"The recipe for 500 RWHP." - LS1Tech thread! WOW!
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,592
From: N Falmouth MA
"The recipe for 500 RWHP." - LS1Tech thread! WOW!
Holy crap there is a LOT of good info in here! I was instantly sucked in at lunch, I couldn't stop reading it! 
This is on Heads and cam, btw... Not full engine build, except a small bit about flat top pistons w/ valve reliefs..
Apparently the LS6 intake and even the ported FAST 90 won't flow above 300cfm, 275 cfm to be exact.. The head flow #'s up twords .500" and .600" don't really matter as much if the plastic intake can't flow that well to begin with. What we are really looking for is the mid lift flow #'s to maximize where the plastic intakes flow best. 300 cfm and under. Take advantage of where it performs the best, basically..
THis guy (Patrick G) had a set of AFR 205 heads milled, chambered and punched to flow better at the .200" - .400" lift area. He picked up 20 HP with this custom head job. He tried a set of 225 heads and picked up virtually 0 hp..
THe exh also has a lot to do with it too.. THe typical Y pipes we have do a bad job of actually encouraging rasp and killing the flow. The merge collector Y pipes, 3" into a 4" intermediate pipe actually flow a lot better and almost eliminate rasp..
Eh... Just read... I'm not going to plagiarize Patrick G's work... I'm just in awe and I must share this!
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=732392
Give it a good 1/2 hour of reading to soak everything up... All I now is I'd better get me a good set of heads and some Kooks LT's w/ a Mufflex Y, w/ the merge collector..
DISCLAIMER: I take NO credit for ANY of the research quoted in this thread. All research and work was performed by the posters or people refered to in the original LS1tech thread. Also, I did not alter any of the numbers or research quoted. I am simply sharing information.
This is on Heads and cam, btw... Not full engine build, except a small bit about flat top pistons w/ valve reliefs..
Apparently the LS6 intake and even the ported FAST 90 won't flow above 300cfm, 275 cfm to be exact.. The head flow #'s up twords .500" and .600" don't really matter as much if the plastic intake can't flow that well to begin with. What we are really looking for is the mid lift flow #'s to maximize where the plastic intakes flow best. 300 cfm and under. Take advantage of where it performs the best, basically..
THis guy (Patrick G) had a set of AFR 205 heads milled, chambered and punched to flow better at the .200" - .400" lift area. He picked up 20 HP with this custom head job. He tried a set of 225 heads and picked up virtually 0 hp..
THe exh also has a lot to do with it too.. THe typical Y pipes we have do a bad job of actually encouraging rasp and killing the flow. The merge collector Y pipes, 3" into a 4" intermediate pipe actually flow a lot better and almost eliminate rasp..
Eh... Just read... I'm not going to plagiarize Patrick G's work... I'm just in awe and I must share this!
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=732392
Give it a good 1/2 hour of reading to soak everything up... All I now is I'd better get me a good set of heads and some Kooks LT's w/ a Mufflex Y, w/ the merge collector..
DISCLAIMER: I take NO credit for ANY of the research quoted in this thread. All research and work was performed by the posters or people refered to in the original LS1tech thread. Also, I did not alter any of the numbers or research quoted. I am simply sharing information.
Last edited by Bayer-Z28; Aug 9, 2007 at 10:38 PM.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,592
From: N Falmouth MA
^ it's not bad.. Granted the heads and work they did on them is the expensive part.. The EXH would run about $1400 too..
I wounder how the TFS heads fair.. I think there are flow #'s in there too..
Yeah.. I do suppose then it would be kind of pricey..
Here we go.. THe 'mesaged' AFR heads on the top quote, and the TF heads on the bottom.. to compare flow #'s easier.
POST: http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showpo...08&postcount=1
THREAD: http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=732392
POST: http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showpo...46&postcount=6
THREAD: http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=732392
I wounder how the TFS heads fair.. I think there are flow #'s in there too..
Yeah.. I do suppose then it would be kind of pricey..
Here we go.. THe 'mesaged' AFR heads on the top quote, and the TF heads on the bottom.. to compare flow #'s easier.
Originally Posted by Patrick G
..............Tony Mamo was very conscientious with his valve jobs to make sure the head flow in milled form was outstanding. Here is what my 205s flowed on a 3.900" bore at 28" of H2O:
AFR 205s with 57cc chamber:
Lift.........200", .300", .400", .500", .550", .600"
Intake.....158,.. 220,.. 264,.. 285,.. 296,.. 300
Exhaust.. 122,.. 178,.. 217,.. 232,.. N/A,.. 241 (with pipe)
.................
On a side note, the 205s still retained the standard CNC porting from AFR. No additional material was removed. This meant that the airspeed was very high and throttle response is fantastic. My fuel economy has increased compared to running the AFR 225s.
