do people really want a new camaro?

I read a lot of what people are saying they want in the new Camaro. When i think of a Camaro i think of a cheap performance car something affordable to the masses. I think part of what killed the Camaros the first time around was that it strayed to far from that idea maybe im wrong. I feel the priced the Camaro right out of the hand of people who would buy them and instead people turned to cheaper imports and moded them again maybe im wrong.

But now you hear people go i want heated air condition seats, hud, nav and a host of other really high end features. They want the interiors to mimic that of the vett, gto and host of other cars. One of the things that i love about the new camaro concept is how different it is from every other gm product in looks exterior and interior.

To me it seems more like people want to buy the Camaro name then that they real what a camaro and what a camaro really is. At least how i see a Camaro which as a Affordable high performance car with a simple design.

The funny thing is that now-a-days its cheaper to integrate all of the cool stuff into ALL camaros (like power everything and all the stuff you mentioned above) than it is to have "stripper" models. Costs are now shared with other vehicles and even across the globe. If buying a new camaro means I get all of that stuff as a package deal, then cool. But what I really want.... that 400 horse v8 six gears and a clutch! Everything else is just a bonus.

Don't forget, a lot of chicks will be buying these cars and a lot of people will be buying them as their everyday commuter (think high volume V-6 sales.)

Camaro isn't straying from it's heritage, just becoming modernized in a cut throat market! :D

do people really want a new camaro?

Yes.

The funny thing is that now-a-days its cheaper to integrate all of the cool stuff into ALL camaros (like power everything and all the stuff you mentioned above) than it is to have "stripper" models. Costs are now shared with other vehicles and even across the globe. If buying a new camaro means I get all of that stuff as a package deal, then cool. But what I really want.... that 400 horse v8 six gears and a clutch! Everything else is just a bonus.

Don't forget, a lot of chicks will be buying these cars and a lot of people will be buying them as their everyday commuter (think high volume V-6 sales.)

Camaro isn't straying from it's heritage, just becoming modernized in a cut throat market! :D

although yes the options like power windows and door locks and air conditions isn't worth making an option even becuase most people would buy it any way. but stuff like like hud and air condition seats most people would still buy the car with out and who knows how many people would opt to get that stuff but i would say towards the lesser side and it would still drive the price of the car up.

the camaro died off because it obviously did sale good and why was that. most people would buy a camaro regardless of frivolous luxury items. Whats the point of selling a handful of extra option cars to some old guys or would it be a better idea to make a cheaper selling car and draw in a new crowd of young camaro and Chevy people?

i can walk in a chevy dealer and for the most part most of the cars look the same the interiors look the same that boring and thats why chevy doesn't sell cars. they need to make there cars diffrent from one another this way if you dont like the general look or feel of a car you could look at a different car there selling.
Yes.

its not do they want the new camaro is it the name they want to buy and not actually what a camaro is.

Camaro has never been a cheap stripper performance car... ever. Back in the day the Camaro SS was a performer, but it also came with AC, power windows, tilt-steering, and other features that while seem miniscule today were cutting edge circa 1967 and very comparible to day's HUD, NAV and other creature comforts that are standard on almost ever car that is in Camaros price range.

It sounds like you want a cheap performance car without all the bells and whistles. That my friend is not a Camaro, nor has it ever been that. (Except for maybe the original Z/28s.) Why don't you slap a turbo on that Cobalt of yours and let the rest of us have the Camaro we all want.

I think age range has a little to do with this as well, though alot of us may have got our first Camaro in our late teens or earily 20s we've unfortunatly growen older. The people who know the Camaro, want the V8's and can pay for it are not 16 year old kids and desire some degree of comfort and refinement. This car was never meant to compete with the import tuner crowd in price or appeal, otherwise they would offer a 4 cylinder.

Camaro has never been a cheap stripper performance car... ever. Back in the day the Camaro SS was a performer, but it also came with AC, power windows, tilt-steering, and other features that while seem miniscule today were cutting edge circa 1967 and very comparible to day's HUD, NAV and other creature comforts that are standard on almost ever car that is in Camaros price range.

