Should I or shouldn't I? (trade my 4th gen for a 2nd gen)

I've been thinking for a while now about trading my 94 Formula for something.................. different. I don't want to turn srenches on the 94. I jsut look under the hood and start to twitch just THINKING about turning wrenches in that cramped, confined engine bay. And the Opti ignition gives me the shakes just to think about with all the problems I've had (and finally solved). But the car now runs great, for a stock car. OK, so 3rd gear is trashed in the tranny and the clutch is on it's way out- I could fix that for a grand or so- IF I wanted to keep the car.

Then down the road from my house is a kid selling his 77 Firebird. It's no show car but it's solid, complete, relatively rust free and.........<drum roll, please>............. has an original stock 305 small block Chevy under the hood hooked to a TH 350 trans!! I could probably have it for a grand or so- about the cost of fixing the trans in my 94. Yes, they put Chevys in Firebirds even back then, in some cases. It's pretty well worn out, of course, but who cares? I could actually WORK on the car, unlike my 94. It would never be as nice or as tight but..............

I'm thinking 454 big block Chevy replacing the 305. Little tickle of nitrous, maybe............

Wadda ya think?

Why don't you do what I did, get the second gen and keep the fourth gen. I was going to sell the fourth gen but decided to keep it and get the second gen bird. It'll take me longer to mod the second gen, but hey, I got two firebirds, not one:cool:

By the way it's a 71 bird.

i agree, get both cuz more the marier =)

Have both. I did the same thing. I have the 94 camaro for a comfortable car that gets some gas milage and the 67 as the gas guzzler. You'll wish you had both when you get 8 or 9 miles a gallon with a 454.

Whatever you do, get the 2nd gen ;)
I wish I could find a car like that to start over with, because I wasted so much on this car, and things were done wrong so many times and things were very costly. $1000 for a car with a great body, ready for any combo you want? GO GO GO! :) :)

yes, do it.. but not a Firebird... get a 2nd Gen Camaro! 70-73..

I have both and I love them equally.

I really hate to say this, but I've been thinking about getting rid of my '79, in favor of my '93 Firebird. Why? Because I don't need a trailer or tow vehicle to get it back and forth to the track, it runs 13.80's all day long in almost stock condition, and it has all the creature comforts (like AC) that my '79 or my truck don't have. I had to do alot of modifications to my Camaro to get it into the 13's, like totally rebuilding the driveline with performance stuff, a hacked up exhaust, 3.73 gears with 26x9 M&H cheater slicks.

On the down side, my Firebird has a very fragile (read that POS) 7.5 10 bolt reared versus the 8.5 , beefed up 10 bolt that's already in the Camaro. TH-700R's are about twice as expensive to have reworked to performance specs, same goes for the Converter.

As for trading your 79 for a 93 I say no way. The motor in the 79 is much cheaper to mod than the one in the 93 first of all, second if you want the gas milage then you can just have a 700R4 built and put it in your 79. To get a 79 (if you are starting with a 350 already) into the 13's takes almost nothing. Hell getting it into the 12's is easy. You get a set of Vortec heads, Dart iron Eagles, or World Produces Sportsman II heads and you have some heads that flow just like the ones on the 93 and then you can go from there. You have a wider selction of cams you can use don't have to worry about "computer tuneing" or the weak ass rearend. Pluse the 79 is just an all around cooler car.

Now, Damon, I would say go ahead and buy the TA. You can keep the 94 bird as a daily driver/ gas milage/ to and from work car while you use the TA as your weekend warrior/ race car. That way when the fun car breaks you still have a way to work. A lesson that I had to learn the hard way many times...lol.