AFR 205s with 57cc chamber:
Lift.........200", .300", .400", .500", .550", .600"
Intake.....158,.. 220,.. 264,.. 285,.. 296,.. 300
Exhaust.. 122,.. 178,.. 217,.. 232,.. N/A,.. 241 (with pipe)
.................
On a side note, the 205s still retained the standard CNC porting from AFR. No additional material was removed. This meant that the airspeed was very high and throttle response is fantastic. My fuel economy has increased compared to running the AFR 225s.
THREAD: http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=732392
Originally Posted by ls2 bait
my tfs numbers show:
.200, .300, .400, .500, .550, .600
137.9 219.0 273.5 306.0 315.3 322.3
115.7 176.7 228.7 250.0 258.0 263.1
running a ported fast and a torquer v.2 it looks as though i may be leaving some on the table in the lower end of the spectrum. time for a bigger cam and sheetmetal intake :jest:
.200, .300, .400, .500, .550, .600
137.9 219.0 273.5 306.0 315.3 322.3
115.7 176.7 228.7 250.0 258.0 263.1
running a ported fast and a torquer v.2 it looks as though i may be leaving some on the table in the lower end of the spectrum. time for a bigger cam and sheetmetal intake :jest:
THREAD: http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=732392
Last edited by Bayer-Z28; Aug 9, 2007 at 10:42 PM.
Retired
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 3,166
From: Inside Uranus
Not exactly rocket science. This is the type of thing I've been preaching for years. 
Here's my take on making power, very simply put. Allow me to reiterate what I've said countless times... excuse my rambling/wild tangents.
Heads
Port velocity on heads (as shown by low-lift numbers) matter more than just peak numbers and will make power for a longer period of time, accelerating a car faster than a set of hogged-out heads.
Compression
Compression is key. The more compression, the more power, the more driveable the cam will be, and the more torque. LS1s like mid-upper 11s SCR and a nice quench. You can calculate it by how much you mill the heads (Combustion Chamber Volume) and what headgasket you use.
Cam Selection
When picking a cam, the ones that make the most power without sacrificing low-end torque on a 346 LS1 are the ones in the lower 230s @ .050". (Futral Motorsports F-13, F-14) If you're looking for more high-end power, the mid-high 230s will work nicely. LSA for an NA application should be 110 LSA-112 LSA.
When comparing cams of the same duration/lift, the more advanced the cam is, the less PTV clearance it has. Likewise, an advanced cam will peak earlier. A retarded cam (like mine) will make power later.
Exhaust
LTs are better than shorties in every application. An X-pipe makes more power/torque than anything else.
That's really about it
LS1Tech.com parties like it's 1999.
Here's my take on making power, very simply put. Allow me to reiterate what I've said countless times... excuse my rambling/wild tangents.
Heads
Port velocity on heads (as shown by low-lift numbers) matter more than just peak numbers and will make power for a longer period of time, accelerating a car faster than a set of hogged-out heads.
Compression
Compression is key. The more compression, the more power, the more driveable the cam will be, and the more torque. LS1s like mid-upper 11s SCR and a nice quench. You can calculate it by how much you mill the heads (Combustion Chamber Volume) and what headgasket you use.
Cam Selection
When picking a cam, the ones that make the most power without sacrificing low-end torque on a 346 LS1 are the ones in the lower 230s @ .050". (Futral Motorsports F-13, F-14) If you're looking for more high-end power, the mid-high 230s will work nicely. LSA for an NA application should be 110 LSA-112 LSA.
When comparing cams of the same duration/lift, the more advanced the cam is, the less PTV clearance it has. Likewise, an advanced cam will peak earlier. A retarded cam (like mine) will make power later.
Exhaust
LTs are better than shorties in every application. An X-pipe makes more power/torque than anything else.
That's really about it
LS1Tech.com parties like it's 1999.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 2,022
From: MD
While that is an excellent thread by someone who knows their $hit, with tons of good information, it is lacking one EXTREMELY important key ingredient: a generous, number friendly dyno.
I think Kraest should include "retarded cam" in the mod list of his sig
I think Kraest should include "retarded cam" in the mod list of his sig
Last edited by Marc 85Z28; Aug 10, 2007 at 11:31 AM.
Retired
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 3,166
From: Inside Uranus
110 LSA -4
Registered User
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 2,022
From: MD
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,592
From: N Falmouth MA
^ Yeah.. I get what you're saying.. He means it seriously referring to timing.. but it sounds like he doesn't like it, or it doesn't make power... ... Not a pun on you ,Kraest...
THis is all new to me.. Usually flow #'s and all that seem to loose me.. But that makes sense to me for some reason.. A LOT of good info..
... Not a pun on you ,Kraest... THis is all new to me.. Usually flow #'s and all that seem to loose me.. But that makes sense to me for some reason.. A LOT of good info..
