If I remember correctly on the article..it said EV1 loyal owners as like CAMARO owners were abandonded by GM..WTF?? a low produced electric vehicle compared to a CAMARO??? yo userious..and then they go onto pretty much say there is no market for these cars..meaning the EV1 and the Camaro???

UMMM GM..WAKE UP NOW!!!!! I myself love my Camaro and love playing around with it..BUT AS OF NOW there is no "replacement" when I want to get another one..YOU AND YOUR MARKETING STRADEGY IS WAY OFF..look at the competitors cars comming out that are performance oriented???.. 350Z, RX8, Supra< and MUSTANG??? my god you got blinders on??
someones got to change the beancounters hands cus they are letting too much slip by..this is from what a loyal GM customer..but hey..the Mustang never looked better..and I know Im not the only one saying that...hate to say it.....your loosing ground and patience with your performance fans...

 

Well...the GTO is close to where the Camaro left off...

 

I'm not sure what article to which you are referring, but it sounds like to me that they are comparing what happened to Camaro owners and EV1 owners, not the cars. Sometimes you read stuff about the Camaro and GM and you just automatically get pissed off, or I know I do anyway.

 

The Camaro and GTO just aren't the same though.

 

we need a Camaro not a GTO,Monaro with a changed name

 

Well what's wrong with a Monaro???

You guys need to relax and give GM time. Yes, it is riduculous that GM has altogether abandoned the affordable performance market. But as others have stated, GM is now moving in the right direction with renewed emphasis on the car side of things, including performance. The fruits of these changes are not going to appear overnight. That we even have a GTO on the way is an indication that things are on the upswing. Have patience....

But if you want to buy a Mustang, who's stopping ya?

 

Why buy a M*****g anyway?? Just keep your F-Body or get another.

 

Just as I used to preach months (years?) back on this board, the new performance car market is quasi-sports car. Keep it somewhere in between 3rd gen and 350Z and it'll be a huge hit, should it come back.

 

2002 Z28 = $25,000
2004 GTO = $35,000

 

quote by jrp4uc: Amen to that! This business is not akin to putting out a new sandwich at McDonalds. It takes some time to create and validate a design and business case, line up and tool up manufacturing and suppliers. But GM knows they can win back market share with renewed performance emphasis... just a matter of time and having the right products and producing them right.

WERM - I don't see anywhere where someone claimed the Z28 and GTO are somehow equivalent. Take a look at the GTO... you're getting a lot more car for that price difference (BTW not as large a difference as you quoted, since the GTO's will come loaded and a loaded Camaro can easily exceed $30k sticker). With the GTO, you're getting comfy rear legroom, IRS, 350-360 hp (rumored), side airbags, rear bucket seats, and so on. Performance wise, the GTO no doubt will pick up where the Z28 left off, giving GM performance fans a brand new tool for smacking down Mustangs!

 

IMHO, the fact that a loaded camaro cost over 30K has a lot to do with why they don't make Camaros anymore. Sure, GTO is a lot of car for the money (Like the Z06). It will however, be produced in limited numbers and at a price that many can't afford. You COULD buy a $25,000 Z28. The same cannot be said about GTO. It doesn't make sense to say "it picked up where camaro left off" any more for GTO than it would for Corvette.

 

"IMHO, the fact that a loaded camaro cost over 30K has a lot to do with why they don't make Camaros anymore. Sure, GTO is a lot of car for the money (Like the Z06). It will however, be produced in limited numbers and at a price that many can't afford. You COULD buy a $25,000 Z28. The same cannot be said about GTO. It doesn't make sense to say "it picked up where camaro left off" any more for GTO than it would for Corvette."

It appears you're still missing the point... it's not a claim that the new GTO is some kind of "Z28 clone" - only that it will fulfill many of the same purposes the Z28 did. Both are value-oriented performance coupes. Both have a simple, reliable, fuel-sipping, tire-ripping pushrod V8. Both have a long and proud racing heritage on tracks and the street. Are they the exact same price? Obviously not... and they're not the same design either.

As for the Camaro pricing and its demise... LS1 Camaros are/were a great deal anywhere from $25k to $30k or more. But price alone is not such a major driver of demand for the cars. Their limitations in interior packaging. along with other "key attributes like buyer demographics and resulting insurance rates, were/are a factor.

 

Here's my perspective on a $25K Z/28 compared to a $35K GTO.

I'm sure that I will ruffle some feathers here...but hey, it's my opinion.

The reason the 4th gen Z/28 could be had for $25K was, that it really wasn't a real Z/28 at all. What it was, was a modern rendition of an "80s Mustang LX 5.0.

Short of the LS1, it's hard to point to even one component that could be described as neat or cool. No "special" suspension, no "special" wheels, no "special" brakes......no "special" anything.

Yes....just like the 5.0 LX, the 4th gen Z/28 was just a motor in a box. It would have made a great Nova SS....but not quite a Z/28.

What a waste.

(NOMEX SUIT ON!)

 

I beg to differ on the "time" it takes to make a new camaro..or any other performance car for GM..Lutz proved that with the Solstice...it can and should be done..look at D/C for there almost ready prototype production cars..that seam to be on the lots 2 years from now..
what were talking about here is about 5 years of wait..
5 years of imports picking away at what a real performance car is.

5 years of Mustang eating away at the "loyal" performance crowd

5 years of other manufactures comming out with PERFORMANCE cars!

5 years of looking other places cus GM says there is "NO VIABLE MARKET FOR THESE CARS"


5 years and you can kiss any market share GOODBYE..and thats the honest truth..any way you slice it cus GM has no economy sporty car..like a Mustang..


and the Z28 to GTO...lets make a comparison to that from Ford..
The new Thunderbird..more exclusive higher price, diffrent bying public..and all that gets you is a car that pretty much has the same performance level..ohh but its a convertible with retro stylin..
same with the GTO..you try and make a Z28 replacement..as a GTO..not going to cut it..better in ways that we didnt mind when the car was being made..

 

It had to be decontented so that GM/SLP could justify a $3500+ package that included many things the Z28 should have had anyway. Did it cost GM anymore to make the wheels better looking? The taller spoiler? the different suspension settings? hardly. The Ram-Air setup was the only thing that added real value, and that did not approach $3500 by a long shot. The Z28's of the 70's and 80's had unique wheels and styling. In the 90's they tried to push the cars upmarket, but it backfired. Not very many folks wanted a 30K+ camaro (but the dealers mostly stocked them, scaring away others who didn't know a 25K Z28 existed), and the regular Z28 was made so plain and homely that nobody wanted them either. It's not hard to see where GM went wrong with these cars.

Mustang, with similarly compromised ergonomics/layout, etc., buyer demographics and a less powerful engine sold significantly higher. SVT mustang production was limited enough to not dilute the GT models, prevent dealers from flooding lots with them and hence the average Mustang sold for far less than the average Camaro - even though both COULD be purchased for the same price. That and Ford actually wanted to sell Mustangs.