It sounds like you want a cheap performance car without all the bells and whistles. That my friend is not a Camaro, nor has it ever been that. (Except for maybe the original Z/28s.) Why don't you slap a turbo on that Cobalt of yours and let the rest of us have the Camaro we all want.A little rough wouldn't you say, I guess my 1SC wasn't a Camaro then? If you want all the bells and whistles Chevy already makes a car for you and it isn't the Camaro, hint, Corvette. Camaro hasn't ever been the cutting edge technology vehicle you are describing.

When the Camaro debuted in '66 it had one of the longest option lists offered on any car. What about the RS package that was all looks and features and no performance upgrades?
What the Camaro has always been is a car that covered a lot of bases. It could be ordered as a cheap v6 grocery getter, pure race car, or even a high optioned cruiser. But all those had cool looks and good performance in common.
If you want a pure performance Camaro, maybe there will be a 1LE option in a couple years.

I would rather have a stripper model with huge power and a good drive train.....


To me the camaro is all performance. If I wanted the bells and whistles I would drive something more comfortable and bigger(a truck).

Adding all this extra stuff is a real turndown for someone like me...I just want a performer, i'm sure it will perform o.k. but how much of this extra stuff is going to break, or cause other unwanted headaches? Just adds things that are not needed to me.......so I won't get one, I'm not the only one that feels that way.

A little rough wouldn't you say, I guess my 1SC wasn't a Camaro then? If you want all the bells and whistles Chevy already makes a car for you and it isn't the Camaro, hint, Corvette. Camaro hasn't ever been the cutting edge technology vehicle you are describing.

I disagree with you here. There are a few exceptions to Camaro's being offered as a stripper, but most were not offered this way and the demand for this type of vehicle is very slim. It would be very smart for GM to add these as options and make more money off the car and appeal to more people. Nice options have always been available. Like my 12 disc CD changer and traction control in my 02.

Corvette is cutting edge is every aspect of that car, but it is not a for the masses car. The Camaro is.

If you want a pure performance Camaro, maybe there will be a 1LE option in a couple years.

This is what i'm looking for........But how stripped will it be? My 97 1LE has AC and a CD changer:think:

I disagree with you here. There are a few exceptions to Camaro's being offered as a stripper, but most were not offered this way and the demand for this type of vehicle is very slim. It would be very smart for GM to add these as options and make more money off the car and appeal to more people. Nice options have always been available. Like my 12 disc CD changer and traction control in my 02.

Corvette is cutting edge is every aspect of that car, but it is not a for the masses car. The Camaro is.I don't think too many people consider a 12 disc changer and TC that great of an option. Hell even cheap cars had multiple cd indash receivers (that you don't have to get out of the car to change) and traction control as options.

Price was not the issue. You could get a stripped down 2002 Z28 or Formula in the low 20s. It wasnt performance either. Heck, the early 4th gen V6s were as fast as the Mustang GTs back in those days.

It was the low seating position, long hood, heavy doors, etc.... items that especially were driving away women buyers... that really hurt the sales numbers.

Price was not the issue. You could get a stripped down 2002 Z28 or Formula in the low 20s. It wasnt performance either. Heck, the early 4th gen V6s were as fast as the Mustang GTs back in those days.

It was the low seating position, long hood, heavy doors, etc.... items that especially were driving away women buyers... that really hurt the sales numbers.That and basically not changing the car for 10 years. Hopefully GM has learned the market won't tolerate sticker and badge touch ups anymore, you have to really update the vehicle every 4-5 years now. And no more humps in the passenger side footwell which basically showed how much chevy really cared to invest when it wasn't even needed anymore with the LS1.

That and basically not changing the car for 10 years. Hopefully GM has learned the market won't tolerate sticker and badge touch ups anymore, you have to really update the vehicle every 4-5 years now. And no more humps in the passenger side footwell which basically showed how much chevy really cared to invest when it wasn't even needed anymore with the LS1.

thats a long story.... FCar was initially "killed" around 1995. Redoing the floor pan would have meant recertifing the platform in crash tests and GM was not going to spend that kind of money on a car destined to be decomissioned.

