the Z/28 will have the baddest suspension, biggest brakes and most powerful motor. Plus some other things specific to it's Z-ness.

My fear might be that too many marketing people might want to put their 2 cents into the Z/28 program and dilute the package. This one, IMHO, should be left relatively pure - for the enthusiasts.

Give me the Camaro in stripes, with some strong breaks and suspension nice performance oriented wheels and interior and the LS3 or whatever LS engine brings 430 hp at the time and I'll be happy.

i think whatever car has the LS3.. should be about equal to the GTO's price with the same options the GTO came with.. adjusted for inflation of course

which means a base Camaro w/LS3 would be under 30k easy

I'll pay 28k for it.. 32k at the most.. If they want to compete w/ the Stang, they'd better make an affordable V8 Muscle car.. I mean 27k affordable.

THe thing that I keep screaming about is, that they better make a LOT of options with this car! NOT like the GTO where you only really have 5 options.. Interior color, paint color and transmission.. (prolly missing some) Don't make me buy $3000 worth of extra crap just to get the V8. All I want is a LS rear, Possible better suspension package and a 6 speed manual. I don't need onstar, I don't need a fancy radio w/ 12 speakers and a 6 disk changer. -I'll install that stuff myself. I don't need leather or anything really fancy..

ALL OPTIONS PEOPLE!!

Problem with that is a base GTO is like a base Vette. They are flagships, not just halo cars. That does not translate to a Camaro with a base V6 that doesnt have to carry the brand image by itself or even at the top like the vette.

Give me the Camaro in stripes, with some strong breaks and suspension nice performance oriented wheels and interior and the LS3 or whatever LS engine brings 430 hp at the time and I'll be happy.

I want the LS3 also. If it is producing more than 430 at the time all the better. The Z28 will probably be 50-100 hp above and alot more money so LS3 is where I would like to be.

on a side note, does every one realize the M3 concept accordind to estimates in R&T May 07 p.62

est $65,000
420bhp
295lb tq
redline 8500
wheelbase 108.7
length est 180
width est 72.5
height est 55
weight est 3500

Compare that to the LS3 Camaro SS my estimates/guesses

coupe est $27-$35
430hp
424tq
weight est 3600-3700
Wheelbase (in/mm): est 110.5
Length (in/mm): est 186.7
Width (in/mm): est 77.6
Height (in/mm): est 53.5

I dont know how bhp converts to hp but, LS3 SS with a kick as 1LE road package? yes please!

5thgen69camaro.

Interesting comparison to the M3 concept. Although I doubt anyone will ever as they never have compared the two cars as it's felt they are in different classes. But it's always interesting to see how they could compare. As much I love the last gen M3's and the ones before the Camaro's of those years certainly did have them in straight line running and bench racing too. Yet again the arguement is always what car would you rather have or be in and that usually seems to tip to the M3. Make no mistake the Camaro and Vette put up the numbers when the chips are down regardless of price.

I dont know how bhp converts to hp but

There is no conversion. BHP is brake horsepower, which is horsepower measured at the flywheel. It is so called because they measure it using a brake.

:)

5thgen69camaro.

Interesting comparison to the M3 concept. Although I doubt anyone will ever as they never have compared the two cars as it's felt they are in different classes. But it's always interesting to see how they could compare. As much I love the last gen M3's and the ones before the Camaro's of those years certainly did have them in straight line running and bench racing too. Yet again the arguement is always what car would you rather have or be in and that usually seems to tip to the M3. Make no mistake the Camaro and Vette put up the numbers when the chips are down regardless of price.

I know they are rarely compared and that is what is so cool about it. It seems to me the Vette was rarely seriously compared to Ferrari before the C6 Z06. This upcomming Camaro has IRS. Youre right, the M3 will have expensive material, and gadgets and stuff and I am bench racing. Im just saying look at the potential and how close you get(at least on paper so far) to the top 3 series for less than half the price. This isnt even the top of the line Camaro. Neat I think.

There is no conversion. BHP is brake horsepower, which is horsepower measured at the flywheel. It is so called because they measure it using a brake.

:)

Thanks! So is it the same as HP at the flywheel, or is it a completely different rating. As in do our fly wheel hp ratings test them differently than using a brake.

Thanks! So is it the same as HP at the flywheel, or is it a completely different rating. As in do our fly wheel hp ratings test them differently than using a brake.

Almost all manufacturer horsepower ratings are in BHP. In general, it's safe to assume that they're the same.

