268hp V6 Corolla?

This engine in the Camry gets 22/31 using the old EPA system. Road tests from magazines confirm its relative efficiency.

What do people think about a Volkswagen R32 competitor from Toyota?

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/862D9E1EFD475B6DCA2572E4000AB87E

So much for the Corolla being a small fuel efficient car. Should be pretty quick though, torque steer will be crazy.

The problem is the latest Corolla has put on between 110-350 lbs. So a (heavier) V6 is really a necessity if it's to develop good performance.

NASTY!

The R32 on the other hand is a very nice looking hatch with an awesome interior and ergonomics.

Corolla is moving up in size. It will no longer be Toyota's small car offering. Yaris will be. I personally think this is a bit of a mistake since Corolla has always been associated with small and economical. It's especially a mistake since Yaris is not an impressive seller AFAIK.

I've noticed that even the current corolla is as big as/similar in size to the 80's/early 90's camry.

My question is, what the hell is Toyota doing? They keep adding bigger and bigger vehicles to their lineup. The 08 Sequoia will be "tundra size" which means most likely bigger than both the tahoe and explorer. Tacoma, 4 runner, and rav4 have all been considerably upsized. They also keep adding vehicles to their lineup... Scion... there's 3 of them now... Yaris... the lexus brand is expanding.......

Is Toyota falling into the same track that began Detroit's downfall so many years ago? One can only hope :D

I've noticed that even the current corolla is as big as/similar in size to the 80's/early 90's camry.

My question is, what the hell is Toyota doing? They keep adding bigger and bigger vehicles to their lineup. The 08 Sequoia will be "tundra size" which means most likely bigger than both the tahoe and explorer. Tacoma, 4 runner, and rav4 have all been considerably upsized. They also keep adding vehicles to their lineup... Scion... there's 3 of them now... Yaris... the lexus brand is expanding.......

Is Toyota falling into the same track that began Detroit's downfall so many years ago? One can only hope :D

No no no. Don't you read the news? Toyota only makes the Prius and super fuel efficient cars. What are this Tundra and Sequoia you speak of? It's only the Americans that make those big, nasty, dirty inneficient trucks. Toyota only makes magical fuel efficient cars sprinkled with fairy dust. Their exhaust plants trees as they drive by.

No no no. Don't you read the news? Toyota only makes the Prius and super fuel efficient cars. What are this Tundra and Sequoia you speak of? It's only the Americans that make those big, nasty, dirty inneficient trucks. Toyota only makes magical fuel efficient cars sprinkled with fairy dust. Their exhaust plants trees as they drive by.

Quoted for truth.

No no no. Don't you read the news? Toyota only makes the Prius and super fuel efficient cars. What are this Tundra and Sequoia you speak of? It's only the Americans that make those big, nasty, dirty inneficient trucks. Toyota only makes magical fuel efficient cars sprinkled with fairy dust. Their exhaust plants trees as they drive by.

It's all about marketing. Sooner or later you would think that Hollyweird and the general public would realize that selling a few thousand Priuses a year does not reflect Toyota's "commitment" to the environment as a whole. Not when you've got EPA rated mid-teen Tundras and Sequoias pounding the streets, at far greater numbers.

But that is the corporate marketing impact of a car like the Prius. Which is why GM needs the Volt in production. ASAP.

No no no. Don't you read the news? Toyota only makes the Prius and super fuel efficient cars. What are this Tundra and Sequoia you speak of? It's only the Americans that make those big, nasty, dirty inneficient trucks. Toyota only makes magical fuel efficient cars sprinkled with fairy dust. Their exhaust plants trees as they drive by.

:eek: :lol: :bow:

Thanks for the laugh :D

2008 Scion XB is rated at 22/28 (24 combined) vs. 26/31 (28 combined) for the old model when both use the new 2008 testing standards. But no one will say that Toyota are "backsliding" by making a new model LESS fuel efficient than the current one.

Tahoe actually gets better mileage than Sequoia - 14/19/16 vs 13/17/15.

I just want to see vehicles get compared on equal footing without any sleight of hand. I agree, we need Volt ASAP. And as I've said on several other threads, I want a diesel Astra!

That's because the new XB is, (once again,) larger, heavier, and more powerful than the previous gen XB.

Dee Dee Dee Toyota :lol:

My mother-in-law just bought a new Camry. I was shocked at its size. I haven't looked at the actual measurements, but I swear that thing is almost as big as a Charger. You could put an old Camry in its trunk.

If I'm going to buy a small car I either want it to be an amazing performer, or have amazing mileage, or both.

I'm suspecting that car is going to have 'ok' mileage at best, accelerate pretty damn quickly, and handle like a washing machine.

Not a very interesting combo to me.