Most of the newer content was all trickle down from Corvette. The traction control system came off the C4s, and obviously the drivetrain came from C5.

If it werent for SLP breathing some life into the car with the WS6 and SS packages, the hiatus would have started before 2000.

but safe to say, those issues have been addressed in the 5th gen.

I just hope we aren't looking at the 2019 Camaro!

I would rather have a stripper model with huge power and a good drive train.....


To me the camaro is all performance. If I wanted the bells and whistles I would drive something more comfortable and bigger(a truck).

Adding all this extra stuff is a real turndown for someone like me...I just want a performer, i'm sure it will perform o.k. but how much of this extra stuff is going to break, or cause other unwanted headaches? Just adds things that are not needed to me.......so I won't get one, I'm not the only one that feels that way.

you may not be the only one that feels that way.. but i'm sure that group is a very very very very very very small percentage of the potential market for this car..

most people, myself included.. do want all the "bells and whistles" in their camaro..

It sounds like you want a cheap performance car without all the bells and whistles. That my friend is not a Camaro, nor has it ever been that. (Except for maybe the original Z/28s.) Why don't you slap a turbo on that Cobalt of yours and let the rest of us have the Camaro we all want.

dude what are you 5 you personally attack people because you dont like what they say and dont really have a good comment to make so a personal attack is all you can come up with.


i never said they should make a striper model and yes im saying they should make it more affordable. Just selling to the camaro enthuses that are out there now obviously isnt enough or they would have been a new camaro in 2003. They need to draw in a new younger crowd of enthusiasts. Like mdacton said you want a luxury oriented car then go buy something along those lines get sts or a cts v or a corvette or multitude of other cars. I dont understand why a camaro has to be a luxury orientated when there are other cars that fill that roll.

GRN -- you ask good questions and make some interesting points. (and I must admit I haven't had time to read this entire thread.......)

That said -- it's important to take a couple of things in context.

First -- price. In order to understand pricing, you really need to go back to late 1966 -- and index that price to 2009 dollars. The 1967 Camaro started at $2466...which seems incredibly cheap today -- however, that was not an inexpensive car in 1967.

Second -- the automotive world was completely different back then. No emissions rules to speak of - there were only a few safety standards -- and they'd been legislated in 1965-1966-- There was no foreign competition to speak of -- other than the VW Beetle. Oh yes -- and we hadn't a clue as to what 'consumerism' meant -- and attorneys behaved themselves back then. (no multi-million dollar lawsuits for missing suit pants or spilled coffee....)

Third -- the insurance companies were just starting to catch on to increased premiums for muscular V8 engines. (I assure you that most Honda Civics have policies written for a stock 4-cylinder engine -- the agent hasn't a clue that the car has been significantly modified)

....going back to point 2 for a moment -- the consumer has a dizzying 270+ nameplates to choose from -- and it's estimated that there will be over 300 by 2010............that's a staggering figure. So for someone to assume we can sustain 200,000 Camaros a year -- perhaps even only 140,000 a year -- is quite unlikely. (there simply aren't enough people who want a coupe -- tastes have moved to sedans, crossovers, and vehicles with more utility. Finally -- we have to make money on the Camaro -- we didn't for a number of years in the 4th gen.........

We -- more than anyone -- know that the new Camaro has to be affordable if we hope to sell it to a wider audience. We aim to do that....however, one could do all the polls possible asking people what they'd pay for a base car -- and the results may have nothing to do with reality. (Don't jump to conclusions with that last line.....) A Base car may not be base to some people.

Suffice it to say that we continue to work on the Camaro -- and we continue to talk to both our "Camaro Disciples" -- our Camaro Enthusiasts -- Mustang owners -- and many others.......

We hope when the car hits showrooms that it meets the needs of many many more people than before.

GRN -- you ask good questions and make some interesting points. (and I must admit I haven't had time to read this entire thread.......)

That said -- it's important to take a couple of things in context.

First -- price. In order to understand pricing, you really need to go back to late 1966 -- and index that price to 2009 dollars. The 1967 Camaro started at $2466...which seems incredibly cheap today -- however, that was not an inexpensive car in 1967.