An engine dyno uses a brake. I don't know of any other way to measure flywheel horsepower.

Just give me an affordable Z. I don't need 500 horses and brick hard suspension. Leave that to crazies who think they're going to race on the street.

Just give me an affordable Z. I don't need 500 horses and brick hard suspension. Leave that to crazies who think they're going to race on the street.
Some of those "crazies" (myself included) actually take their street cars onto race tracks ;). Suddenly, EVERYTHING (ie: brakes, suspension, etc.) really matter!! :yes:

In the US, you guys have the SCCA, and up here we have the CASC, which is a governing body over grass-roots type racing. SoloSprint is a series of racing that allows average people to take their street cars out onto the track, and compete in a safe, controlled environment, against a clock (not door-to-door ;)) ... well, there is a "points" system to classify the cars (based on size, power, suspension, etc.) ... every car has a predetermined point assigned, based on being "stock" from the factory. Every mod you make adds points, until you start moving up classes. ANYWAY, long story short, the more that GM puts into the Z28 from the factory, the less mods have to be made AFTER the fact, the fewer points you get dinged on, and the better you do in your respective class! :D

Just give me an affordable Z. I don't need 500 horses and brick hard suspension. Leave that to crazies who think they're going to race on the street.

Spoken like a true bowtie guy.

Personally, I want a low slung, high horsepower, stiff suspension car. BUT lets face it, that is pretty much why the Mustang sold so many more cars than the F-body. Women and mid life crises guys drive the market. Somebody that wants either a "sporty" V6 car or the V8 grunt, but also want a minivan driveable vehicle. After the 80s, the GM enthusiast seemed to want a ground pounder that could outhandle and out accelerate a Mustang. Having been beat on every level all through the 80s, they were tired of it. So GM abliged. Built a cheap Mustang beater. But it wasnt very pretty, and it rattled, and it rode rough etc etc. It sold well in the beginning but in the later years it lost its appeal to women and mid lifers, switching to a more civilized Mustang.

So all in all, I think GM needs to come to a comprimise between the non-enthusiasts just looking for a sporty car, and the true enthusiasts looking for a trackable out of the box racer. In my opinion, the Mustang of the 90s to present is too slow, rides and sits high like a minivan, and has questionable handling. But it sounds badass with a simple catback. Thats what the general, non enthusiast, public want. Granted there are Mustang enthusiasts, but they do not make Ford any money. It is the regular buyer looking for a "sporty car" that drives sales.

So in the end we need an out of the box decent platform to build off of, that also appeals to the general public.

Affordable? 28k? Are you crazy. The car should have a base modle at around 20k *V6* and a few variants of the V8's with some higher prices. The car shouldn't cost more than 30k and that would be pushing it for an SS. Seriously these cars were ORGINALLY created to be an affordable sports car. If they were to put the prices up that high, the Mustang would have already won this battle.

Affordable? 28k? Are you crazy. The car should have a base modle at around 20k *V6* and a few variants of the V8's with some higher prices. The car shouldn't cost more than 30k and that would be pushing it for an SS. Seriously these cars were ORGINALLY created to be an affordable sports car. If they were to put the prices up that high, the Mustang would have already won this battle.

Ummm, if you read the title of the thread/poll, it asks what kind of Z/28 do you want, nothing about the price of a base V-6 Camaro.
Clyde

There should be a few more options in the poll.An affordable Z-28 with say~430 hp...I would vote for.But just a v-8 with 350 hp in the 30k range ...ummmm no.I would pay for a factory car in the 430 up hp range with handling and drivability.I guess they would have to offer a cheap v-6 model,just to get production numbers.

Ummm, if you read the title of the thread/poll, it asks what kind of Z/28 do you want, nothing about the price of a base V-6 Camaro.
Clyde

Still though you can get a mustang GT for well under 30k. I know they are two differnt cars, but still i think GM should competitivley price this car.

Still though you can get a mustang GT for well under 30k. I know they are two differnt cars, but still i think GM should competitivley price this car.

What makes you think GT competition wouldnt be competitive? Im sure there will be competitive GT competition regaurdless. Depending on how you answered the poll would determine if you wanted the Z28 to be that competition...

If they don't build a Z28, GM can **** off. :mad:

That's How I Feel....I DOnt Wanna Be Flossin A V6....Or When Sumbody Ask Me Wat Kinda Engine Is It.....I Wanna TEll Em Its A Z28 NIgguh....Not It's A V6 But Its Fast/..**** That