I do love the interior of the new Corolla though - at least based on the initial pics I saw. And they supposedly have some sort of new relatively low-power gasoline motor that will go into it that gets some pretty incredible mileage for a non-hybrid vehicle, even of that size.

It's not just Toyota; pretty much every time any manufacturer redesigns a car, it's bigger than its predecessor. Think Civic and Accord (which grew so much they had to slot in a new entry-level model to cater to those wanting something the size the Civic used to be). BMW 3-series have grown substantially over the years. GM's also guilty with most of their cars, e.g. CTS, j-bodies/delta, epsilon, 355s, 360s, 900s, and so on.

I'm not sure why this is. The only reason I can think of is cars naturally have to be redesigned every 4-8 years. But if they keep them exactly the same size it gives them nothing to brag about to their customers. I can't see them saying "come see the brand new Civic, it's exactly the same size as before except heavier and less fuel-efficient". Making cars bigger allows them to say they're bigger than their competitor, and also gives them an excuse why they keep getting porkier.

Well also presumably every time they get bigger, they get more expensive and more profitable. It's an easy way to upsell loyal customers into a higher model.

Yea Totota is getting some serious HP out of those v-6's.

I test drove a RAV 4 V-6. It had 276HP and was 0-60 in 7.1 1/4 in 15.2 with a 5 speed automatic.
My wife might buy it cause it gets 27 mpg also.

It's not just Toyota; pretty much every time any manufacturer redesigns a car, it's bigger than its predecessor. Think Civic and Accord (which grew so much they had to slot in a new entry-level model to cater to those wanting something the size the Civic used to be). BMW 3-series have grown substantially over the years. GM's also guilty with most of their cars, e.g. CTS, j-bodies/delta, epsilon, 355s, 360s, 900s, and so on.

I'm not sure why this is. The only reason I can think of is cars naturally have to be redesigned every 4-8 years. But if they keep them exactly the same size it gives them nothing to brag about to their customers. I can't see them saying "come see the brand new Civic, it's exactly the same size as before except heavier and less fuel-efficient". Making cars bigger allows them to say they're bigger than their competitor, and also gives them an excuse why they keep getting porkier.

This goes back nearly to the beginning of automobile styling. Harley Earl's motto was "longer, lower, wider" when redesigning a car.

However, I'd say the Japanese are more guilty of this right now than the domestics are - they just have smaller models already in production elsewhere to bring in to fill the void.

Delta is not significantly bigger than the J-Bodies. Cobalt is less than an inch longer than a Cavalier and has a shorter wheelbase.

Understand.
While some of you try to discredit Toyota for making a car with horrible gas mileage (before you even know the numbers), somewhere else 10x as many people are giving them credit for making (even though, according to what we know, it isn't real car) a fast car.

Will it sell is what you need to ask.
What it will do for the brand is what you need to ask.
You need to look at the XRS.
I'll save you some time, they stopped making it.
Understand though...
The S-runner didn't sell. This was because it wasn't marketed (neither was the XRS).
The X-runner is the nicest Toyota truck, and the nicest modern truck available. It was marketed and this helped it sell.

Understand.
While some of you try to discredit Toyota for making a car with horrible gas mileage (before you even know the numbers), somewhere else 10x as many people are giving them credit for making (even though, according to what we know, it isn't real car) a fast car.

Will it sell is what you need to ask.
What it will do for the brand is what you need to ask.
You need to look at the XRS.
I'll save you some time, they stopped making it.
Understand though...
The S-runner didn't sell. This was because it wasn't marketed (neither was the XRS).
The X-runner is the nicest Toyota truck, and the nicest modern truck available. It was marketed and this helped it sell.

I'm not trying to discredit Toyota for making a car with horrible gas mileage. I don't think that it will be that horrible. If they did make this car it could probably get low to mid 20s combined. Camry and RAV-4 both get good mileage with the V6.

I think the point everyone is trying to make is that Toyota is making their cars bigger and less fuel efficient on one hand while playing the "green" card with the other and the public only sees the green card.

I think if they made this car it would definitely sell. The XRS had the 2ZZGE, which is a really peaky engine that was available with a 6 speed manual only. Toyota has discontinued use of that engine in ANY car in North America. I believe there's a much larger market here for a torquey V6 and an availabe auto. People seem to identify Honda with the high RPM screamers more than Toyota in the U.S. market for some reason. Must be the VTEC, yo. More name recognition than VVT-i, I guess.

I'm not trying to discredit Toyota for making a car with horrible gas mileage. I don't think that it will be that horrible. If they did make this car it could probably get low to mid 20s combined. Camry and RAV-4 both get good mileage with the V6.

I think the point everyone is trying to make is that Toyota is making their cars bigger and less fuel efficient on one hand while playing the "green" card with the other and the public only sees the green card.