Second -- the automotive world was completely different back then. No emissions rules to speak of - there were only a few safety standards -- and they'd been legislated in 1965-1966-- There was no foreign competition to speak of -- other than the VW Beetle. Oh yes -- and we hadn't a clue as to what 'consumerism' meant -- and attorneys behaved themselves back then. (no multi-million dollar lawsuits for missing suit pants or spilled coffee....)

Third -- the insurance companies were just starting to catch on to increased premiums for muscular V8 engines. (I assure you that most Honda Civics have policies written for a stock 4-cylinder engine -- the agent hasn't a clue that the car has been significantly modified)

....going back to point 2 for a moment -- the consumer has a dizzying 270+ nameplates to choose from -- and it's estimated that there will be over 300 by 2010............that's a staggering figure. So for someone to assume we can sustain 200,000 Camaros a year -- perhaps even only 140,000 a year -- is quite unlikely. (there simply aren't enough people who want a coupe -- tastes have moved to sedans, crossovers, and vehicles with more utility. Finally -- we have to make money on the Camaro -- we didn't for a number of years in the 4th gen.........

We -- more than anyone -- know that the new Camaro has to be affordable if we hope to sell it to a wider audience. We aim to do that....however, one could do all the polls possible asking people what they'd pay for a base car -- and the results may have nothing to do with reality. (Don't jump to conclusions with that last line.....) A Base car may not be base to some people.

Suffice it to say that we continue to work on the Camaro -- and we continue to talk to both our "Camaro Disciples" -- our Camaro Enthusiasts -- Mustang owners -- and many others.......

We hope when the car hits showrooms that it meets the needs of many many more people than before.


*sigh*

Understood.

But I still wish for that line-item list of options, and the veto power that would come with it.

Born just a bit too late for that,I guess.

I hate this "least common denominator" market we all live with.:rolleyes:

*sigh*

Understood.

But I still wish for that line-item list of options, and the veto power that would come with it.

Born just a bit too late for that,I guess.

I hate this "least common denominator" market we all live with.:rolleyes:


Note of interest: I was having dinner with a GM Exec. who has since retired a while back -- and we were talking about the DeLorean era --

.......according to him, at one point, Chevrolet was losing money -- and the biggest reason? No build protocol. COPOS and endless option lists were horribly expensive.

As late as 1973, we did not have option packaging -- rather, each car line had a carbon order form -- and you literally 'checked off boxes' as you ordered a car---

Tidbit: in the 1997 model year, does anyone want to guess the number of build combinations available on a Camaro?

(no peeking.....)

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

over 15.5 MILLION BUILD COMBINATIONS.........

..........and we built 60,202 cars.


That's why we have to carefully look at the option packages.

We need to give you good choices --

.......but on the other hand, we have to try to prevent the following from happening:

Dealer orders Camaro.

Dealer orders Camaro with some desirable options, but not a few others.

Camaro dealer orders is too loaded for some, and not enough for others.

Dealer has car on the lot for a year before it sells.

Dealer never wants to order another as his carrying costs far outstripped the profit he made on the car.

Customer bought the Camaro -- customer is unhappy that it didn't have exactly what he/she wanted....further, paint condition isn't pristine 'cuz it's a year old.

Both Dealer and Customer not happy.

Translated to: diminished brand in the eyes of both.

Note of interest: I was having dinner with a GM Exec. who has since retired a while back -- and we were talking about the DeLorean era --

.......according to him, at one point, Chevrolet was losing money -- and the biggest reason? No build protocol. COPOS and endless option lists were horribly expensive.

As late as 1973, we did not have option packaging -- rather, each car line had a carbon order form -- and you literally 'checked off boxes' as you ordered a car---

Tidbit: in the 1997 model year, does anyone want to guess the number of build combinations available on a Camaro?

(no peeking.....)

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

over 15.5 MILLION BUILD COMBINATIONS.........

..........and we built 60,202 cars.


That's why we have to carefully look at the option packages.

We need to give you good choices --

.......but on the other hand, we have to try to prevent the following from happening:

Dealer orders Camaro.

Dealer orders Camaro with some desirable options, but not a few others.