Originally posted by Racer 1283
I really hate to say this, but I've been thinking about getting rid of my '79, in favor of my '93 Firebird. Why? Because I don't need a trailer or tow vehicle to get it back and forth to the track, it runs 13.80's all day long in almost stock condition, and it has all the creature comforts (like AC) that my '79 or my truck don't have. I had to do alot of modifications to my Camaro to get it into the 13's, like totally rebuilding the driveline with performance stuff, a hacked up exhaust, 3.73 gears with 26x9 M&H cheater slicks.

i must dissagree with that, i have a 79 camaro Z/28 that took next to nothing to get a 13.2@102mph and a 1.88 60ft and the thing weighed in at 3850 lbs with me in it fully loaded! all the major mods i got are a set of ported, not polished 441 heads, crane hyd. cam and a performer rpm intake, and a holley dp 700cfm. thats it and 9:1 comp. ratio. and a 10" 3000 stall conv. th350. stock everything else except for some other minor and small mods to chassis and stuff with some 28.5x9 MT slicks. a 3.42 stock posi rearend (thats why the mph blew on the 1/4, the slicks are way too tall for that gear, lost 3 mph from swaping from the street tires, all the time was made up with the 60 ft at the beginning)

My problem is, I have too many toys. The Camaro is a pain in the butt trailering it to the track (open headers and a spooled rearend aren't cool on the street) and it needs a paint job... bad. My formula is a pain just to change spark plugs (took me 8 hours), not to mention any serious engine work. My '84 Chevy pickup is a POS (rusted and falling apart, not bad considering it has close to 300,000 miles on it without a rebuild), and I need to get rid of it. My '96 Polaris XCR snowmobile is finally running the way I want after spending a grand on it, and last (and not least) I have at least 2 Cedar trees I have to cut down before the next Ice Storm, or all the stuff I mentioned will be flatened!

Now that I think of it, why am I on the computer, I got too much stuff to do!

P.S. I was kinda in a bad mood when I wrote that last post but I'm MUCH better now.

...One more thing. Here's a list of stuff it took to get my '79 Z28 running 13.80's:

rebuilt 350 with the following:
stock rotating assembly
Crane "blueprint" series L79 Cam
"041" heads, decked to 58CC, comp ratio about 10 to 1
MSD 6AL
Edelbrock performer intake (RPM wasn't around back then)
Edelbrock 600 CFM Carb
Blackjack Headers, with "H" pipe

Rebuilt TH-350 with the following:
2800 stall converter
B&M Shift Kit
B&M Megashifter

8.5" 10 bolt rear with 3.73 gears

26x9 M&H Racemaster DOT slicks

The big problem with this combination was the carb. It was acting as a restrictor plate. Later on when I changed to the Gen 1 Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads, and I didn't see an improvement, I changed to the "Magic Q-Jet". The "Magic Q-Jet" was a 800 CFM Truck carb, rebuilt and mildly modified. I started running 13.40's immediately, and the best I got out of that combination was 13.13@ 104MPH

The Firebird is pure stock, except for:

K&N Fuel Injection Performance Kit (air tube)
Fan switch
B&M Transmission Governor Kit, Shifts tranny at 5200 RPM
Bypassed Coolant line going to Throttle Body

Best ET (so far) 13.71@ 101.07MPH

I had a 76 Nova a few years ago and to get it into the 13's I used a Performer intake, Crower cam (the specs we something like this, 220/216 @.050, I can not remember exataly what they were but that is close), Holley 750 Vacuum secondary carb, TH400 with 2200 converter, and 4:11 gears. Other than that it was a stock short block with stock 882 heads so it was still 8.0 compression. Here just recently we put a 350 in my wifes 82 Z28 and it had flat top pistons, stock 882 heads, summit 214/224 @.050 cam, Performer RPM intake, Holley 750, TH350 tranny with a 2200 converter and the stock 3:08 posi rearend and it ran 13 also. Granted, the LT1 car comes with heads that flow like World Products Sportsman II's which is what makes them shine. But you can imulate that and go much farther for alot less money with the old school car. I know you said that your 79 is a "trailor car" But it only runs high 11's. Why not put some exhaust back on it and drive it? I have driven several cars with minni spools on the street as daily drivers and never had a problem. Also you only have 3:73 gears so highway driveing shouldn't be a problem. My Nova had a minni spool and 4:11 gears and it was my daily driver. I even drove it to the track every weekend on the freeway which was about 50 miles each way. I even put a 3600 converter in it later on and still drove it on the street everyday...lol. You could even spend the money on a built 700R4 and cruise on the freeway at a reasonable RPM. I realy don't see a reason why your car needs to be on a trailor at all. You are not going fast enough to realy tax anything in the drivetrain so you don't have to worry about breaking an axle or anything like that. So why not put it back on the street?