I think if they made this car it would definitely sell. The XRS had the 2ZZGE, which is a really peaky engine that was available with a 6 speed manual only. Toyota has discontinued use of that engine in ANY car in North America. I believe there's a much larger market here for a torquey V6 and an availabe auto. People seem to identify Honda with the high RPM screamers more than Toyota in the U.S. market for some reason. Must be the VTEC, yo. More name recognition than VVT-i, I guess.

Hondas have serious aftermarket support, and when modded right, they scream. Toyota VVT's... meh..

Hondas have serious aftermarket support, and when modded right, they scream. Toyota VVT's... meh..

That reinforces the point I was trying to make - Toyota doesn't really have a reputation as an enthusiast brand the way Honda does.

I think the point everyone is trying to make is that Toyota is making their cars bigger and less fuel efficient on one hand while playing the "green" card with the other and the public only sees the green card.


How are they playing the green card? I haven't noticed anything green in any of their commercials...However, I got an ethanol shirt from GM, can't get much greener than that. I really don't see either of them playing a green card though. :shrug:

Corolla is moving up in size. It will no longer be Toyota's small car offering. Yaris will be. I personally think this is a bit of a mistake since Corolla has always been associated with small and economical. It's especially a mistake since Yaris is not an impressive seller AFAIK.

Original Toyota buyers are making more money...They're the same people who won't shut up about how their 80's Corolla would run forever without a single problem. Toyota's capitalizing on the nameplate to generate more profit.

Originally Posted by Eric77TA
No no no. Don't you read the news? Toyota only makes the Prius and super fuel efficient cars. What are this Tundra and Sequoia you speak of? It's only the Americans that make those big, nasty, dirty inneficient trucks. Toyota only makes magical fuel efficient cars sprinkled with fairy dust. Their exhaust plants trees as they drive by.

Quoted for truth.


I will QFTx2

I think it's ridiculous. The people who buy a Tundra from Toyota couldn't care less about the people buying a Prius, and visa-versa.

Something else to remember with that XRS was that the M6 in the car was not geared correctly. If you shifted at redline, the car would go to the next gear below the cam switch rpm making it very slow at first and hurting the performance a lot.

And Toyota not known for making performance cars? Short term memories I guess? Supras, anyone?

Nevertheless, 268 HP out of a Corolla is pretty cool, but I think it would be a better idea to put that in the Scion TC. But that car is going to scream to the tune of probably close to a stock Mustang GT trap speed.

And Toyota not known for making performance cars? Short term memories I guess? Supras, anyone?

You mean the dead one? And the RWD Celica (dead also) and the MR2 (dead twice now). Are you seeing a trend?

Toyota making more "American" cars, and gm making more "japanize" type cars. hmmmmm :confused:

As for being an R32 competion, I drove the first R32 in the charlotte area, and I was NOT impressed. The interior was not much different that a regular GTI, the slightly larger offset inline 6 didn't really have that much more power. The all wheel drive was cool, but I think a WRX or an EVO would crush it in a rally event. The only real plus in book is that it is made in Germany rather than Brazil like the Jetta, Beetle, and regular GTI's (The Brazilian VW's have far lower quality). Now the REAL R32's that are in Europe I'd probably give my left nut for.

You mean the dead one? And the RWD Celica (dead also) and the MR2 (dead twice now). Are you seeing a trend?

...

FWIW, the R32 has a V6, not an inline six :)

The one thing I love about the R32 was the sound it makes. Very throaty IMHO.

You mean the dead one? And the RWD Celica (dead also) and the MR2 (dead twice now). Are you seeing a trend?

...


Toyota making more "American" cars, and gm making more "japanize" type cars. hmmmmm

As for being an R32 competion, I drove the first R32 in the charlotte area, and I was NOT impressed. The interior was not much different that a regular GTI, the slightly larger offset inline 6 didn't really have that much more power. The all wheel drive was cool, but I think a WRX or an EVO would crush it in a rally event. The only real plus in book is that it is made in Germany rather than Brazil like the Jetta, Beetle, and regular GTI's (The Brazilian VW's have far lower quality). Now the REAL R32's that are in Europe I'd probably give my left nut for.


FWIW, the R32 has a V6, not an inline six :)

The one thing I love about the R32 was the sound it makes. Very throaty IMHO.

...

FWIW, the R32 has a V6, not an inline six :)

The one thing I love about the R32 was the sound it makes. Very throaty IMHO.

You quoteded the wrong person.

...



FWIW, the R32 has a V6, not an inline six :)

The one thing I love about the R32 was the sound it makes. Very throaty IMHO.

VR6 == Vee Reihe 6, I think, which would be a Vee Inline 6. So it's an inline 6 and a V6 :D :D

Seriously, it's something like 10.6 degrees between cylinders. There's a single head. It's a weird layout!