Camaro dealer orders is too loaded for some, and not enough for others.

Dealer has car on the lot for a year before it sells.

Dealer never wants to order another as his carrying costs far outstripped the profit he made on the car.

Customer bought the Camaro -- customer is unhappy that it didn't have exactly what he/she wanted....further, paint condition isn't pristine 'cuz it's a year old.

Both Dealer and Customer not happy.

Translated to: diminished brand in the eyes of both.


Totally agree with you a dealership has a cobalt SS 2.4 they have had it a year now and it didnt have a 6 disc changer and ONStar that i wanted. They lost a sale because they wouldn't come down $300.00. My mom and Dad works for GM and gets the GM Supplier Discount which AKA blows.

The GM Supplier discount is a joke we ask them why they couldnt come down $300.00 we told them we had the GM Supplier Discount they said they was givings us a better deal and the discount is worth $50.00. So basically if you dont have GMS discount you dont have nothing, which i thought GMS is GM Supplier but its not what a joke.

Its not chevrolets products thats not selling, its the dealerships that is screwing it up they are to money hungry. Just like the Z06 rmy had one with 76k on the sticker and they was asking 97k for it.

$2466 in 1966 would be $15,200 today ... that'd be a nice base price for new Camaro :D

http://www.westegg.com/inflation/

I suspect the new ones wil have just a taaaad more content compared to the first gen rattle cans :)

Dealer orders Camaro.

Dealer orders Camaro with some desirable options, but not a few others.

Camaro dealer orders is too loaded for some, and not enough for others.

Dealer tries to put the wood to everybody who even get to close to the car.

Dealer cant sell car cause he pisses everyone off who even considers buying it.

Dealer blames car


Seen it happen time and again.

$2466 in 1966 would be $15,200 today ... that'd be a nice base price for new Camaro :D

http://www.westegg.com/inflation/


OK....now add safety and emissions equipment -- 5mph bumpers -- more insulation and better build materials -- better drivetrains (yes -- you heard me) -- and that number goes WAY past $20K.

That does not include standard equipment that was once optional.

Totally agree with you a dealership has a cobalt SS 2.4 they have had it a year now and it didnt have a 6 disc changer and ONStar that i wanted. They lost a sale because they wouldn't come down $300.00. My mom and Dad works for GM and gets the GM Supplier Discount which AKA blows.

The GM Supplier discount is a joke we ask them why they couldnt come down $300.00 we told them we had the GM Supplier Discount they said they was givings us a better deal and the discount is worth $50.00. So basically if you dont have GMS discount you dont have nothing, which i thought GMS is GM Supplier but its not what a joke.


actually, it's not a joke. It's a substantial discount. And the dealer was wrong on the $50 dollar discount -- that or you misunderstood him.

Question: what do you think a dealer should be able to make in terms of profit on a Cobalt?

OK....now add safety and emissions equipment -- 5mph bumpers -- more insulation and better build materials -- better drivetrains (yes -- you heard me) -- and that number goes WAY past $20K.

That does not include standard equipment that was once optional.And the add on to cover UAW retirement helathcare costs, probably around 1k per car added to the price. After thinking about it I realized it really doesn't matter what it costs because I'll end up paying it for a top of the line Z28. I even hinted to the wife I might get a Corvette instead (joking)since the wait is so long and she said "you're not a Corvette guy, you're a Camaro guy"! I guess that about sums it up!:D

OK....now add safety and emissions equipment -- 5mph bumpers -- more insulation and better build materials -- better drivetrains (yes -- you heard me) -- and that number goes WAY past $20K.

That does not include standard equipment that was once optional.

yes you are getting much more for your money then you did back in the 66. but at the same time if 2466 is equal to 15,200 today and the new camaro cost around 28,000 for a base model v8 your talking about a 12,800 dollar increase :eek: . i got the estimate of about 28k from stars1010 on his build your camaro thread. http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=490016.

I will wait till it comes out and hit show room floors. I just think its getting crazy with the list of things that people want to see in this car that all. Im surprise no one has asked for a coffee maker in the glove box or a refrigerated cup holder for there soda.

i really want a new camaro but if im looking at around 28-30k for a base model v8 im proably gonna have to pass on one as it looks right now with my current finances.