Sorry it took so long to get back.

I still have pretty much everything to make my Z28 stock. I saved it in case I ever wanted to put it back in stock form. There are a few problems with putting the Z28 back on the street:

1. Spool: you mentioned this in your post. I agree, I could put it on the street and probably not have any problems. Where I would have problems is taking curves slow and wide. I'm an airhead when it comes to remembering things like that, I admit it.

2. 4800 stall converter: I have a mondo tranny cooler on the car now, but the converter is designed to be on the strip, and the heat of driving around town would be a problem.

3. Open Headers: As far as I know, no one makes a performance, emmissions legal exhaust for a '79 Z28. The stock setup would drop my horsepower from 492 to 360 (according to DD2000). This brings me to my next point.

4. Emissions in general: Although where I live we don't have sniffer testing (not yet, but Hillary's trying), we still have visual inpection. It's going to be hard to tell the guy doing the inspection "didn't you know, '79 Z28's came with 850 Holley Double pumpers and Victor Jr, Manifolds". I don't think that will go over real well.

The good news in all of this is I'm keeping both cars and getting rid of my truck for a newer one.

BTW, here's what's in my Z28 now:

"010" '76 350 truck block bored .030 over
383 Scat cast steel crank
Stock truck rods, beam polished and magnafluxed.
Keith Black Hypereutectic Flat top Pistons
Fluiddamper Balancer
Rotating assembly balanced by Jan-Cen automotive
Moroso oil control kit
Comp Cams 280S Solid cam (.507/.532 lift, 245/255 duration)
Carter HP fuel pump
Victor Jr. Manifold
Trick flow gen 1 Twisted wedge heads
Crane 1.5 Roller rockers
Holley 850 Double pumper
Homemade Air box
MSD 6AL
Hedman Hustler Headers
4800 Competition Transmissions converter
TH-350 rebuilt by Keene Transmissions
B&M Megashifter
Accel shift light
MSD two step
8.5 10 bolt rearend
4.10 gears
Moser axles
Strange full steel spool
TA performance rearend girdle
Centerline Auto Drag rims
28x10 Hoosier slicks
Cal-trac bars
Landrum Springs
6-point cage
March pulleys (didn't help performance any)

Here's what I took out:
front bumper
sway bars, front and rear
Hood, replaced by fiberglass copy w/stock scoop
rear seats, carpeted over where they used to be
emissions stuff (charcoal canister, etc)
power steering pump

your Z28 sounds alot like my current set up in my 78 Type LT. I have a 4 bolt "010" 350 block with main studs, Eagle 383 crank, Eagle ESP 5.7 rods, SRP 2 valvereleif flat top pistons, Somp Cams custom ground solid roller cam (258/269 @.050 630/630 lift), 1.6 roller rockers, Pro Action Iron Lightining 220 heads, Bow Tie intake, Holley 800 double pumper, custom nitrous plate :D , TH350 tranny with TCI 10" (3200) converter, 8.5 ten bolt rearend with 3.70 posi, 10 point cage, subframe connectors, 1 3/4 drag race headers, 3" exhaust into 3 chamber flowmasters. And this is a "street" car. taged, inspected, and insured. :D But with mine being a nitrous car I can use less gear and less converter which makes it much easier to drive on the street.

Did ya ever take it to a drag strip? What's it run?

A good thing about Texas, you can race almost year round.

im another guy with a '93 z28 and also an older carbed car.

my carb'd car: 78 olds cutlass
'72 olds 350 (rebuilt), edelbrock performer cam/intake
650 holley double pumper
2004r trans
3.73 gears (open diff)
i managed a few 9.0 passes at around 78mph in the 1/8.
at the VERY BEST i have gotten 18mpg out of it.

as for my '93, i have added around $2,000 in mods, and have managed the times in the sig.
7.90's n/a and it still got ~24mpg on my trip to the beach this past summer. on a cold morning, it starts right up, and i dont have to mess with a choke 2x a year.

believe me, computer programming is NOTHING compared to screwing with those stupid carbs. heck, im running mail order programming!
imo, the LT1 motors have lots of advantages. you dont see many sbc's running 11.5 - 12.0:1 compression on pump gas. it lets me run a 230/236 .544/.555" 112 cam and get 24mpg!
jeremy

Racer1283: I have not taken it to the track yet... I am redoing the fuel system. This is a new motor for this car so we will see how it goes when it is runing again.

Type LT: My guess... w/o nitrous... 12 teens @ 113/114 MPH.... with nitrous... who knows! Keep an eye on your axles. I ran my stock axles (with C-clip eliminators) for a year before I broke one. If you don't have C-clip eliminators, they might be a good investment. I hope you got some really good valve springs!

Jerm93Z228: I'm with ya pal, the problem is... when your used to an 11-second ride, 13.80's seem like you riding in an Ox cart! As far as your old car... (1.) get a posi unit, and (2.) Holley carbs are a pain. I've never had to adjust a carb as much as I do my double pumper. I run one because there's nothing else out there for my application (ya, I could use an adapter plate, but they look like hell) . If I could I'd go back to the Q-jet, I would. Another thing about carbs, that 600 edelbrock that I mentioned above was probably the most consistant carb I ever had!

yea, well thats what im saying, mod your LT1 car!
if your running 12 teens @113-114 with your racecar, just do what i did to my '93 to your LT1, and drive the thing everyday. it was good for a high 11 @ 116, but not with it being lowered. add a 100 shot of juice and your golden.
as for my older car, you wouldnt believe it, but that thing hooks! without a posi, i can net a consistant 2.0-2.1 60'. i couldnt hardly do that in my camaro (posi) when it was stock. lol
q-jets, after going through 8 of them, i gave up. i did a good bit of reading and did some q-jet 'rodding. but, i never really messed with the older ones, so im no expert. some ran pretty well at idle and normal driving, but i remember when i went to the holley i picked up 3 tenths and a couple mph.
jeremy

Racer1283: My car was built to run some high 5's in the 1/8. The reason for less gear and converter is because of the 10.5 tires. On motor it should an easy low 7 but the gearing and converter will hold it back for sure. I will be doing alot to the rearend as I get the money but for now it will have to stay as it is. I have had an axle break in a car before and luckaly I had a F*rd 9" in the car and of course they have bolt in axles and I got to drive the car home and even drive it around for another 3 weeks after that till I could find another axle to replace the one that broke...lol. So I know all aobut breaking those axles... I almost hit the wall when that one broke. I launched on the bottle and the car just went left. I have alot to upgrade on the car but I don't have alot of money so I have to upgrade as I can afford it. That is also why I don't own a new car (got ****ty credit and no money for a down payment) :( .

Jerm93Z28: I'm slowly moding my Firebird as time and money allow. BTW my firebird is the same purple as your Z28.

Type LT: I reread your post, make that mid-11's at 116-117. My Car usually runs high 7.5 in the 1/8, deep staged, so low 7's aren't out of the question. I run 29 or 28x10 Hoosiers, and they have alot of hook, so I think you'll be alright with 10.5 tires.