This is an interesting thread!

I don’t envy the design/concept/sales&marketing guys at GM who have to make the decisions about what will and won’t be on a new car and/or what the price points will be…predicting what the public really want’s and will really pay for and what they’ll see as true “value” is perhaps one of the most complicated aspects of being an automotive manufacturer today.

I hear that a lot of enthusiasts want “performance” and not so much creature comforts but while they say that, they concurrently forget that most of the “base” comforts we all take for grated today either didn’t exist or were only offered on top of the line luxury vehicles in the 60’s and early 70’s…I’m not sure how many of the enthusiasts really want to do without much of those “extras” for the sake of a few tenths of a second ET.

Also (and not to state the obvious, but) while the enthusiast community is important, it will not be what does or does not keep the Camaro around long-term….it if doesn’t have a broad appeal compared to other coupes/sport coups it won’t last.

yea ford needs some competition and the heavy GTO isnt cutting it

This is an interesting thread!

I don’t envy the design/concept/sales&marketing guys at GM who have to make the decisions about what will and won’t be on a new car and/or what the price points will be…predicting what the public really want’s and will really pay for and what they’ll see as true “value” is perhaps one of the most complicated aspects of being an automotive manufacturer today.

I hear that a lot of enthusiasts want “performance” and not so much creature comforts but while they say that, they concurrently forget that most of the “base” comforts we all take for grated today either didn’t exist or were only offered on top of the line luxury vehicles in the 60’s and early 70’s…I’m not sure how many of the enthusiasts really want to do without much of those “extras” for the sake of a few tenths of a second ET.

Also (and not to state the obvious, but) while the enthusiast community is important, it will not be what does or does not keep the Camaro around long-term….it if doesn’t have a broad appeal compared to other coupes/sport coups it won’t last.

well put

This is an interesting thread!

I don’t envy the design/concept/sales&marketing guys at GM who have to make the decisions about what will and won’t be on a new car and/or what the price points will be…predicting what the public really want’s and will really pay for and what they’ll see as true “value” is perhaps one of the most complicated aspects of being an automotive manufacturer today.

I hear that a lot of enthusiasts want “performance” and not so much creature comforts but while they say that, they concurrently forget that most of the “base” comforts we all take for grated today either didn’t exist or were only offered on top of the line luxury vehicles in the 60’s and early 70’s…I’m not sure how many of the enthusiasts really want to do without much of those “extras” for the sake of a few tenths of a second ET.

Also (and not to state the obvious, but) while the enthusiast community is important, it will not be what does or does not keep the Camaro around long-term….it if doesn’t have a broad appeal compared to other coupes/sport coups it won’t last.

pretty much stuff i said earlier.

Id also like to state this and this from talking to people. Alot of cars have an image when i talk to people they say oh thats a poor mans vett and then i sorta question them and its more a perception of cheap performance comparatively with other cars in the market. The camaro has an image as a cheap performance car whether your basing that on comparatively to current cars or from older camaros. it doesn't really matter who you talk to.

Perception goes a long way and that is clearly evident with the American auto makers struggling now to sell car because people think they are complete garbage. So that means When people go to buy a new car if there in the market for a luxury orientated car there going to probably pass on the new camaro it doesn't matter how refined the interior is with head and a/c seats and hud, nav, hid.... The only other factor that would make people look at a car they normally wounldnt is price and thats because people are cheap.

The GM Supplier discount is a joke

No it's not a joke. If you did your homework first, you'd have been more informed.

The supplier price is printed on the invoice from GM. The dealership is required to show you that. There is no negotiating the price if you are using the supplier program. Dealership participation in supplier pricing is voluntary. They are NOT required to offer supplier pricing on any vehicle. All of this is spelled out on the GM Supplier Discount website.

2007 Chevy Cobalt 1SS base pkg
MSRP - $18,900
GM Supplier - $18,276.34 (not including any available incentives)
Invoice - $17,894 (from kbb.com)

When you are buying an entry level type vehicle, the MSRP markup over invoice just inst as much as you'd think.